Pros and cons of Lunt LS60THa and LS60MT

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Pros and cons of Lunt LS60THa and LS60MT

Post by SimonM »

I'm still in the market for a solar scope. It didn't start too well, but I'm over my initial issues.

I'm interested in getting the Lunt Pressure Tuned version with the B1200 Blocking Filter. Until about 24 hours ago I only considered the standard (it might be called the "old" or "original" model).

THa is the scope that has been around for a while and is a 60mm 500mm f/8.3 dedicated h-alpha solar scope - what most folks are familiar with. MT is Lunt's new modular system that also allows Calcium Blocking Filters as an option and also nighttime use - if that is your thing too. The capabilities of the two scopes are 0.7(SS) and 0.5 (DS) for THa and (from the specs, but not confirmed) 0.65A (SS) and 0.45A (DS) for the MT version.

Simon
Last edited by SimonM on Sun Feb 07, 2021 8:42 am, edited 1 time in total.


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Re: Pros and cons of Lunt LS60THa and LS60MT

Post by Highbury Mark »

I haven’t looked through one of the new modular scopes, but a friend has the double stacked LS60MT and is very happy with it.
My experience with two older double stacked Lunt scopes is that single stacked they are much better for imaging than visual. Surface detail (filaments/active regions) is clearly visible for the visual observer, but fairly washed out. Proms are decent though. Some lucky owners manage to get excellent single stack LS60s, but as with all solar scopes, these top performing etalons are in the minority. You might be one of the lucky ones. Otherwise, double stacking significantly improves surface detail, and in my view transforms a typical LS50 or LS60.
It’s interesting Lunt is claiming slightly narrower bandwidth with the new modular range.I’d take this with a pinch of salt. Each etalon is different, and bandwidth isn’t the only criteria that produces satisfying views - etalon finesse is crucial too.
Personally, I’d prefer a double stacked LS50 to a single stacked 60. I’m sure you’re also aware that a lot of the older LS60s are double stacked with 50mm etalons, which effectively brings the scope’s aperture down to 50mm. So if you plan to double stack the 60, I’m afraid it means coughing up more for the wider 60mm DS filter


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Re: Pros and cons of Lunt LS60THa and LS60MT

Post by SimonM »

Mark, I appreciate your thoughts.
Highbury Mark wrote: Fri Jan 29, 2021 11:30 am I haven’t looked through one of the new modular scopes, but a friend has the double-stacked LS60MT and is very happy with it.
For many users (like myself) having another refractor isn't really a requirement. I can use my normal refractor for deep sky, or add calcium to this without needing modularity. I suspect most users will come to solar after other (more normal) astronomy and so have some reasonable kit. For the person who has nothing,it is a big jump (cost) to start with solar e.g. a lot of inertia to overcome. I'm sure there was a fire sale in the US that didn't make it to the UK.
Highbury Mark wrote: Fri Jan 29, 2021 11:30 am Double stacking significantly improves surface detail, and in my view transforms a typical LS50 or LS60.
My thoughts entirely so a DS is on the cards - at some point. I consider a DS 60 is preferable to a SS 80, or a DS 50 is better than a SS 60. It is also good to start off simple and progress...

Actually, I do get confused. I thought 0.7A was to facilitate seeing prominences (edge detail) but 0.5 was to see filaments (surface detail), so why is DS always better?
Highbury Mark wrote: Fri Jan 29, 2021 11:30 am It’s interesting Lunt is claiming slightly narrower bandwidth with the new modular range. I’d take this with a pinch of salt. Each etalon is different, and bandwidth isn’t the only criteria that produce satisfying views - etalon finesse is crucial too.
With the "rush" to get a multi-use product out and the reality of needing to use available refractor components and "shoehorn" them into a usable form-factor, there will be compromises. So if costs increase in one area then savings have to be made in another (like most engineering compromises as I'm not sure the market would stand for a 10% improvement in return for a 100% hike in price). There could just as easily be a 10% cut in performance in return for a 50% hike in the margin - so it's anyone's guess why they went in that direction.

The new scope is marketed as having increased clarity. I had thought that the scope itself was the least sensitive part of the product e.g. an APO, ED, or basic optics at one wavelength do not need to be of the highest quality.
Highbury Mark wrote: Fri Jan 29, 2021 11:30 am Personally, I’d prefer a double-stacked LS50 to a single stacked 60.
I think a smaller DS is preferable to a bigger SS. With SS do you get a visual view with the hint of extra detail, but when you examine it carefully you don't get to explore that (supposed) detail? With imaging does the visual impact take second place because it's about what can be extracted (eventually) from the image? More contrast with the DS but a darker and harder to "read" visual view, perhaps? I also get that an equal-sized DS is preferable to a smaller sized DS as you could have saved some of the cost of the bigger SS that is downsized to the smaller DS (even made up the price difference).

