Lunt 60 SS/DS or Lunt 80 SS/DS?

Use this section to discuss "standard" Baader/Coronado/ Lunt SolarView/ Daystar, etc… filters, cameras and scopes. No mods, just questions/ answers and reviews.
User avatar
Robson87
The Sun?
The Sun?
Posts: 18
Joined: Wed Feb 24, 2016 10:49 pm
Location: Firenze, Italy

Lunt 60 SS/DS or Lunt 80 SS/DS?

Post by Robson87 » Thu Feb 25, 2016 12:23 am

Hello everyone, I'm a stellar (Sun and other stars) observer from Florence (Italy) and this is my first post here in this wonderful forum :)

I started with the super classic PST and one year ago I moved to a Lunt 60 SS / PT / FT / BF 1200.
With the latter the views are amazing!!!

Now I have the opportunity to do an upgrade toward a Lunt 80 SS / PT / Crayford / BF 1200 but I have some doubts:
In your opinion, considering an upgrade from the Lunt 60 SS / PT / FT / BF 1200, it would be a better choice the simple DS 60 unit, or upgrading to a Lunt 80 SS / PT / Crayford / BF 1200?
The 80 will have more resolution and a very even field, but it will also have a Crayford (I can change it for the FT, but it's not so cheap), a smaller BF compared to the aperture (even if not so smaller), and moreover a possible future double stacking unit, the DSII, which is not so loved as the DS 60 unit because of the great ghost image that it produces (now there is the new polarizer, but it will also decrease the light even more than the DSII alone).

PS: I will do only visual.

Thank you!!!

Roberto

User avatar
marktownley
Librarian
Librarian
Posts: 24543
Joined: Tue Oct 18, 2011 5:27 pm
Location: Brierley Hills, UK
Contact:

Re: Lunt 60 SS/DS or Lunt 80 SS/DS?

Post by marktownley » Thu Feb 25, 2016 11:56 am

For visual only double stack in as large an aperture as you can afford :)

Welcome to the forum!
Image
http://brierleyhillsolar.blogspot.co.uk/
Solar images, a collection of all the most up to date live solar data on the web, imaging & processing tutorials - please take a look!

User avatar
Robson87
The Sun?
The Sun?
Posts: 18
Joined: Wed Feb 24, 2016 10:49 pm
Location: Firenze, Italy

Re: Lunt 60 SS/DS or Lunt 80 SS/DS?

Post by Robson87 » Thu Feb 25, 2016 3:16 pm

Thank you! ;)

But do you think that 20mm more in aperture would beat all the other disadvantages?

Reading online it seems to me that the Lunt 80 SS has a more even field than the Lunt 60 SS, but that the Lunt 60 DS has a more even field than the Lunt 80 DS.
And, if I put also the polarizer on the 80, the Lunt 60 DS could be also brighter than the Lunt 80 DS.
Furthermore the 60 DS wouldn't have the ghost image which is present on the 80 DS...

User avatar
marktownley
Librarian
Librarian
Posts: 24543
Joined: Tue Oct 18, 2011 5:27 pm
Location: Brierley Hills, UK
Contact:

Re: Lunt 60 SS/DS or Lunt 80 SS/DS?

Post by marktownley » Thu Feb 25, 2016 6:56 pm

I'll pose another question then; do you prefer closeup high res views or full disks?
Image
http://brierleyhillsolar.blogspot.co.uk/
Solar images, a collection of all the most up to date live solar data on the web, imaging & processing tutorials - please take a look!

User avatar
Robson87
The Sun?
The Sun?
Posts: 18
Joined: Wed Feb 24, 2016 10:49 pm
Location: Firenze, Italy

Re: Lunt 60 SS/DS or Lunt 80 SS/DS?

Post by Robson87 » Thu Feb 25, 2016 7:57 pm

The answer "both" would be too easy :D
No, between those two I prefer full disk views. With the possibility to close up until physics allows.

User avatar
Montana
Way More Fun to Share It!!
Way More Fun to Share It!!
Posts: 19808
Joined: Mon Oct 17, 2011 5:25 pm
Location: Cheshire, UK

Re: Lunt 60 SS/DS or Lunt 80 SS/DS?

