Compact Littrow Spectrohelioscope - Any interest in an "IKEA" Kit???

VENDORS WELCOME! Please, only solar equipment.
User avatar
Merlin66
Librarian
Librarian
Posts: 3069
Joined: Tue Dec 13, 2011 1:23 pm
Location: St Leonards, Australia
Contact:

Compact Littrow Spectrohelioscope - Any interest in an "IKEA" Kit???

Post by Merlin66 » Wed May 09, 2012 7:05 am

I'm currently in the middle of a batch build of twenty Spectra-L200 spectroscopes.
Seeing all the components lying around and thinking about all the recent discussion on expensive filters and bandwiths, made me investitage the possiblity of making a spectrohelioscope Kit.
This would have everything you need, just "assemble and play".
It would have to be based on a f10 system. Reflective stainless steel entrance slit; the reflective heat being directed to a "dump" and force ventilated with a fan.
A littrow design with either a 1200 or 2400 l/mm fully adjustable (from 380nm to NIR) would be compact enough to sit on most large achromats. No ERF required.No RA drive required...just "point and shoot"
From my SimSpec V4 spreadsheet the 1200 grating should give a resolution of 0.38A (Ha) and 0.4A (CaK), the 2400 should give 0.13A (Ha) and 0.18A (CaK)
The software for processing the images is already available (for XP - not 100% sure about Win7)

Would there be any real interest in such a project???
Comments/ questions?
"Astronomical Spectroscopy - The Final Frontier" - to boldly go where few amateurs have gone before
https://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/ast ... scopy/info
"Astronomical Spectroscopy for Amateurs" and
"Imaging Sunlight - using a digital spectroheliograph" - Springer

User avatar
marktownley
Librarian
Librarian
Posts: 23668
Joined: Tue Oct 18, 2011 5:27 pm
Location: Brierley Hills, UK
Contact:

Re: Compact Littrow Spectrohelioscope - Any interest in an "IKEA" Kit???

Post by marktownley » Wed May 09, 2012 11:18 am

Yes, definitely! How much you anticipate the kit costing?

I know nothing at all really about spectrohelioscopes so excuse if sounds daft? Would this be for visual or imaging or both?
Image
http://brierleyhillsolar.blogspot.co.uk/
Solar images, a collection of all the most up to date live solar data on the web, imaging & processing tutorials - please take a look!

User avatar
Merlin66
Librarian
Librarian
Posts: 3069
Joined: Tue Dec 13, 2011 1:23 pm
Location: St Leonards, Australia
Contact:

Re: Compact Littrow Spectrohelioscope - Any interest in an "IKEA" Kit???

Post by Merlin66 » Wed May 09, 2012 11:53 am

I'll cost it up over the next few days, but based on the Spectra-L200 Kit, I'd say around $750.
It's possible to use it visually as a very high resolution solar spectroscope - the FOV would probably be 120A wide. Use the Liege Solar spectrum website to get an idea of the coverage and resolution.
As a spectrohelioscope it is definately for video imaging - DMK series (or equivalent). You need to "reconstruct" the solar image from the Ha absorption line detail...
"Astronomical Spectroscopy - The Final Frontier" - to boldly go where few amateurs have gone before
https://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/ast ... scopy/info
"Astronomical Spectroscopy for Amateurs" and
"Imaging Sunlight - using a digital spectroheliograph" - Springer

User avatar
solarchat
Site Admin
Site Admin
Posts: 3947
Joined: Sat Feb 01, 2014 3:10 pm
Location: Atlanta, GA USA
Contact:

Re: Compact Littrow Spectrohelioscope - Any interest in an "IKEA" Kit???

Post by solarchat » Wed May 09, 2012 12:39 pm

Hey Merlin,

All those specs are making my head hurt. I have been interested in adding a spectroscope to my outreach ensemble, though. I have been sweet talking that guy from Shellyac for years and he is unwilling to go any lower on retail and I just cant justify $3000 for a spectrum. I did buy a couple hand held ones last year at NEAF.

I would love to add something to one of my side by side mounts that showed the spectral lines of sunlight to my students but it would have to be robust and easy to put up, take down and adjust. Is this what you are talking about or is this more involved than just putting it on a mount or tripod and looking at emission lines?
Stephen W. Ramsden
Atlanta, GA USA
Founder/Director Charlie Bates Solar Astronomy Project
http://www.solarastronomy.org

User avatar
Merlin66
Librarian
Librarian
Posts: 3069
Joined: Tue Dec 13, 2011 1:23 pm
Location: St Leonards, Australia
Contact:

Re: Compact Littrow Spectrohelioscope - Any interest in an "IKEA" Kit???

