Apollo Lasky banned again

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Apollo Lasky banned again

Post by solarchat »

Users,

I have tried to be discrete and fair to a certain individual who continues to join our group using fake usernames after being banned several times. This user was found again today thanks to a member notification and was again removed.
If you have ANY contact with a person named Apollo Lasky, who most recently used the fake user account "justapictureposter", please disregard any information or attempts at sales of merchandise from this person.

He has been caught before selling merchandise using our nonprofit's name and reputation on other social media sites and continues to promote/sell unsafe, homemade merchandise on our forum.

DO NOT interact with this person on our forum and please and let me know if you find him logging in again.
If you are friends with this person outside of the forum, please advise him that I DO NOT appreciate his continued use of our forum using fake names and accounts.

Stephen Ramsden


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Re: Apollo Lasky banned again

Post by solarchat »

and the inevitable angry response from this nutbag.



45B9CF75-94C0-40DE-A91E-611BBDE8AE4A.jpeg
45B9CF75-94C0-40DE-A91E-611BBDE8AE4A.jpeg (619.96 KiB) Viewed 416 times


Stephen W. Ramsden
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http://www.solarastronomy.org
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Re: Apollo Lasky banned again

Post by DeepSolar64 »

It's a shame when stuff like this happens. Solar astronomy is probably the fastest growing branch of amateur astronomy and this forum can help us all learn and grow in the pursuit of it. Being kind, truthful and above all safe is an important part of it. And we can learn so much from each other. With Apollo this was a shame. He did some of the best solar animations I have seen anywhere.

I didn't notice his products much, except for the Skybender. But I don't follow or dwell overly on equipment. It's the sun itself that interests me. Equipment is just the way of getting there!

Anyway, we go on. Thanks for your leadership Steven and thanks to our moderators, Mark and Alexandra as well.

James


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Re: Apollo Lasky banned again

Post by EGRAY_OBSERVATORY »

Thank you Stephen for taking the necessary-action to protect both SolarChat and its' users.

I had realised that there was something very-wrong with the continued misuse of this valuable forum and would never (and do not approve) of getting and/or trying-out any such items for Solar-viewing, whatever they may be, unless proven-experience by the best manufacturers and their testing-regimes.

SAFETY FIRST is always appropriate for any Solar-viewing... !!!

Regards
Terry


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Re: Apollo Lasky banned again

Post by Bob Yoesle »

Being kind, truthful and above all safe is an important part of it.
I had realised that there was something very-wrong with the continued misuse of this valuable forum and would never (and do not approve) of getting and/or trying-out any such items for Solar-viewing, whatever they may be, unless proven-experience by the best manufacturers and their testing-regimes.

Dear Stephen,

I initially wasn’t going to say anything; only you know the actual reasons for banning Mr. Lasky and deleting all his posts. But those you have cited seem to be inconsistent and possibly unjustified; they and the “safety” and "misuse" comments echoed by the posters that follow deserve some scrutiny.

I know from personal experience on SolarChat and Cloudy Nights that Lasky has a tendency to become defensive and at times offensive when his postulations are questioned. But in general many of his posts were of interest and made for legitimate discussion. If he was previously "banned several times" for inappropriate or discourteous remarks, he indeed invited removal. That’s an important lesson in life for impulse control and establishing general good manners - for everyone.

But why was he then allowed back in the first place? The forum moderators were more than aware that Lasky was again posting – referring to him by name and praising his efforts and appreciative of his experiments and devices for quite some time. I believe in order to register you have to use a valid email address, and Lasky’s is obvious. So it appears you were either not informed (i.e. the moderators failed at monitoring), or you and/or they chose to look the other way. Why else would you state “I have tried to be discrete and fair to a certain individual who continues to join our group using fake usernames after being banned several times?” This implies that Lasky was not just “found again today thanks to a member notification and was again removed.” Rather it looks like after receiving a complaint from someone, a bit of rationalization has taken place to justify his removal.

