PGR announces new Blackflys!

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Bob Yoesle
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PGR announces new Blackflys!

Post by Bob Yoesle » Sun Nov 29, 2015 6:41 pm

PGR has just announced new GigE Blackflys featuring the 3.45 um 3.2 and 5.0 MP Sony Pregius IMX 264 and 265 CMOS sensors:

https://www.ptgrey.com/blackfly-gige-poe-cameras
https://www.ptgrey.com/sony-pregius-glo ... technology

Looks like I've found a replacement for my trusty 3.75 um 1.3 MP Chameleon.

Due out first quarter 2016...
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Re: PGR announces new Blackflys!

Post by marktownley » Sun Nov 29, 2015 6:50 pm

Interesting! I was contemplating a ~3um pixel camera to complement the 5.86um blackfly I have already. Maybe Rupert from Astrograph will be able to elaborate a bit more on them?
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Re: PGR announces new Blackflys!

Post by Derek Klepp » Mon Nov 30, 2015 11:28 am

Thanks Bob.

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Re: PGR announces new Blackflys!

Post by Astrograph » Thu Dec 03, 2015 10:05 am

Indeed these new chipsets are the 'low FPS' version of the 3.45µ IMX252 fitted to the Grasshopper. So the IMX265 has the same basic image performance but lower frame rate (35FPS vs 125FPS) for less money albeit in a lower specified camera.

PGR have not provided any pricing info as yet but based on the cost of the new Grasshopper with the 252, I am expecting us to be able to offer it for no more than the £389 we offer the current IMX249 GigE Blackfly for. In the Grasshopper the new chips make the cost slightly less compared to the IMX174

As with our other mono PGR cameras this price includes all the cables and software. The software including a fully licensed copy of Genika Astro.

PGR have not yet indicated if they will offer a USB3 version. If so it would be £20 less as we don't supply it with a PSU cable the GigE needs.

It should be remembered that PGR reduced the cost of all their cameras and we were able to drop the price of the Grasshopper by £200, so at £649, while still much more expensive than a Blackfly, Grasshoppers have become a bit of a bargain.

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Re: PGR announces new Blackflys!

Post by marktownley » Thu Dec 03, 2015 2:29 pm

The GigE 35fps 3.45µ chipset camera is something that is very interesting to me, especially to complement the larger pixel 5.86µ IMX249 camera. Allows greater flexibility in the varying seeing conditions.

I can hear some of you gasping that I prefer the 35fps version rather than the 125fps version, but, we all have a budget to work to and the camera suits that best, also, I genuinely don't think my laptop would support the higher fps, and, I don't want to shell out a load of £££ on a new lappy.

Give me a shout when this camera is due in Rupert, I will buy one.
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Re: PGR announces new Blackflys!

Post by marktownley » Sat Jan 23, 2016 1:49 pm

Any indication when we might see these arriving Rupert?
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Re: PGR announces new Blackflys!

Post by Astrograph » Mon Jan 25, 2016 9:42 am

Hi Mark

The two new Blackfly's (IMX264 / 265) are still only being quoted as 'Q1 2016' and only GigE at the moment and no prices as yet.

Price I expect to be the same as the IMX249's as the fast version of the chip (252) in the Grasshopper is basically the same as the 174.

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Re: PGR announces new Blackflys!

Post by marktownley » Mon Jan 25, 2016 9:42 pm

Guess i'm being too keen, there's plenty of time left in 'Q1 2016' yet :/
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Re: PGR announces new Blackflys!

Post by FRAZ » Mon Jan 25, 2016 11:20 pm

Rupert of Astrograph seems to be becoming the goto guy in the UK and beyond for cameras :)

I am very happy with his advice to date too and have bought cameras on his advice. I also hope I am not contravening any rules by backing such. He is not a friend of mine either by the way. (At least not yet :) )

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Re: PGR announces new Blackflys!

Post by Astrograph » Mon Jan 25, 2016 11:45 pm

:bow2 Most kind Fraz

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Re: PGR announces new Blackflys!

Post by marktownley » Thu Feb 11, 2016 10:01 am

I messaged PGR and they said the Chameleon 3 which uses the IMX265 chip is expected out at the end of this month...
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Re: PGR announces new Blackflys!

Post by Astrograph » Thu Feb 11, 2016 11:17 am

The stock order is already in!

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Re: PGR announces new Blackflys!

Post by marktownley » Thu Feb 11, 2016 11:39 am

Astrograph wrote:The stock order is already in!
Good man! :D
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Re: PGR announces new Blackflys!

Post by robert » Sun Mar 20, 2016 12:49 pm

Bob Yoesle wrote:PGR has just announced new GigE Blackflys featuring the 3.45 um 3.2 and 5.0 MP Sony Pregius IMX 264 and 265 CMOS sensors:

https://www.ptgrey.com/blackfly-gige-poe-cameras
https://www.ptgrey.com/sony-pregius-glo ... technology

Looks like I've found a replacement for my trusty 3.75 um 1.3 MP Chameleon.

Due out first quarter 2016...
Do you have a measure of the relative sensitivity of the Chameleon 2 and 3 chips? I have been hunting around and not found anything yet. I am trying the USB3 version IMX265 and it seems considerably less sensitive than the ICX445 (Chameleon 2).

