Perseid Meteor Detection by Radio

I LOVE finding out about different ways to appreciate the Sun and light in general. Use this forum to post your info or questions about various outside the mainstream ways to appreciate our life giving star!
User avatar
rsfoto
Way More Fun to Share It!!
Way More Fun to Share It!!
Posts: 2648
Joined: Mon Jun 18, 2012 8:30 pm
Location: San Luis Potosi, México
Has thanked: 1063 times
Been thanked: 771 times

Re: Perseid Meteor Detection by Radio

Post by rsfoto » Sun Aug 30, 2020 1:05 am

Carbon60 wrote:
Sat Aug 29, 2020 8:57 pm
Hi Rainer,

You need to put the curser on one of the signals that is jumping up and down a bit to show this, but don’t worry about that. The main thing is to show that SDR and Spectrum Lab are communicating, which you say is the case. Just focus on finding blips :)

Stu.
Well I am assuming it is working but in order to be sure I would like to see the full ones as you were able to depict and I am not.

Do I need to tune in onto that frequency ?
Last edited by rsfoto on Sat Sep 05, 2020 3:05 pm, edited 1 time in total.


regards Rainer

Observatorio Real de 14 San Luis Potosi Mexico

EGRAY_OBSERVATORY
Almost There...
Almost There...
Posts: 1025
Joined: Mon May 18, 2020 4:45 pm
Location: Essex, S.E.England
Been thanked: 463 times

Re: Perseid Meteor Detection by Radio

Post by EGRAY_OBSERVATORY » Sun Aug 30, 2020 2:54 pm

Very interesting post and comments Stuart - thanks vm.

I already have a radio-receiving station here covering from below 100Khz to just above 3Ghz in all modes of transmissions,
so even though I have been aware of the meteor-detection by radio, have not had the time to monitor and record - as yet.

All sorts of aerials and masts are available here from Yagi to verticals and long-wire dipole-G5RV's etc., so at no costs here I
could certainly monitor these types of reflected-transmissions and perhaps that could well occur after sorting the final parts of improving the Solar-imaging.

Along with my new Oculus camera (which captured the attached image), it would certainly make an interesting project during the meteor showers. (I can easily lower the horizontal aerial-wire if needed)...

Fortunately the other aerials and their masts are some distance away from my observatory (in my long-garden), so not a problem as far as imaging the heavenly-bodies are concerned...

Best Wishes
Terry
Attachments
Perseids Meteors-2020-08-09T22-20-07-541.jpg
Perseids Meteors-2020-08-09T22-20-07-541.jpg (93.13 KiB) Viewed 307 times



User avatar
rsfoto
Way More Fun to Share It!!
Way More Fun to Share It!!
Posts: 2648
Joined: Mon Jun 18, 2012 8:30 pm
Location: San Luis Potosi, México
Has thanked: 1063 times
Been thanked: 771 times

Re: Perseid Meteor Detection by Radio

Post by rsfoto » Sun Aug 30, 2020 3:49 pm

Hi Terry,

Interesting that you are already fully equipped. Let us know how you go along with this.

May I ask where are you located ? There is no info in your profile :?

Thanks


regards Rainer

Observatorio Real de 14 San Luis Potosi Mexico

User avatar
Carbon60
Way More Fun to Share It!!
Way More Fun to Share It!!
Posts: 7594
Joined: Wed Mar 07, 2012 12:33 pm
Location: Lancashire, UK
Has thanked: 695 times
Been thanked: 607 times

Re: Perseid Meteor Detection by Radio

Post by Carbon60 » Sun Aug 30, 2020 8:06 pm

Excellent, Terry. Combining radio detection and full-sky photography sounds like a great project.

Stu.


H-alpha, WL and Ca II K imaging kit for various image scales.
Fluxgate Magnetometers (1s and 150s Cadence).
Radio meteor detector.
More images at http://www.flickr.com/photos/solarcarbon60/

User avatar
Carbon60
Way More Fun to Share It!!
Way More Fun to Share It!!
Posts: 7594
Joined: Wed Mar 07, 2012 12:33 pm
Location: Lancashire, UK
Has thanked: 695 times
Been thanked: 607 times

Re: Perseid Meteor Detection by Radio

Post by Carbon60 » Sun Aug 30, 2020 8:15 pm

rsfoto wrote:
Sun Aug 30, 2020 1:05 am
Carbon60 wrote:
Sat Aug 29, 2020 8:57 pm
Hi Rainer,

You need to put the curser on one of the signals that is jumping up and down a bit to show this, but don’t worry about that. The main thing is to show that SDR and Spectrum Lab are communicating, which you say is the case. Just focus on finding blips :)

Stu.
Well I am assiming it is working but in order to be sure I would like to see the full oines as you were able to depict and I am not.

