SolarMax II 60 imaging difficulties

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DeepSolar64
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SolarMax II 60 imaging difficulties

Post by DeepSolar64 »

All,
I don't know how many have noticed but I with the exception of only once I have never used my Coronado SolarMax II 60 telescope for imaging and it's not because I haven't tried. While my SMII90 does well for this purpose showing both disc and prominence detail well and evenly my 60 just well....doesn't. It does ok visually. I can see mottles, filaments, plages and prominences ok but when it comes to imaging them all I get is a blank disk. The proms also have to be really bright to even show up on the images. I have long suspected the scope may have issues since even visually it's confined to very low powers ( 16x-21.5x to 33x-50x if the object viewed is really bright. I see people here with PSTs and Lunt 50s that exceed this easily. Also I don't see much of a difference when I tune the internal etalon. I have even tried removing the peg to change it's position to try to improve it. The front DS etalon makes much more of a difference when I tune it. Anyway, to put it short, why can I see detail in the scope visually but fail to see it on the computer monitor or image it? The scope seems " visual only ".

The Coronado SMII60 would be nice to use for imaging if I can get it to work. It could do full discs without doing mosaics. The SMII90 cannot.

James
Last edited by DeepSolar64 on Thu Apr 15, 2021 5:12 am, edited 1 time in total.


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Meade Coronado SolarMax II 90 DS
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Astro-Tech AT72EDII with Altair solar wedge
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Losmandy AZ8 Alt/Az Mount
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Re: SolarMax II 60 imaging difficulties

Post by EGRAY_OBSERVATORY »

Hi James, if when you say "all I get is a blank disk.", suggests to me that the download program may require different settings, such as a smaller exposure-setting in "ms"...

If you have already tried different settings in whichever program you are using, then presumably if you are using the same camera as in the SMII90,
there may be an issue with the scope/Etalon, which I doubt as the EP says all OK with that scope.

Certainly with a smaller objective in the 60, exposure-settings will be a little different from the 90.

Please take an image as you have seen and post it on here, for others of us to see and suggest - as well ???

Regards
Terry


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Re: SolarMax II 60 imaging difficulties

Post by Merlin66 »

James,
I’d suggest removing the DS and backing off the tuning of the internal etalon.
Softly softly Re-tune the SM60II to get the best results. Using the pressure tuning moves the bandwidth towards the red wing, so adjust carefully.
When it gives good images add the DS and tilt it to give a good histogram.


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Re: SolarMax II 60 imaging difficulties

Post by Montana »

Give what Merlin says a try and take photos, show us the various stages as you tune so we see a sequence of images through tuning. It will help us get a better idea what is going on.

Alexandra


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Re: SolarMax II 60 imaging difficulties

Post by DeepSolar64 »

I'll post images from the SMII60 scope the next time I image using it. I'll see what I can do. Don't expect much....

Thanks for the advise everyone. It's got me stumped.


Lunt 8x32 SUNoculars
Orion 70mm Solar Telescope
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Meade Coronado SolarMax II 60 DS
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Re: SolarMax II 60 imaging difficulties

Post by marktownley »

Have you tried the blocking filter from your 90 in the 60 and see if it makes any difference?


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Re: SolarMax II 60 imaging difficulties

Post by DeepSolar64 »

No, but that's a great idea! I can't see anything wrong with the filter by just looking at it but switching them would tell me for sure if it's a rusty filter or not.

James


Lunt 8x32 SUNoculars
Orion 70mm Solar Telescope
Celestron AstroMaster Alt/Az Mount
Meade Coronado SolarMax II 60 DS
Meade Coronado SolarMax II 90 DS
Meade Coronado AZS Alt/Az Mount
Astro-Tech AT72EDII with Altair solar wedge
Celestron NexStar 102GT with Altair solar wedge
Losmandy AZ8 Alt/Az Mount
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Re: SolarMax II 60 imaging difficulties

Post by DeepSolar64 »

Though I did not image today I did try both blocking filters on the SMII60 visually. The one used on the SMII60 kept right up with the one I use on the SMII90. Looking at them I see no visible signs of rust. Both are BF15 filters.


Lunt 8x32 SUNoculars
Orion 70mm Solar Telescope
Celestron AstroMaster Alt/Az Mount
Meade Coronado SolarMax II 60 DS
Meade Coronado SolarMax II 90 DS
Meade Coronado AZS Alt/Az Mount
Astro-Tech AT72EDII with Altair solar wedge
Celestron NexStar 102GT with Altair solar wedge
Losmandy AZ8 Alt/Az Mount
Sky-Watcher AZGTI Alt-Az GoTo mount
Cameras: ZWO ASI178MM, PGR Grasshopper, PGR Flea
Lunt, Coronado, TeleVue, Orion and Meade eyepieces

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Re: SolarMax II 60 imaging difficulties

Post by c8er »

Did you get anywhere with this? I have very similar issues with my Solarmax II 60 with BF15 blocking filter, with it double stacked or single stacked. I can however put the DS unit from it on the front and blocking filter on the rear of a different but same focal length refractor and get a halfway decent image. It's got me well puzzled too. One problem I have is that I am trying to image with a largeish pixel ASI174MM camera not suited to the short focal length of the SM II 60, and I was thinking that might be the main reason for not seeing detail, but that works better (if not really well) with the DS unit put on a different OTA working a single stack unit.

