Looking for a new imx 174 Camera

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dragracingdan
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Looking for a new imx 174 Camera

Post by dragracingdan » Sun Feb 14, 2021 7:42 pm

Hello,

I currently use an ZWO asi174mm-cool (discontinued). The maximum frame rate I can get is 82 fps in full frame mode with Fire Capture. The advertised Max fps is 128 in 12bit mode. Not sure why I'm not getting the full advertised fps. Was thinking because the camera is fairly old and maybe the insides were outdated. Camera is probably 6-7 years old. I have 2 other ZWO cameras that get the full advertised fps with my laptop, the 1600 and 290 - main reason I'm thinking it's camera related.

Was looking at the Flir and Basler incarnations of the imx174 cameras. I've read on here that those 2 can use a separate power supply other than getting power from the usb3 and making the images less noisy.

Does anyone have experience with the Flir GS3-U3-23S6M-C camera? Anyone with experience with the Basler aca1920-155um camera? Looking to use these with Firecapture and hoping to get the full fps rates (162 fps in 10bit and 128 fps in 12bit)

Input and thoughts are appreciated. Best,
Dan



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Re: Looking for a new imx 174 Camera

Post by christian viladrich » Sun Feb 14, 2021 8:47 pm

I have been using the Basler 1920-155 camera for many years. This is an excellent solar and lunar camera. No need for an external power supply.
Many pictures there :
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Re: Looking for a new imx 174 Camera

Post by marktownley » Mon Feb 15, 2021 6:37 am

Hi Dan

I own the FLIR version of this camera, i'm happy with it! My money would be on the PC if you're not getting the full fps.

Mark


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Re: Looking for a new imx 174 Camera

Post by dragracingdan » Mon Feb 15, 2021 9:46 am

Thanks for the replies. Excellent images Christian!

Mark, glad to hear to get along with your Flir. I am getting the full advertised fps with 2 other cameras on the same laptop, which is why I'm thinking it's not the laptop. It has a SSD and 32gb memory. Are you getting the full 162fps in 10bit mode with your Flir? What are your PC specs?

Thanks,
Dan
Last edited by dragracingdan on Mon Feb 15, 2021 12:03 pm, edited 1 time in total.



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Re: Looking for a new imx 174 Camera

Post by marktownley » Mon Feb 15, 2021 11:03 am

dragracingdan wrote:
Mon Feb 15, 2021 9:46 am
Mark, glad to hear to get along with your Flir. I am getting the full advertised fps with 2 other cameras on the same laptop, which is why I'm thinking it's it the laptop. It has a SSD and 32gb memory. Are you getting the full 162fps in 10bit mode with your Flir? What are your PC specs?
Hi Dan.

I only ever use it in 8 bit mode, sometime i get the full frame rate, sometimes not, no obvious reason as to why it varies, maybe other processes running etc. My laptop is i7 8Gb ram, it has a SSD but I write direct to an external SSD, nothing special at all.

Are you powering the camera? You might find this helps the frame rate.

Mark


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Re: Looking for a new imx 174 Camera

Post by christian viladrich » Mon Feb 15, 2021 11:18 am

I think I have part of the explanation :-)
I've just checked my Basler 1920-155 :
- max 166 fps in 8 bit,
- max 82 fps in 12 bit.
It looks as if the 12 bit acquisition speed is the same time as a 16 bit acquisition speed.
It might depend on the acquisition software. Or the camera driver ? I don't know.


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Re: Looking for a new imx 174 Camera

Post by dragracingdan » Mon Feb 15, 2021 12:07 pm

I'll have to try my existing 174mm Cool in 8 bit and 10 bit to see what rates I'm getting.

According to ZWO, the 12bit full frame rate is 128fps and 164 in 10bit. In Firecapture, I only have a checkbox for 16bit on/off

I just use USB3 to power. I've never tried cooling the camera for solar. I'll add the 12vdc cord and see what happens

Thanks,
Dan



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Re: Looking for a new imx 174 Camera

Post by rsfoto » Tue Feb 16, 2021 6:14 pm

dragracingdan wrote:
Sun Feb 14, 2021 7:42 pm
Hello,

I currently use an ZWO asi174mm-cool (discontinued). The maximum frame rate I can get is 82 fps in full frame mode with Fire Capture. The advertised Max fps is 128 in 12bit mode. Not sure why I'm not getting the full advertised fps. Was thinking because the camera is fairly old and maybe the insides were outdated. Camera is probably 6-7 years old. I have 2 other ZWO cameras that get the full advertised fps with my laptop, the 1600 and 290 - main reason I'm thinking it's camera related.