For the 80 they have produced a PT DS element that is internally added in-line. I'm a bit puzzled why they didn't just adopt a similar strategy for the 60,
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Re: Pros and cons of Lunt LS60THa and LS60MT

Post by marktownley »

Hi Simon.

I've no personal experience of the modular scopes. I can see why they're packaged the way they are - one stop shop for solar, there is an appeal. Personally I wouldn't use any of the modular range for CaK (you've seen my other thread on long focal length refractors).

A 60mm scope is only ever going to realistically be a full disk scope, think about observing the moon with a scope and how much magnification you can use compared to the scopes size. As the aperture increases so does the ability to zoom in more...

I think I would go for a pressure tuned Lunt 60 with a feathertouch focuser, that would be a keeper. You can always double stack later on, and if you get aperture fever look at options then. Similarly you can always get a calcium module later on if you get into the imaging side.

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Re: Pros and cons of Lunt LS60THa and LS60MT

Post by SimonM »

marktownley wrote: Sat Jan 30, 2021 9:59 am I've no personal experience with modular scopes.
Indeed that is the issue. I can find very few instances of the modular setup being used.

The good folk at Lunt Solar Systems spent an (inordinate) amount of time telling me about the advantages of their new scope setup. I'm coming around to the idea that it is not something to instantly dismiss as simply jumping on the "modularity bandwagon".

My initial concern was that the older system was perfected with components that fit together perfectly. I have looked at the results of LS50THa, and mostly LS60THa in the hands of the knowledgeable, and the results seem as good as I would want especially for imaging.

The issue I have is that I don't know what to expect for visual e.g. the mark one eyeball doesn't have the option to lucky image and sees the good with the bad and it can't opt to extend the integration time e.g. I'm stuck with an inferior EP (my mark one eyeball), that is not upgradable. Can I use a Powermate to look at the detail (without ruining it) - the (shortlived) Quark imposed a 4.2x Barlow regardless?

I get conflicting descriptions of what to expect visually e.g. SS is enough, DS is preferred, SS falls short, DS is not so easy, DS is as easy, front-mounted DS darkens the image and inline do/don't, etc. For imaging, there are mostly examples of DS in the hands of experts, so I don't know how SS will be found wanting. Almost universally, the idea that smaller DS beats out SS one size up.

I also get conflicting descriptions of the focusers. Crayford is good enough for visual and imaging with light loads, but not for bino-viewing. There is now a third option of an R&P setup.

I also get conflicting descriptions of the blocking filters. Some users consider the smaller size e.g. B600 adequate for a 60 and others say you can't manage without a B1200. At the 80, nobody has explained why the focal length of a modest refractor requires a further hike to B1800. Logic says that the image (cone) is narrower with an f/9 system than an f/7 and should require less, not more. There is also a combination of positive and negative lenses to bring the light parallel before it passes through the Etalon. So vignetting isn't an issue. Normally a 4.2mm image would require a bigger filter diameter than simply 4.2mm because the edges are not perfect and coming away from a sensor demands handling a cone that gets bigger. The two extremes are, bigger blocking filters are sold to solve a problem that doesn't exist - there is only one sun and it doesn't vary in size, the opposing view is that a bigger blocking filter provides a flatter image/view. With a bigger sensor, having a bigger expanse of surrounding sky doesn't seem a problem or an EP that can now show a wider AFOV including more surrounding sky

The last conflicting description is about how useful a zoom EP is. If it can show 3.5 diameters of the sun, this helps with framing but if it shows 1.25 diameters, what benefit is there to exchange it for a fixed EP. I do like the idea of a zoom but also using an existing EP and perhaps one optimal EP - whatever that involves. Perhaps simple EPs are better e.g. less scatter, fewer issues etc.
marktownley wrote: Sat Jan 30, 2021 9:59 am You've seen my other thread on long focal length refractors)
Indeed, I have followed it with interest. I can see that trying to evaluate what will offer an improvement is not so obvious and there may be an upper ceiling of performance that is wavelength difficult to overcome. What is the difference between a k-line (wide filter) and a Calcium (narrow) blocking filter with the results you get (probably night and day)?

