Another ASI 178MM Question

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Another ASI 178MM Question

Post by rray6 »

Hello All,
I've been off my solar game for a while (a personal solar minimum) but have been slowly starting to get back into it. I was checking my camera situation and realized that my old ZWO ASI 174MM was weather-damaged due to a leaky roof. I want to replace it with the same or something better if there is such a thing. I've been looking at the ASI 178MM and would like some feedback from anyone who has used it. I realize that there are other topics skirting around this issue but I wanted to specifically ask about the 178. My main solar scopes are the Lunt LS80THA DSII (FR: 7, FL: 560 mm) and Wm Optics 132mm f/7 (FL: 925 mm) for white light and CaK.

Hope everyone is weathering the pandemic safely.

-Robert


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Lunt LS80 DSII B1800 f/7
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Stellarvue 80mm f/7 Raptor SVR80ST2
WO Z73ii f/5.9 APO
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PGR Grasshopper 3.0 (ICX687 - mono)
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Re: Another ASI 178MM Question

Post by EGRAY_OBSERVATORY »

Hi Robert,
https://astronomy.tools/calculators/field_of_view/ will show you the best camera to use with whatever scope and set-up you use..

I have two ASI 178Mm cams in use for Ha and Cak and no known problems to date. USB-3 capable, but will run on USB-2...

Cheers
Terry


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Re: Another ASI 178MM Question

Post by rray6 »

Terry,
Thanks so much. I knew of this Astronomy Tools Calculator but never used it much. After plugging in my scope data, I think I could get some good use from the ASI 178 for several of my scopes depending on my barlow use. In any case, I think it will be a good addition to my cameras. And that calculator will be very useful for camera selection for all my imaging projects. Thanks again!!!


Robert Ray
Last night as I lay in bed looking up at the stars in the sky, I thought to myself -- "Where the heck is the ceiling???"

www.redshift48.com
Lunt LS80 DSII B1800 f/7
WO 132mm f/7
Celestron 9.5 Edge HD f/10
Stellarvue 80mm f/7 Raptor SVR80ST2
WO Z73ii f/5.9 APO
Lunt CaK B1800 Filter and Baader Herschel Wedge (Photo)
PGR Grasshopper 3.0 (ICX687 - mono)
Player One Apollo M-Max IMX432
ZWO ASI178MM and ZWO ASI174MM with filter wheel
SBIG STT8300M
ZWO ASI2600MC-P
Canon 5D Mark IV and Canon Rebel T7i
AP 1200GTO (Permanent) and iOptron CEM60EC and CEM25EC Mounts
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Re: Another ASI 178MM Question

Post by AJamesB »

I generally like my 178mm, but I'm one of those that when using it for solar h-alpha I get fixed pattern noise from the sensor that limits how much sharpening I can do on small details. For this reason I'll soon be looking for a different camera to replace it, though I have no idea which one to get, lol.


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Re: Another ASI 178MM Question

Post by Merlin66 »

Hmmmm.
I've just ordered an ASI 178MM for my small(er) SHG.
I hadn't heard of any fixed pattern noise issues.
Do you have any sample images???


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Re: Another ASI 178MM Question

Post by rray6 »

Yes, I would like to see some samples of fixed pattern noise, too.

-Robert


Robert Ray
Last night as I lay in bed looking up at the stars in the sky, I thought to myself -- "Where the heck is the ceiling???"

www.redshift48.com
Lunt LS80 DSII B1800 f/7
WO 132mm f/7
Celestron 9.5 Edge HD f/10
Stellarvue 80mm f/7 Raptor SVR80ST2
WO Z73ii f/5.9 APO
Lunt CaK B1800 Filter and Baader Herschel Wedge (Photo)
PGR Grasshopper 3.0 (ICX687 - mono)
Player One Apollo M-Max IMX432
ZWO ASI178MM and ZWO ASI174MM with filter wheel
SBIG STT8300M
ZWO ASI2600MC-P
Canon 5D Mark IV and Canon Rebel T7i
AP 1200GTO (Permanent) and iOptron CEM60EC and CEM25EC Mounts
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Re: Another ASI 178MM Question

Post by Merlin66 »

I found the extensive thread on CN Re FPN with the ASI 178. It seems to be the same problem I experienced with an ASI 183MM. I returned it to ZWO and replaced with a ASI 1600MM.
https://www.cloudynights.com/topic/7004 ... a-imaging/
(Google ASI 178MM FPN and click the images tab for examples)


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Re: Another ASI 178MM Question

Post by rray6 »

Well, you have given me a lot to think about. Who said solar imaging was easy?


Robert Ray
Last night as I lay in bed looking up at the stars in the sky, I thought to myself -- "Where the heck is the ceiling???"

www.redshift48.com
Lunt LS80 DSII B1800 f/7
WO 132mm f/7
Celestron 9.5 Edge HD f/10
Stellarvue 80mm f/7 Raptor SVR80ST2
WO Z73ii f/5.9 APO
Lunt CaK B1800 Filter and Baader Herschel Wedge (Photo)
PGR Grasshopper 3.0 (ICX687 - mono)
Player One Apollo M-Max IMX432
ZWO ASI178MM and ZWO ASI174MM with filter wheel
SBIG STT8300M
ZWO ASI2600MC-P
Canon 5D Mark IV and Canon Rebel T7i
AP 1200GTO (Permanent) and iOptron CEM60EC and CEM25EC Mounts
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Re: Another ASI 178MM Question

Post by marktownley »

Hi Robert.

