Is a Quark worth the risk?

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Is a Quark worth the risk?

Post by bobmoss » Tue May 17, 2016 12:54 pm

Hi! I've just joined here as I am interested in getting into solar observing. I got some great white light shots of the Mercury transit using Baader Solar film and this has whetted my appetite for more!

So, I have a simple(!) question, is it worth the risk in buying a Daystar Quark?

I've read just about every post I can on this forum relating top the Quark and it seems like it's a lottery if you get a good Quark or not (I've seen lots of people complaining about theirs being out of band, having uneven illumination, not heating up correctly, Newton ring issues etc.) and these are frankly scaring me! I know that Daystar say it's the budget end and you shouldn't expect perfection, but £900 is a lot of money!

If I do go ahead, are there any recommended UK suppliers who will look after me and aren't going to ignore me if I get a "duff" Quark?

And lastly, what would be a good "shakedown" test if I got one to make sure it was all OK?

Thanks.

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Re: Is a Quark worth the risk?

Post by Montana » Wed May 18, 2016 7:07 am

One answer to that, Rupert at Astrograph http://astrograph.net/ . He tests all his Quarks before sending them out to you. The best bit is he is a solar astronomer and so knows everything you need to know.

As for the Quark, it may be good when it gets to you but that might not last long :( As you say, it is a lottery. Personally I think you would have far more enjoyment from a Lunt 60, then move on if you like solar viewing. For me. I think a Quark is a good extra (while it works).

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Re: Is a Quark worth the risk?

Post by grimble_cornet » Wed May 18, 2016 10:48 am

I would second Alexandra's recommendation for Rupert at Astrograph - great service and he sorted out my problems when I got a 'duff' one from an early product run.

Yes, it is still a bit of a lottery and yes, there does seem to be a slightly higher risk of a Quark going wrong at some point in the future than is the case with a traditional Ha scope (although DayStar have solved my problems rapidly at no cost to me, and dedicated Ha scopes also have their horror stories) :o

However, despite having two dedicated Ha scopes........ it is almost always the Quark I reach for when I set up for imaging.

It works very well on all of my refractors ranging from 60mm to 152mm so I can work in almost any seeing conditions.
By comparison, my 100mm dedicated Ha scope shows far less detail, has a much wider bandwidth (bad news), is very fussy in poor conditions (ie most of the time in the UK) and cost five times the price :cry:

On days when the face of the sun is fairly bland with no large spots or ARs (as it will more frequently as we move towards solar minimum) ......... the Quark on my cheapo (£230) Tal100 still shows amazing details - far more than would be visible in a dedicated Ha scope such as the Lunt60 :D

Will most solar observers/imagers agree with my assessment? Probably not.
Would a dedicated scope such as the Lunt60 be easier to use for a beginner, more reliable and less of a gamble? Probably.
Does this make me reconsider my appraisal of the Quark? Not a jot!

I bought the Quark as a 'toy' to play with while I waited nearly 6 months for my Lunt100 to arrive. My intention was to sell the Quark and use my 'dream scope' - but dreams rarely work out as we expect :roll:

In reality, I use the Quark for 90% of my Ha imaging and the Lunt 100 comes out occasionally in very good conditions when I use the Quark to 'double stack' it for even better surface detail :seesaw

You will have to lever the Quark from my grasp when I die and if it breaks........ I'll buy another one!
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Re: Is a Quark worth the risk?

Post by Montana » Wed May 18, 2016 11:26 am

:lol: :lol: I'm a bit like that with the Solarscope, however if it broke I don't think I could afford another :o

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Re: Is a Quark worth the risk?

Post by robert » Wed May 18, 2016 11:58 am

Nice report Mike!
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Re: Is a Quark worth the risk?

Post by solarchat » Wed May 18, 2016 1:35 pm

The quark is totally dependant on the scope you use it in and requires external power to work. You must plug it in to electricity. A Lunt dedicated scope only requires that you point it at the Sun, it is a complete, unpowered system.