Simon


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Re: Pros and cons of Lunt LS60THa and LS60MT

Post by EGRAY_OBSERVATORY »

As Mark very correctly adds, a FeatherTouch Focuser is far better than a basic one for both Ha and Cal-k Lunt Solar Scopes as I have experienced over the last 10-years or so. Tweaking-out proms or surface detail for either type is a must, which with a standard focuser is more difficult to achieve...

I have both a LS60THaFT/B1200 - LUNT 60mm Hydrogen-Alpha/FeatherTouch/B1200-Blocking-Filter + a LS50FHa - LUNT 50mm Ha Double-Stack Filter
and a LS60Cak/FT/B1200 - LUNT 60mm Calcium-K/FeatherTouch Solar Scope
as well as a 558211/LS1.25HW - LUNT 31.7mm Hershel-wedge (for use on an ORION 80EDt-CF scope (stopped-down).

Quick Release mounting system are available for those quick changes on a single tripod or mount, although i have made my own. In fact mine are all mounted on the same SkyWatcher EQ-6 mount along with the third Orion ED80T-CF for WL imaging, which negates the need for changing-over scopes,
after accurate alignment between the three, which all have suitable cameras and cables for each to the computer using SharpCap for switching between those.

Absolutely no problems with any of these items and Lunt or the European Main distributor as Bresser-Germany, as used by U.K. suppliers are usually very helpful - especially if dealing direct with Lunt for advice or assistance...

Other comments from Mark T., are also correct.

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Re: Pros and cons of Lunt LS60THa and LS60MT

Post by EGRAY_OBSERVATORY »

I can also add that whatever other will say, you get with Lunt, what you pay for and to go for a cheaper option will likely not be as good as an option that is likely to be pricier. You can do the Double Stack option later for a better contrast for surface detail in Ha - if finances allow, or save for.

i know from others that the B1200 BF is far better the the B600.

Zoom EP's are a very useful item to have and otherwise a 24mm down to around 10mm should be sufficient for most viewing-purposes (Mark T., might confirm that..
Zoom EP's also aid finding the Sun when other available methods are not acquired or used.

Don't worry so much about the exact technologies as ideally to look back through the SolarChat archives over many years to 2014 aprox., where images and other information can be easily viewed as to whatever scope and gear was used...

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Re: Pros and cons of Lunt LS60THa and LS60MT

Post by SimonM »

Highbury Mark wrote: Fri Jan 29, 2021 11:30 am I haven’t looked through one of the new modular scopes, but a friend has the double stacked LS60MT and is very happy with it.
My experience with two older double stacked Lunt scopes is that single stacked they are much better for imaging than visual. Surface detail (filaments/active regions) is clearly visible for the visual observer, but fairly washed out. Proms are decent though. Some lucky owners manage to get excellent single stack LS60s, but as with all solar scopes, these top-performing etalons are in the minority. You might be one of the lucky ones. Otherwise, double stacking significantly improves surface detail, and in my view transforms a typical LS50 or LS60.
It’s interesting Lunt is claiming slightly narrower bandwidth with the new modular range. I’d take this with a pinch of salt. Each etalon is different, and bandwidth isn’t the only criteria that produce satisfying views - etalon finesse is crucial too.
Personally, I’d prefer a double-stacked LS50 to a single stacked 60. I’m sure you’re also aware that a lot of the older LS60s are double stacked with 50mm etalons, which effectively brings the scope’s aperture down to 50mm. So if you plan to double stack the 60, I’m afraid it means coughing up more for the wider 60mm DS filter
Thanks Mark,

I have been suffering from "analysis paralysis" for about a week, but I have (fortunately) "turned the corner" and I have made an initial decision... I will be getting a Lunt 60 double-stack, Pressure Tuned 60 with B1200 blocking filter, with a zoom EP, specifically the LS60MT/B1200 R&P version:

1. Lunt 60mm Universal Day and Night Use Modular Telescope with B1200 blocking filter, 2" Rack and Pinion Focuser # LS60MT/B1200RP;
2. Lunt Front Mount 60mm Double-Stack filter for LS60MT # LS60FHa;
3. Lunt Zoom Eyepiece 7.2 - 21.5mm # LS7-21ZE-S;
4. Lunt Solar 150mm / 5.91" Dovetail # LS150PS.

The sale folks at Lunt Solar Systems reckon that the MT version is an improvement with improved sharpness and contrast and with slightly better bandpass figures compared to the THa version that they discontinued. They are recommending R&P over the Crayford focuser for most users. For first time h-alpha they suggest 60 over a 40 or 50 and only later to consider 80 or 100. For the UK they don't recommend the 130. They say that the double-stacked version can be added later, as required. I opted to get the DS to start with because I know that I won't be able to resist it so any thoughts that an 80 SS is sufficient would be short-lived.

