Lunt 60 Pressure tuning question(s)

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pauljones

Lunt 60 Pressure tuning question(s)

Post by pauljones »

I've been out three times now with my new Lunt 60, pressure tuner model. The first time was amazing. Great detail, easy operation, everything you could ask for. In short order, I had tuned the instrument such that abundant detail was visible on the disk.

The next two times have been disappointing. The second time, I had a lot of trouble getting detail to pop out and the third time I actually couldn't, visually. I could focus - the disk edge and sunspots were focused softly but focused. But no matter what I did with the tuner knob, no H-a detail emerged. I released the pressure and re-tightened. I wound back and forth slowly. Nothing. However, hooking up a camera and lowering gamma, I could get some detail to emerge, though it was far from a pleasing image.


My questions:

1) How large an effect will seeing have on this? More in a moment.

2) How large an effect will temperature have? PV = nRT, after all.

3) How important is temperature equilibration?

4) Should the pressure be released after each observing session? The manual says no but manuals often don't have the best practices, in my opinion.


Now, my sense is that I have nothing to worry about. In my last session, the seeing was atrocious and, I assume, that explains the difficulty in tuning (and focusing...or really seeing much of anything). I also assume significant changes may need to be made on the tuner with large differences in temperature.

But I'm coming up on 30 days and just wonder if it the scope is behaving as expected. I sort of think yes, but the little paranoid gland deep in my brain begs me to ask.

Is it possible that the seeing can be bad enough to render H-a detail invisible in a properly functioning scope?

Thanks.


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Re: Lunt 60 Pressure tuning question(s)

Post by robert »


My questions:
1) How large an effect will seeing have on this? More in a moment.
Massive effect
2) How large an effect will temperature have? PV = nRT, after all.
Very little
3) How important is temperature equilibration?
Not important
4) Should the pressure be released after each observing session? The manual says no but manuals often don't have the best practices, in my opinion.
Makes no difference


My answers to your questions from my experience with a Lunt 60 PT.

Robert


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Re: Lunt 60 Pressure tuning question(s)

Post by swisswalter »

Hi Paul

my experience is a little bit different:

My questions:

1) How large an effect will seeing have on this? More in a moment.
a lot but not as baad that you can't see Ha details

2) How large an effect will temperature have? PV = nRT, after all.
not very much

3) How important is temperature equilibration?
important, you can watch the improvement

4) Should the pressure be released after each observing session? The manual says no but manuals often don't have the best practices, in my opinion.

yes , it should be released before each new session


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Re: Lunt 60 Pressure tuning question(s)

Post by Robin »

I don't think that these pressure tuners are the be all and end all of tuning ,not as easy as they are made out to be, I have a problem in obtaining an even illumination over the frame, it is always overexposed at some part of the frame view. The seeing has to be also very good to get any reasonable results, maybe I am asking too much of the equipment or aiming too high


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Re: Lunt 60 Pressure tuning question(s)

Post by pauljones »

Thanks for your thoughts and comments.

It had to have been the seeing as I had a very nice outing today and yesterday. I am still getting used to the PT, but I could see a lot of detail these last two days.


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Re: Lunt 60 Pressure tuning question(s)

Post by Derek Klepp »

I hardly touch my PT at all just my two bobs worth.


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Re: Lunt 60 Pressure tuning question(s)

Post by mattwastell »

Hi Paul
You seem to have many of your questions answered.
Seeing is king. I have had no issues with temperature variations at all. I PT once every 4th or 5th session.
Enjoy!


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Re: Lunt 60 Pressure tuning question(s)

Post by mwirths »

Paul,

I just recently got a new Lunt 152. The first time I used it I like you saw abundant Ha detail (after taking the tuner off the equalize pressure and then turn it in to tune in the Ha band) But each subsequent time I could not tune it in at all, even in good seeing!

After talking to Rikki and Alan at Lunt a few times they felt that probably the O-rings in the tuner were not holding pressure any longer. Perhaps that has happened to you too? Replacing the O-rings is an easy fix.

take care

Mike


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Re: Lunt 60 Pressure tuning question(s)

Post by MapleRidge »

Paul...

If you manage to get the PT tuned and there is a leak in the PT, it will drift off band...speed will depend up how bad the leak is.

If you tune it and leave it for some time and the tuning appears to have changed slow turn the PT cap to compress and see if it returns to where you had it set before...if this fixed the view then a leak is pretty much the cause.

If adjusting the focus makes the difference you may be fighting the seeing...focus looks good, but suddenly the seeing changes (to the better or worse) and you wind up changing focus.