Like you, I also see surface and proms details with it once properly tuned, single or double stacked, when I view through an eyepiece rather than using a camera.

It doesn't seem to me that it would likely be due to a faulty internal etalon, or surely it wouldn't show decent detail with an eyepiece, or could it be that but only showing up with imaging?

Cheers,
Chris M


Location: Bay of Plenty, New Zealand.
Solar Ha setup: Daystar Ha Quark, APM 140/980 refractor, Coronado SMII 60 DS BF15, McDougall Solar AutoGuider. Skywatcher ST80, Orion ED 80, WO ZS66 SD, and Nova 102mm f/6.5 achromat refractors.
Other scopes: C8,C11, ES Comet Hunter Mak-Newt, on 10Micron GM1000HPS, Celestron AVX, 8SE, CG-5 and Skywatcher Solarquest mounts.
Cameras: Celestron Neximage Burst Mono, ZWO ASI294MC Pro, AS120MC, ASI174MM, ASI290MC, Canon 60D, Celestron Nightscape CCD
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Re: SolarMax II 60 imaging difficulties

Post by marktownley »

What camera settings are you using Chris?

Can you post a picture that way we can see what you mean.


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Re: SolarMax II 60 imaging difficulties

Post by c8er »

marktownley wrote: Tue Nov 09, 2021 4:45 pm What camera settings are you using Chris?

Can you post a picture that way we can see what you mean.
Thanks Mark. From memory the ASI174MM camera would have been at a few to about 10 or 15msecs exposure, gamma 50 as recommended by ZWO, and a lowish to medium gain, nothing particularly different to the camera settings when I get a better result with just the DS external unit (working alone as a single stack unit mounted externally in front of the objective) and BF on a different refractor of the same 400mm focal length as the SM II 60, a basic ST80.

It really puzzles me that I can get a decently detailed and sharp visual view showing good surface details and proms with an eyepiece through the SMII 60, but then when I put the 174 camera on its an awful mushy result showing very little detail (I have years of solar ha imaging experience before this with a quark and am happy I had the internal etalon tuned ok and on band, and I'm sure focus etc was ok - although difficult to get good focus since the camera view is so lacking in detail/definition - I did focus at gamma 1 which shows more detail, but then back to gamma 50 for capture as recommended by ZWO).

The 174 camera works fine on both short and longer focal length refractors (from f/5 400mm to f/7 980mm) with a quark with the quark's built in 4.2x barlow. If I had another mono cam with smaller pixels I would try that on the SMII 60, but I don't as yet. hence my other query in the hardware section of forum about ideas for a short focal length suitable small pixel camera for single image full disk imaging without needing to do mosaics, which is mainly what I want to use the SMII 60 for. For close up proms or surface detail images I'd normally use the quark on a larger 140/980 refractor.

I'll see if I have some of the old data that shows this issue, or get some new data to show the problem. Might take a week or more to get that.

Cheers,
Chris M


Location: Bay of Plenty, New Zealand.
Solar Ha setup: Daystar Ha Quark, APM 140/980 refractor, Coronado SMII 60 DS BF15, McDougall Solar AutoGuider. Skywatcher ST80, Orion ED 80, WO ZS66 SD, and Nova 102mm f/6.5 achromat refractors.
Other scopes: C8,C11, ES Comet Hunter Mak-Newt, on 10Micron GM1000HPS, Celestron AVX, 8SE, CG-5 and Skywatcher Solarquest mounts.
Cameras: Celestron Neximage Burst Mono, ZWO ASI294MC Pro, AS120MC, ASI174MM, ASI290MC, Canon 60D, Celestron Nightscape CCD
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Re: SolarMax II 60 imaging difficulties

Post by marktownley »

Hi Chris.

A 174 running on the f6(?) SM60 is going to give a ridiculously undersampled image. Under sampling loses effective resolution, so, maybe this is what you are seeing.

I think some images are best way forward in diagnosis.

What is the SM60 scope like on it's own in single stack?

Mark


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Re: SolarMax II 60 imaging difficulties

Post by DeepSolar64 »

I did reset, move the tuning peg on the internal etalon and that helped some. I actually haven't tried to image with it in awhile. It does ok for visual though. It's certainly a low power full disk scope.


Lunt 8x32 SUNoculars
Orion 70mm Solar Telescope
Celestron AstroMaster Alt/Az Mount
Meade Coronado SolarMax II 60 DS
Meade Coronado SolarMax II 90 DS
Meade Coronado AZS Alt/Az Mount
Astro-Tech AT72EDII with Altair solar wedge
Celestron NexStar 102GT with Altair solar wedge
Losmandy AZ8 Alt/Az Mount
Sky-Watcher AZGTI Alt-Az GoTo mount
Cameras: ZWO ASI178MM, PGR Grasshopper, PGR Flea
Lunt, Coronado, TeleVue, Orion and Meade eyepieces

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