Do I need to tune in onto that frequency ?
Hi Rainer,

To get this effect, you'll need to find a station that barely shows, but 'pops up and down' on the monitor. This will 'stimulate' Spectrum Lab to produce the horizontal lines. As I say, this is not really important so long as SDR and Spectrum Lab are communicating.

Stu.


H-alpha, WL and Ca II K imaging kit for various image scales.
Fluxgate Magnetometers (1s and 150s Cadence).
Radio meteor detector.
More images at http://www.flickr.com/photos/solarcarbon60/

EGRAY_OBSERVATORY
Almost There...
Almost There...
Posts: 1025
Joined: Mon May 18, 2020 4:45 pm
Location: Essex, S.E.England
Been thanked: 463 times

Re: Perseid Meteor Detection by Radio

Post by EGRAY_OBSERVATORY » Sun Aug 30, 2020 11:24 pm

Thanks Rainer and Stuart.

Rainer: To be honest I haven't yet had time to update my profile as yet, but will-do soon as well as adding photos of the observatory etc.
I am in S.E.England in the county of Essex (as an "Essex Boy")... My first trade in the Royal Air Force was communications including land-line
and radio, so have always had much to do with the subject and have an extensive-range of radio-gear and everything that goes with them..
My garden is an "aerial-farm" too...

Stuart: Indeed the two items will go together and may well produce some captures and their sounds-of in due course. The Oculus camera also allows
for unattended recording of the sky, so actually less work to do over the hours and saves the roof being opened on very cold-nights, where
I can now sit in comfort in the then heated-observatory, c/w with a mini-kitchen (well actually a kettle and hot or cold drinks), mini TV,
CLASSIC-FM radio, Air Traffic Control-radio, Aircraft-radar system along with the obvious telescopes and associated-gear. So what more
would one want to pass the hours away with ??? If you are about to say a "bed" for the occasional kip, then that is also available too...

Although the only communications radio is an ICOM for ATC (always in the observatory), pipe-lined underground is a four-channel feed from
my radio-shack area, which would well-serve through the existing four speakers already installed in the observatory to patch into the HF and
other radio-gear. This has already been used for relaying multi-frequency simultaneous ATC-comms (Radar, Approach Control, Tower etc.) so
to change to any other frequency/radio would be quite a simple task.

Today has just been for completing the total-rewiring to completion of the new computerised-telescope control and testing of all four-cameras on the Skywatcher EQ6-GT mount and scopes, to eliminate the need for plug-changes in the future.

Next job is to get the scopes set-up for better images - when the weather allows and hopefully soon...

Just a matter of time and lots of patience...

CLEAR SKIES
Regards
Terry



User avatar
rsfoto
Way More Fun to Share It!!
Way More Fun to Share It!!
Posts: 2648
Joined: Mon Jun 18, 2012 8:30 pm
Location: San Luis Potosi, México
Has thanked: 1063 times
Been thanked: 771 times

Re: Perseid Meteor Detection by Radio

Post by rsfoto » Mon Aug 31, 2020 1:20 am

Hi Stu,

I think my communication is still not OK.

Look at the screenshot. That big red signal at 90 099 100 (tuned at 90 098 000 and this is 1100 hz to the right) is 1000 Hz wide but id did not show up in the3 SpectrumLab waterfall ... and the length was maybe 1-2 seconds only ...

incognita.JPG
incognita.JPG (305.37 KiB) Viewed 289 times


regards Rainer

Observatorio Real de 14 San Luis Potosi Mexico

User avatar
Carbon60
Way More Fun to Share It!!
Way More Fun to Share It!!
Posts: 7594
Joined: Wed Mar 07, 2012 12:33 pm
Location: Lancashire, UK
Has thanked: 695 times
Been thanked: 607 times

Re: Perseid Meteor Detection by Radio

Post by Carbon60 » Tue Sep 01, 2020 5:23 am

Hi Rainer,

Further thoughts on this.... are you positive that you’ve installed the correct configuration file in Spectrum Lab? There’s one that comes with the app as standard. Don’t use this one, even though it is listed as ‘Meteor’. You need to use the one referenced in the original Popular Astronomy article as this sets everything required for proper interpretation of the signals coming from the SDR app.