Post by Montana » Fri Feb 26, 2016 10:12 am

For visual full discs I would definitely say double stack. Honestly if you are only on single stack you haven't seen half the sun yet :) I couldn't believe what I had been missing. Once seen, you can never go back to single.

More aperture is only really necessary for imaging freaks :)

A very warm and sunny welcome :hamster:

Alexandra

User avatar
Montana
Way More Fun to Share It!!
Way More Fun to Share It!!
Posts: 19808
Joined: Mon Oct 17, 2011 5:25 pm
Location: Cheshire, UK

Re: Lunt 60 SS/DS or Lunt 80 SS/DS?

Post by Montana » Fri Feb 26, 2016 10:14 am

PS All double stacks create ghosts, you just push them out the way :)

Alexandra

Derek Klepp
Way More Fun to Share It!!
Way More Fun to Share It!!
Posts: 12660
Joined: Wed Oct 19, 2011 10:02 am

Re: Lunt 60 SS/DS or Lunt 80 SS/DS?

Post by Derek Klepp » Fri Feb 26, 2016 11:03 am

Yes I will agree to some extent but it is amazing what you can train your eye to see.I have various Solar apertures and the larger aperture is always best visually.

User avatar
Robson87
The Sun?
The Sun?
Posts: 18
Joined: Wed Feb 24, 2016 10:49 pm
Location: Firenze, Italy

Re: Lunt 60 SS/DS or Lunt 80 SS/DS?

Post by Robson87 » Fri Feb 26, 2016 3:50 pm

Thank you all!!!

I've already observed with a DS system and I know that that's the way to go. In particular I've observed with a Daystar Quark on my Lunt 60 and with a spectacular Lunt 100 DS.

My question is if at the end I could enjoy more the 60 DS or the 80 DS, since it's true that 80 mm is a little more aperture than 60 mm, but for the DS I think that all the other things are in favor of the 60 (while for the SS I think that they are all in favor ofthe 80).
Montana wrote:PS All double stacks create ghosts, you just push them out the way :)
Uhm uhm... how? :)
I'm not so experienced in DS, but I'm thinking that if it's easy to push the ghosts away everyone would have done that and nobody would complain about this so much (I've not heard complains about the ghosts of the Lunt 60 DS, but I've heard many about the 80 DS).

Even if in the last 3 months the problem has another name: clouds!

User avatar
Montana
Way More Fun to Share It!!
Way More Fun to Share It!!
Posts: 19808
Joined: Mon Oct 17, 2011 5:25 pm
Location: Cheshire, UK

Re: Lunt 60 SS/DS or Lunt 80 SS/DS?

Post by Montana » Sat Feb 27, 2016 7:17 pm

When you double stack two etalons there is always a ghost image of the Sun created by a reflection. It is on every single double stacked hydrogen alpha system. It is easy to tell when you look through the telescope as it is impossible to focus on the ghost image and if you adjust the etalon tuning the ghost whizzes out of the field of view whereas the real Sun would not do that. I spent half an hour stumped by this when I first got my Solarscope DS system until it dawned on me I wasn't looking at the real image of the Sun.

To set up the DS, first get the single stack etalon on band (darkest possible filaments). Then add the DS unit and adjust the tuning for the brightest image where the ghost image is not over the top of the real image but slightly to one side. Here is an image of my PST with the DS unit on where I forgot to shift the ghost off to the side and out of view, I was in haste
video0002 16-02-09 12-12-51 f colour.jpg
and here is an image with it shifted to the side and out of the way
video0003 16-02-10 10-18-20 f colour.jpg
There is only a problem if the etalons are not matched well and the best on band view is actually when the ghost is sat on top of the real image, this is very nearly the case in my PST system. In my Solarscope system I had to send back my single to be perfectly matched to my DS unit so they work exactly in the opposite direction, this means the glass is tilted in opposite directions and my ghost is miles away from the real image. This is why I was confused for 30 minutes with it because a real image was nowhere near anywhere so I was convinced I had the real Sun.

I hope this makes sense but the ghost is nothing to be afraid of, it just takes a little bit of understanding but the views are like night and day with a DS and it is the best thing ever for visual.

Alexandra

User avatar
Robson87
The Sun?
The Sun?
Posts: 18
Joined: Wed Feb 24, 2016 10:49 pm
Location: Firenze, Italy

Re: Lunt 60 SS/DS or Lunt 80 SS/DS?