Post by Merlin66 » Wed May 09, 2012 12:51 pm

Stephen,
You're not alone!
I have about 400 members on my yahoo group "astronomical_spectroscopy" most of whom have had the same concern.
The commercial units are very good (Baader Dados, Shelyak LISA/LhiresIII and the SBIG DDS7/SGS)but very pricy.
About three years ago I started building the Spectra-L200 Kit specifically to address this issue. It's only available to the group members who do not already own a commercial spectroscope and costs around $950 -takes a weekend to paint and assemble.

The proposed Spectrohelioscope would not be suitable for your outreach programs, but a Spectra-L200 fitted with a 300 l/mm would be very good. Could be fitted with a 20mm eyepiece and set up on a sturdy photographic tripod (no telescope)...this would show the whole solar spectrum and resolve the Ca H&K, G band, Mg triplet, Na doublet and show the Ha and atmospheric absorption lines..
"Astronomical Spectroscopy - The Final Frontier" - to boldly go where few amateurs have gone before
https://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/ast ... scopy/info
"Astronomical Spectroscopy for Amateurs" and
"Imaging Sunlight - using a digital spectroheliograph" - Springer

User avatar
solarchat
Site Admin
Site Admin
Posts: 3947
Joined: Sat Feb 01, 2014 3:10 pm
Location: Atlanta, GA USA
Contact:

Re: Compact Littrow Spectrohelioscope - Any interest in an "IKEA" Kit???

Post by solarchat » Wed May 09, 2012 12:59 pm

is it possible to get one assembled shipped to me? I have never owned a spectroscope before and have no idea how to use them. But Im eager!
Stephen W. Ramsden
Atlanta, GA USA
Founder/Director Charlie Bates Solar Astronomy Project
http://www.solarastronomy.org

User avatar
Merlin66
Librarian
Librarian
Posts: 3069
Joined: Tue Dec 13, 2011 1:23 pm
Location: St Leonards, Australia
Contact:

Re: Compact Littrow Spectrohelioscope - Any interest in an "IKEA" Kit???

Post by Merlin66 » Wed May 09, 2012 1:02 pm

Sorry mate, they are only available to members as an "IKEA" Kit.
(The idea is - as you assemble it you gain a better understanding of how it works)
"Astronomical Spectroscopy - The Final Frontier" - to boldly go where few amateurs have gone before
https://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/ast ... scopy/info
"Astronomical Spectroscopy for Amateurs" and
"Imaging Sunlight - using a digital spectroheliograph" - Springer

User avatar
solarchat
Site Admin
Site Admin
Posts: 3947
Joined: Sat Feb 01, 2014 3:10 pm
Location: Atlanta, GA USA
Contact:

Re: Compact Littrow Spectrohelioscope - Any interest in an "IKEA" Kit???

Post by solarchat » Wed May 09, 2012 1:15 pm

well, OK then. Back to the search! Maybe Ill trade the Shellyac guy a comparable Lunt solarscope for one or something. He's French though so he has no idea what I am talking about most of the time.
Stephen W. Ramsden
Atlanta, GA USA
Founder/Director Charlie Bates Solar Astronomy Project
http://www.solarastronomy.org

User avatar
solarchat
Site Admin
Site Admin
Posts: 3947
Joined: Sat Feb 01, 2014 3:10 pm
Location: Atlanta, GA USA
Contact:

Re: Compact Littrow Spectrohelioscope - Any interest in an "IKEA" Kit???

Post by solarchat » Wed May 09, 2012 1:18 pm

By the way, do you want another conference just for spectroscopy that you and your nerdy friends can use for whatever purpose you want? I would love to have more info on that over here. What should it be called?
Stephen W. Ramsden
Atlanta, GA USA
Founder/Director Charlie Bates Solar Astronomy Project
http://www.solarastronomy.org

User avatar
Merlin66
Librarian
Librarian
Posts: 3069
Joined: Tue Dec 13, 2011 1:23 pm
Location: St Leonards, Australia
Contact:

Re: Compact Littrow Spectrohelioscope - Any interest in an "IKEA" Kit???