Stu.


H-alpha, WL and Ca II K imaging kit for various image scales.
Fluxgate Magnetometers (1s and 150s Cadence).
Radio meteor detector.
More images at http://www.flickr.com/photos/solarcarbon60/

User avatar
rsfoto
Way More Fun to Share It!!
Way More Fun to Share It!!
Posts: 2648
Joined: Mon Jun 18, 2012 8:30 pm
Location: San Luis Potosi, México
Has thanked: 1063 times
Been thanked: 771 times

Re: Perseid Meteor Detection by Radio

Post by rsfoto » Fri Sep 04, 2020 5:45 pm

Carbon60 wrote:
Tue Sep 01, 2020 5:23 am
Hi Rainer,

Further thoughts on this.... are you positive that you’ve installed the correct configuration file in Spectrum Lab? There’s one that comes with the app as standard. Don’t use this one, even though it is listed as ‘Meteor’. You need to use the one referenced in the original Popular Astronomy article as this sets everything required for proper interpretation of the signals coming from the SDR app.

Stu.
Hi Stu,

Sorry to be late answering but O have been trying to find transmitters suitable for RMO.

I do not know. Do you mean the MetScat:MJMM.USR file ? I loaded that one and then saved it unader an own name before making any changes.

Yes there is one named MeteorLoggerTest.usr. Just saw it but after reading popastro y saved the ...MJMM.USR file and as written before I saved it under an own name and then made changes in frequency, fc and sp.

Yesterday I got a simple 4 element Yagi antenna for Euro € 10.00 capable according ot the manufacturer to receive VHF/UHF and Radio FM. Now I am waiting for some adapater from F connector to SMA connector as well as getting some pliers for punching Coaxial cables and connectors.

What I thought is a 1 buck investment is now already a 4 buck investment :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:

Also already dismantled an old Satellite TV dish from the roof and installed it on the wall of my observatory near the window so I can turn it 360°. Also yersterday I finished making the mast for the antenna with 1.25" PVC tubing 3 meters long but it is a bit flexible and so I wikk cut it down to 1.6 meters in order it just point over the roof of my Observatory.

All this for initial test.

Main problem is to find a suitable tranmitter more then 400 km away and not more then maybe a 1000 km away.

A HAM guy from USA living in Scottsdale, Arizon is geiving me a lot of help in regard to the ttransmitters.

As soon as I have the Antenna on line I will perhaps see a clearer picture in reragd to transmitters as the Yagi antenna are directional ¿ right ?

I wish we would have a GRAVES radar somewhere but then life would be too easy :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:

Played around and I was able to see some planes with ADS tuning and Dump1090. Interesting :o

Have a nice weekend.


regards Rainer

Observatorio Real de 14 San Luis Potosi Mexico

User avatar
Carbon60
Way More Fun to Share It!!
Way More Fun to Share It!!
Posts: 7594
Joined: Wed Mar 07, 2012 12:33 pm
Location: Lancashire, UK
Has thanked: 695 times
Been thanked: 607 times

Re: Perseid Meteor Detection by Radio

Post by Carbon60 » Sat Sep 05, 2020 6:10 am

Hi Rainer,

It sounds like you've been busy! Hopefully you'll find a suitable transmitter somewhere, soon.

I am curious, though. You reference the correct configuration file MetScat:MJMM.USR, but your Spectrum Lab screen isn't set up in the same configuration as mine. On mine the frequency scale runs up and down the right hand side of the screen and the time-lines march on from right to left across the screen, whereas your frequency scale runs across the top and time downwards. Did you set it this way on purpose? To check this further, I set my Spectrum Lab App back to 'factory settings' as you would have received it and then I installed the MetScat:MJMM.USR configuration file and everything transformed to the configuration I've described above for my setup, so if you've followed these steps, then your screen should look like mine.

