QUARKS ARRIVING - Comments and Reviews!

Use this section to discuss "standard" Baader/Coronado/ Lunt SolarView/ Daystar, etc… filters, cameras and scopes. No mods, just questions/ answers and reviews.
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Re: QUARKS ARRIVING!!!!!!

Post by sullij1 » Thu May 08, 2014 2:15 am

I must add that any concerns about the Quark power need are "somewhat" unfounded. One usually has a 12 volt power supply in the field for outreach and that's exactly what I used via the cigarette lighter connection with an I-phone dual 1.5 and 2 amp cigarette plug in charger. Plugged into the 2amp outlet to micro USB adapter and Quark was happy alllllllllll day long. NO PROBLEM.

So this power question IMHO is about nothing. She work fine!
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Re: QUARKS ARRIVING!!!!!!

Post by sullij1 » Thu May 08, 2014 3:21 am

Ok, this is a "VISUAL" simulation/estimation of the Quark chromsphere view using a crop from Marks full disc. I chose to leave my focus on the big prom the full day. I had a few return visitors to see if the prom was changing. So I guess they liked the view. The Quark chromo had no problem gathering in light for a deep red contrasty view similar to this. At times of good seeing it was extremely sharp. I could have tuned for a brighter image but I chose to leave it a bit dark. Remember this is about the FOV through the C102 F10 scope using a 32mm EP. This is an "estimation" based on last Saturdays outreach in San Diego's Balboa Park. Just wanted you have an idea of the FOV in the F10 102. It's tight!
marks sun visual.jpg
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Re: QUARKS ARRIVING!!!!!!

Post by sullij1 » Thu May 08, 2014 3:33 am

I also used the statagy of placing the PST full disc next to the 102 tuned to show the proms brightened and directed folks attention to the big prom. I then asked them to the view the big prom close up in the Quark. This evoked many OOOOOOh I see it! And Mommy I see the trees growing on the sun!, comments. :lol: :) Gad, I love the kids comments!
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Re: QUARKS ARRIVING!!!!!!

Post by sullij1 » Thu May 08, 2014 3:48 am

BTW, The background was darker and the prom details a bit better but I couldn't darken the background in Marks image anymore without losing the detail in the prom.
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Re: QUARKS ARRIVING!!!!!!

Post by marktownley » Thu May 08, 2014 5:57 am

Thanks Joe! If I get a quark looks like I will have to buy a new frac or two... Mrs Townley is going to kill me! :D
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Re: QUARKS ARRIVING!!!!!!

Post by swisswalter » Thu May 08, 2014 4:06 pm

marktownley wrote:Thanks Joe! If I get a quark looks like I will have to buy a new frac or two... Mrs Townley is going to kill me! :D
Hi Mark

it will not be that heavy, tell her first that other friends have 14 plus refractors, then tell her that you love her, then tell her that every refractor is good for a dozend pair of shoes and so on ;) . If you need our help, just book ZHR . you both are our guests at any time
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Re: QUARKS ARRIVING!!!!!!

Post by Solarhound » Thu May 08, 2014 5:46 pm

Hello solar gang , I am the lucky guy that left the recent Astrocats show with the only Quark that made it to the show and possibly the first one in Canada . I have had 1 opportunity to use it so far and used it with a short tube (400mm) 80 Orion refractor . The conditions were not great and I will need more time to work with this piece but I believe this is a promising start .
May 6 jj Q2.jpg
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May 6 jj Q5.jpg
May 6 jj Q5.jpg (451.22 KiB) Viewed 2717 times
May 6 jj Q6.jpg
May 6 jj Q6.jpg (393.57 KiB) Viewed 2717 times
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Re: QUARKS ARRIVING!!!!!!

Post by sullij1 » Thu May 08, 2014 6:59 pm

Thanks, What camera did you use? Is it a 1.8 format chip? 1/3, 1/8? When we know the chip size we will have an an excellent example of the FOV for that chip size at a F5 focal ratio.
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Re: QUARKS ARRIVING!!!!!!

