Advice requested on Quantum filter purchase

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Re: Advice requested on Quantum filter purchase

Post by Ljungmann » Mon Nov 09, 2020 4:44 pm

Bob, I did pay 50 dollars to to get a test sheet. We did The same with the two 0.5A University filters. I think just like top quality Apos and mirrors you need to have some numbers to look at. If the SM90ii is on band I will not be happy at all. Rainers filter sheet with Freds shows that my Quantum 0.6 SE filter is much more on-band FWHM that The PE filters. But maybe its much more difficult to make a 0.4A or 0.3A filter “flat”.



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Re: Advice requested on Quantum filter purchase

Post by rsfoto » Mon Nov 09, 2020 4:45 pm

Hi,

I see one problem and that is the prices you can get nowadays the H-alpha filters.

When I bought my stuff I paid around US $ 8,000.00 for two SM60 filters and one BF 30 and the people working for Coronado were really committed to their products ... Custom matching of 2 filters for best stacking were normal ... Now it is easier to win the Lottery ...OK, a bit exaggerated from my side

Look here for the price of the same filters nowadays

https://optcorp.com/collections/coronad ... ter-w-bf15

US $ 1,599.00 and that by two would be US $ 3,200.00 for which I paid in 2008 around US $ 6,500.00 (BF30 cost those days US $ 1,500.00)

Can they still make the same quality for 50% of the price ? I dare to say no and they do not care. Watching the Sun has become so popular that they do not need to care about quality.

Rookies buy a filter, look through, are amazed with what they see and then in the same way as our printed Photos from the Birthday, Wedding or Vacations in Gran Canaria they are buried in the drawer and never ever again see the Sun Light ...

As always just IMHO ...


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Re: Advice requested on Quantum filter purchase

Post by rsfoto » Mon Nov 09, 2020 4:54 pm

Ljungmann wrote:
Mon Nov 09, 2020 4:44 pm
Bob, I did pay 50 dollars to to get a test sheet. We did The same with the two 0.5A University filters. I think just like top quality Apos and mirrors you need to have some numbers to look at. If the SM90ii is on band I will not be happy at all. Rainers filter sheet with Freds shows that my Quantum 0.6 SE filter is much more on-band FWHM that The PE filters. But maybe its much more difficult to make a 0.4A or 0.3A filter “flat”.
Hi,

Interesting. The QUANTUM SE 0.6Å filter has a price of US $ 5,520.00 and you had to pay US $ 50.00 for getting a test sheet ?

They can not even afford to provide it together with the filter ? less then 1% ... to be exact 0.91% :lol:

I have noticed that we Amateurs are far too much acquiescent with our providers. We send them loads of money and still defend ...

:roll: :roll: :roll:


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Re: Advice requested on Quantum filter purchase

Post by Ljungmann » Mon Nov 09, 2020 5:13 pm

Rainer, it was a upgrade from an ATM filter and they dont do tests for free and you will not get a SE filter test with a new filter. You have to know how you read the numbers when its not a PE filter. The SE filters can be anywhere from nearly PE to The minimum SE quality. It means that FWHM and spectral uniformity can vary.



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Re: Advice requested on Quantum filter purchase

Post by rsfoto » Mon Nov 09, 2020 5:42 pm

... and they don't do tests for free ...
You made my day ... Thanks

OK, I got it, but good customer service and customer satisfaction are based on information about the product you get from the producer. Especially in this price regions of thousands of Dollars or even tens of thousands ...

I read something in one of your posts mentioning University ... even more a reason to provide you = University with good info as there are hundreds of potentials customers there ;)

OK, and I will stop here now, makes no sense to keep discussing this.

I was very excited in getting a PE filter and I got trash ... customer service was under par ... they cheated on me and I will never forget it ... DayStar is History for me ...

Rainer


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Re: Advice requested on Quantum filter purchase

Post by rsfoto » Mon Nov 09, 2020 5:53 pm

Hi,

One last message in this regard and a side not ...

Fred Bruenjes from DayStar saw my images with my ridiculous double stacked original Coronado SM 60 + BF30 filters and judged them to be somewhere at 0.3Å to 0.4Å and afterwards I bought the QUANTUM PE 0.4Å.

So not even my images where a reason for DayStar to really check what they would deliver me ... sad sad sad

and now bye bye


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Re: Advice requested on Quantum filter purchase

Post by Ljungmann » Mon Nov 09, 2020 5:55 pm

Rainer I will try to stop too. But in the old days when it was Del Woods who was the owner, you will not get a test sheet. I dont think he did test them that way. It was more of an artist working with these delikate mica etalons. You have to trust that he did a good job even it took years to get a filter. For me is SolarSpectrum an evolution on the shoulders of Del and I do trust that the company has an “artist” way of making the very best filters out there.