Just for clarity, this is the sequence you need to follow to configure Spectrum Lab:

This is the configuration after factory re-set (you don't need to do this, I'm just showing this as an example). You'll see this is very different from the final required configuration for this project.
Factory reset_Spectrum Lab.jpg
Factory reset_Spectrum Lab.jpg (259.33 KiB) Viewed 236 times
To reconfigure using the MetScat:MJMM.USR file, select 'File' from the toolbar and 'Load Settings From'
Uploading _Spectrum Lab.jpg
Uploading _Spectrum Lab.jpg (170.71 KiB) Viewed 236 times
Then select the MetScat:MJMM.USR from wherever you saved it and click 'Open'
Configuration File Selection _Spectrum Lab.jpg
Configuration File Selection _Spectrum Lab.jpg (200.09 KiB) Viewed 236 times
Spectrum lab will then totally reconfigure the screen (and all the 'internal' settings), so that it is ready to analyse the signals from the SDR app.
This is how it should look:
Reconfigured _Spectrum Lab.jpg
Reconfigured _Spectrum Lab.jpg (231.43 KiB) Viewed 236 times
Just be sure to check that it has the correct 'Input' set under 'Audio I/O', which should be 'CABLE Output (VB-Audio Virtual...), which is a bit confusing as it has the word 'output' when it it describing the input. Anyhow, if you follow these steps then the screen and everything else should be set up accordingly.

Stu.


H-alpha, WL and Ca II K imaging kit for various image scales.
Fluxgate Magnetometers (1s and 150s Cadence).
Radio meteor detector.
More images at http://www.flickr.com/photos/solarcarbon60/

User avatar
rsfoto
Way More Fun to Share It!!
Way More Fun to Share It!!
Posts: 2648
Joined: Mon Jun 18, 2012 8:30 pm
Location: San Luis Potosi, México
Has thanked: 1063 times
Been thanked: 771 times

Re: Perseid Meteor Detection by Radio

Post by rsfoto » Sat Sep 05, 2020 5:23 pm

Hi Stu,

That is exactly what I did. Just changed the orientation of the waterfall opening " Options > Spectrum display settings and unchecked " Vertical Frequency Axis " and the Waterfall moves horizontal instead of vertical. I do not think that that could cause problems.

Input my frequency of 108 308 640 Hz and did not change fc nor sp.

After this I saved the setting under a new file name ABC-XYZ.usr ...

Then I opened under Options " Screen capture options " and in " Screen Capture " I changed " Tackley Meteor Detection Station " to my own name ...

That was it ...

Yesterday I recorded the following eco, but Spectrum Lab did not reacts as maybe it was already there because it entered the waterfall and was not produced inside the waterfall of SDR#.

https://rainerehlert.com/000_RTLSDR/202 ... SA-RMO.mp4

I am still searching for the correct frequency and a usable beacon.

Here an image of my future antenna. That antenna cost me Euro € 10.00 and is a 4 element Yagi according to the producer get VHF/UHF from 40 MHz to 860 MHz radio FM frequency. Still have to put the Impedance Matching Transformer which I already have and I am waiting for the delivery of some adapters from F connector to female SMA connector and just as of now I read they are on the way to be delivered to me. I now have to wait that is stops raining and finish the mounting then I can play with the Yagi. :seesaw

That is a 1.25" PVC pipe and the green cable wound around is the grounding to the base and from there I will go into the soil of my garden. When everything works then I will go with a metal post on the roof of my house and the cabling goes into my Observatory. In the antenna image you can part of the house on the left.

I found a list made in USA about the mexican TV stations. Yes the lists made in Mexico are from last century :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:

This is keeping me busy :shock:


https://rainerehlert.com/000_RTLSDR/202 ... SA-RMO.mp4
Attachments
Antenna12.jpg
Antenna12.jpg (55.86 KiB) Viewed 225 times


regards Rainer

Observatorio Real de 14 San Luis Potosi Mexico

User avatar
Carbon60
Way More Fun to Share It!!
Way More Fun to Share It!!
Posts: 7594
Joined: Wed Mar 07, 2012 12:33 pm
Location: Lancashire, UK
Has thanked: 695 times
Been thanked: 607 times

Re: Perseid Meteor Detection by Radio

Post by Carbon60 » Sun Sep 06, 2020 5:33 am

:lol: Apologies Rainer, I was just double checking that everything was set up correctly.

Okay, so it's 'just' a case of finding the correct frequency and orientation now. As you surmise, Yagi antennae are somewhat directional, so you'll have to rotate this and tune the SDR to find the optimal setup for meteor detection.

Maybe also consider turning your Yagi towards San Antonio/Austin. There might be more up-to-date information about local radio/TV or radar in these regions. Good luck.

Stu.


