Magnetometer Project

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Re: Magnetometer Project

Post by grimble_cornet »

Thanks guys - it certainly proves that the project is realistic :seesaw

The 'beer fridge' is just a 'cheapo' old fridge which lives in my extension and is used to store milk and beer. Your point about opening the door is a good one and the 25m lead to the buried sensor will only just reach it. I am also less than convinced that the fridge will maintain the temperature as accurately in the summer so ...................... its not really a long term solution.

If I was convinced that a small 'beer fridge' would work, I would install one in the observatory (yeah :P ) but I suspect that it would show more variation than a full size fridge.

I have pretty much decided to follow Stuart's solution using a heat mat plus a 'pulse' thermostat in a cool-box to maintain the temperature. This could live in the observatory or in the house within easy reach of the sensor cable.

Let's see what a 24 hour run produces once I change over to Stuart's 150 second sample routine.


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Re: Magnetometer Project

Post by swisswalter »

Hi Mike

great results with the fridge. I'm sad to see you leaving that simple method though, but I do understand the need of a beer or two a day ;)


Only stardust in the wind, some fine and some less fine scopes, filters and adapters as well. Switzerland 47 N, 9 E, in the heart of EUROPE :)

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from 7.01 pm - 6.59 am http://www.wastronomiko.com some times vice versa ;)
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Re: Magnetometer Project

Post by grimble_cornet »

Don't worry Walter, I have other stores of Beer (and wine) in other fridges :P



Well, here we go - a full 24 hour cycle of The Beer Fridge Magnetometer

24 hours in the beer fridge.jpg
I have 'smoothed' my data in the top right graph to simulate Stuart's 150 second sample rate - the top left graph shows my original 30 second data.

The agreement with the Niemegk data is not perfect - there is some variation from about 11am but each station seems to show a slightly different curve during times of low magnetic activity so........ not sure how concerned I should be about that?
The fridge temperature has been very consistent if you believe what the probe is reporting and the outside temperature has only varied by about 3 degrees C over the last 24 hours so I don't think the buried sensor will have been influenced very much?


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Re: Magnetometer Project

Post by swisswalter »

Hi Mike

but that looks very promissing, almost perfect


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from 7.01 pm - 6.59 am http://www.wastronomiko.com some times vice versa ;)
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Re: Magnetometer Project

Post by marktownley »

I agree looks good. Longer term testing and evaluation required!


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Re: Magnetometer Project

Post by grimble_cornet »

Your wish is my command:

I intend to run it from the fridge for a few days just to make sure that other aspects of the gear are behaving. I will then decide on a permanent set-up for the Bat 5 end of the cable.

In the meantime, here we have 42 hours of data from The Beer Fridge:
42 hours in the Beer Fridge.jpg
Here's to Walter for his inspiring idea:
Cheers.jpg
Cheers.jpg (38.88 KiB) Viewed 5633 times

And finally, here is this morning's data in more detail using Stuart's 150 second sampling rate - seems very 'frisky' with lots of 'pulses' when compared to Intermagnet?
A very active trace.jpg


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Re: Magnetometer Project

Post by Montana »

Well done Mike :hamster: :hamster: :hamster: we just need a CME now :)

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Re: Magnetometer Project

Post by grimble_cornet »

YES :band

That would be very nice :P


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Re: Magnetometer Project

Post by marktownley »

Is it worth putting an RF supressor on the fridge? They are 'electrically noisy' things as they turn on an off, and can play havoc with expensive hifi's - maybe they could have an adverse effect on the bat detector unit?


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Re: Magnetometer Project

Post by grimble_cornet »

It wouldn't surprise me if the fridge was generating noise Mark :oops:

I have had the washing machine and spin dryer, which live in the same room, working hard this afternoon so it will be interesting to look at tonight's trace :roll:


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Re: Magnetometer Project

Post by Carbon60 »

Hi Mike,

I don't know how 'remote' your sensor is in relation to other sources of interference, but these things are so sensitive that you could also be detecting movement of cars in the street, or other such things. From 20m away I can detect vehicles turning in our Cul-de-sac. The deviation only needs only to be a few nT to appear significant.

I think your system is now up and running really well for a home made system operating in a garden environment. Professional systems will be located in a remote field quite some distance from any sources of interference.

Wait for a CME event and I'm confident that you'll be more than happy with the magnetometer response. :band

Stu.


H-alpha, WL and Ca II K imaging kit for various image scales.
Fluxgate Magnetometers (1s and 150s Cadence).
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Re: Magnetometer Project

Post by Wah »

Congratulations! Good to see such amateur professional results and I am now trying to introduce this to some of my friends from mainland China~


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Re: Magnetometer Project

Post by grimble_cornet »

Thank you Wah and I am pleased to hear that you are encouraging others to try this project - I have had a lot of fun getting to work.


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Re: Magnetometer Project

Post by grimble_cornet »

Thanks Stuart; I am pretty happy with the results I'm getting since moving into the fridge :lol:

I had the washing machine and tumble dryer working yesterday and they live next to the fridge :o
I got a temperature swing in the fridge (only a degree or so) but it had only a small impact on the results:

Here is 54 hours of Bat in the Fridge data compared with Intermagnet:
54 hours of Magnetometry.jpg
54 hours of Magnetometry.jpg (279.69 KiB) Viewed 5584 times
I'm pretty impressed with the correlation - especially now I realise how much the 'scaling' changes the appearance of the published graphs and makes it very difficult to combine 2 or 3 days worth of data.




