New camera - any thoughts

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mattwastell
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New camera - any thoughts

Post by mattwastell » Tue May 24, 2016 10:11 am

Hi all
You may know I love imaging full discs through my LS60 & DMK51.
I also have a LS80 that I use for visual. If I use the DMK51 through it I just get a full disc but there is no room for prom action. Not a real issue but I also want a new toy - you know how it is!
Any suggestions for a camera that will provide a wider field of view with the LS80? Any other things I need to know about your recommendation?
Thanks in advance.
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Re: New camera - any thoughts

Post by solarchat » Tue May 24, 2016 10:36 am

Matt,

I would suggest the Antares .5x focal reducer. Once you leave the DMK/ZWO range of 8 bit camera chip sizes the price jumps tremendously into the PGR Grasshopper range.

You can also find these .63x focal reducers that used to be used on binoviewers a lot if you look around. I had one that I loved but gave it away to someone.
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Re: New camera - any thoughts

Post by Derek Klepp » Tue May 24, 2016 10:38 am

Matt I have a ZWO 174mono if you want to test it before purchasing another camera . I just don,t use it at the moment.

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Re: New camera - any thoughts

Post by mattwastell » Tue May 24, 2016 10:51 am

Thanks Stephen - I have used a FR in the past & found it challenging - I should revisit.
Price is always an issue but should not be limiting as I get very good use of my equipment.
solarchat wrote:Matt,

I would suggest the Antares .5x focal reducer. Once you leave the DMK/ZWO range of 8 bit camera chip sizes the price jumps tremendously into the PGR Grasshopper range.

You can also find these .63x focal reducers that used to be used on binoviewers a lot if you look around. I had one that I loved but gave it away to someone.
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Re: New camera - any thoughts

Post by mattwastell » Tue May 24, 2016 10:59 am

Thanks Derek - that is a very generous offer!!!!
I struggle with all the tech stuff - the DMK51 is 1600 x 1200 pixels - is that frame size or is that a function of the chip size, 1/1.8"
The ZWO (I have just done some homework) is 1936 x 1216 pixels with a 1/1.2" chip - a bigger chip?
Have I got this right?
Derek Klepp wrote:Matt I have a ZWO 174mono if you want to test it before purchasing another camera . I just don,t use it at the moment.
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Re: New camera - any thoughts

Post by rxdeath » Tue May 24, 2016 5:51 pm

chip sizes were so confusing me for a while as well. but this chart makes sense

Image

you can see the format size next to some of the smaller sizes 1" 1/1.8" and that ratio is best left explained to the experts, but you get a certain physical chip size based off of that number you see.


now, how they fill up that area with pixels differs because pixel size differs. the scope of that conversation is again over my head (more,less,what works when, etc), but those 2 different things work together to give you your resolution and scope of view is (i think) the accurate way to say it

the 174 is a monster, i really enjoy using it on both a lunt60 and a 152. i would say that i would also have a 120 now that i've used both, just because you get higher native magnification, but it works really well. full disc should be no problem with an 80, but you might end up doing a 2 pane anyway as i sometimes do just because of unevenness across the disc

another awesome tool for people still understanding chip sizes and it's result in various scopes, this thing is a lifesaver:

http://www.12dstring.me.uk/fovcalc.php

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Re: New camera - any thoughts

Post by Derek Klepp » Wed May 25, 2016 8:26 am

Let me know how you go Matt I'll have a look through the cupboard I've put it somewhere.

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Re: New camera - any thoughts

Post by mattwastell » Wed May 25, 2016 8:40 am

I would love a trial run Derek - I will send a PM via Ice.

Derek Klepp wrote:Let me know how you go Matt I'll have a look through the cupboard I've put it somewhere.
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Re: New camera - any thoughts

Post by mattwastell » Wed May 25, 2016 8:41 am

Thanks for the insight!
rxdeath wrote:chip sizes were so confusing me for a while as well. but this chart makes sense

Image

you can see the format size next to some of the smaller sizes 1" 1/1.8" and that ratio is best left explained to the experts, but you get a certain physical chip size based off of that number you see.


now, how they fill up that area with pixels differs because pixel size differs. the scope of that conversation is again over my head (more,less,what works when, etc), but those 2 different things work together to give you your resolution and scope of view is (i think) the accurate way to say it

the 174 is a monster, i really enjoy using it on both a lunt60 and a 152. i would say that i would also have a 120 now that i've used both, just because you get higher native magnification, but it works really well. full disc should be no problem with an 80, but you might end up doing a 2 pane anyway as i sometimes do just because of unevenness across the disc

another awesome tool for people still understanding chip sizes and it's result in various scopes, this thing is a lifesaver:

http://www.12dstring.me.uk/fovcalc.php
Matt Wastell



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http://www.pbase.com/mattwastell

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Re: New camera - any thoughts

Post by Astrograph » Wed May 25, 2016 10:10 am

I would advise three things;

1 - While a nice big chip, the IMX174 is a 'fast' chip and as such only found in more expensive cameras. The PGR Grasshopper being by far the best. However its little brother the IMX249 is exactly the same size chip, with identical performance except for speed. It is plenty fast enough for solar and is nearly half the cost of the Grasshopper. We supply all mono PGR cameras with Genika capture software as standard which allows integration with Airylabs Solar Scintillation Monitor to auto capture when the seeing is optimum.

2 - From a sampling point of view, you are far better off with a smaller pixel camera. The IMX174/249's 5.86µm pixel is a bit large for 60-80mm scopes, even heavily barlowed it undersamples. A far better match are the new IMX252 or IMX265 chips which have 3.45µm pixels. As with the other sensor these two sensors are the same but one is faster. These chips are also big for a small pixel chip being 1/1.8". The 252 is used in the PGR Grasshopper and can manage up to 125fps, while the 265 is used in the Chameleon. The 265 can get up to 55fps at max ROI. The striking thing about these new small pixel chipsets is the lack of noise. PGR have always been miles ahead of the competion when it comes to noise and this is really obvious with the new cameras.

Prices ex VAT in the UK are £632.50 for the Grasshopper IMX252 and £357.50 for the Chameleon. Both are USB3, both come with USB3 cables and Genika (which would cost you 90€ normally)

3 - If you want to see easily how much of the Sun you can capture with a given scope / camera combination download CCD Calculator from newastro.com. You can enter in the kit details and then see the FOV overlaid on an image. A Lunt 80 with a 252 or 265 chip gives you a perfect full disc.

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