I would also like to add, as always, Lunt Solar Systems is the only company on Earth selling solar equipment that has ever supported our nonprofit that makes this forum possible, if that means anything to you. We expanded the solar market to what it is today here on this forum with our fine and friendly users. Lunt recognizes that and financially supports us, Daystar does not.
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Re: Is a Quark worth the risk?

Post by longtech » Wed May 18, 2016 3:31 pm

By the time the Quark came on scene, I already owned two complete double stack solar scopes; Coronado SM60 II DS and Lunt LS152THa DS. Based on positive reviews I picked up the Quark as something fun to experiment with. Unfortunately I'm among those who received a poorly performing unit...and I really have tried everything I can think of to make it work.
While it's frustrating, it hasn't really impacted my solar imaging since I'm so happy with the big Lunt...I probably average 15+ hours a week photographing the sun and Lunt has been my main tool even in poor seeing...day after day...I point it at the sun and it delivers the same high quality view every time.

As Stephen mentions, Lunt supports our hobby as well as this forum. Additionally, Lunt has provided the best customer service I've received from any company in any industry. I've only had a couple of very minor issues and they always go above and beyond to rectify the situation immediately so I'm never impacted more than a day or two.
For the past year I have only used my large sensor camera (30x16mm) for solar imaging and the Lunt B3400 blocker covers the Estes real estate with ease.

I can't say enough about Lunt solar Systems!

But you are asking about the Quark...I wish I had a better performing unit...but even if I did the tiny blocking filter of the Quark will only cover small sensors...so the Lunt would be my daily work horse.

Good luck :-)

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Re: Is a Quark worth the risk?

Post by bobmoss » Thu May 19, 2016 2:20 pm

Montana wrote:One answer to that, Rupert at Astrograph http://astrograph.net/ . He tests all his Quarks before sending them out to you. The best bit is he is a solar astronomer and so knows everything you need to know.

As for the Quark, it may be good when it gets to you but that might not last long :( As you say, it is a lottery. Personally I think you would have far more enjoyment from a Lunt 60, then move on if you like solar viewing. For me. I think a Quark is a good extra (while it works).

Alexandra
Thanks Alexandra for your honest comments!.

I saw a lot of posts by Rupert when I was searching the forum so I think if I go down the Quark route I'll definitely get in touch with him.

The problem with the Lunt is the cost, especially as you really need to double stack. Although, I would consider a 2nd hand Lunt which would bring the price down whereas there is no way I would consider a 2nd hand Quark simply because of the issues people are experiencing.

I guess if I went down the Lunt path, the next question would be 50 or 60, single or double stacked...

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Re: Is a Quark worth the risk?

Post by bobmoss » Thu May 19, 2016 2:25 pm

grimble_cornet wrote:I would second Alexandra's recommendation for Rupert at Astrograph - great service and he sorted out my problems when I got a 'duff' one from an early product run.

Yes, it is still a bit of a lottery and yes, there does seem to be a slightly higher risk of a Quark going wrong at some point in the future than is the case with a traditional Ha scope (although DayStar have solved my problems rapidly at no cost to me, and dedicated Ha scopes also have their horror stories) :o

However, despite having two dedicated Ha scopes........ it is almost always the Quark I reach for when I set up for imaging.

It works very well on all of my refractors ranging from 60mm to 152mm so I can work in almost any seeing conditions.
By comparison, my 100mm dedicated Ha scope shows far less detail, has a much wider bandwidth (bad news), is very fussy in poor conditions (ie most of the time in the UK) and cost five times the price :cry:

On days when the face of the sun is fairly bland with no large spots or ARs (as it will more frequently as we move towards solar minimum) ......... the Quark on my cheapo (£230) Tal100 still shows amazing details - far more than would be visible in a dedicated Ha scope such as the Lunt60 :D

Will most solar observers/imagers agree with my assessment? Probably not.
Would a dedicated scope such as the Lunt60 be easier to use for a beginner, more reliable and less of a gamble? Probably.
Does this make me reconsider my appraisal of the Quark? Not a jot!