Post by Robson87 » Sun Feb 28, 2016 3:20 pm

Thank you very much for your explication Alexandra! :)

So at the end of the story, upgrading now the Lunt 60 SS with the Lunt 80 SS (with the possibility to DS it in the future) could be a correct choice?

So the visual difference between a Lunt 60 DS and a Lunt 80 DS would be significant?

User avatar
Marcello
Im an EXPERT!
Im an EXPERT!
Posts: 376
Joined: Sat Dec 28, 2013 5:06 pm

Re: Lunt 60 SS/DS or Lunt 80 SS/DS?

Post by Marcello » Mon Feb 29, 2016 1:48 pm

Hi Roberto,

welcome happy to meet you here!

60 DS or 80? That's not an easy choice, you have pro and cons in either way. Ideally you should have the chance to try the two scope, then you will have the answer to your dilemma, but unfortunately we don't have often the chance to try instruments before the purchase :(

I have a Lunt 60 DS (50mm the DS actually) and a larger aperture system, a 125mm with a Quark. Visually they are both very good, but different: the DS view is really impressive, the disc is superb, as Alexandra told you it's something you will not get back once you try! But also high resolution views with large aperture is very pleasant, for example when you have nice proms.

My two cent: if you can go with 80 DS that's the best! But just between 80 SS and 60 DS, I would go with the 60 DS.

Hopefully we may meet soon, at the next solarparty or you come here near Parma, and I can let you try my equipment

cheers
Marcello
Play in the sunshine, we're gonna get over !!

https://www.flickr.com/photos/87718267@ ... 5844277683

User avatar
Robson87
The Sun?
The Sun?
Posts: 18
Joined: Wed Feb 24, 2016 10:49 pm
Location: Firenze, Italy

Re: Lunt 60 SS/DS or Lunt 80 SS/DS?

Post by Robson87 » Mon Feb 29, 2016 5:04 pm

Ciao Marcello!!!

Thank you for your answer, I really hope that we'll meet at the italian solarparty, even if from Florence it takes almost 4 hours by car!

I'm seriously considering the 80, for the moment SS and in the future DS.
My doubts are coming from the reviews of the DSII for the 80, which seems to be the worst double stack unit among all the Lunts.
What I don't know is if it is the worst but among super qualities (that would be the worst among supers, so a really good unit anyway), or if it seriously has some great problems more than the other DS units.

User avatar
Bill Edelen
Ohhhhhh My!
Ohhhhhh My!
Posts: 122
Joined: Mon Mar 03, 2014 6:12 pm
Location: NJ. US

Re: Lunt 60 SS/DS or Lunt 80 SS/DS?

Post by Bill Edelen » Tue Mar 01, 2016 12:41 am

Having both a Lunt DS 60/60 and a single 80 ...I like the added resolution the 80 gives me and tend to use it most of the time. I also had a DSII but it didn't work out for me so I sold it, with no regrets. I can also use the 60f to DS the 80 with excellent results.

User avatar
Robson87
The Sun?
The Sun?
Posts: 18
Joined: Wed Feb 24, 2016 10:49 pm
Location: Firenze, Italy

Re: Lunt 60 SS/DS or Lunt 80 SS/DS?

Post by Robson87 » Tue Mar 01, 2016 9:06 pm

Hi Bill!!

Why the DSII didn't work out for you?

Because that's my main fear: in the future I really would have a DS telescope, but is it sure that waiting and then spending money for the 80 DSII will worth it?

Sincerely I've heard so many discordant opinions on the 80 DSII (versus so many enthusiastic comments on the 60DS) that I'm quite confused.

User avatar
GUS
Way More Fun to Share It!!
Way More Fun to Share It!!
Posts: 1228
Joined: Thu May 08, 2014 12:03 pm
Location: Katoomba,NSW,Australia

Re: Lunt 60 SS/DS or Lunt 80 SS/DS?

Post by GUS » Wed Mar 02, 2016 6:05 am

Hi Roberto, I have the Lunt LS100 with the DSll and the LS60 with the DS60 unit. I had a chance to look through a DS Lunt 80 owned by a member of this forum, and the view was better than what I was expecting going by reviews and comments I came across while researching the LS100 DSll. There is some ghosting visible, and it can be a bit distracting at times, but you get used to it and if binoviewing(which I mostly do) the ghost is non existant. I tried a circular polarizer for mono viewing and this completely eliminated the ghost, the image was dimmer, but I could see some fine surface detail. I personally like the DSll unit, initially it was a let down compared to the view the DS60 produced, but after a month of use, I don't regret the purchase.