The 60 Double-Stack is the same size as the scope's h-alpha and is front-mounted (it also fits 50THa and 60THa. Given a choice they recommend a front-mounted Double-Stack wherever possible because the greater separation of Etalons moves the secondary image further out and minimizes reflections. The one downside of the 80 is there is no front-mounted option. For the 100 there is a choice but it comes at a cost of 300% vs 10-15% improvements. For the 130 there is no choice and it had to be in-line. Etalons have a cost proportional to their size (area).

They recommend a smaller Double-Stack over a bigger Single-Stack and bigger Blocking Filters for imaging and to offer a wider view and flatter field with a wider sweet spot. There is no reason to choose their 4" Dovetail when there is a 6" version and no need for a Losmandy Dovetail.

The one thing I wasn't sure about was the Lunt zoom EP which they recommend for first-time h-alpha-ers. People who have it seem to like using it. I do have a set of Baader Hyperion EPs with 5, 8, 10, 13, 17, 21, and 24. Also a Baader Aspheric 36mm. So my EPs overlap with the zoom 8 thru 21. They don't recommend widefield EPs because there is no benefit for h-alpha. They tend to be more complex and have greater scatter and lower contrast for h-alpha. Having appropriate baffles and blackened lens edges all helps with contrast. The zoom is almost perfectly parfocal. They also recommend their fixed EPs especially the 12mm and 16mm for the LS60 but say there is no right EP choice for everyone and all conditions. One of their recommendations is just to use what you already have and not have a fixed idea of what is best until later.

I want to be able to do the whole Sun disc foremost but with some cropped images. I have a QHY 178 mono guide camera (USB3) to experiment with that has a sensor that is just big enough at 5mm x 7mm (for the Sun 4.2mm). The pixels are a bit smaller than a 174, but that might be an advantage as it could avoid the need to use a Barlow 2x. There is the option to bin 2x2. I would be surprised if there is any use for a 4x Barlow e.g. a Powermate? The 174 can have Amp glow that the 178 largely avoids because it has a rolling shutter vs the global shutter on a 174. Of course, there may be a grid pattern exposed (did they really remove the Bayer matrix completely in the mono version or have the circuitry optimized only for the color version)? I suppose I may need to think about tilting the camera if Newton Rings show up.

I also have a Baader Safety Wedge for white light and a 2" diagonal for nighttime. Lunt now includes a Tele Vue Solar Max with the scopes. With the Quark that I tried and returned, I was using the shadow of the scope and then the screen on the back of the WL wedge before switching to h-alpha. I quickly learned that I do prefer a whole image and the zoomed-in 4.2x Barlow in the Quark wasn't ideal. With the Solar Max and the zoom EP, there should be no need to start with WL before "flipping" to h-alpha.

For first time h-alpha they suggest 60 over a 40 or 50 and only later to consider 80, 100. For the UK they don't recommend the 130.

Simon


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Re: Pros and cons of Lunt LS60THa and LS60MT

Post by marktownley »

2 points from me Simon.

Do not waste your money on a (premium price!) lunt dovetail, any slotted one will fit. How much is it incidentally???

Do not waste your money on the Lunt zoom, there's nothing wrong with it, it;s just cost more than equivalent OEM zooms, and you have those lovely Hyperions, so, use them instead...

Regards the camera, step back from the analysis paralysis here; get the scope and only then will you see if your 178 has the grid pattern, if it is, you're wasting your time with it. But, small steps, get the scope and then when weather allows and you've had enough visuals play with the cameras.

You don't need to line all the ducks up in one row, slow down a bit and just enjoy the scope visually when it and the weather arrives.

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Re: Pros and cons of Lunt LS60THa and LS60MT

Post by Highbury Mark »

That all sounds great Simon - I’m sure it will be a terrific scope. No matter how much research we do, there comes a time when we have to make a decision. And I think you’ve made the right one. The only small thing I would have done differently is not buy the Lunt zoom. It’s a nice eyepiece but is also sold under different brand names much more cheaply - I’ve seen it on sale for around £80. For £190, which is the Lunt zoom price in the UK, you could almost buy a Pentax XF zoom (from Wex Cameras) which is the best solar eyepiece on the market IMO. Not a big deal - the Lunt zoom will be great too. What’s more important is you’re getting a truly superb solar package that will provide a lifetime of pleasure.