My DSII unit for the LS80 developed a leak inside the body, so it is currently at Lunt being serviced. If would leak off in less than a minute...so quite obvious.

Hope you get yours up and running they way it should.

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Re: Lunt 60 Pressure tuning question(s)

Post by pauljones »

Thanks all. I see I haven't commented since the earlier comments and meant to. Things aren't as bad as it seemed when I first posted. I had a day of truly horrific seeing to the point I couldn't really see anything. I've since had better seeing and am relatively happy.

However, I think there is a chance that I'm seeing leak type behavior described by Mike. I'm going to test this more specifically next chance (perhaps this weekend). I'd be relieved if it was as simple a fix as swapping O-rings. I'd be more relieved if it just isn't doing it. :)

But the scope provides a good image in good seeing. Now I'm thinking of double stacking. When will it end?


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Re: Lunt 60 Pressure tuning question(s)

Post by swisswalter »

Hi Paul

there is no end to the story ;-)


First get good results with the existing gear, then move on. One step after the other, it saves you money


Only stardust in the wind, some fine and some less fine scopes, filters and adapters as well. Switzerland 47 N, 9 E, in the heart of EUROPE :)

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Re: Lunt 60 Pressure tuning question(s)

Post by pauljones »

I think it works fine in single-stack mode. I really do think the problem I encountered, which prompted my original post, was really bad seeing. I've had a number of good days since. And before. I want to test the leak possibility as I never do quite find the ideal tuning but I think that is still a matter of inexperience. However, I didn't even know it was possible so I simply want to check.

Anyway, enough about equipment. Here is the sun. This was shot about a week before the original post. So, the scope works fine when the conditions are good.




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Re: Lunt 60 Pressure tuning question(s)

Post by marktownley »

looks good!


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Re: Lunt 60 Pressure tuning question(s)

Post by swisswalter »

Hi Paul

indeed a fine mosaic. Maybe there is a gost at 5 o'clock


Only stardust in the wind, some fine and some less fine scopes, filters and adapters as well. Switzerland 47 N, 9 E, in the heart of EUROPE :)

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Re: Lunt 60 Pressure tuning question(s)

Post by Astrodan »

My LS60 would drift of tune .I believe the pressure leaked out the large threads on the tuner. I wraped the thread with gas pipe (White tape) and the Scope has been perfect .Clear Sky's Dan


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Re: Lunt 60 Pressure tuning question(s)

Post by solarchat »

Hey Dan,

Rikki will send you a set of free replacement rings if you ask.


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Re: Lunt 60 Pressure tuning question(s)

Post by sunshine »

An answer for pauljones question 4.

I bought a Lunt LS60THa Pressure Tuned scope last month and the manual that came with it should be up to date .
I don't know if the manual is a Lunt production or produced by the European Distributor.
It has the name of Lunt-Solar-Systems- Exclusive European Distributors, Optus GmbH, Germany.
It is only two sheets of A4 .
A line on page three, in the second paragraph, Tuning reads........


" When not in use we recommend that you release the pressure by simply backing off the black handle from the cylinder body."



I think it makes sense to take the strain off the seals when not in use.
Long term trapped wind is no good for people or telescopes. ;)


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Re: Lunt 60 Pressure tuning question(s)

Post by swisswalter »

Hi sunshine and Paul

I had never a problem letting the etalon under pressure


Only stardust in the wind, some fine and some less fine scopes, filters and adapters as well. Switzerland 47 N, 9 E, in the heart of EUROPE :)

from 7 am - 7 pm http://www.nanosys.ch

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Re: Lunt 60 Pressure tuning question(s)

Post by sunshine »

I thought I would have a look at the American and European Lunt Websites for their recommendations about releasing the pressure.
At least one of the sites had links to the manuals about a month ago.
Unfortunately it looks as though they have withdrawn or omitted the links.
It would have been nice to have had the official line from those in the know.

Cheers all.


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Re: Lunt 60 Pressure tuning question(s)

Post by solarchat »

I don't work for Lunt but I release and depressurize the cylinder every time I set it up and I store the scopes with the cylinder in whatever position I was using it in.
The maximum change is only 3 psi from minimum to maximum so I don't think there is any danger of damaging seals by leaving it pressurized.

I own every scope Lunt makes except the 230mm and I have never had a cylinder go bad.


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Re: Lunt 60 Pressure tuning question(s)

Post by Bill Edelen »

I almost never repressueise. I only do this if my adjustment range changes.Ricci said this is ok.I once had to store my sope for 4 months and when I took it out of case it needed no tuning adjustments. ...just my 2¢


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Re: Lunt 60 Pressure tuning question(s)

Post by _Zakalwe »

Personally I always wind out the tuner when I pack it away. No reason or science.
I've also smeared a wee dab of silicon grease on the O-Rings (red rubber grease would work as well) as they were a bit dry leaving the factory. And a slight smar of lithium grease on the main regulator threads..the brass had a fair bit of "stiction" in it and this helped no end.