H-alpha, WL and Ca II K imaging kit for various image scales.
Fluxgate Magnetometers (1s and 150s Cadence).
Radio meteor detector.
More images at http://www.flickr.com/photos/solarcarbon60/

User avatar
rsfoto
Way More Fun to Share It!!
Way More Fun to Share It!!
Posts: 2648
Joined: Mon Jun 18, 2012 8:30 pm
Location: San Luis Potosi, México
Has thanked: 1063 times
Been thanked: 771 times

Re: Perseid Meteor Detection by Radio

Post by rsfoto » Sun Sep 06, 2020 2:43 pm

Hi Stu,

No need to apologize. Just wanted to corroborate that everything is set up OK. Maybe I sounded a bit harsh ? Then apologies from my side :D

So, the antenna is connected via coaxial cable to my RTL-SDR.COM dongle and working :seesaw Rotate the antenna is easy. I have been doping it yesterday.

The guy in USA told me the Austin Texas transmitters are too strong and something else, I do not remember but maybe too crowded ...

I am trying on the SNOTEL/SCAN transmitters from USA but so far do not know where they are. I asked the guy in USA for help. Yesterday I got a weak barely visible peak signal at 40 670 000 Hz. That is according to the spec of the antenna producer 5 MHz under the alleged lowest possible reception frequency.

If 40.67 MHz is viable then I nearly do not need to incline my Antenna. Should the transmitter be 1.400 km away then I need an angle of about ~ 8° only. Made the calculations using this, rememebring old Technical School days :lol:

Aristo_868_01.jpg
Aristo_868_01.jpg (513.26 KiB) Viewed 211 times
Aristo_868_02.jpg
Aristo_868_02.jpg (478.73 KiB) Viewed 211 times

:shock: :shock: :shock: :shock:

Should that be a possible frequency then I would need to build a huge antenna. Best would be a MOXON antenna which has the smallest footprint compared to a Yagi antenna.

Interesting here in Mexico that there are nearly no transmitters in the frequency from 54 MHz to 210 MHZ. They all start at 470 MHz and up.

Need to do some tests in Radio FM frequencies from 88 MHZ to 108 MHz. Have already read a lot of literature but quiet old one. Nowadays with all the info in the cloud it is harder and harder to find newer literature about all that and if yes there are only fragments.

I will keep working on that.

BTW, did you already finish your antenna ?

:bow


regards Rainer

Observatorio Real de 14 San Luis Potosi Mexico

User avatar
rsfoto
Way More Fun to Share It!!
Way More Fun to Share It!!
Posts: 2648
Joined: Mon Jun 18, 2012 8:30 pm
Location: San Luis Potosi, México
Has thanked: 1063 times
Been thanked: 771 times

Re: Perseid Meteor Detection by Radio

Post by rsfoto » Sun Sep 06, 2020 3:21 pm

Hi Stu,

Just got the info for the nearest SNOTEL/SCAN transmitters and that is about 2.300 km away :o and another one is about 2.800 km away.

Also got the heading of both. Now I can chase the signal and the distances are good and need nearly no inclination.

Today or tomorrow I get the LNA for the Antenna.

:seesaw


regards Rainer

Observatorio Real de 14 San Luis Potosi Mexico

User avatar
rsfoto
Way More Fun to Share It!!
Way More Fun to Share It!!
Posts: 2648
Joined: Mon Jun 18, 2012 8:30 pm
Location: San Luis Potosi, México
Has thanked: 1063 times
Been thanked: 771 times

Re: Perseid Meteor Detection by Radio

Post by rsfoto » Sun Sep 06, 2020 5:26 pm

Hi Stu,

The 4 element Yagi antenna is now connected to the dongle and the operator is scanning the SNOTEL 40.67 MHz frequency. Antenna should be pointing at 4° but I guess that does not matter in this case. Question here is teh strength of the reflected signal from the meteors.

One more thing I am not sure about is the setting here.

What does fc and sp mean measured from what basis ¿ 40 670 000 MHz ? to the right ¿? or do I need to tune on the dimm signal of 40 672 900 Hz as I have read about forward scatter and forward scatter is more then the tuned frequency ¿? Questions over questions ...

Not_Clear.JPG
Not_Clear.JPG (16.75 KiB) Viewed 204 times

I am now in USB 2000 hz tuned on 40 670 000 Hz

Not_Clear_01.JPG
Not_Clear_01.JPG (116.64 KiB) Viewed 204 times

Here some images of my antenna set up for testing. As said before if I find a meteor I will install it with a metal mast on the roof of my house. This implies then a 15 to 20 meter long coaxial cable.

