SM2 to SM3 stacking question answered

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SM2 to SM3 stacking question answered

Post by Grakrob778 »

Hello,

I bought a 90mm SM3 SS scope earlier this year. I bought a SM2 90mm etalon this week. The SM2 etalon threads into the SM3 etalon without an adapter. Also the SM2 etalon threads directly into the scope for tuning before double stacking. Hope this helps. Have a great day. Graham
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Re: SM2 to SM3 stacking question answered

Post by DeepSolar64 »

That's great that they are compatible, they should be. Do they sell the stacking etalons separately for the SMIII yet? I don't think I have ever seen them listed separately. If they don't then one using a SMII etalon still has the option to upgrade to DS later if he/she wishes after buying a SS scope. It seems lately that few dealers carry SMII scopes and accessories anymore. Meade still has them available though.

The SMIII is in my opinion one of the most attractive telescopes around. Absolutely beautiful with it's anodized brass finish.

James


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Re: SM2 to SM3 stacking question answered

Post by Grakrob778 »

DeepSolar64 wrote: Wed Dec 16, 2020 5:44 am That's great that they are compatible, they should be. Do they sell the stacking etalons separately for the SMIII yet? I don't think I have ever seen them listed separately. If they don't then one using a SMII etalon still has the option to upgrade to DS later if he/she wishes after buying a SS scope. It seems lately that few dealers carry SMII scopes and accessories anymore. Meade still has them available though.

The SMIII is in my opinion one of the most attractive telescopes around. Absolutely beautiful with it's anodized brass finish.

James
James,
No they do not yet. One thing of note is I've read the SM3 90 DS scope's etalon does not allow for the user to place it in the scope as the primary etalon. Not sure if Meade has anymore of the SM2 etalons. Woodland Hills has one in stock though. Thanks for the comments. I was trying to get the information out that they do fit. When I went to looking for an answer it seemed no one knew if it would work. Now for the tuning.


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Re: SM2 to SM3 stacking question answered

Post by DeepSolar64 »

https://www.meade.com/solar/coronado-so ... ystem.html

Meade still carries the 90mm SMII etalons. Few of the listed dealers carry them anymore. I bought my SMII 90 DS last May for 3,400 dollars on a closeout From Woodland Hills. 2000 dollars off what Meade had them at the time. I wonder what is holding Meade off from selling the etalons separately for the SMIII?

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Re: SM2 to SM3 stacking question answered

Post by marktownley »

Jumping in here with a few personal thoughts... I have a hand selected SM90ii scope that performs superbly, It has been heavily modded with decent tube rings and a feather touch focuser, it's a delight to use! There's nothing i'd love more than an external DS etalon to go with it (s2 or s3 I don't mind), but will cost me £3k. However I won't buy one unless I can try one (properly) as I know it's a gamble getting a good one...


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Re: SM2 to SM3 stacking question answered

Post by Grakrob778 »

DeepSolar64 wrote: Wed Dec 16, 2020 6:28 pm https://www.meade.com/solar/coronado-so ... ystem.html

Meade still carries the 90mm SMII etalons. Few of the listed dealers carry them anymore. I bought my SMII 90 DS last May for 3,400 dollars on a closeout From Woodland Hills. 2000 dollars off what Meade had them at the time. I wonder what is holding Meade off from selling the etalons separately for the SMIII?

James
Meade has them out of stock. I wonder if the next step is discontinuing them, then maybe after bankruptcy re-structuring maybe they will then offer a DS etalon for the SM3 model. It makes no sense they would not offer Richview tuning on the DS SM3 etalon. I would rather be able to tune the DS etalon separately before stacking it. OPT is where I bought mine, and afterwards they listed them out of stock. I don't see anyone posting they have bought these etalons separately anywhere on forums. To my knowledge the only site in the US that has one in stock is Woodland Hills.


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Re: SM2 to SM3 stacking question answered

Post by Grakrob778 »

marktownley wrote: Wed Dec 16, 2020 8:18 pm Jumping in here with a few personal thoughts... I have a hand selected SM90ii scope that performs superbly, It has been heavily modded with decent tube rings and a feather touch focuser, it's a delight to use! There's nothing i'd love more than an external DS etalon to go with it (s2 or s3 I don't mind), but will cost me £3k. However I won't buy one unless I can try one (properly) as I know it's a gamble getting a good one...
Mark,
I'm happy that you were able to purchase your scope like that. I do not live anywhere near a retailer or club large enough to accommodate that type of purchase. I will evaluate the etalon hopefully tomorrow and go from there. I guess if it does not please me I can always send it back. I have a notion that it will be fine though. I paid just under $2300 for mine here. Arrived in a nice case, undamaged and appears un-used. All in all I have $6600 invested in this scope which is a tad bit higher than a DS SM3 BF15 new, but I unlike the SM3 DS version have Richview tuning on both etalons and they both thread directly into the scope which for me is worth the few hundred more.