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Last edited by robert on Sun Mar 20, 2016 7:09 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: PGR announces new Blackflys!

Post by Astrograph » Sun Mar 20, 2016 5:48 pm

I have not had our initial stock in to to test, but according to PGR's EMVA1288 Imaging Performance test info, the IMX265 is significantly better than the 445 in all regards. You can download the test info from PGRS website. In what regard does it seem less efficient?

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Re: PGR announces new Blackflys!

Post by robert » Sun Mar 20, 2016 6:00 pm

Thanks for the reply. It seemed to have a long exposure time and hence low frame rate during a quick cak fd test yesterday. Also long focus Ha shots were slow. I will get some measurements when the clouds go! It may be some other problem.

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Re: PGR announces new Blackflys!

Post by Astrograph » Sun Mar 20, 2016 6:19 pm

Out of curiosity, you say you are trying the new camera. Where did you get it (if you don't mind sharing)? We are the only PGR Astronomy specialist in the UK I know of, and the only one offering an astronomy based package for them. The scientific distributor does supply but, camera only without the relevant software we include and without any relevant support. Even people in Canada prefer to get cameras from us!

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Re: PGR announces new Blackflys!

Post by robert » Sun Mar 20, 2016 6:33 pm

I have downloaded the tests, thanks for pointing that out.
I just used the PGR website to buy the camera. I have posted a couple of images but am struggling with getting all the things working together and as usual clouds.

http://solarchat.natca.net/viewtopic.php?f=4&t=19051
http://solarchat.natca.net/viewtopic.php?f=4&t=19058
http://solarchat.natca.net/viewtopic.ph ... 15#p181115

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Re: PGR announces new Blackflys!

Post by robert » Thu Mar 31, 2016 3:30 pm

robert wrote:Thanks for the reply. It seemed to have a long exposure time and hence low frame rate during a quick cak fd test yesterday. Also long focus Ha shots were slow. I will get some measurements when the clouds go! It may be some other problem.
I have found the two comparable graphs for Chameleon 3 and 2 as suggested by Rupert/Astrograph on the Point Grey Research site. I have done some tests and found that the exposure time is just a bit shorter for the same image for the Chameleon 3 CMOS camera as in the data sheets. What was confusing the issue for me was the bus speed of my laptop. I am using a USB3 Express card to get a USB3 port for the Chameleon 3. The Chameleon 2 uses a built in USB2 port and gets 18fps as specified. It turns out that there are two standards for Express card, 1.0 and 2.0. The data rate is 2.5Gb/s for the 1.0 standard and 5Gb/s for the 2.0. Older laptops have Express card 1.0 so I think this is the limiting factor in my setup. However the Chameleon3 still manages 36 fps (not 55fps for full USB3) and is not noisy and a bit more sensitive than the Chameleon 2. It does have quite pronounced Newton's rings at high magnification but I think with tilt, drift and flats that will not be a problem soon.

Feeling pleased with it anyway! :D
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Re: PGR announces new Blackflys!

Post by Bob Yoesle » Thu Mar 31, 2016 9:38 pm

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Re: PGR announces new Blackflys!

Post by Astrograph » Fri Apr 01, 2016 12:57 am

.....and Chameleon IMX265 shipping from me from Monday (but limited stock) and Grasshopper IMX252 back in stock in about a week with Blackfly IMX249 and Grasshopper IMX174 too......

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Re: PGR announces new Blackflys!

Post by marktownley » Fri Apr 01, 2016 6:57 am

Woohoo :band2
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Re: PGR announces new Blackflys!

Post by GuillermoBarrancos » Thu Apr 07, 2016 11:42 am

Rupert,

Do you ship to Norway? and offer ex.VAT prices? (as I pay 25% Norwegian VAT on import, as Norway is not part of EU). As I cannot register on your site, as it only Accepts a UK address.

With little Luck I might be able to find some budget in May / June and the Mono Blackfly IMX249 might be an interesting camera for me, to replace my QHY5L-IIc.

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Re: PGR announces new Blackflys!

Post by Astrograph » Thu Apr 07, 2016 11:51 am

Hi

I ship everywhere! Sorry you cannot register. The problem is related to calculating shipping.

If shipping outside the EU then the sale is made ex VAT (makes the 249 £332.50). Shipping is insured via a courier (prob TNT or UPS to Norway). This seems to be normally about £30-35 to Scandinavian countries but a quote is given at the time.

Just place an order via email and I will send an e-invoice.

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Re: PGR announces new Blackflys!

Post by GuillermoBarrancos » Thu Apr 07, 2016 12:10 pm

Astrograph wrote:Hi

I ship everywhere! Sorry you cannot register. The problem is related to calculating shipping.

If shipping outside the EU then the sale is made ex VAT (makes the 249 £332.50). Shipping is insured via a courier (prob TNT or UPS to Norway). This seems to be normally about £30-35 to Scandinavian countries but a quote is given at the time.

Just place an order via email and I will send an e-invoice.
Ok great! Good to know. :) Then in the end it will all together around 5300 NOK for me for this camera. Not too bad. Will start saving up. :lol:

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