Antenna13.jpg
Antenna13.jpg (87.22 KiB) Viewed 204 times
Antenna14.jpg
Antenna14.jpg (59.47 KiB) Viewed 204 times
Antenna15.jpg
Antenna15.jpg (43.05 KiB) Viewed 204 times
Antenna16.jpg
Antenna16.jpg (41.02 KiB) Viewed 204 times
:bow2


regards Rainer

Observatorio Real de 14 San Luis Potosi Mexico

User avatar
Carbon60
Way More Fun to Share It!!
Way More Fun to Share It!!
Posts: 7594
Joined: Wed Mar 07, 2012 12:33 pm
Location: Lancashire, UK
Has thanked: 695 times
Been thanked: 607 times

Re: Perseid Meteor Detection by Radio

Post by Carbon60 » Mon Sep 07, 2020 5:19 pm

Hi Rainer,

Looking good.

To your questions:

fc is the central frequency on the Spectrum Lab frequency scale and sp is the span above and below the central frequency. In this case 2kHz is the central frequency and the span is 2kHz below to 2kHz above. vfo is the radio frequency.

If the frequency is the carrier wave frequency then continue to tune 2kHz below this frequency using upper side band. If you end up tuning to an fm station (over the hill, still) then tune to the station’s actual frequency and select FM on the SDR radio options.

Stu.


H-alpha, WL and Ca II K imaging kit for various image scales.
Fluxgate Magnetometers (1s and 150s Cadence).
Radio meteor detector.
More images at http://www.flickr.com/photos/solarcarbon60/

User avatar
rsfoto
Way More Fun to Share It!!
Way More Fun to Share It!!
Posts: 2648
Joined: Mon Jun 18, 2012 8:30 pm
Location: San Luis Potosi, México
Has thanked: 1063 times
Been thanked: 771 times

Re: Perseid Meteor Detection by Radio

Post by rsfoto » Tue Sep 08, 2020 3:11 pm

Carbon60 wrote:
Mon Sep 07, 2020 5:19 pm
Hi Rainer,

Looking good.

To your questions:

fc is the central frequency on the Spectrum Lab frequency scale and sp is the span above and below the central frequency. In this case 2kHz is the central frequency and the span is 2kHz below to 2kHz above. vfo is the radio frequency.

If the frequency is the carrier wave frequency then continue to tune 2kHz below this frequency using upper side band. If you end up tuning to an fm station (over the hill, still) then tune to the station’s actual frequency and select FM on the SDR radio options.

Stu.
Hi Stu,

Thanks. Will keep messing around. So far I have seen nothing :mrgreen:


regards Rainer

Observatorio Real de 14 San Luis Potosi Mexico

User avatar
rsfoto
Way More Fun to Share It!!
Way More Fun to Share It!!
Posts: 2648
Joined: Mon Jun 18, 2012 8:30 pm
Location: San Luis Potosi, México
Has thanked: 1063 times
Been thanked: 771 times

Re: Perseid Meteor Detection by Radio

Post by rsfoto » Thu Sep 10, 2020 8:34 pm

:Hi Stu,

With the help of Bob Alongi from Scottsdale, Arizona, USA I am slowly understanding all this a bit better after doing some tests on nearby TV stations and focusing on the ATSC pilot carrier frequency which is the lowest MHZ vale of each channel + 310 kHz.

What is still a bit unclear is the setting of Spectrum Lab.

When I set the ATSC frequency with CW I do not hear anything. Now setting the frequency 1 kHz lower with USB I hear a 1 kHz continuous tone. When I take off another 1 kHz then I am at + 308 kHz and I do not hear anything anymore so I guess this is how the Ping from a meteor is heard due to ¿ forawrd scatter ?

So Spectrum Lab need the frequency +308 kHz but here is my question about fc ... fc is equal to frequency center, correct ? So if I put there 2 kHz then the frequency center adds up to + 308 kHz + 2 kHz then I have + 310, is my thinking so far OK ?

Then comes the sp value and the original ...MJMM.USR file sets it to 2 kHz but I have seen settings of 4 kHz.

Is all this OK so far ?