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Re: SM2 to SM3 stacking question answered

Post by DeepSolar64 »

Mark,
I love how my SMII90 performs. Compared to my SMII60 is has a larger sweet spot and a more evenly lit field of view. Contrast is also considerably better than in the 60. Some of it may be attributed to aperture alone but I strongly suspect the etalons on the 90 are in fact better than the ones on the 60. Mine does however have the stock helical focuser. It does work but is not what I prefer.

Grakrob778,
Meade is up to something. I don't know what. They might indeed be about to kill the SolarMax II line off and concentrate on the SolarMax III. If so they need to sell the blocking filters and etalons separately for them. Could it be that they are coming out with something entirely new? Lunt Solar Systems now has most of their scopes as modular apochromats which may outclass the SMIII at least to some people. Could an apochromatic SMIV be in the works? But again Meade's bankruptcy could have something to do with it.

James


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Re: SM2 to SM3 stacking question answered

Post by marktownley »

Grakrob778 wrote: Thu Dec 17, 2020 12:09 am I'm happy that you were able to purchase your scope like that. I do not live anywhere near a retailer or club large enough to accommodate that type of purchase.
Mine wasn't bought from new, I bought it third hand, but, it was only that i'd been able to see / image through it on a number of occasions that I knew it was a good un'.


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Re: SM2 to SM3 stacking question answered

Post by DeepSolar64 »

marktownley wrote: Thu Dec 17, 2020 6:03 am
Grakrob778 wrote: Thu Dec 17, 2020 12:09 am I'm happy that you were able to purchase your scope like that. I do not live anywhere near a retailer or club large enough to accommodate that type of purchase.
Mine wasn't bought from new, I bought it third hand, but, it was only that i'd been able to see / image through it on a number of occasions that I knew it was a good un'.
And Mark, yours has the anodized brass tube, not the powder-coated gold tube mine has.


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Re: SM2 to SM3 stacking question answered

Post by Grakrob778 »

DeepSolar64 wrote: Thu Dec 17, 2020 5:58 am Could an apochromatic SMIV be in the works?
I think that would be a stretch right now.. Glad you are enjoying your scope though! I'm old school. Was lusting after a 90mm Coronado 14 years ago. Oh well on Meade's support. I do know they sent me a new blocking filter for free and let me keep the old one. OPT took care of that within a week.
Hopefully the etalon turns out as a keeper.

Graham


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Re: SM2 to SM3 stacking question answered

Post by DeepSolar64 »

Graham,
I bought my SMII60 from OPT. 1750 bucks for a double-stacked model. My SMII90 came from Woodland Hills back in May. DS model for just a little over 3,400 bucks. I jumped on it!

My White light wedge ( Altair ) came from Land Sea and Sky.

James


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Re: SM2 to SM3 stacking question answered

Post by Highbury Mark »

As a long-time Lunt and now Solarscope owner, I wish Coronado nothing but the best. All us enthusiasts need a strong Coronado to compete with Lunt and innovate. I have no knowledge of Meade’s business but I wouldn’t be surprised if Coronado were the only profitable part of the company. It just needs investment, and I suspect there are a number of players in the market who would love to own it. First task - a completely new PST, more modern styling, overhaul marketing and customer support. The PST brand name alone must be pretty valuable. I’m also one of those people who would really like Meade to thrive. My first proper telescope was a superb ETX-105 in the ‘90s. I still have the amazing Meade catalogue that came with it. Spent many an hour drooling over the vast range of scopes the firm produced back then.
Anyway, I digress - back on topic, Teleskop Express in Germany still has SMII 90mm filters in stock.


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Re: SM2 to SM3 stacking question answered

Post by DeepSolar64 »

Graham,
I had wanted an Ha solar telescope for quite a while. I almost bought a Coronado PST back in 2013 but didn't take the plunge. It wasn't until May 2019 until I finally bought the SMII60 and May of 2020 I bought the SMII90. I have always loved the look of the Coronado instruments with the gold/brass color giving them a classic beauty of their own. I considered a SMIII90 when I bought my SMII90 but the price on the SMII was just to good to pass up. As Highbury Mark remembers I was originally looking for a Lunt LS100Tha scope. Lunt had recently went modular and apochromatic and was priced too high for me to easily swing so the Coronado SMII90 fit the bill. The Coronado SMII90 fit my Losmandy AZ8 mount well pairing up with my Celestron NexStar GT 102mm refractor which I use with an Altair wedge for white light solar.