Post by Solarhound » Fri May 09, 2014 4:01 am

The first image is with a DMK 31 - 1/3 chip but does not represent the field because I used a 0.5 focal reducer on the camera and the image is cropped . The second image was with a DMK 21 - 1/4 chip with the 0.5 reducer mounted to the camera . The third pic is same camera without reducer and represents the FOV on a 1/4" chip with this combination .

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Re: QUARKS ARRIVING!!!!!!

Post by sullij1 » Fri May 09, 2014 4:24 am

That's interesting! Was there any spherical aberration at the edge with the 0.5 reducer?

Was there any sweet spotting at the edge?
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Re: QUARKS ARRIVING!!!!!!

Post by Solarhound » Sat May 10, 2014 7:12 pm

Sorry for the delay but for some reason I could not access Solar Chat yesterday . These are 2 images from the same shoot , the first one is DMK 31 with 0.5 reducer and the second one is DMK 21 with 0.5 reducer , neither have been cropped . Please keep in mind that this was my first time using the Quark and there was quite a bit of heat rising off my driveway to add to the challenge . I will set up on the grass for my next opportunity . So far I am pleased with what I am seeing as far as even lighting and detail goes .
May 6 jj Q3.jpg

May 6 jj Q5.jpg
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Re: QUARKS ARRIVING!!!!!!

Post by marktownley » Sat May 10, 2014 7:49 pm

These work!
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Re: QUARKS ARRIVING!!!!!!

Post by Solarhound » Sat May 10, 2014 8:13 pm

Hey Mark , when you consider the price of the Quark and the Moonlight cost of the "Frac" is like an accessory !! Could be an easy sell for Mrs. Townley

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Re: QUARKS ARRIVING!!!!!!

Post by Carbon60 » Sat May 10, 2014 8:15 pm

Nice first images. Looking forward to seeing more.

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Re: QUARKS ARRIVING!!!!!!

Post by solar » Sat May 10, 2014 11:28 pm

We're are these things going to be in a couple of years.
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Re: QUARKS ARRIVING!!!!!!

Post by Montana » Sun May 11, 2014 10:21 am

A great start :hamster:

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Re: QUARKS ARRIVING!!!!!!

Post by sullij1 » Tue May 13, 2014 5:29 am

Hello all, here is a test shoot with a 3 scopes and a action plan. First the plan:

1. I am going to post a link in the equipment forum directing all Quark questions back to this thread. Why? Because if we need to get Sean back on here to answer questions for us, he doesn't have to find a dozen threads all over the forum. And we have all the Q and A in one spot.

2. Having all the feedback and examples in one area will help the folks at Daystar incorporate any changes that may be a result of our feedback.

3. Other folks having similar issues with their Quark will know right where to look to get help.

4. Post processed finished pics you are proud of to the main the main forum. Use this thread for examples of issues, different scope trials, suggestions to improve the product and answer questions all Quark owners may have or questions we need Sean/Daystar to answer.

NOTE TO ALL: The Quark is a long focal length device for close in. We wont see full discs until Daystar introduces the 2X telecentric. So forget about full disc. Keep the Lunts etc. that provide you with that nice full disc view. Mount the Quark next to it for the special features you want to zoom in on. Quark incorporates the 4.2X telecentric.

So now for the good the bad and the ugly:

I trailed 3 scopes,

a. A EDQ 65, F5 434mm/65mm aperture with Quark - FL 1360mm F20, 55mm front ERF cuz it's a petzval design and a UV/IR cut.
b. A Explore 102 APO, F7 714mm/102mm aperture with Quark - FL 2999mm F29.4 No ERF just UV/IR cut.
c. A modified Astrozap 127, F5 127mm/632mm with Quark - FL 2656mm F20 75mm Lunt ERF forward of reducer/flattener to maintain aperture and educe cost.