I bought the Quark as a 'toy' to play with while I waited nearly 6 months for my Lunt100 to arrive. My intention was to sell the Quark and use my 'dream scope' - but dreams rarely work out as we expect :roll:

In reality, I use the Quark for 90% of my Ha imaging and the Lunt 100 comes out occasionally in very good conditions when I use the Quark to 'double stack' it for even better surface detail :seesaw

You will have to lever the Quark from my grasp when I die and if it breaks........ I'll buy another one!
Thanks Mike.

You make some good points there - it's interesting to get the point of view from someone who loves their Quark!

I'm interested in your comments that the Quark seems to show more detail than even your Lunt 100! Is this really true? It would be nice to get an opinion from someone who has both.

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Re: Is a Quark worth the risk?

Post by bobmoss » Thu May 19, 2016 2:31 pm

solarchat wrote:The quark is totally dependant on the scope you use it in and requires external power to work. You must plug it in to electricity. A Lunt dedicated scope only requires that you point it at the Sun, it is a complete, unpowered system.

I would also like to add, as always, Lunt Solar Systems is the only company on Earth selling solar equipment that has ever supported our nonprofit that makes this forum possible, if that means anything to you. We expanded the solar market to what it is today here on this forum with our fine and friendly users. Lunt recognizes that and financially supports us, Daystar does not.
Thanks Stephen.

For me, one of the selling points of the Quark is that it can be used on different scopes as I already have a nice 80mm triplet I can use it on and have been thinking of getting a 100/120mm refractor anyway so it would make a nice addition to that. The power issue doesn't bother me either as my "Observing Area" in the garden has power points and a pier already setup. But, I could see that a dedicated solar scope would be more use if I wanted to take it on holiday with me (we often go up to the Isle of Skye which although misty a lot of the time, does get some sunshine...).

I take you point about the Lunt support - to be honest if I don't go for a Quark, Lunt is the only other solar scope on my shopping list as they seem to be on top of their game and by all accounts give good service.

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Re: Is a Quark worth the risk?

Post by bobmoss » Thu May 19, 2016 2:36 pm

longtech wrote:By the time the Quark came on scene, I already owned two complete double stack solar scopes; Coronado SM60 II DS and Lunt LS152THa DS. Based on positive reviews I picked up the Quark as something fun to experiment with. Unfortunately I'm among those who received a poorly performing unit...and I really have tried everything I can think of to make it work.
While it's frustrating, it hasn't really impacted my solar imaging since I'm so happy with the big Lunt...I probably average 15+ hours a week photographing the sun and Lunt has been my main tool even in poor seeing...day after day...I point it at the sun and it delivers the same high quality view every time.

As Stephen mentions, Lunt supports our hobby as well as this forum. Additionally, Lunt has provided the best customer service I've received from any company in any industry. I've only had a couple of very minor issues and they always go above and beyond to rectify the situation immediately so I'm never impacted more than a day or two.
For the past year I have only used my large sensor camera (30x16mm) for solar imaging and the Lunt B3400 blocker covers the Estes real estate with ease.

I can't say enough about Lunt solar Systems!

But you are asking about the Quark...I wish I had a better performing unit...but even if I did the tiny blocking filter of the Quark will only cover small sensors...so the Lunt would be my daily work horse.

Good luck :-)
Thanks, it good to hear such positive comments about Lunt and their support - it so often lacking these days.

It's a shame you've got a poorly performing Quark, this is what I want to avoid (I've already spent a lot on other astronomy gear so don't want to go wasting money).

What you say about the Quark only covering small sensors, is that a general "problem" (i.e. do you get less quality/detail using a small sensor) or is it just an issue for you as you have a large sensor camera? I'm interested as I currently have an ASI120MM which I could use with a Quark but would be willing to upgrade to a different camera if it would be better.

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Re: Is a Quark worth the risk?