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Re: Pros and cons of Lunt LS60THa and LS60MT

Post by Highbury Mark »

Hadn’t seen Mark T’s post when I posted mine. We’re in agreement on the Lunt zoom and dovetail. If money’s tight, then see how the Hyperions perform. I found they lacked crispness in my LS60. But then I also didn’t rate TV Delos for solar, and I know many others like them.


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Re: Pros and cons of Lunt LS60THa and LS60MT

Post by marktownley »

I have the Pentax zoom too - had it for years and never sold it on, which says something for me :lol: (normally if i'm not using it I sell it!)

Other than that I rate the TV plossls.


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Re: Pros and cons of Lunt LS60THa and LS60MT

Post by EGRAY_OBSERVATORY »

Having read through all the posts and replies Simon, best-way to get into Solar-viewing first is get the scope and even a basic-tripod or mount - at least.

You already have 5, 8, 10, 13, 17, 21, and 24 EP's, so utilise them without the need for anything else as EP's. If you really want a Zoom EP, then exactly as Mark T. says - and he well knows what he talks about...

A FeatherTouch focuser is a must for such fine-focusing as required - as mentioned previously.

Then enjoy getting used to the SolarScope visually for a while and enjoy the views that Ha can perform as surface-detail, filaments, plages, etc., prominences and even Sun-spots locations. It will take you a while (WHEN THE WEATHER ALLOWS) to get used to the focusing and tuning for each of these artefacts, that so many of us know now so well - but only after we gained experience of the use of any Ha scope.

Do not "run before walking" - as if you later decide it is not for you, then you will not really appreciate what you have wasted...!!!

Later-on, to add an expensive Double-Stack for better contrast, the correct camera for what you wish to image of the Sun or Moon (same Size) and any other camera for whatever else is up there to image - can follow.

I like many others 'SolarChatters' and elsewhere, have usually gone down the same lines as mentioned above and just simply add equipment after gaining the experiences of using what you have saved for and got and then gain the information later on before buying extra's...

As said previously, LUNT is an excellent firm to deal with and they will no doubt assist if a problem persists.

I have been using White-Light, Hydrogen-Alpha and Calcium-K scopes for many years (and not just my own-either) covering nearly all of this century, so I have an idea of what is the best ways of enhancing the hobby and well recognise when somebody else - also know what they are talking about...

I've even designed and built my own large-observatory specifically for Solar Astronomy and imaging, albeit is available for other astro-uses too.

Thus Endeth My Lesson...
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Re: Pros and cons of Lunt LS60THa and LS60MT

Post by Highbury Mark »

marktownley wrote: Tue Feb 02, 2021 7:53 pm I have the Pentax zoom too - had it for years and never sold it on, which says something for me :lol: (normally if i'm not using it I sell it!)

Other than that I rate the TV plossls.
:lol:
I’m the same Mark! Virtually 100% binoviewing for solar these days but I will never sell the little XF.


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Re: Pros and cons of Lunt LS60THa and LS60MT

Post by SimonM »

marktownley wrote: Tue Feb 02, 2021 6:56 pm Do not waste your money on a (premium price!) Lunt dovetail, any slotted one will fit. How much is it incidentally???

Do not waste your money on the Lunt zoom, there's nothing wrong with it, it just cost more than equivalent OEM zooms, and you have those lovely Hyperions, so, use them instead...
Highbury Mark wrote: Tue Feb 02, 2021 7:21 pm Hadn’t seen Mark T’s post when I posted mine. We’re in agreement on the Lunt zoom and dovetail. If money’s tight, then see how the Hyperions perform. I found they lacked crispness in my LS60. But then I also didn’t rate TV Delos for solar, and I know many others like them.
"If money’s tight" - my original budget for h-alpha has gone from £1,100+ for the Quark and UV/IR filter, to something "astronomical". I can save a few quid on the dovetail by getting either a generic dovetail and drilling out the holes to match the spacing of the Lunt or I could buy a generic 6" from FLO that has a double slot. The good folks at Lunt confirmed what I suspected that the bolts were 1/4" Socket Head UNC.