I am glad the SMII90 etalon fit your SMIII 90. That's awesome!


Highbury Mark,
Meade certainly is not what it used to be, that's for sure. I believe if Synta/Celestron/Sky-Watcher would have bought them they would have fared better. Some won't buy Coronado just because they are a Meade product. Still, a lot, if not most of their designs come for the David Lunt days of Coronado. Coronado is still worth a serious consideration. The No1 solar telescope of all time is still Coronado's PST and modders still covet the etalons outta them. I'll admit I would like to see someone truly worthy of Coronado buy them from Meade Instruments. But again like you said if Meade became more of what they used to be they might could make Coronado truly a threat to Lunt Solar Systems or any others out there. Like Mark Townley says get rid of the inconsistencies. Make consistent good etalons. Keep quality high. That's what makes a truly great solar product.

James



C102_SMII90_12-17-20.JPG
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Last edited by DeepSolar64 on Sun Dec 20, 2020 4:52 am, edited 1 time in total.


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Re: SM2 to SM3 stacking question answered

Post by Grakrob778 »

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The scope is front heavy for sure. I wish Coronado the best as well. Just like in everything, if you want a premium product you must have premium quality. Outsourcing to Mexico for cost savings sacrifices quality. In the auto industry Mexico is no where near the quality we make in Tennessee and we are about the same in cost per unit. Anyways, I hope this thread answers someone's question in the future or now.

Clear skies..


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Re: SM2 to SM3 stacking question answered

Post by DeepSolar64 »

Graham,
It's getting much harder to find U.S. made telescopes anymore and a premium is paid for them if you do. And then even if labeled U.S. made it doesn't always guarantee the highest of quality or that it is made in it's entirety here. Many scopes made in America have a considerable amount of sourced in foreign parts in them. Glass like that in objective lenses or mirrors is a good example. Try to find a high index ED glass made here. Hoya and O'Hara is a great example. Those ED glasses dominate the market and are Japanese. Fluorite is the same way. Many companies ship in competed objectives for their scopes and install them during assembly. Others buy the raw glass from foreign sources and grind-polish-figure it themselves. Other scope components and mounts are often the same way. Sourced in and assembled in USA for a completed product. That " Made in USA " label is not the quality guarantee it used to be. You would probably be surprised on how many foreign components are in a Ford and Chevy.

I work in a lighting systems plant. When I started there back in 1994 almost everything was built " in house ". All of the components that went into our lighting fixtures were made in Hendersonville USA. That's not so now. We have components sourced in from China, Japan and Mexico as well as other places in the US. We also have a Mexican facility that makes our lower-cost-profit products. Stuff that was once made here. We have went from a 1,400 personnel plant to 285 people. Now we really are just a lighting fixture assembly plant. Those old days of vertical integration are a thing of the past.

Some places other than the U.S. do produce high quality instruments. Japan and the EU are good examples. China and Taiwan have gotten much better in recent years.

I thought the SMIII was still made or assembled here it being Meade Coronado's flagship Ha telescope. It sounds like I am wrong?


James

P.S. That's an awesome looking SMIII. And the mount looks plenty strong enough to hold it. Is that real wooden legs I see on it? My Losmandy AZ8 holds both C102 and SMII90 easily.It has a max total weight capacity of 70 pounds. http://www.losmandy.com/AZ8.html


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Re: SM2 to SM3 stacking question answered

Post by Grakrob778 »

Hey James,
I think it is made in Mexico but assembled here in the states. The tripod is a Berlebach Planet from Germany. Its a beautiful white ash tripod I purchased from B&H. Check their site out. They have a lot of nice wooden tripods.
Graham


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Re: SM2 to SM3 stacking question answered

Post by Highbury Mark »

Re-reading the original post, Coronado appears to be the only manufacturer which does not specify single stack and double stack etalons. Presume that’s because of the way they are tuned??
Hope the new filter is a success - will be interested to see how it performs


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Re: SM2 to SM3 stacking question answered

Post by Grakrob778 »

Highbury Mark wrote: Sat Dec 19, 2020 2:40 pm Re-reading the original post, Coronado appears to be the only manufacturer which does not specify single stack and double stack etalons. Presume that’s because of the way they are tuned??
Hope the new filter is a success - will be interested to see how it performs
https://www.meade.com/coronado-solarma ... stem.html

Here is what I bought. It says DS but doesn't say if it will work on the Solarmax3 scopes.