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Re: Advice requested on Quantum filter purchase

Post by rsfoto » Mon Nov 09, 2020 5:59 pm

Ljungmann wrote:
Mon Nov 09, 2020 5:55 pm
Rainer I will try to stop too. But in the old days when it was Del Woods who was the owner, you will not get a test sheet. I dont think he did test them that way. It was more of an artist working with these delikate mica etalons. You have to trust that he did a good job even it took years to get a filter. For me is SolarSpectrum an evolution on the shoulders of Del and I do trust that the company has an “artist” way of making the very best filters out there.
We are not talking about the old days, we are talking about a year and a half ago, maximum two years ...

We all know the " Old Days " were better ... :shock:


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Re: Advice requested on Quantum filter purchase

Post by torsinadoc » Tue Nov 10, 2020 2:24 pm

My "new" quantum PE (.3 etalon, blocker and trimmer) will arrive today. I hope to test it later this week. They didnt have a copy of the test report to send me. I guess I needed to ask them prior to shipping it back

They did warn me when I shipped it for service, they were very backed up with work.


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Re: Advice requested on Quantum filter purchase

Post by Highbury Mark » Wed Nov 11, 2020 3:55 am

Well - this thread has certainly cleared a few cobwebs. Very refreshing. The variability in solar etalons currently being made is too great. All it does is allow prices to come down over time, when what true enthusiasts want is some degree of assurance that they can buy a filter matching the advertised bandwidth (and as Bob says finesse). And I suspect most of us would be happy to pay more for peace of mind. Despite the challenges of making perfect filters - “more of an art than a science” it has been described - it’s simply not good enough to allow substandard products to enter the marketplace. Yet - as the previous post makes clear - they are busier than ever.


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Re: Advice requested on Quantum filter purchase

Post by rsfoto » Wed Nov 11, 2020 4:10 pm

Highbury Mark wrote:
Wed Nov 11, 2020 3:55 am
Well - this thread has certainly cleared a few cobwebs. Very refreshing. The variability in solar etalons currently being made is too great. All it does is allow prices to come down over time, when what true enthusiasts want is some degree of assurance that they can buy a filter matching the advertised bandwidth (and as Bob says finesse). And I suspect most of us would be happy to pay more for peace of mind. Despite the challenges of making perfect filters - “more of an art than a science” it has been described - it’s simply not good enough to allow substandard products to enter the marketplace. Yet - as the previous post makes clear - they are busier than ever.
Hi Mark,

You summarized it very well and especially this ...
... when what true enthusiasts want is some degree of assurance that they can buy a filter matching the advertised bandwidth (and as Bob says finesse). And I suspect most of us would be happy to pay more for peace of mind.
I could have ordered a QUANTUM SE 0.4Å (for half the money) but no, I wanted the best in 0.4Å and therefor I ordered a PE ¿ and what did I get ? Neither a " Piece of Art " and not even " Peace of mind " ...

:?

OK, " Schwamm drüber " :lol: it is German


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Re: Advice requested on Quantum filter purchase

Post by Ljungmann » Wed Nov 11, 2020 8:47 pm

In the rear mounted etalon world I will always give the advice to buy the normal SE filters or the same from SolarSpectrum. So many other things can interfere like your telescope, temperatures, telecentric lenses, reducers, eyepieces, your own eyes astigmatism and cameras etc. that the SE type works pretty good - and it is cheaper. If you really do your homework one company do make better “normal” filters.



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Re: Advice requested on Quantum filter purchase

Post by torsinadoc » Sun Nov 22, 2020 10:33 pm

I received my repaired Quantum PE. I returned a .38 and received a .32. The results are very disappointing. I talked with Daystar and they are going to take it back and evaluate it.

These images were taken from a 100/F11 refractor F44 at the Quantum.

The first set of images are taken 6 minutes apart (after stabilization) with Baader D ERF and UVIR filter. You can see the image is not uniform at 6 minutes and continues to worsen the longer the duration
Screen Shot 2020-11-22 at 5.31.09 PM.png
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The second set of images are taken without the D ERF but UVIR and there is a major difference. Im not sure why the DERF makes such a dramatic difference on a 4" refractor?
Screen Shot 2020-11-22 at 5.32.14 PM.png
Screen Shot 2020-11-22 at 5.32.14 PM.png (243.58 KiB) Viewed 694 times


My prior filter was very uniform and stable. I used it for 40-60 m animations without variation. I am sending it back for the third time in 1 year. I am including the same set up with my front mounted Lunt 100 etalon (nearly impossible to tune on this long refractor)


Screen Shot 2020-11-22 at 4.24.00 PM.png
Screen Shot 2020-11-22 at 4.24.00 PM.png (193.75 KiB) Viewed 704 times


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Re: Advice requested on Quantum filter purchase

Post by Bob Yoesle » Mon Nov 23, 2020 2:54 am

Hi Alan,

Looks to me like you have two issues:

1. A DERF keeps the filter cooler from the start. Your first image is closest to on band where the filter was nearer to ambient temp. As the filter heats up more, it is shifted further into the red wing and goes off band. The second set of images without the DERF gives the etalon more heat from the beginning (no IR blocking), and it starts shifted off band in the red wing and shifts further to the red as it continues to increase in temperature.