Was looking at the Flir and Basler incarnations of the imx174 cameras. I've read on here that those 2 can use a separate power supply other than getting power from the usb3 and making the images less noisy.

Does anyone have experience with the Flir GS3-U3-23S6M-C camera? Anyone with experience with the Basler aca1920-155um camera? Looking to use these with Firecapture and hoping to get the full fps rates (162 fps in 10bit and 128 fps in 12bit)

Input and thoughts are appreciated. Best,
Dan
Hi Dan,

If you are using a USB 3.0 cable that is ok but sometimes the computer internals do not allow this high speeds.

You can do the math which would be 1936x1216x128x16 gives a rate of 4,821,352,448 bits per second and that is more or less 4.8 Gigabit per second or 603 Megabyte per second . Now also check the speed of the disk onto you want to save it. If you are getting 82 fps that is a rate of 1936x1216x82x16 = 3,088,678,912 or 3.0 Gigabit per second equals to 386 Megabye per second and that could be perhaps the limit of your hard drive or SSD drive ?

BTW the 5 Gigabit transfer rate is under 1000% perfect conditions. I once had a Desktop with USB 2.0 advertised in those times with 480 megabit and it was giving only 30 megabit and it was a an alleged good brand like Hewlett Packard. That was many many years ago ...


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Re: Looking for a new imx 174 Camera

Post by PDB » Tue Feb 16, 2021 7:02 pm

According to ZWO, the 12bit full frame rate is 128fps and 164 in 10bit. In Firecapture, I only have a checkbox for 16bit on/off
To get the highest speed and use the 10bit ADC you have to set the tick mark in 'High-Speed'. Without the tickmark, the ZWO cams operate in the highest bit-depth of the ADC. For the 174 that is 12 bit. (That tick can be found in the control tab using the 'More' button. You should also check USB limit there. The highest frame rates are only possible if that is at 100%. But it is not always possible to use 100% (depends on the real speed of your usb / processor combination)

Values are stored in 16 or 8 bit (depending on that 16bit tick). For 16 bit the pixel value is shifted by 16-BitDept of the camera. So the values will look like a 16 bit value (For 12 bit ADU max is not 4095 but 65520 (0xFFF0)
In 8 bit the higher bits are just cut off.


(And High-Speed together with 16-bit does not really make sense)

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Re: Looking for a new imx 174 Camera

Post by dragracingdan » Wed Feb 17, 2021 12:47 pm

Thanks for the replies. Haven't had a chance to do more testing yet.

What's the difference between using 10bit vs 12bit in capturing for solar?

Thanks again,
Dan



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Re: Looking for a new imx 174 Camera

Post by marktownley » Wed Feb 17, 2021 8:26 pm

dragracingdan wrote:
Wed Feb 17, 2021 12:47 pm
What's the difference between using 10bit vs 12bit in capturing for solar?
Personally, in terms of final image, nothing. I always shoot 8 bit now as I get more fps.


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Re: Looking for a new imx 174 Camera

Post by Carbon60 » Thu Feb 18, 2021 7:52 am

Hi,

I use a Balser acA1920-155um camera and, like Mark, use it in 8 bit mode. SSD/i7 laptop gives the full spec speed of 165 fps under regular imaging conditions.

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Re: Looking for a new imx 174 Camera

Post by PDB » Thu Feb 18, 2021 8:07 am

For Solar I always(with some exceptions) use my ASI178 in 16bit mode and 14bit ADC. On that camera (if your USB is good) there is no speed difference between 16 and 8 bit. (There is if you change to high-speed with 10bit ADC, but you loose dynamic range)

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Re: Looking for a new imx 174 Camera

Post by dragracingdan » Thu Feb 18, 2021 3:58 pm

Would be nice to have the option of capturing in other bit depths besides 8 and 16. You could balance out your frame rate and dynamic range to your liking.

Best,
Dan



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Re: Looking for a new imx 174 Camera

Post by dragracingdan » Mon Mar 01, 2021 10:21 pm

So I finally did some tests (and wrote the results down) Everything with usb traffic at 95. And in full frame (max) mode.

Unpowered (I have the 174mm Cool version)
16 bit mode checked 78-80fps
16 bit off, high speed off 122-124fps
16 bit off, high speed on 153-157fps

Powered with external 12vdc power there was no change in fps at all. Running high speed mode on with 16 bit mode on was the same as if high speed mode was off.

When I look at the capture files, both the 16 bit-off files say 8 bits. Is this really true? You get better fps with high speed mode on vs. off but they both say they are 8 bit files. Not sure what to make from all this except I assume I'm getting pretty close to the advertised fps rates. Is there any benefit in capturing with high speed mode off? Is the bit depth actually higher even those the .ser player is reading 8 bit?

Thanks,
Dan



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