It seems contrived to vaguely cite Lasky of previously having been “caught before selling merchandise using our nonprofit's name and reputation on other social media sites” when it appears to have been well known to yourself if not the forum moderators, and yet he was allowed back on just the same, and apparently is not accused of being currently engaged such behavior. And even if he was, a simple order to cease and desist would probably have sufficed. Moreover, the "fair-use doctrine" would seem to allow one to use references to SolarChat on other social media sites. For example, if Lasky refers to images made by him or others using filters or equipment that he provided information about or sells and which are posted on SolarChat, where’s the harm to SolarChat? Does this create some form of endorsement by you or SolarChat? Of course it doesn’t.

The “Silly Forum Rules” specify this prohibited selling is limited to a “for profit manner.” How do you determine that? I doubt Lasky is a significant for-profit vendor, and more than likely is a non-profit supplier. I know Lasky has made little on much of what he offers, including the Skybender filter-tilter device, which I and others have found quite useful, and without any other readily available commercial alternative. The optical filters he occasionally describes and offers for sale are professionally made to industry standards at significant production costs, for which he appears to try to recover the costs for the multiple examples that must be produced so he can have one or two. He makes the remainder available at seemingly little if any profit to many of us who would otherwise not wish to or be able to risk or afford the expenditure for the R&D he provides for these devices or filters on our own. How is this any different than someone promoting or buying a filter made by the exact same OEM that then gets re-sold on “Swap and Shop”? Indeed, Lasky recently approached me to purchase my custom made Chroma Technology CaK filter, which he had initiated – and which I purchased directly from Chroma – so he could give it away without cost to another forum member in their CaK imaging pursuits.

I believe it is one thing to remove or edit offensive posts that may violate a “silly forum rule,” yet quite another to remove every post someone has ever made, thereby removing important context to what follows in the threads that remain. I’d say 90% or more of Lasky’s posts seem to have been appropriate and non-offensive, especially for a forum that is touted as being far less restrictive than Cloudy Nights regarding equipment modification and safety concerns. The allegation that “he continues to promote/sell unsafe, homemade merchandise on our forum” apparently indicates a long-standing practice that was previously allowed. It also seems to be completely inconsistent with the following:

Solar Scope Modifications

Frankenscope? Let's see it!***be advised that NOTHING in this forum has been safety tested and you are reading and using these posts at your own peril. blah, blah, blah... dont mess around with your eyesight when it comes to solar astronomy. Use appropriate filtration at all times...


How has it been determined anything Lasky has developed or sold (homemade or not) is “unsafe?” Has it been procured and independently tested? What are the criteria for safety being used? How is what Lasky did any different than designing and promoting – which SolarChat enthusiastically allows – potentially "unsafe" “PST mods” and then allowing offering of these internal components for sale on "Shop and Swap," or promoting or offering other manufacturer’s untested or unverified optical or mechanical components, of which there are multiple examples on the forum?

Therefore the “safety” concern arguments cited, and echoed by previous posters; appear unsubstantiated and completely hollow given the allowance of the promotion or sale of almost any other "Frankenscope" equipment which could potentially be similarly "unsafe."

The forum also has a:

Solar Astronomy Shop and Swap

VENDORS WELCOME! Please, only solar equipment
,”

followed by:

BUY AT YOUR OWN RISK. THIS FORUM NOT REGULATED.

I think one would be hard-pressed not to consider Lasky a legitimate vendor under common statutory rules of construction using a dictionary definition of “a person or company offering something for sale, especially a trader in the street.” I fail to see how Lasky’s promotion of “homemade merchandise” is significantly different from anyone else’s homemade telescope or equipment posted on the forum, or disqualifies his being considered a bona fide "vendor." Such merchandise sale is encouraged via both the Solar Scope Modifications and Shop and Swap sub-forums and the explicit encouragement for “vendors welcome” and the accompanying purchase disclaimer.

Even though one may feel further justification in removing Lasky for his inappropriate and condescending private comparison of your actions to a well-established narcissist, I believe publicly calling Lasky a “nutbag” on the forum is also inappropriate and reflects poorly on SolarChat. For me it nullifies any genuine rationale you may have had and indicates there may not be much beyond personal animosity at work. There was no need to publicly post this response or his private message, as you had already cited multiple rationales for his removal from the forum. You could have left it at that, which to me sets a better example for how to deal with such situations when they are legitimately warranted. “Two wrongs do not make a right.”