User avatar
Bill Edelen
Ohhhhhh My!
Ohhhhhh My!
Posts: 122
Joined: Mon Mar 03, 2014 6:12 pm
Location: NJ. US

Re: Lunt 60 SS/DS or Lunt 80 SS/DS?

Post by Bill Edelen » Thu Mar 03, 2016 12:13 am

Having had the Lunt DS 60/60 first, I was use to the Jet black background it gives and how easy it is to tune and it also removes much easier.Also didn't like the mechanics of two pressure tuners.
Lunts instructions say to tune the scope in single than add the DSII but I am shore no one does this except for the first time you add the DSII., as the install and removal is cumbersome compared to a front mounted filter.
Also found edge detail was best in single setup due to glow effect the DSII gives.
I have viewed through others LS80 scopes using binos and found the glow lessened but still prefer single for edge detail.
.

User avatar
Robson87
The Sun?
The Sun?
Posts: 18
Joined: Wed Feb 24, 2016 10:49 pm
Location: Firenze, Italy

Re: Lunt 60 SS/DS or Lunt 80 SS/DS?

Post by Robson87 » Thu Mar 03, 2016 6:55 pm

Uhm, it seems a hard choice, for exemple GUS' post pushes me toward the 80 with a future DSII (also because I would like binoviewing), but Bill's post pushes me toward I don't know if the 60 DS or the 80 SS.
I would like to have the possibility to see through a Lunt 80 DSII but I don't know anyone who owns it here in Italy.

Bill, in your opinion the 80 SS could be even better than the 60 DS?! Because I've seen through DS systems and they really give spectacular views compared to the equivalent SS.

And then, in double stacking the Lunt 60, is the 60DS unit so good or also the Solarmax 60 could be the same (with half of the really high price)?

Thank you again.

User avatar
Bill Edelen
Ohhhhhh My!
Ohhhhhh My!
Posts: 122
Joined: Mon Mar 03, 2014 6:12 pm
Location: NJ. US

Re: Lunt 60 SS/DS or Lunt 80 SS/DS?

Post by Bill Edelen » Fri Mar 04, 2016 11:46 am

If I could only keep one DS60/60 or SS80 it would be the SS80... Aperture rules....The LS80 is an amazing scope with better contrast and largest sweet spot I have ever seen in any other single stacked scope .

AS far as the DSII is concerned ,you are getting a full aperture 80mm double stack for very little $ compared to a front mounted full aperture filter.But as with everything in life you get what you pay for.The trade off is the background glow and complexity .

No comment on the coronado with it's center obstruction.

User avatar
Valery
Way More Fun to Share It!!
Way More Fun to Share It!!
Posts: 3055
Joined: Sun Nov 18, 2012 3:13 pm

Re: Lunt 60 SS/DS or Lunt 80 SS/DS?

Post by Valery » Sat Mar 05, 2016 5:14 am

Bill Edelen wrote:If I could only keep one DS60/60 or SS80 it would be the SS80... Aperture rules....The LS80 is an amazing scope with better contrast and largest sweet spot I have ever seen in any other single stacked scope .

No comment on the coronado with it's center obstruction.
Hi Bill,

Objective mounted (in front of objective) etalons have largest possible sweet spot. So, any 90mm and up refractor equipped with SM90 Coronado front mounted etalon will have significantly better uniformity of sun disk than Lunt 80THa with internally mounted etalon. Not say that 90mm aperture have greater resolution and allows to push magnification more than 80mm aperture.

If both LS80THa and SM90 have the same band wide, I would go with SM90. Second SM90 costs only a little more than DSII unit for LS80THa. But front mounted DS SM90 is far superior (sweet spot and uniformity wise) than LS80THa + DSII unit.

I can add that I never saw such a contrast SS telescope as my former Coronado SM90 + BF30 combo.


Valery.
"Solar H alpha activity is the most dynamic and compelling thing you can see in a telescope, so spend accordingly." (c) Bob Yoesle.

Largest full size 185 - 356mm Dielectric Energy Rejection Filters (D-ERF) by ARIES Instruments.