Yesterday I recorder 9 h and 45 minutes from 21:30 till 06:00 hours but so far nothing suspicious in the video nor the audio. Took a transmitter about 700 km far away from my site on TV frequency Channel 12 = 204 MHz. The AVI is 21.5 GB :lol:

Thanks and regards Rainer


regards Rainer

Observatorio Real de 14 San Luis Potosi Mexico

User avatar
Carbon60
Way More Fun to Share It!!
Way More Fun to Share It!!
Posts: 7594
Joined: Wed Mar 07, 2012 12:33 pm
Location: Lancashire, UK
Has thanked: 695 times
Been thanked: 607 times

Re: Perseid Meteor Detection by Radio

Post by Carbon60 » Thu Sep 10, 2020 9:45 pm

Hi Rainer,

Spectrum Lab simply measures, displays and records audio frequencies, so nothing to do with the radio frequency. The vfo setting is not important. It is not used in this part of Spectrum Lab. The audio tone (frequency) generated by a meteor results from the difference between the SDR tuned frequency and the broadcast frequency, hence why the SDR is de-tuned by 2kHz to generate a 2kHz tone when the meteor enters the atmosphere. (It’s the frequency difference between an internal oscillator in the SDR and the radio frequency). Spectrum Lab is ‘listening’ for this tone.

Keep Spectrum Lab set up as per the configuration file and just de-tune the SDR to 2kHz below the target radio frequency. Set to USB and 4kHz bandwidth unless there is a radio signal within this bandwidth, in which case you can narrow it a bit to cut out this signal.

I think you may be overthinking this, Rainer.

Stu.


H-alpha, WL and Ca II K imaging kit for various image scales.
Fluxgate Magnetometers (1s and 150s Cadence).
Radio meteor detector.
More images at http://www.flickr.com/photos/solarcarbon60/

User avatar
rsfoto
Way More Fun to Share It!!
Way More Fun to Share It!!
Posts: 2648
Joined: Mon Jun 18, 2012 8:30 pm
Location: San Luis Potosi, México
Has thanked: 1063 times
Been thanked: 771 times

Re: Perseid Meteor Detection by Radio

Post by rsfoto » Fri Sep 11, 2020 2:58 pm

Carbon60 wrote:
Thu Sep 10, 2020 9:45 pm
Hi Rainer,

Spectrum Lab simply measures, displays and records audio frequencies, so nothing to do with the radio frequency. The vfo setting is not important. It is not used in this part of Spectrum Lab. The audio tone (frequency) generated by a meteor results from the difference between the SDR tuned frequency and the broadcast frequency, hence why the SDR is de-tuned by 2kHz to generate a 2kHz tone when the meteor enters the atmosphere. (It’s the frequency difference between an internal oscillator in the SDR and the radio frequency). Spectrum Lab is ‘listening’ for this tone.

Keep Spectrum Lab set up as per the configuration file and just de-tune the SDR to 2kHz below the target radio frequency. Set to USB and 4kHz bandwidth unless there is a radio signal within this bandwidth, in which case you can narrow it a bit to cut out this signal.

I think you may be overthinking this, Rainer.

Stu.
Hi Stu,

Thank you for the explanation and it is clearer now. So what I will hear is a 2 kHz tone. Good to know.
I think you may be overthinking this, Rainer.
Yes that is very possible. Normally I go the KISS way but this time all this info is overwhelming.

I started now to point at distant TV transmitters in Mexico and let it run and record audio an video every night.

As we say in Germany " Even a Blind chicken finds a grain from time to time " I have time until Leonid Meteor shower to see what happens

:bow2


regards Rainer

Observatorio Real de 14 San Luis Potosi Mexico

User avatar
rsfoto
Way More Fun to Share It!!
Way More Fun to Share It!!
Posts: 2648
Joined: Mon Jun 18, 2012 8:30 pm
Location: San Luis Potosi, México
Has thanked: 1063 times
Been thanked: 771 times

Re: Perseid Meteor Detection by Radio

Post by rsfoto » Sat Sep 12, 2020 5:20 pm

Hi Stu,

It is me again :roll: . Well I did run two days for 9 hours the SDR and recorded a video with audio. After analizing the both videos I get very short ping but not with a very high pitch but a lower pitch which seems to be 1 kHz.

I am pointing at a transmitter 1225 km away which is possibly transmitting in TV Channel which is 180 MHz. On september 10 I tuned the SDR to 180 311 000 Hz which is the ATSC pilot carrier.

Look at the echoes in form of lines up to double of the height of the base noise.

01_Extracted_video_pieces_20200911.JPG
01_Extracted_video_pieces_20200911.JPG (195.45 KiB) Viewed 138 times

In order to know what frquency that was I did put the ATSC pilot carrier using 596 310 000 MHz (a nearby TV transmitter) in that way that I could hear the 1 kHz tone. As you cans ee it is the double height of the base noise.

1kHz_test.JPG
1kHz_test.JPG (182.89 KiB) Viewed 138 times

So I guess I am receiving echoes on the 1225 km far away transmitter ?