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Re: Lunt 60 Pressure tuning question(s)

Post by ForrestLockhart »

I had problems such as you have had when my LS60 arrived.
I wasn't happy with the view through the scope. I griped and moaned until I finally dropped it off at Lunt in Tucson while on vacation. I don't know what Brian did in the 30 minutes he had the scope, but the effect was dramatic... I think. Some friends say it was always good, others agree that something good happened in Tucson.
The Head Nerd recommended that the tuner be backed off when not in use, so I do that.
Most folks don't think temps have an effect on seeing. My scope seems to work better if I leave it out in the Sun for a few minutes before observing. Any mechanical reason? Nope. It just seems to work better that way.
A dab of silicone grease seemed to make the tuner smoother. So I check that once in a while.
However, I would bet my old OIII filter that you have simply been a victim of bad thermal effects, i.e. bad seeing.
At 8:00 this morning the solar disk was a maze of detail, but by 11:00 I could hardly make out even moderate features that had been prominent earlier. If that view was the best the scope would do, I would have dumped it soon after I received it. But I think it was Mark and SwissWalter who told me to relax, learn the quirks of daytime observing and keep at it. I followed their sound advice. Glad I did.
By the way, nice image you did. Congrats.
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Re: Lunt 60 Pressure tuning question(s)

Post by madrobin »

Hi Guys,

I am having the same trouble with my beloved Lunt Ha 60 PT. It used to work well. I moved house (early last year) so couldn't use it for two summers.

Took it out recently (to get ready to watch the Mercury transit), I noticed some fungus or something smearing the B1200. Thankfully Bresser who are the european distributors for Lunt sent me a replacement filter with instructions (on how to replace this small piece of glass) from Faye Roman at Lunt. Very helpful. Can focus it very well. But I can't see the chromo or the Prominences.

Still no luck with the scope though.

I have unscrewed the PT completely and put it back on. when I start screwing it in somewhere near the middle, I feel the pressure tuner is resisting the turns as if the pressure is building up.

Tried this several times with no luck.

However the weather in UK at this time of the year is only good for cloud watchers. I had about 2 hours of hazy sunshine low in the sky last couple of days. Hazy meaning it's not blue sky but a wafer thin cloud cover surrounds the Sun. I have been told by Lunt that this shouldn't be an obstacle to see prominences etc. I am not having any luck.

Any thoughts of my fellow Lunt owners here about my plight would be gratefully received.

Thanks.


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Re: Lunt 60 Pressure tuning question(s)

Post by hopskipson »

I’m having a similar problem with my brand new Lunt 60 pt. I’m in contact with Faye trying to work it out. I checked the blocking filter and it looks fine to me. Unscrewed the pt but still no details when I pressurized it again. I’ll keep you posted if we figure it out.


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Re: Lunt 60 Pressure tuning question(s)

Post by marktownley »

The sun really is totally blank at the moment, look for a day when there are some proms to aim at to get the tuning close to where it should be...


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Re: Lunt 60 Pressure tuning question(s)

Post by hopskipson »

Thanks Mark for the assurance. I guess since I cut my teeth on the Quark which seems so easy to use and the higher magnification brings out more details ,I was expecting similar results. I also tried out a pst mod with a ST80 at f/10 and was able to tell when the sweet spot was on band. So I have some experience with what to expect.
I still haven’t had a chance to test it out but Faye is sending out some new O-rings. I’m keeping my fingers crossed!


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Re: Lunt 60 Pressure tuning question(s)

Post by Gert »

Hello All,

I would like to add my own method of setting / checking the tuner. I mostly work with a camera (ASI174) and a laptop where in the recording software I can see the histogram in real-time. Now we know the H-Alpha spectral line in the Sun is an absorption line. As the tuner sweeps the transmission of the etalon across the wavelength axis and we cross the H-Alpha line we will notice the image gets darker (as we enter the absorption line) reach a minimum (at center) and get brighter as we exit the line. This can be nicely seen in the histogram. So I twist the tuner knob until the histogram is at its lowest. That's the spot when the talon is centered to the middle of the H-Alpha line. Twisting the knob back/forth it is quite easy to find the best spot. Over time (>1hrs) there might be change. I.e. when I re-do the knob-twisting I find a better spot as guided by the histogram that is a little turn away. Once that is set I might run some images with the camera, and when I like later remove the camera for visual observation. If the contrast setting of the camera is high it becomes obvious that the filter is not homogeneous. There will be areas of different detail and contrast across the Sun's disk. The contrast of the camera can be very harsh, and I can make any tunable scope look bad with it. Visually the change is much less pronounced. Looking for a filtered solar-scope that does not have such variations would imply a 10x price uplift. So I'm OK to live with the quality I get.