The 178 is suited for prime focus imaging with the setups you list, however, as others have said there can be a fixed pattern noise issue. For close up views a 174 chipped camera would be better.

Mark


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Re: Another ASI 178MM Question

Post by krakatoa1883 »

Nothing to be worried with, the FPN can be easily removed by taking a flat, actually any H alpha image would benefit from this irrespective of the camera used. Never seen the FPN on full disc images taken with my 178, though.


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Re: Another ASI 178MM Question

Post by rray6 »

Could it be that part of the problem (FPN) with the 178 is due to rolling vs global shutter?

-Robert


Robert Ray
Last night as I lay in bed looking up at the stars in the sky, I thought to myself -- "Where the heck is the ceiling???"

www.redshift48.com
Lunt LS80 DSII B1800 f/7
WO 132mm f/7
Celestron 9.5 Edge HD f/10
Stellarvue 80mm f/7 Raptor SVR80ST2
WO Z73ii f/5.9 APO
Lunt CaK B1800 Filter and Baader Herschel Wedge (Photo)
PGR Grasshopper 3.0 (ICX687 - mono)
Player One Apollo M-Max IMX432
ZWO ASI178MM and ZWO ASI174MM with filter wheel
SBIG STT8300M
ZWO ASI2600MC-P
Canon 5D Mark IV and Canon Rebel T7i
AP 1200GTO (Permanent) and iOptron CEM60EC and CEM25EC Mounts
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Re: Another ASI 178MM Question

Post by Merlin66 »

IMHO, I think it is due to the very small pixels and us trying to use it at 1x1 binning.
Doesn’t seem to be related to the shutter.


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Re: Another ASI 178MM Question

Post by thesmiths »

Merlin66 wrote: Fri Feb 19, 2021 4:27 am I found the extensive thread on CN Re FPN with the ASI 178. It seems to be the same problem I experienced with an ASI 183MM. I returned it to ZWO and replaced with a ASI 1600MM.
https://www.cloudynights.com/topic/7004 ... a-imaging/
(Google ASI 178MM FPN and click the images tab for examples)
Did you get the cooled or uncooled version of the 1600MM? I can seen the logic of getting the cooled version but it is quite a bit heavier (and a bit more expensive).


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Re: Another ASI 178MM Question

Post by Merlin66 »

No, I exchanged it for the non-cooled version.
I did in fact later buy a a cooled ASI 1600 as a "back up" to my ATiK 314L which I use for spectroscopy (I experienced two failures within six months!)
Luckily the latest ATiK314L has worked well - no issues, and I did find the cooled version just added weight with no immediate benefits for solar imaging.
I sold it on......
I now use the ASI 174 and two ASI 1600 for all my solar imaging.


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Re: Another ASI 178MM Question

Post by thesmiths »

Merlin66 wrote: Sun Mar 14, 2021 12:35 am I did in fact later buy a a cooled ASI 1600 as a "back up" to my ATiK 314L which I use for spectroscopy (I experienced two failures within six months!)
Luckily the latest ATiK314L has worked well - no issues, and I did find the cooled version just added weight with no immediate benefits for solar imaging. I now use the ASI 174 and two ASI 1600 for all my solar imaging.
With regard to spectroscopy, have you tried to use the ASI 1600 for that? I have used my ATIK 460EX, ASI 174 and Canon 100D for recent spectroscopy projects (see my recent posts on Zeeman effect). I found the ATIK 460EX to be rather slow (USB 2.0 and no gain adjustment). The ASI 174 is fast (USB 3.0 and gain adjustment) but with a large amount of amp glow that is annoying. The ASI 1600 is supposed to have less amp glow (it is apparently the most popular deep sky camera these days) and would seem to me to be a good spectroscopy camera. Christian Buil reviewed it to positive effect: http://www.astrosurf.com/buil/atik_vs_zwo/

Christian also mentions in another post: "for spectrography, the best sensor I use is the Sony IMX455 which equips the ASI6200MM camera … The ASI2600MM camera, in APS format, has similar performance, for a much lower price - so, a very good choice." http://www.astrosurf.com/buil/asi294mm.html

I ask this because I am thinking of selling the ATIK 460EX since I no longer see much advantage of the traditional CCD camera for either deep sky or spectroscopy. Any opinion on that?


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Re: Another ASI 178MM Question

Post by Merlin66 »

As the replacement ATiK continued to work OK, I never used the ASI 1600 cooled in earnest.
It was used for bench testing spectrographs and in a couple of Spectroheliographs. Worked OK for me.
Having said that, one of my senior members changed over to the ASI 1600 cooled on his Shelyak LhiresIII instrument. As far as I know, there hasn't been any issues.


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https://groups.io/g/astronomicalspectroscopy  
http://astronomicalspectroscopy.com
"Astronomical Spectroscopy for Amateurs" and
"Imaging Sunlight - using a digital spectroheliograph" - Springer
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