Yesterday September 11 again a run of 9 hours and I got one line and a 12 second long echo ? As you can see below

Channel-8_180_MHz_very_short_echo.JPG
Channel-8_180_MHz_very_short_echo.JPG (132.45 KiB) Viewed 138 times

Channel-8_180_MHz_12s_echo.JPG
Channel-8_180_MHz_12s_echo.JPG (132.51 KiB) Viewed 138 times

Now comparing September 10 and september 11 the high lines are sporadic over the 9 hours of recording. Some are higher and some are less high but they all stand out from the base noise. Today I will run a test with Spectrum Lab.

Full_sound_line_20200910-11.JPG
Full_sound_line_20200910-11.JPG (103.25 KiB) Viewed 138 times
Full_sound_line_20200911-12.JPG
Full_sound_line_20200911-12.JPG (115.3 KiB) Viewed 138 times


regards Rainer

Observatorio Real de 14 San Luis Potosi Mexico

User avatar
Carbon60
Way More Fun to Share It!!
Way More Fun to Share It!!
Posts: 7594
Joined: Wed Mar 07, 2012 12:33 pm
Location: Lancashire, UK
Has thanked: 695 times
Been thanked: 607 times

Re: Perseid Meteor Detection by Radio

Post by Carbon60 » Sun Sep 13, 2020 6:58 am

Hi Rainer,

No problem. I happy to try to help.

The following article might be helpful. https://www.rasc.ca/sites/default/file ... aNotes.pdf. It seems that successful detection using digital TV carrier waves is very dependent on your location, how crowded the airwaves are and the tuned frequency.

It might also be beneficial to search for a VHF radio beacon or FM radio station 100 to 600km away.

I think one of the issues might be that the remote TV transmitter could be too weak and a little bit too far away. The long trail you’ve detected won’t have been a meteor.

Stu.


H-alpha, WL and Ca II K imaging kit for various image scales.
Fluxgate Magnetometers (1s and 150s Cadence).
Radio meteor detector.
More images at http://www.flickr.com/photos/solarcarbon60/

User avatar
rsfoto
Way More Fun to Share It!!
Way More Fun to Share It!!
Posts: 2648
Joined: Mon Jun 18, 2012 8:30 pm
Location: San Luis Potosi, México
Has thanked: 1063 times
Been thanked: 771 times

Re: Perseid Meteor Detection by Radio

Post by rsfoto » Sun Sep 13, 2020 8:21 pm

Hi Stu,

Thank you. Looks like I am doing some progress with my chosen frequency at 180 MHz tuning on the ATSC pilot carrier +310 kHz.

Here some pings extracted from my 10 hour video. What do you think ? Some are debatable but the time is very very short. The ones with red center are not more then 500 ms.

I added 2 s before and 2 s afterwards.

https://rainerehlert.com/000_RTLSDR/202 ... O-NHSA.mp4
Last edited by rsfoto on Mon Sep 14, 2020 3:24 pm, edited 1 time in total.


regards Rainer

Observatorio Real de 14 San Luis Potosi Mexico

User avatar
Montana
Librarian
Librarian
Posts: 23313
Joined: Mon Oct 17, 2011 5:25 pm
Location: Cheshire, UK
Has thanked: 1816 times
Been thanked: 622 times

Re: Perseid Meteor Detection by Radio

Post by Montana » Mon Sep 14, 2020 7:32 am

Wow!! that sounds great! we saw quite a few meteors last night while we were watching stars and satellites and I was thinking of you :)

Alexandra



User avatar
rsfoto
Way More Fun to Share It!!
Way More Fun to Share It!!
Posts: 2648
Joined: Mon Jun 18, 2012 8:30 pm
Location: San Luis Potosi, México
Has thanked: 1063 times
Been thanked: 771 times

Re: Perseid Meteor Detection by Radio

Post by rsfoto » Thu Sep 17, 2020 8:37 pm

Hi,

UPDATE

Looks like the chi Cygnids are active.

https://www.meteornews.net/2020/09/11/m ... mber-2020/

As I have clouds and radio waves are not affected by clouds I have been working on my RMO :-)

Here a video of what I got from yesterday September 16 to today morning September 17

There are some nice impacts as far as I would say. Video is 2:07 minutes long.

https://rainerehlert.com/000_RTLSDR/202 ... O-NHSA.mp4


regards Rainer

Observatorio Real de 14 San Luis Potosi Mexico

Post Reply