Post by Merlin66 » Wed May 09, 2012 1:25 pm

Stephen,
Thanks for the offer...
I'd be happy just putting any "technical" stuff under the Solar telescope section..
(We should rename it to something like" Solar instruments" - there needs to be an area for general equipment - telescopes - standard filters - cameras not just for the guys who do filter/ PST/Lunt mods. Maybe split it into two sections?)
What do you think?
"Astronomical Spectroscopy - The Final Frontier" - to boldly go where few amateurs have gone before
https://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/ast ... scopy/info
"Astronomical Spectroscopy for Amateurs" and
"Imaging Sunlight - using a digital spectroheliograph" - Springer

User avatar
solarchat
Site Admin
Site Admin
Posts: 3947
Joined: Sat Feb 01, 2014 3:10 pm
Location: Atlanta, GA USA
Contact:

Re: Compact Littrow Spectrohelioscope - Any interest in an "IKEA" Kit???

Post by solarchat » Wed May 09, 2012 1:30 pm

I didnt know we had a "Solar Telescope" section.:)

Do you think that "Solar Instruments" is the way to go or "Solar Spectroscopy" I dont want a buch of different sections and subsections like cloudy nights but I think that something more is needed to address the valuable contributions being done with amateur radio (Thomas Ashcraft) and spectroscopy (you)
Stephen W. Ramsden
Atlanta, GA USA
Founder/Director Charlie Bates Solar Astronomy Project
http://www.solarastronomy.org

User avatar
Merlin66
Librarian
Librarian
Posts: 3069
Joined: Tue Dec 13, 2011 1:23 pm
Location: St Leonards, Australia
Contact:

Re: Compact Littrow Spectrohelioscope - Any interest in an "IKEA" Kit???

Post by Merlin66 » Wed May 09, 2012 1:38 pm

Stephen,
This site is 100% solar!
What about "Radio and Spectroscopy" ??
"Astronomical Spectroscopy - The Final Frontier" - to boldly go where few amateurs have gone before
https://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/ast ... scopy/info
"Astronomical Spectroscopy for Amateurs" and
"Imaging Sunlight - using a digital spectroheliograph" - Springer

User avatar
solarchat
Site Admin
Site Admin
Posts: 3947
Joined: Sat Feb 01, 2014 3:10 pm
Location: Atlanta, GA USA
Contact:

Re: Compact Littrow Spectrohelioscope - Any interest in an "IKEA" Kit???

Post by solarchat » Wed May 09, 2012 1:51 pm

you got it Merlin! I find reiterating "solar" helps keep the sissy night time guys from posting there measely little galaxy photos and planets..ya know all that girly stuff..:)
Stephen W. Ramsden
Atlanta, GA USA
Founder/Director Charlie Bates Solar Astronomy Project
http://www.solarastronomy.org

User avatar
Merlin66
Librarian
Librarian
Posts: 3069
Joined: Tue Dec 13, 2011 1:23 pm
Location: St Leonards, Australia
Contact:

Re: Compact Littrow Spectrohelioscope - Any interest in an "IKEA" Kit???

Post by Merlin66 » Wed May 09, 2012 1:52 pm

Thanks mate!
Now we're getting really serious ;-)
"Astronomical Spectroscopy - The Final Frontier" - to boldly go where few amateurs have gone before
https://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/ast ... scopy/info
"Astronomical Spectroscopy for Amateurs" and
"Imaging Sunlight - using a digital spectroheliograph" - Springer

User avatar
marktownley
Librarian
Librarian
Posts: 23668
Joined: Tue Oct 18, 2011 5:27 pm
Location: Brierley Hills, UK
Contact:

Re: Compact Littrow Spectrohelioscope - Any interest in an "IKEA" Kit???

Post by marktownley » Wed May 09, 2012 4:23 pm

Sounds interesting... Do you have any pics of what a finished one looks like on the end of scope?
Image
http://brierleyhillsolar.blogspot.co.uk/
Solar images, a collection of all the most up to date live solar data on the web, imaging & processing tutorials - please take a look!

colinsk
Almost There...
Almost There...
Posts: 507
Joined: Sat Mar 10, 2012 9:30 pm

Re: Compact Littrow Spectrohelioscope - Any interest in an "IKEA" Kit???

Post by colinsk » Wed May 09, 2012 4:46 pm

Google will find the forum better if you title it:

Solar Spectroscopy and Radio

And perhaps the modding section can be:

Solar Telescope Design and Construction

:?