"they lacked crispness in my LS60" – just to be clear, you are saying the Hyperions lacked crispness? What the good folks at Lunt told me too.
Highbury Mark wrote: Tue Feb 02, 2021 7:11 pm That all sounds great Simon - I’m sure it will be a terrific scope. No matter how much research we do, there comes a time when we have to make a decision.
No buyer's remorse then (hopefully).
Highbury Mark wrote: Tue Feb 02, 2021 7:11 pm The only small thing I would have done differently is not to buy the Lunt zoom. It’s a nice eyepiece but is also sold under different brand names much more cheaply - I’ve seen it on sale for around £80. For £190, which is the Lunt zoom price in the UK, you could almost buy a Pentax XF zoom (from Wex Cameras) which is the best solar eyepiece on the market IMO. Not a big deal - the Lunt zoom will be great too. What’s more important is you’re getting a truly superb solar package that will provide a lifetime of pleasure.
"I’ve seen it on sale for around £80" - I'm aware that the same looking zoom EP is available for £80 e.g. OVL.

"You could almost buy a Pentax XF zoom (from Wex Cameras) which is the best solar eyepiece on the market IMO" - that's what Simon Bennett from Widescreen Centre said when I asked him about getting the Lunt zoom with a 60. At £295 (with him) it was looking a little bit of an indulgence to move away from the Lunt zoom, so a more reasonable £225 from Bristol Cameras.

One of the good folks at Lunt didn't mention the Pentax XF (why would they) but they did say that a "complex" EP will kill the contrast and she did offer an opinion that it has one less element than theirs (and costs a bit more, which can be a good thing). So that is almost a recommendation.

"What’s more important is you’re getting a truly superb solar package that will provide a lifetime of pleasure" - I hope so, at least until the blue blocking filter goes "XXXX up" and I have to replace it for less than a tenner. Let us hope I won't be (q)uarking mad then...

The Baader Hyperion IV Zoom EP is sometimes considered a nice little quality paperweight, but I have been told it doesn't do h-alpha very well. I kind of think how does it know to misbehave? Doesn't it have ER problems and you have to be careful lining up the EP to your eye at the lower end?

I'm inclined to "sit on my hands" and try the Hyperions. The good folks at Lunt did, however, say that a parfocal zoom is a big plus (their zoom is within 0.5mm except at one point - so almost completely parfocal) and that all EPs that look the same are not the same. They all start life in just a few Chinese OEM factories but they are spec-ed with coatings (which isn't that important, apparently), that the baffles added/removed cost "nickel and dimes" to alter (spec), but make a huge difference and that the AFOV for the Sun gives a favorable impression more if the typically widefield of view is managed because there is only one target. The £80 EP has a wider AFOV than the Lunt. They also said try the Hyperions because there is the option to later get one of their cheaper fixed EPs that give up the zoom feature (good for newbie h-alpha-ers) but are nicer, later on. Simplicity (less glass) typically equals less scatter and more contrast.

I must just skip buying a dovetail anyway. The Losmandy Sky-Watcher dovetail on my Esprit 100 is the shortest piece of junk and worst feature of the scope. It barely allows me to balance everything – two cameras, OAG, flattener. So, I was going to get a proper length one for the SW and recycle the existing SW one for the Lunt. Makes the whole proposition a bargain (not).
EGRAY_OBSERVATORY wrote: Tue Feb 02, 2021 8:30 pm Having read through all the posts and replies Simon, the best way to get into Solar-viewing first is to get the scope and even a basic-tripod or mount - at least.

You already have 5, 8, 10, 13, 17, 21, and 24 EP's, so utilize them without the need for anything else as EP's. If you really want a Zoom EP, then exactly as Mark T. says - and he well knows what he talks about...

A FeatherTouch focuser is a must for such fine-focusing as required - as mentioned previously.

As said previously, LUNT is an excellent firm to deal with and they will no doubt assist if a problem persists.

I have been using White-Light, Hydrogen-Alpha and Calcium-K scopes for many years (and not just my own-either) covering nearly all of this century, so I have an idea of what is the best ways of enhancing the hobby and well recognize when somebody else - also know what they are talking about...

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The good folk at Lunt probably are dreading the time I next pick up the phone and ramble on about their scopes. I have had four long chats with them across several evenings. There are only 10 people in the firm and at least two of them are probably sick of talking to me. They probably have a 5-minute chat, "bish bash bosh" and that's another new Lunt user "born".

"A FeatherTouch focuser is a must for such fine-focusing as required" - they are recommending their R&P version over both of the Crayfords. The problem is that I don't know if it is a GSO sourced one or anything about it.
Highbury Mark wrote: Tue Feb 02, 2021 8:32 pm
marktownley wrote: Tue Feb 02, 2021 7:53 pm I have the Pentax zoom too - had it for years and never sold it on, which says something for me :lol: (normally if i'm not using it I sell it!)