2. The filter has significant contrast non-uniformity, and to me would not come anywhere near what a PE graded filter should - which would have almost non-detectable contrast variation. It should require no flat to give very good contrast uniformity - just like the front LS100 etalon doesn't require a flat. The "PE" etalon you have actually looks like your garden variety Quark filter in this regard.


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Re: Advice requested on Quantum filter purchase

Post by torsinadoc » Mon Nov 23, 2020 10:04 am

My old unit didn’t exhibit the red wing shift with long surface animations (same scope no DERF). This etalon has a lower temperature setting (125F vs 153F). Any thoughts on why this unit appears to be more sensitive to external heating? I hope they test it while observing the sun.


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Re: Advice requested on Quantum filter purchase

Post by Ljungmann » Wed Nov 25, 2020 4:53 pm

Hi Alan!
Hmm - back to Daystar.
You need to get a test rapport for free, its a PE filter.
My filters works at 108F and 110F. Your filter is indeed a very hot one.
Looks like your Quantum house can't hold the temperature and what you see can be a bad etalon or that the filter has uneven temperatures across the stack. I have seen a very low contrast 0.4SE filter and it was not at all a 0.4SE filter. My 0.6SE was/is way way better.
The other problem can be a low transmission etalon. You will get fine numbers in the lab, but it will not qualify under the Sun.
Visually your filter should blow you out in the water. An active filament would be nearly black and the penumbra hard to see.
Good luck!



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Re: Advice requested on Quantum filter purchase

Post by rsfoto » Wed Nov 25, 2020 5:09 pm

Ljungmann wrote:
Wed Nov 25, 2020 4:53 pm
Hi Alan!
Hmm - back to Daystar.
You need to get a test rapport for free, its a PE filter.
My filters works at 108F and 110F. Your filter is indeed a very hot one.
Looks like your Quantum house can't hold the temperature and what you see can be a bad etalon or that the filter has uneven temperatures across the stack. I have seen a very low contrast 0.4SE filter and it was not at all a 0.4SE filter. My 0.6SE was/is way way better.
The other problem can be a low transmission etalon. You will get fine numbers in the lab, but it will not qualify under the Sun.
Visually your filter should blow you out in the water. An active filament would be nearly black and the penumbra hard to see.
Good luck!
So spending loads of Dollars with DayStar is a matter of Luck ...

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Re: Advice requested on Quantum filter purchase

Post by torsinadoc » Thu Nov 26, 2020 12:32 am

I’ll post a follow up when I get their report.


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Re: Advice requested on Quantum filter purchase

Post by christian viladrich » Sat Nov 28, 2020 3:32 pm

I would agree with Bob. Your PE is not up to the spec.

BTW, it takes some time for the etalon to reach balance temperature. My PE 0.6 has a reference temperature of 58.3°C (137 F). It takes 15 min to go from 20°C to 55°C, and another 10 min to stabilize to 58°.
Noteworthy, the SolarSpectrum (I have a RG 0.3 A) has an active cooling (which is not the case on the DayStar). So it is faster to cool down (for example when removing the ERF).


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Re: Advice requested on Quantum filter purchase

Post by LeoD » Sun Nov 29, 2020 3:01 pm

I wonder though if Solar Spectrum has no such issues?
Christian, do you have the selected one?
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Re: Advice requested on Quantum filter purchase

Post by george9 » Wed Dec 02, 2020 3:01 am

I like my Solar Spectrum RG32 0.3A. Very even, very bright. Perhaps a little wide, but I usually double stack it anyway. The temperature regulation works well.

George



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Re: Advice requested on Quantum filter purchase

Post by Ljungmann » Wed Dec 02, 2020 8:23 am

Leo, I have the small ASO 1 0.3A filter. Its very even and bright in my 8" Triband SCT. Visually, active filaments are pure black streaks and the contrast are amazing. The TEC controller works fine. No issues. I do have a great Quantum 0.6A - its with an old Del Woods etalon.



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Re: Advice requested on Quantum filter purchase

Post by christian viladrich » Wed Dec 02, 2020 10:30 am

LeoD wrote:
Sun Nov 29, 2020 3:01 pm
I wonder though if Solar Spectrum has no such issues?
Christian, do you have the selected one?
regards
Leo
Mine is a standard RG32. Still, RG filters are selected by Solar Spectrum for their uniformity.
Still, in real life you don't really need a 32 mm aperture, so the smaller ASO filters are probably a better choice.


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Re: Advice requested on Quantum filter purchase

Post by LeoD » Wed Dec 02, 2020 8:55 pm

thank you all for your meaningful feedback, although I didn't expect to change the subject of the thread to Solar Spectrum :)
but it looks more promising vs Quantum
Quality control and real lifetime are essential for me, cause being outside of the US, any factory service means customs and transportation troubles
Leo



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Re: Advice requested on Quantum filter purchase

Post by christian viladrich » Sun Dec 06, 2020 3:50 pm

I chanced upon this very detailed measurement of the performance of a DayStar 0.3 A. You have to download the paper to have a look at it.

https://www.researchgate.net/figure/FP- ... _290297024

https://www.researchgate.net/publicatio ... N/download


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