User avatar
GUS
Way More Fun to Share It!!
Way More Fun to Share It!!
Posts: 1228
Joined: Thu May 08, 2014 12:03 pm
Location: Katoomba,NSW,Australia

Re: Lunt 60 SS/DS or Lunt 80 SS/DS?

Post by GUS » Sat Mar 05, 2016 10:28 am

Hi Roberto, I have the Lunt LS60 DS filter and a Coronado SM60 DS filter, I usually use the SM as a triple stack on my LS0PT/ 60F. Both DS units are similar, the Lunt having better build quality, but both show the same amount of detail with the image slightly darker with the Coronado. I originally bought the Coronado as DS for the Lunt scope, made an adaptor using a second Lunt lens cap, worked fine.
Attachments
IMG_0241.JPG
IMG_0241.JPG (86.57 KiB) Viewed 2552 times

User avatar
Robson87
The Sun?
The Sun?
Posts: 18
Joined: Wed Feb 24, 2016 10:49 pm
Location: Firenze, Italy

Re: Lunt 60 SS/DS or Lunt 80 SS/DS?

Post by Robson87 » Sat Mar 05, 2016 1:20 pm

Ciao Valery! Yes, the Coronado SM90 front etalon would be just perfect, in that case the problem for the moment it's budget. Because the Lunt 80 would be a used one at an affordable price, but the SM90 it's very difficult to find in the used market.
I'm still undecided between the Lunt 80 and a DS unit for the Lunt 60.

Thank you very much GUS! It's a precious information because I could find a Coronado SM60 front etalon at a super lower price than the Lunt 60 front etalon, so if the amount of detail is almost the same I certainly will choice the Coronado if I'll decide to DS the Lunt 60.

Decision in progress...

User avatar
Robson87
The Sun?
The Sun?
Posts: 18
Joined: Wed Feb 24, 2016 10:49 pm
Location: Firenze, Italy

Re: Lunt 60 SS/DS or Lunt 80 SS/DS?

Post by Robson87 » Sat Mar 05, 2016 6:43 pm

OK I'm about to buy a second hand Solarmax 60 front etalon to DS my Lunt 60.
I can have it for a serious lower price than the Lunt 80, and also than the Lunt 60 DS front etalon, so for the moment I think I'll choose that solution, in the future when the budget will allow I'll think about a wider aperture.

Thanks to all of you, you are a mine of informations!!! ;)

And I still have questions, does anyone has tried the Coronado BF 15 VS Lunt BF 1200 on a Lunt solarscope?

Calavera
Ohhhhhh My!
Ohhhhhh My!
Posts: 84
Joined: Mon Mar 16, 2015 9:00 pm

Re: Lunt 60 SS/DS or Lunt 80 SS/DS?

Post by Calavera » Sat Mar 05, 2016 11:20 pm

Hi Roberto,

did you just saw this thread/post? http://solarchat.natca.net/viewtopic.ph ... 34#p177733

Here you find my favorite 60mm systems as I use a Lunt LS60 too. For me the doublestacking with the Solarmax60 filter works a tick better then with the original Lunt DS unit - the Solarmax is a "first-release" I don´t know if this matters...

With another Lunt DS unit I use the LS60 just like GUS as a triple system which gives great visual views!!!

Reg. you question - I got a 15mm blockfilter with my Solarmax60 - it works as good as the Lunt blocking filter but I modified my Lunt 1200er blocking filter a bit (another (blue) filter glas and tiltable blocking filter) which gives just brighter views when using it in double or triplestack - so I prefere it over the Coronado blockfilter.

cs
Chris
"Keep it square!"

Solar B
Ohhhhhh My!
Ohhhhhh My!
Posts: 139
Joined: Mon Jul 27, 2015 9:29 am
Location: Dunfermline , Scotland

Re: Lunt 60 SS/DS or Lunt 80 SS/DS?

Post by Solar B » Sun Mar 06, 2016 10:07 am

For me in Solar visually ... Bandwidth rules and not aperture ... Like everything it's
quality over quantity ... my preference would be toward pre Meade Coronado filters or even Solar-Scope if possible ... a Lunt 60 with an SM 60 should be great though.

Brian
" Gentlemen only ever use Refractors "

Post Reply

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 2 guests