Thank you for all of both of your efforts!
Thank you, Here are some references I have collected.



Etalon Article Part I

Etalon Article Part II

Solar Patents of interest

colinsk
Almost There...
Almost There...
Posts: 507
Joined: Sat Mar 10, 2012 9:30 pm

Re: Compact Littrow Spectrohelioscope - Any interest in an "IKEA" Kit???

Post by colinsk » Wed May 09, 2012 4:52 pm

I'm currently in the middle of a batch build of twenty Spectra-L200 spectroscopes.
Seeing all the components lying around and thinking about all the recent discussion on expensive filters and bandwiths, made me investitage the possiblity of making a spectrohelioscope Kit.
This would have everything you need, just "assemble and play".
It would have to be based on a f10 system. Reflective stainless steel entrance slit; the reflective heat being directed to a "dump" and force ventilated with a fan.
A littrow design with either a 1200 or 2400 l/mm fully adjustable (from 380nm to NIR) would be compact enough to sit on most large achromats. No ERF required.No RA drive required...just "point and shoot"
From my SimSpec V4 spreadsheet the 1200 grating should give a resolution of 0.38A (Ha) and 0.4A (CaK), the 2400 should give 0.13A (Ha) and 0.18A (CaK)
The software for processing the images is already available (for XP - not 100% sure about Win7)

Would there be any real interest in such a project???
Comments/ questions?

I am very interested in the project! Do you have some plans? I would like to evaluate it for modding for visual use. To see if there is room for any of the typical scanning optics used in visual spectrohelioscopes. Also, we really need a new book on spectrohelioscopes. Fred did a great job but his writing style is dated and I think the subject could be cleaned up. If you are interesting in co-authoring or having me as a technical editor I would be happy to offer my time. I am finishing a book on brewing water chemistry this summer and will only have speaking engagements after that.
Thank you, Here are some references I have collected.



Etalon Article Part I

Etalon Article Part II

Solar Patents of interest

User avatar
solarchat
Site Admin
Site Admin
Posts: 3947
Joined: Sat Feb 01, 2014 3:10 pm
Location: Atlanta, GA USA
Contact:

Re: Compact Littrow Spectrohelioscope - Any interest in an "IKEA" Kit???

Post by solarchat » Wed May 09, 2012 4:57 pm

you're probably right but Im not real interested in google finding it as I prefer quality users over quantity..
Stephen W. Ramsden
Atlanta, GA USA
Founder/Director Charlie Bates Solar Astronomy Project
http://www.solarastronomy.org

User avatar
marktownley
Librarian
Librarian
Posts: 23668
Joined: Tue Oct 18, 2011 5:27 pm
Location: Brierley Hills, UK
Contact:

Re: Compact Littrow Spectrohelioscope - Any interest in an "IKEA" Kit???

Post by marktownley » Wed May 09, 2012 5:11 pm

I would love to add something to one of my side by side mounts that showed the spectral lines of sunlight to my students but it would have to be robust and easy to put up, take down and adjust. Is this what you are talking about or is this more involved than just putting it on a mount or tripod and looking at emission lines?

Hey Stephen, we have a whole load of these we use at school

http://www.mindsetsonline.co.uk/product ... id=1009497

They're pretty cheap and work (IMHO) for the cost of them really well. Kids absoltely love them and I find work a bit better than the 'cereal box' versions we had a thread on around new year time. With some black electrical tape on the folds to make light tight improves the efficiency significantly.

Drop me a message with your address in and will get one in the post for you on saturday so you can see what they're like. :)
Image
http://brierleyhillsolar.blogspot.co.uk/
Solar images, a collection of all the most up to date live solar data on the web, imaging & processing tutorials - please take a look!

User avatar
solarchat
Site Admin
Site Admin
Posts: 3947
Joined: Sat Feb 01, 2014 3:10 pm
Location: Atlanta, GA USA
Contact:

Re: Compact Littrow Spectrohelioscope - Any interest in an "IKEA" Kit???

Post by solarchat » Wed May 09, 2012 5:16 pm

Thats very kind Mark but I already have a couple in the same range and you're right the kids do love them. I was looking for something a little more substantial that will show the lines clearly, etc.. Thank you for the ofer though mt friend. You've done quite enough already as my most avid "job getter doner"..
Stephen W. Ramsden
Atlanta, GA USA
Founder/Director Charlie Bates Solar Astronomy Project
http://www.solarastronomy.org

User avatar
marktownley
Librarian
Librarian
Posts: 23668
Joined: Tue Oct 18, 2011 5:27 pm
Location: Brierley Hills, UK
Contact:

Re: Compact Littrow Spectrohelioscope - Any interest in an "IKEA" Kit???