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Re: SM2 to SM3 stacking question answered

Post by Highbury Mark »

Ah - ok. So it is specifically a DS filter. Should work well hopefully.


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Re: SM2 to SM3 stacking question answered

Post by DeepSolar64 »

Grakrob778 wrote: Sat Dec 19, 2020 2:13 pm Hey James,
I think it is made in Mexico but assembled here in the states. The tripod is a Berlebach Planet from Germany. Its a beautiful white ash tripod I purchased from B&H. Check their site out. They have a lot of nice wooden tripods.
Graham

Graham,
I have always preferred wooden tripods over metal ones. In my opinion they damp down vibrations better than metal ones and have that nice classic tripod look. My 38 year old Traq 60mm refractor has a wooden tripod. All of my others are steel or aluminum. A close friend of mine has an older heavy-duty StellarVue wooden tripod. It's really nice.

Thanks for the link. I will check it out.

Didn't you say you have a SMII60? Is yours a SS or DS scope? How does it do visually?

I have one too!


James

Meade Coronado SMII60_12-19-20.JPG
Meade Coronado SMII60_12-19-20.JPG (124 KiB) Viewed 2458 times
CoronadoSMII60_Lily_12-19-20.JPG
CoronadoSMII60_Lily_12-19-20.JPG (157.4 KiB) Viewed 2458 times


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Re: SM2 to SM3 stacking question answered

Post by Grakrob778 »

That's a nice looking scope James. I only have one Ha scope. Yes, I agree on the wooden tripods. Once I saw what they were I had to complete my setup with one. I can't stand the metal clanking anymore. Going through the house carrying it out, clanking. The Planet is one size down from the most heavy duty tripod they offer. Reading their history, they have been making tripods for a very long time. I think this one is rated for 200 pounds. Its a tad bit heavy at 25 pounds I think. I bought the cushions for the leg contact points, still have the spikes. I also got the carry bag for it. Its an eq6 variant. I would rather have a black mount instead of white and green but its not that big a bother. Maybe one day I'll pay some of these bills down and buy a smaller Ha scope. I had an excellent PST for about 10 years. Should've kept it. I think if I get anything else it should be a Cak module. But I have spent enough this year! Thanks for the conversation about our equipment. It makes me appreciate it more doing so.
Hopefully it will clear up soon. Im taking Monday and Tuesday off to evaluate the etalon.


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Re: SM2 to SM3 stacking question answered

Post by DeepSolar64 »

Graham,
It's nice having two Ha scopes. The smaller SMII60 is much easier to set up and far more portable, hence I use it the most. It's also far more likely to be the travel scope than the SMII90 is. However the 90 far outperforms the 60 in resolution but it is much heavier and takes a bit longer to set up. Each scopes advantage is the other's disadvantage so they only compliment one another. It's still nice to have a small scope to do a quick " look-see " when time is not available to set up the bigger instrument. In this way a Coronado PST would excel!

I know what you mean about Bills. I first considered a PST back in 2013 but had way too many bills at that time to afford even that modest scope. By early 2019 I was able to purchase the SMII60 and a year later the SMII90. I am new to Ha but have been doing white light for decades. Last month I purchased a ZWO camera only to find out my old computer doesn't run it well. So that is a future purchase. I also need a motorized tracking mount for both scopes since my current ones are altazimuth. Then I want a DayStar Sodium D line Quark and a Lunt CaK filter. So many wants and not enough money! And then did a mention my own observatory!!?

Good luck on your Etalon evaluation. Let all of us here know how it does.

James


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Re: SM2 to SM3 stacking question answered

Post by Merlin66 »

Talking about DS set-ups....
I used a pair of SM60 etalons on the ED 80 for many years. They worked well for me.
Sold one....then regretted that!!
Replaced it with an SM60 II etalon. The old SM60 screws directly to the front of the SM60 II.
No issues so far.


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Re: SM2 to SM3 stacking question answered

Post by DeepSolar64 »

Merlin,
Can you tell any difference in performance between the old and new etalons?