Post by bhuston » Fri May 20, 2016 5:01 pm

I'm considering getting into Ha observing for the first time. Before coming across this discussion and some other questions about Daystar' QC on other websites, I had pretty much decided to get a Quark chromosphere to use on 2 refractors I already have, a 72mm f/6 ED doublet and a 102mm f/6.5 achromat. Now, I'm reconsidering. As a newbie, I do have a couple of questions that I hope some folks can comment on:

1. If I decide on a dedicated Ha scope, how big a difference is there between a Lunt 50 and a Lunt 60 for visual observing? (Money is a definite consideration here)

2. Much of the discussion here relates to imaging considerations. Since I'm purely a visual observer, would any different considerations apply?

Any guidance would be appreciated. Thanks.

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Re: Is a Quark worth the risk?

Post by longtech » Fri May 20, 2016 5:14 pm

Hi Bob,
The Quark seems to cover most of the cameras that are popular for solar like those from ZWO, Point Grey, Basler, etc

The small coverage area is only an issue if you plan to use a large sensor which seems to be more rare for solar compared to DSO. If you did use the Quark on a bigger sensor you would see a circular image at the center of the sensor with a black unexposed ring around it.

Hi bhuston,
I do not have any experience with the Lunt 50 or 60 so I can't comment other than to say that I always try to buy the biggest aperture I can afford...the increased light gathering will always be desirable

Good luck

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Re: Is a Quark worth the risk?

Post by Luke Stacy » Sat May 21, 2016 8:50 am

I personally would not buy a Quark again.

Unfortunately, I have had several issues with them, mostly flaws in the eyepiece view, such as bright dots, hair-like mark, huge straggly dark streak running through the middle (though I actually kept that one for imaging as a flat sorted it - it broke after about 11 months), very uneven illumination (one of a problem batch) and fuzzy views and loss of definition in proms over areas of the view.

Alexandra, sorry to hear about your Quark, I hope the marketing department sorts out a top replacement for an astrophotographer of the year, it would be good advertising for the Quark!
Last edited by Luke Stacy on Tue May 24, 2016 4:25 am, edited 2 times in total.

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Re: Is a Quark worth the risk?

Post by Montana » Sat May 21, 2016 3:03 pm

Mmmm... Luke I haven't heard from Daystar now for a week, not a wink out of them :(

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Re: Is a Quark worth the risk?

Post by marktownley » Sat May 21, 2016 3:58 pm

Montana wrote:Mmmm... Luke I haven't heard from Daystar now for a week, not a wink out of them :(

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Re: Is a Quark worth the risk?

Post by Luke Stacy » Sat May 21, 2016 5:10 pm

Montana wrote:Mmmm... Luke I haven't heard from Daystar now for a week, not a wink out of them :(

Alexandra
Have you had an initial reply from Daystar? It might be worth checking your spam folder if you haven't. When I had to return my faulty Quark, I was waiting to hear back from my retailer, SCS Astro, who I initially went through, and it turned out Daystar had emailed me, but it had gone to my spam folder.
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Re: Is a Quark worth the risk?

Post by Montana » Sat May 21, 2016 5:42 pm

Nope, nothing in junk :(

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Re: Is a Quark worth the risk?

Post by solarchat » Tue May 24, 2016 10:24 pm

Rupert at Astrograph does seeem to be a good source for these things. If Mark Townley recommends him, that’s good enough for me.

He offered to support the forum through an ad for fee setup but in order to maintain the advertiser free forum, I politely refused. He is the only astronomy business owner to ever offer this and it was appreciated.. :)
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Re: Is a Quark worth the risk?

Post by Astrograph » Wed May 25, 2016 10:39 am

Dear All,

I first must thank everyone for the kind words. It is appreciated and clearly the concept of 'service and support' goes down well with people.

Re Daystars service. Speaking as their main dealer in the UK, I am fully aware that some customers have experienced what is considered poor / bad service from them. I have had my moments with them too but deal with it. Equally there have been times when Daystar have bent over backwards to help us and customers. Overall it evens out. I can equally state that considering what little Lunt product I sell, more than its fair share has had trouble. From what I hear of Coronado, its best not to go there. Only Solarscope seems to be consistent in quality but at a price. Sadly I heard last week that Ken is selling up. Lets hope that whoever the new owner is they are not a corner cutter.