Method: I used Ted’s suggestion of no gamma and no gain, Exposure only. I used the 1.8 format Scorpion running full frame at about 15FPS. Because I was using Ted’s method for the first time I underexposed most of the images. Regardless they will highlight my points. Conditions were sunny and very windy so there wont be any jaw droppers.

All images show FOV at limb and special features to give the reviewer an idea of FOV and scale.

The camera will have to be rotated to a position that reduces Newton rings or a camera tilter added if you start having the Newton ring issue.

Small files were stacked in Registx6 with auto flat. Larger files had to be don in Auto stakkert with no auto flat.

Please everybody post full uncropped and unprocessed images, along with the processed here so we can identify sweet spotting, gradients etc. and come up with solutions.

First up; the ugly, the 65 EDQ. I under exposed the images but began to see an issue that carries through all and will have to be addressed. The EDQ showed some Newton rings and some weird gradients that should be able to done away with by flats or maybe a tilter. Here is the EDQ flat:
edqflat.jpg
edqflat.jpg (43.24 KiB) Viewed 2532 times
And the rest have a nice wide field but gradients ruing the images (along with my low gamma and bad processing). Also note the bright sweetspot in the corner. This artifact will plague all the images to some degree.
EDQ fov RAW.jpg
EDQfov1 processed.jpg
EDQfov1 processed.jpg (158.73 KiB) Viewed 2532 times
EDQ spot RAW.jpg
EDQ  spot1 processed.jpg
EDQ spot1 processed.jpg (190.68 KiB) Viewed 2532 times
Next up; The bad, the Explore 120, the same gradient and sweet spot in the corner. Same bad processing. Forgot the flat on this one but you can see the same gradients befor processing. I used a false flat to try and straighten this one out. This will be nice FOV when the gradients and sweet spot are gone. Needs to be said the gradients are not focuser droop as the Explore is on loan form Astrodan for this testing. He doesn’t skimp on the goodies so this scope has a high end Feather Touch focuser.
102 fov.jpg
102 fov.jpg (146.46 KiB) Viewed 2532 times
102 fov2 processed.jpg
102 fov2 processed.jpg (119.07 KiB) Viewed 2532 times
102 toprt raw.jpg
102 toprt raw.jpg (152.79 KiB) Viewed 2532 times
102 toprt1procesed.jpg
102 toprt1procesed.jpg (153.58 KiB) Viewed 2532 times
Finally; the good, The Astrozap mod. This was the best performer, similar but lighter gradients on the flat and the sweet spot was less noticeable but there. Flats in Registax6 cleaned this up nicely.

The flat:
flat 127.jpg
flat 127.jpg (56.17 KiB) Viewed 2532 times
The rest:
fov 127 raw.jpg
fov 127 raw.jpg (147.21 KiB) Viewed 2532 times
fov 127 processed.jpg
fov 127 processed.jpg (109.59 KiB) Viewed 2532 times
127 spot1raw.gif
127 spot1 processed.jpg
127 spot1 processed.jpg (184.82 KiB) Viewed 2532 times
Take Away:

1. Redo the images at proper exposure
2. Add the tilter to see if gradients and rings can be done away with
3. Put a flat black washer with a 20mm opening in front of the silverfish snout to see if reflections go away (see speculation below).
4. Try to keep files small for Registax6 autoflat

Questions:

1. In the raw images that Walter and others took, did you have the sweet spot or rings prior to processing and cropping?

Speculation and suggestions:

I think the sweet spot may be due to a reflection from the beveled/chamfered edge of the grayish silver snout on the Quark, just ahead of the internal ERF, reflecting sunlight to the chamfered edge and back to the chip. Perhaps this should have been flat black and not silverfish or chamfered. I will use a flat black washer to see if reflections go away on the next photo run.

The sweet spots only show up when I used only the UV/IR cut with no ERF. IR intrusion?

I also thing the sweet spot may come from uneven heating of the etalon but it did not show up so much in the 127 scope. Thoughts?