Other than that I rate the TV plossls.
:lol:
I’m the same Mark! Virtually 100% binoviewing for solar these days but I will never sell the little XF.
With the Quark the EP looks like they are on “stalks” because they are after the diagonal, so at least with the Lunt there isn't that issue. But put them in an observatory setting, a big mount, lots of space and even binoviewing doesn’t look too out of place. Please don’t get me started on spending even more dosh.

Simon


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Re: Pros and cons of Lunt LS60THa and LS60MT

Post by Highbury Mark »

It’s taken me many years to find my ideal set up Simon. Though compared to most on this forum I’m a rookie - and no doubt there may be subtle improvements to be made to my kit in the future. The journey isn’t just part of the fun. It’s the whole fun. So enjoy every step along the way. You can’t do it all in one go. But compared to the cost of a solar etalon, a decent eyepiece is relatively modest, but it does make a huge difference. If the Pentax zoom is a step too far, the as Mark T says, TV Plossls are also supremely good for solar Ha.


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Re: Pros and cons of Lunt LS60THa and LS60MT

Post by SimonM »

Highbury Mark wrote: Wed Feb 03, 2021 1:59 am It’s taken me many years to find my ideal set up Simon. Though compared to most on this forum I’m a rookie - and no doubt there may be subtle improvements to be made to my kit in the future. The journey isn’t just part of the fun. It’s the whole fun. So enjoy every step along the way.
I was thinking about what else there is and perhaps have focused too much on the Lunt products. Is a 70mm SolarMax III Series with BF15 and double stack a creditable alternative for imaging and viewing? Both the etalons are front-mounted and are 60mm. It's a different version from the SolarMax II and I couldn't find out too much about it. The instructions are a bit confusing about tuning with two tilts and a rich tuner.

Simon


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Re: Pros and cons of Lunt LS60THa and LS60MT

Post by EGRAY_OBSERVATORY »

The reason why the two Etalons - seems a bit confusing with any SolarScope system with their instructions - is - that it is confusing at first and simply needs practice when one has the system set-up.

Practice only makes perfection - at the E.P. and long before any cameras are fitted/used....

Terry


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Re: Pros and cons of Lunt LS60THa and LS60MT

Post by EGRAY_OBSERVATORY »

In fact in addition to what I've just said, do not try a second Double Stack Filter in the first instance, as you will likely get a sever headache - unless you are exceedingly very lucky that they are both already tuned for whichever Ha image you are trying to view. Very unlikely...

You need to know how to tune the scopes own1st-Etalon first before "Walking before Running" - which I've said previously....

Terry


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Re: Pros and cons of Lunt LS60THa and LS60MT

Post by SimonM »

EGRAY_OBSERVATORY wrote: Thu Feb 04, 2021 12:05 am The reason why the two Etalons - seems a bit confusing with any SolarScope system with their instructions - is - that it is confusing at first and simply needs practice when one has the system set-up.
EGRAY_OBSERVATORY wrote: Thu Feb 04, 2021 12:15 am In fact in addition to what I've just said, do not try a second Double Stack Filter in the first instance, as you will likely get a severe headache - unless you are exceedingly very lucky that they are both already tuned for whichever Ha image you are trying to view. Very unlikely...
Thanks. What you have said is exactly what the kind Lunt folks said when I called them for advice. Using the single-stack for visual use for the first few times and then only going on to use the double-stack. Andy Lunt had some advice in one of his "notes" about not expecting too much and for the brain to learn to see what is out there. As he says, you can walk into a "dark" room and see nothing, but 10 minutes later, you can see and pick things up.

Since we are not used to only seeing a small subset of wavelengths of light it also takes a while to get used to this. It also doesn't help that we are exposed to "incredible" images that have been selected, stacked, colored, and generally manipulated before we see them.

Simon


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Re: Pros and cons of Lunt LS60THa and LS60MT

Post by EGRAY_OBSERVATORY »

My only reply to your last email, is simply that a night, "Eye Adaption" can take up to around 20-minutes to be fully accustomed to low-light after other lighting.
As far as I know that applies to everybody, but not to cameras of any sort. That will also apply to looking through E.P's.

What one can see on a PC-screen attached to a telescope-camera is not affected in the same way.

After imaging-captures on a PC - further being processed, will more often allow for further detail to be shown, which may well not show-up on an image before processing on screen. Some capture programs may well stack and do some processing during the initial-captures - if requested.

Terry


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Re: Pros and cons of Lunt LS60THa and LS60MT

Post by EGRAY_OBSERVATORY »

Well I guess you should by now have well-enough advice from some of us and LUNT etc., Simon,
to make decisions on exactly what you want and need, so please let us know when you have received all and up and running,
so eventually you may be able to send us some images of yours - to peruse over...