James


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Re: SM2 to SM3 stacking question answered

Post by Merlin66 »

James,
Using the SM60II etalon adds a new dimension to the tuning of the DS.
The original SM60 etalons were both null tuned to the red wing, is meant that once they were tuned together they effectively became a “solid” narrow band filter. Any tilt tuning of the pair seemed to maintain the CWL of each etalon and allow you to go from the red wing to the blue wing.
With the SM60II the Rich View tuning moves the CWL towards the red wing, while the the tilt moves towards the blue.
I found I had to Rich View tune the SM60II to the red wing ( to better match the SM60). Then any tilt of the pair was close to maintaining the CWL at a narrower bandwidth.
I do find in use that there is a need to tweak the front SM60 to ensure they are both on band.
To help me do this I’ve added a small motor to the Tmax tuner (thanks to Martin S. For the concept) which so far seems to be working for me. (Photos to follow)
Hope this helps.
Original SM60 DS
Original SM60 DS
IMG_1544s.jpg (242.23 KiB) Viewed 1502 times
SW motor tilt control SM60II
SW motor tilt control SM60II
Vegemite_motor_tuner02.JPG (221.19 KiB) Viewed 1502 times
SM60_SM60II DS
SM60_SM60II DS
P1090813.JPG (176 KiB) Viewed 1502 times
added micromotor front SM60
added micromotor front SM60
P1090831.JPG (156 KiB) Viewed 1502 times


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Re: SM2 to SM3 stacking question answered

Post by DeepSolar64 »

Merlin,
Your use of motors for tuning is a wonderful idea! How actually do you control those motors? That little black box looks like a wired remote.

James


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Re: SM2 to SM3 stacking question answered

Post by Merlin66 »

KISS......
I make use of the Skywatcher/Orion electronic motors and controllers. Cheap and effective. Use them belt geared for all the focusers (six at the last count!)
The nominal 9V SW controller also drives the micromotor (variable speed).
https://www.ebay.com.au/itm/DC-6V-12V-5 ... 2176783025

For Ha imaging I have three controllers sitting on the desk:
Fine focusing ("In/ out") - SW motor+ belt drive
Tuning of the SM6 II ("Open/Close") -SW motor+Vegemite lid
Tuning of the SM60 ("Open/Close") -micromotor+SW controller

I set and don't touch the Rich View Tuning on the SM60II
Hope that helps.


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Re: SM2 to SM3 stacking question answered

Post by Highbury Mark »

Ingenious.
I struggle to reach the DS tuning control on my Ha scope.


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Re: SM2 to SM3 stacking question answered

Post by DeepSolar64 »

Highbury Mark wrote: Fri Jan 01, 2021 2:37 pm Ingenious.
I struggle to reach the DS tuning control on my Ha scope.
It's the same with my SMII90. Tweak and look and tweak again. I can reach only the tuning knob on the rear etalon while looking through the eyepiece. The SMII60 is much shorter so I can look through the eyepiece as I am adjusting the tuning.

James


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Re: SM2 to SM3 stacking question answered

Post by Merlin66 »

James,
Sounds like you need to buy some Vegemite!
I've used the Vegemite lid drive for over ten years....well worth trying. Certainly makes life much easier.....


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Re: SM2 to SM3 stacking question answered

Post by DeepSolar64 »

Vegemite! Yes, I need to try that. I hear it's an acquired taste though. Here it's called Marmite.

And make a motorized drive using the lid for the 90.

James


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Re: SM2 to SM3 stacking question answered

Post by Merlin66 »

James,
The Pommie Marmite is a poor copy of our Vegemite ;)
You'll find fitting a drive well worth the effort.


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Re: SM2 to SM3 stacking question answered

Post by DeepSolar64 »

Merlin,

:lol: Whole Foods has Vegemite locally and it can also be ordered on Amazon. Our local Ingle's store has Marmite. I'll have to try a Vegemite sandwich! And save the yellow lid!

I had to look the stuff up. It's not exactly a common spread here.

https://www.amazon.com/s/ref=nb_sb_noss ... s=Vegemite

I think the subject of Marmite came up with Alexandra some time back. If I remember right, she likes the stuff. Now I gotta try it. I know to expect something different. :idea:

James


Lunt 8x32 SUNoculars
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Re: SM2 to SM3 stacking question answered

Post by marktownley »

DeepSolar64 wrote: Sat Jan 02, 2021 4:56 am I'll have to try a Vegemite sandwich!
Vegemite on toast with butter is my favourite, I also like Marmite. A spoonful in a winter stew works well too.


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Re: SM2 to SM3 stacking question answered

Post by Merlin66 »

I may be Scots by birth, I’m Australian by choice. 🇦🇺


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Re: SM2 to SM3 stacking question answered

Post by DeepSolar64 »

Merlin66 wrote: Sat Jan 02, 2021 7:49 am I may be Scots by birth, I’m Australian by choice. 🇦🇺
Colin Hay of the 80’s rock band said the same thing. He was also born in Scotland but moved early in life to Australia. He loves the land “ down under “!!


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