Comments or suggestion now welcomed.
Last edited by sullij1 on Fri May 16, 2014 12:07 am, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: QUARKS ARRIVING!!!!!!

Post by marktownley » Tue May 13, 2014 5:57 am

Interesting Joe! I will be following this :)
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Re: QUARKS ARRIVING!!!!!!

Post by Merlin66 » Tue May 13, 2014 6:55 am

Hmmm
Interesting but, for me, no "WOOOOO"
What was the ambient temperature and the setting of the filter temp (if known)?
Obviously if the UV-IR cut filter is doing it's job there should be NO IR leakage....
Need to record the model of Quark being evaluated - "Chromo" or "Prom"
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Re: QUARKS ARRIVING!!!!!!

Post by Merlin66 » Tue May 13, 2014 7:00 am

If you want to have this as the main "point of contact" re the Daystar Quark...then I'd recommend we relocate this thread to the "Commercial Solar Filters/Hardware" section - Stephen, Mark - what do you think?

(I'm still waiting on a reply from Daystar on the operating temperatures v's Australian ambients >40 deg C.)
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Re: QUARKS ARRIVING - Comments and Reviews!

Post by Valery » Tue May 13, 2014 7:19 am

My thoughts about the source(s) of the sweet spot/bands.

1. Any thin layer(s) with reflections between the boundaries which create this layer. Say, the cemented surfaces of the barlow lens.
I see similar sweet spots or sweet banding in my scope with a NPZ Barlow lens. And wee it even more distinct with TV 3x barlow.
And I don't see them with 1.4x glass path compensator and also when no any Balow is in the light pass.

2. The protective glass on the camera.

3. Interference filters (UV/IR for example).


So, the best is to use the QUARK as follow:

1. To use a QUARK without any ERF or D-ERF or UV/IR cut filters. Use it as is on a small telescope as DayStar suggests.
If you will still see the bands/spots, use a camera tilter and see where the reason of the bands/spots.

2. To use a full size ERF, not a D-ERF. Use a D-ERF only if this does not cause any additional sweet spots/sweet bands.
Both in front of a telescope.

3. Use and ERF or D-ERF inside a scope, but far from focal plane .


If a 1. will show no bands/spots then the problem in additional filter(s) inside the scope.

Remember, that all filters should be a bit tilted to escape of reflections/ghosts/bands.
The same is for filters inside a scope.
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Re: QUARKS ARRIVING!!!!!!

Post by Valery » Tue May 13, 2014 7:23 am

Merlin66 wrote:If you want to have this as the main "point of contact" re the Daystar Quark...then I'd recommend we relocate this thread to the "Commercial Solar Filters/Hardware" section - Stephen, Mark - what do you think?

(I'm still waiting on a reply from Daystar on the operating temperatures v's Australian ambients >40 deg C.)
Yes, IMHO, the best way is to place the thread at the "Commercial Solar Filters/Hardware". And make sure it will not sink there. Must be always up.
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Re: QUARKS ARRIVING - Comments and Reviews!

Post by Valery » Tue May 13, 2014 7:31 am

Read here about the very first light of QUARK. Rings issues with Prominence version.

http://solarchat.natca.net/viewtopic.php?f=4&t=11264
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Re: QUARKS ARRIVING - Comments and Reviews!

Post by marktownley » Tue May 13, 2014 8:50 am

Yes, I agree - duly moved to commercial section... I've marked it as a sticky to keep it at the top of the list...
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Re: QUARKS ARRIVING - Comments and Reviews!

Post by sullij1 » Tue May 13, 2014 4:04 pm

First, Mark, thanks for moving things appropriately.

Ken, the Quark was the chromosphere version. The temp setting was at the midpoint “tint” as prescribed by Daystar as being on-band. I don't know what temp change the “tints” move from or to. Daystar will have to clarify. Temp during my photo run was 78 or 80 degrees Fahrenheit so ~ 26 C.

Valery, thanks for the suggestions. I will give them a go.

At work so gotta run, back to you all a bit later.

Clear skies.

Joe
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