Best Wishes
Terry


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Re: Pros and cons of Lunt LS60THa and LS60MT

Post by SimonM »

Yes, 99% sure it will be the LS60MT. I have started to color some mono images from Alexandra’s posts in my new software package, Affinity and I have a macro for this setup. I will gain experience of getting video, stacking etc. with my WL setup, accepting there isn’t too much activity - and coloring them too. The scope lead time is 5-6 weeks for LS60MT, B1200 and R&P. Double-stack is 3-4 weeks away. Alexandra’s LS60 images are what I’m aiming to achieve eventually. Anything more for Visual and Imaging is quickly getting too expensive and not warranted (for me). So Visual first step and later a first h-alpha image (Easter 2021).


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Re: Pros and cons of Lunt LS60THa and LS60MT

Post by marktownley »

Have Lunt said what diameter the etalon is in the 60MT?

I couldn't find it on their website, but it does say the scope is compatible with binoviewers etc which implies decent focus travel.


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Re: Pros and cons of Lunt LS60THa and LS60MT

Post by SimonM »

marktownley wrote: Sun Feb 07, 2021 6:30 am Have Lunt said what diameter the etalon is in the 60MT?
The 60 front-mounted DS etalon has a 60mm clear aperture.
The 60 internal pressure-tuned etalon is smaller - probably half the size (or less).

In comparison, the 50 internal pressure-tuned etalon is a 26mm clear aperture.
Similarly, the 80 internal pressure-tuned etalons are smaller - to keep the cost down.

Since the cost is related to the area, going pressure-tuned internally also reduces the price by 2/3, judging by the options for the 100 DS etalons that are available as front-mounted tilt or internally pressure-tuned DS options. The 100 front-mounted DS also has four small (visible) pads/separators to stabilize it, since there are two surfaces, that have to be kept absolutely parallel to each other. Although large front-mounted DS is marginally better than the (more usable?) internal pressure-turned version, the cost is a big deterrent. There are also advantages to using internal pressure-tuned etalons.

The LS60MT is modular, so the scope comes apart and the internal pressure-tuned etalon can be removed:

LS60MT.jpg
LS60MT.jpg (66.8 KiB) Viewed 6291 times

There are six thumbscrews to replace six ordinary screws to make this easier.

There is the red 60mm front-mounted tilt DS (the best option, also fits LS60THa), and the white 50mm DS (not the best option, also fits LS50THa).

Without the internal etalon, the scope can be reassembled and used with a Solar Wedge for WL or a 2" diagonal for night time as 70mm f/6 ED doublet FPL 51 scope. There are also optional Calcium K Modules e.g. B1200 or B1800. There are 3 focuser options including R&P.

The LS80MT is modular, so the scope comes apart and the internal pressure-tuned etalon can be removed:

LS80MT.jpg
LS80MT.jpg (25.14 KiB) Viewed 6291 times
There is an 80-100 internal pressure-tuned etalon for DS on the LS80MT and LS100MT.

The LS80MT is modular, so the scope comes apart and the internal pressure-tuned etalon can be removed:

LS100MT.jpg
LS100MT.jpg (24.51 KiB) Viewed 6291 times

NB to use the LS80MT or LS100MT for WL or night time also requires an optional R&P focuser complete with an adapter.

The LS80MT is an f/7 ED doublet with FPL53 and LS100MT is an f/7 APO triplet with FPL53.

So plenty of choices.

Simon


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Re: Pros and cons of Lunt LS60THa and LS60MT

Post by dpastern »

marktownley wrote: Tue Feb 02, 2021 7:53 pm I have the Pentax zoom too - had it for years and never sold it on, which says something for me :lol: (normally if i'm not using it I sell it!)

Other than that I rate the TV plossls.
sorry to revive an old thread Mark - when I googled Pentax zoom I got 2 options:

Pentax SMC XF 6.5-19.5mm Zoom

Pentax SMC 8-24mm zoom.

I presume it's the former rather than the latter given the prices I can see online. But, can you confirm which Pentax zoom you are referring to?

Cheers,

Dave


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Re: Pros and cons of Lunt LS60THa and LS60MT

Post by marktownley »

Hi Dave,

Yes, is the former.

Mark


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Re: Pros and cons of Lunt LS60THa and LS60MT

Post by dpastern »

marktownley wrote: Wed Sep 01, 2021 9:00 am Hi Dave,

Yes, is the former.

Mark
Awesome, thank you Mark!

Cheers,

Dave


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