Lastly, I too have been the recipient of belittling comments from Lasky. I ignored them, as I knew most people would see them for what they were – and he had the insight and decency of following up with a private apology. Despite his occasional disagreeableness, I appreciated Lasky’s efforts – however clouded by intemperance or the lack of formal knowledge – to improve the availability and performance of solar filters and devices and to have been at times innovative with attempts and embodiments to think “outside of the box.”

For me, Lasky’s contributions to SolarChat and the availability of unique amateur solar equipment and filters he provided outweighed his limitations, and he will be missed.

Best wishes,

Bob


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Re: Apollo Lasky banned again

Post by AndiesHandyHandies »

Hi

I agree with Bob and Apollo has in this incarnation been providing filters free of charge to members to try out.

Cheers. Andrew.


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Re: Apollo Lasky banned again

Post by MalVeauX »

I agree with Bob, very well stated, thoughtful and meaningful.

This whole thing seems personal to me. Why make a public notice and spectacle out of it? Especially with so much contrary stuff to the point of it looking very personal?

It's sad because so many forums do not allow people to have open conversation about non-commercial solar equipment. Losing anyone that actually gives to the community is a big deal in my book.

I assume since this thread was made public, made a spectacle, and was not even locked, that it was meant to allow for comments. If these comments are unwelcome, then why do this? Literally everyone except Stephen knew Apollo was posting here. A very profound point Bob made. Just makes it again seem very personal and makes this place seem all the more "elite club." Not friendly.

Very disappointed in how this whole thing worked out and the behavior on both sides.

Very best,
Marty


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Re: Apollo Lasky banned again

Post by DeepSolar64 »

My first opinion of Apollo was negative when I asked him about a component he was dissembling and he dissed me bluntly without an answer, after that he stated he was leaving the forum with an apology. I never knew what that was about. I never could find an argument transpiring anywhere on the forum concerning him. After that he disappeared for a short while and then returned. I never had any more negative issues with him and enjoyed his imaging posts. He did really nice animations! I was disappointed that he was dismissed but I also was dismayed by his response to Steven.

I was a council member ( moderator ) on another forum, not astronomy related, and have always appreciated Steven's no-frills no BS stance on getting along. The only thing I have to watch myself is the stance on religion. I myself don't see [no religion please] as religion but as a relationship but I do understand that people argue over different beliefs and religions, so sadly I understand Steven's position on it and have seen many arguments on it as as a moderator in another forum and politics on another still. I am really glad political discussions are not allowed here.

I don't know what happened concerning Apollo Lasky and hate that it happened. But I wanna say that I generally appreciate Steven's no frills " Silly Forum Rules ". This is the third forum I have participated in over the years and the first astronomical forum and I must say it's easily the best. If I had something to say about Steven it that I wish he would participate on the forum more. Steven, we rarely see you here and I feel that as the administrator you should be a visible face and presence on the forums as should be the moderators. We see Mark and Alexandra often and Merlin occasionally. Steven, I am sure you would have a lot to add here. I would certainly appreciate your experience with Coronado!

Anyway, the Sun goes on into cycle 25. Let's peacefully follow it together and learn from each other.


DeepSolar64


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Re: Apollo Lasky banned again

Post by rsfoto »

Hi,

Whatever, but I feel it is a pity that forum politics or envy or personal disgust or stubbornness or you name it, is invading this place now ... just ridiculous

Why can not humans live in peace together side by side ...

Imagine where humanity could be if we all would join together our knowledge instead of attacking us continuously ...

Really Stupid ...


regards Rainer

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Re: Apollo Lasky banned again

Post by DeepSolar64 »

Why can not humans live in peace together side by side ...

Imagine where humanity could be if we all would join together our knowledge instead of attacking us continuously ...Rainer

Ditto!!!


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