Post by marktownley » Wed May 09, 2012 5:26 pm

I think i'm the same boat as you Stephen, want something better than the CD jobbies but not wanting to pay shelyak prices...
Image
http://brierleyhillsolar.blogspot.co.uk/
Solar images, a collection of all the most up to date live solar data on the web, imaging & processing tutorials - please take a look!

User avatar
Merlin66
Librarian
Librarian
Posts: 3069
Joined: Tue Dec 13, 2011 1:23 pm
Location: St Leonards, Australia
Contact:

Re: Compact Littrow Spectrohelioscope - Any interest in an "IKEA" Kit???

Post by Merlin66 » Thu May 10, 2012 6:13 am

Colin/ mark,
I'll do some sketches to show the layout, but at this stage think in terms of a 1.5Kg box, 80mm x 120mm x 350mm. I already have access to the polished stainless steel slit blades.
The collimator would be a 600mm focal length, folded and a micrometer head adjuster for the 50mm grating....Standard 2" nosepiece (or T thread) and helical focuser for a DMK....

Colin - Hmmmm an up to date book on Spectrohelioscopes would be interesting. We'd need to target 260 pages to get the publisher interested....
"Astronomical Spectroscopy - The Final Frontier" - to boldly go where few amateurs have gone before
https://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/ast ... scopy/info
"Astronomical Spectroscopy for Amateurs" and
"Imaging Sunlight - using a digital spectroheliograph" - Springer

colinsk
Almost There...
Almost There...
Posts: 507
Joined: Sat Mar 10, 2012 9:30 pm

Re: Compact Littrow Spectrohelioscope - Any interest in an "IKEA" Kit???

Post by colinsk » Thu May 10, 2012 3:49 pm

There are two in driving distance from my house. One is visual the other is stacked from a linear detector. There has also been some great work in Europe. This could provide photos of actual working systems. Fred already mapped out all of the image generators I can think of. Perhaps there are more now. I plan on using rotating prisms in mine.
Thank you, Here are some references I have collected.



Etalon Article Part I

Etalon Article Part II

Solar Patents of interest

User avatar
Merlin66
Librarian
Librarian
Posts: 3069
Joined: Tue Dec 13, 2011 1:23 pm
Location: St Leonards, Australia
Contact:

Re: Compact Littrow Spectrohelioscope - Any interest in an "IKEA" Kit???

Post by Merlin66 » Thu May 10, 2012 3:55 pm

Colin,
Is there any real reason you would consider a mechanical spectrohelioscope, when the "electronic" version seems much easier to make and just as capable???
"Astronomical Spectroscopy - The Final Frontier" - to boldly go where few amateurs have gone before
https://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/ast ... scopy/info
"Astronomical Spectroscopy for Amateurs" and
"Imaging Sunlight - using a digital spectroheliograph" - Springer

PEterW
Ohhhhhh My!
Ohhhhhh My!
Posts: 145
Joined: Fri Apr 27, 2012 8:57 pm

Re: Compact Littrow Spectrohelioscope - Any interest in an "IKEA" Kit???

Post by PEterW » Thu May 10, 2012 9:33 pm

Book.... There was one at spectrohelioscope.net, which seems to have vanished. I did download it a some point, it was by Fred veio(?). Very good, but a real monster with little lenses and a solar tracker. The manning/Gavin ones need a vibrating slit to reconstruct the image. Maurice lives quite close to me, though he is mainly into rapidndeep sky imaging now, I'm sure he'd be able to help with information if we asked nicely. Being able to just plug one onto a scope and press a button and get images sounds very good. Would you be able to use an f5with a 2x Barlow as the scope.... I want to keep things nice and compact. Pictures and details are of course awaited!

Cheers

PEterW

PS if there is no publisher interest, just do it yourself as a creative commons or go print on demand with someone like lulu, who several family members have used.
PPS it would be good to expand on the work of Alexandra and David Kneisley and the Liverpool AS solar good, to give people a "what you can see through amateur solar kit", the extant books are a bit dated imagewise of sound like they are too full of equations, the main thing we have going for us is the quality of the images..... !!

Post Reply

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 1 guest