In terms of service generally, I am a bit amazed that when it comes to Quarks, owners take it upon themselves to contact Daystar and deal with the warranty through them. Are dealers worldwide so crap that they inspire no confidence? If a Quark I supply (or anything else) goes wrong, I expect to have to deal with it on the customers behalf. I don't expect them to pay shipping costs back to Daystar or chase them up for replies. That is my job. Sometimes it's a real pain and I am sending nightly emails to Daystar chasing them. Other times things go smoothly. Regardless my goal is that my customer is looked after. If I end up in a shouting match trying to get something fixed that is better than my customer having one. So please, all of you out there, go back to your dealer first. If they cannot be bothered to take an interest then they are crap. Use someone else.

Just for reference, Alexandra's problems (I supplied her Quark) are news to me so I will now deal with this. In the last 18-24 months, Alexandra's Quark will only be the second I have supplied that has had a fault develop. As products go, Quark reliability does not keep me awake at night.

Stephen, thanks for your words. You will get some support from me one way or another for CB! I will be in touch.

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Re: Is a Quark worth the risk?

Post by GuillermoBarrancos » Wed May 25, 2016 12:30 pm

You sum it up well Rupert and why in the end, since I already own a 120mm scope, I went for the Quark in the end and never regretted it, especially since the only other option at that price was either a PST or the new Lunt 50Pt, which didn't impress me due to their very low resolution. Not to mention that the Lunt 50Pt had it's own issues at the time as well. (6 month wait times, QA issues, etc)

Like I have been saying in other topics, you have to keep everything in perspective towards price!

People expecting "Research grade" quality from a 1000 bucks Quark are outright unrealistic to expect that kind of quality at such a low price.

The cheapest "Research grade" Ha filter starts at around 3200 bucks for just the filter (Solar Spektrum), with a current waiting list of 6 months. Then you have to buy the telecentric lens, which is another 400 bucks. So a total of 3600 bucks! That is almost 4 times the price of a Quark to put that into perspective.

The Solar Spektrum, just like similar other filters like from Daystar (Quantum / Ion) also require Electrical power to come on band!

When you want a dedicated solar Scope that is able to achieve similar High Resolution as these dedicated filters, you end up with a Lunt 152Pt, which set you back a whopping 7000 bucks! Not to mention that this scope is very sensitive to seeing conditions.
If you live under the jetstream like I do, I would think twice about buying this scope.
For the same price, you can buy a Research grade dedicated Ha filter and several achromatic Scopes of different apertures to accomodate different seeing conditions and resolutions and still have money to spare.

So back to the Quark. Is it worth the risk, without having to open up a second Mortgage? [hot place] yes! Especially if you buy it from a reputable dealer with good customer service (which applies to other brands like Lunt as well).

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Re: Is a Quark worth the risk?

Post by bobmoss » Wed May 25, 2016 2:28 pm

Thanks for all the replies and thanks to Rupert for the support. I've now ordered a Quark (from Rupert of course...) so am just waiting for delivery and clear skies!

Oh and expect more questions soon on how best to use the Quark!

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Re: Is a Quark worth the risk?

Post by GuillermoBarrancos » Wed May 25, 2016 2:59 pm

Congratulations! Good Choice! You going to love it.

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Re: Is a Quark worth the risk?

Post by grimble_cornet » Wed May 25, 2016 4:23 pm

I made my key points several posts back but would echo everything that Rupert and GuillermoBarrancos have said.
In terms of bang for buck, the Quark is amazing.
My astronomy club has recently bought one for outreach (from Rupert on my advice) and are amazed at what it shows on a disc which looks pretty much blank in the eyepiece of their PST.
I look forward to following your - hopefully trouble free - progress.
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Re: Is a Quark worth the risk?

Post by Luke Stacy » Wed May 25, 2016 5:47 pm

Best of luck with the Quark, Bob! Alexandra, good luck with the repair/replacement Quark!

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