Clear Skies,
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Re: Lunt 60 Pressure tuning question(s)

Post by hopskipson »

Just an update, my brand new scope had a decontacted etalon that was replaced. It’s on its way back to me. I’m just a little concerned with shipping across the country again. Fingers crossed 🤞.


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Re: Lunt 60 Pressure tuning question(s)

Post by marktownley »

Fingers crossed indeed!


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Re: Lunt 60 Pressure tuning question(s)

Post by hopskipson »

Here's the latest update on my LS60:

I received my scope last week and have it out now. The weather is not optimal 42*F and very windy with many clouds and only a few breaks of sun. I did wrap a dew strap around the blocking filter and a dish towel around that to try to keep it warm. The limited time out I can see a nice sized prom and some surface detail but nothing significant. Can't see the AR. Looked on Gong and the AR seems to be fading a bit. There doesn't seem to be much contrast with this scope. I would say that the scope is fixed but I'm hoping that the weather is inhibiting optimal performance. I find the pressure tuner to be kind of clumsy to get proper tuning. It seems to be really hard to get the entire disk on band. I know a lot of people knock the Quark, but I find the tuning to be much easier. Just find the proper setting and leave it alone. Also since I need a dew heater to keep the blocking filter warm, I need some external power source. Maybe it is my lack of experience with this system and the conditions that are making it extremely uncomfortable to be out today.


Does anyone have suggestions or comments on technique? I tried a ND filter but that didn't help. Does anyone use any other filters or polarizing filters to increase contrast?


Thanks


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Re: Lunt 60 Pressure tuning question(s)

Post by marktownley »

Things sound fairly normal tbh - you're observing a quiet sun in the dead of winter. Give it a month or two, the sun will be higher and we should have a bit more activity fingers crossed. Call me a 'fair weather' solar astronomer but I only tend to head out when the weather is better. Really, the only proper way to increase contrast is to double stack, or, a blanket over the head to cut out extraneous light can help to.

Mark


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Re: Lunt 60 Pressure tuning question(s)

Post by hopskipson »

Thanks Mark.
Brought the blocking filter inside and let it warm up with the dew heater on. About 2 hours later even with lousy seeing the contrast was much better. Was just able to make out the AR and a small filament. I wouldn't normally be out on a day like this, but with the scope just coming back from repair I wanted to put my mind at ease that it was working.


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Re: Lunt 60 Pressure tuning question(s)

Post by daslolo »

ForrestLockhart wrote: Fri Jul 11, 2014 9:28 pm I don't know what Brian did in the 30 minutes he had the scope, but the effect was dramatic... I think. Some friends say it was always good, others agree that something good happened in Tucson.
Call Brian and ask him! This knowledge is gold. Or they just put it in a machine that costs 1 million dollar :D


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Re: Lunt 60 Pressure tuning question(s)

Post by shetowl2020 »

Pressure tuning seems a nightmare. You pay a lot of money for a scope hoping it will last a long time and there seems to be problems within a short time


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Re: Lunt 60 Pressure tuning question(s)

Post by robert »

It is not a nightmare. It really works well and allows you to get a large area tuned equally without the banding which is unavoidable using tilt tuning because of the geometry.

The best technology for evenly filtered full disk images in my expeience.

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Re: Lunt 60 Pressure tuning question(s)

Post by marktownley »

shetowl2020 wrote: Sat Apr 25, 2020 9:06 pm Pressure tuning seems a nightmare. You pay a lot of money for a scope hoping it will last a long time and there seems to be problems within a short time
Why whats the problems you're having?


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Re: Lunt 60 Pressure tuning question(s)

Post by shetowl2020 »

Not got a scope yet, many people have said they have to replace the seals frequently even after a short time


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Re: Lunt 60 Pressure tuning question(s)

Post by JochenM »

I've owned my LS50 (pressure tuned) for about 10 months or so now. I honestly can't see how those seals (I assume you're referring to the rubber o-ring(s) inside the pressure tuner knob?) could even wear (quickly). And hypothetically, even if you would have to replace them every few years or so; it's literally a small rubber o-ring costing only a few bucks (and really easy to replace).

So bottomline, I wouldn't worry about it.


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