I moved over to 150s samples for temperature and magnetic data last night and am very happy with the detail recorded during a minor event early this morning :seesaw
22nd January 150s data.jpg

Anyway: I have decided to bite the bullet and have ordered a heat mat and thermostat - same models as you use - to create a permanent recording station without being concerned by fridge access, washing machine interactions etc. :lol: :D :lol:


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Re: Magnetometer Project

Post by Montana »

Congratulations :hamster: :hamster: :hamster: we now have an aurora alert base in the midlands too :hamster:

Alexandra


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Re: Magnetometer Project

Post by swisswalter »

Hi Mike

just wonderful results and many thanks for the beer ;)


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Re: Magnetometer Project

Post by marktownley »

Very funky!


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Re: Magnetometer Project

Post by Carbon60 »

Hi Mike,

As a point of reference, here are my data from the same period. Looks like we're in pretty good agreement. :band
Unsettled Geomag 20150122.jpg
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Stu.


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Fluxgate Magnetometers (1s and 150s Cadence).
Radio meteor detector.
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Re: Magnetometer Project

Post by grimble_cornet »

Thanks for all of your support and encouragement folks :bow2

This thread seems to have generated a lot of interest and I hope other people will be motivated to have a go.
For me, it has provided precisely the complex, multi-variable, problem solving challenge which attracted me to science in the first place :seesaw

With any luck, the 'thermostatically controlled heat mat in a cool box' solution will provide a reliable long-term monitoring tool - watch this space ;)


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Re: Magnetometer Project

Post by swisswalter »

Hi Mike and Stuart

you've done it, congratulations


Only stardust in the wind, some fine and some less fine scopes, filters and adapters as well. Switzerland 47 N, 9 E, in the heart of EUROPE :)

from 7 am - 7 pm http://www.nanosys.ch

from 7.01 pm - 6.59 am http://www.wastronomiko.com some times vice versa ;)
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Re: Magnetometer Project - death of the fridge

Post by grimble_cornet »

Well, the weather has warmed up a little over the last few days and what I was afraid of has happened :evil:
Death of the fridge 1.jpg
Death of the fridge 1.jpg (113.87 KiB) Viewed 5492 times
The thermostat in the fridge cuts in as the temperature rises and we get a lovely 'spike' as the cooling cycle responds.

As can be seen from the image shown below, even a 2.5 degree change totally distorts the output from the Bat detector.
Death of the fridge 2.jpg
Death of the fridge 2.jpg (301.36 KiB) Viewed 5492 times
As the outside temperature continued to rise it became obvious that this 'cooling cycle' really sounded the death rattle for the 'fridge solution' :cry:
Death of the fridge 1a.jpg
Death of the fridge 1a.jpg (235.38 KiB) Viewed 5492 times

In anticipation of this problem I ordered the same heating mat and thermostat which Stuart uses. It arrived yesterday and I set up my 'foam wrapped' Bat detector in an old cool box along with the mat. The thermostat was set to 27 degrees C, my temperature probe inserted into the wrapping around the Bat detector and the whole lot left to equilibrate.

As the temperature of the Bat detector increased from about 8 to 27 degrees C, the output frequency changed dramatically but eventually stabilised and I left it to run overnight.
First run with heat mat.jpg
First run with heat mat.jpg (265.92 KiB) Viewed 5492 times
There is good news and bad news; as always :roll:

The thermostat has reduced the 'overnight temperature drop' and the 'central heating 8am boost' to less than 1 degree C.
The bad news is that even this 'oscillation' is enough to distort the trace :o

Next step is to try to improve the positioning and insulation around the cool box in an attempt to 'damp out' the temperature fluctuation to something close to the 0.3 degrees which is required for excellent results - watch this space :lol:


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Re: Magnetometer Project

Post by marktownley »

watching with interest!


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Re: Magnetometer Project

Post by Carbon60 »

Hi Mike,

It still surprises me just how temperature sensitive the Magenta 5 actually is, considering it's supposed to be 'digital quartz' tuned. More insulation around the box should help, of course. Warmer weather will also help :)


Stu.


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Re: Magnetometer Project

Post by Carbon60 »

Hi Mike,

Another option to consider, maybe, is using a high heat capacity filler within the box, surrounding the Magenta 5. Maybe cobbles or small stones to fill the space, since these will absorb and release heat, helping to smooth out the variations (like a brick block storage heater). This will be much more efficient than air as a way of storing heat.

Just a thought.

Stu.


H-alpha, WL and Ca II K imaging kit for various image scales.
Fluxgate Magnetometers (1s and 150s Cadence).
Radio meteor detector.
More images at http://www.flickr.com/photos/solarcarbon60/
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Re: Magnetometer Project

Post by grimble_cornet »

Good point Stuart - I had considered going down that route with the FGM-3 after reading a link from the Speake website.
I was slightly worried about what filling or insulation would be safe to use with the heat mat but I guess it generates so little heat that there is no real fire risk.
I would like to avoid taking the Bat detector out of its case as I would have to do to get it inside a vacuum jar as you have done so have been considering alternatives.
My next move (if additional padding around the cool box doesn't work) involves putting the Bat detector in a polythene bag surrounded by sand in a large tin or glass jar - exactly the same logic as your 'storage heater' suggestion.
Watch this space...........


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Re: Magnetometer Project

Post by Wah »

A swimming pool should have lots of heat capacity, you may put it under water~


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Re: Magnetometer Project

Post by swisswalter »

Hi Mike

I'm so sad to read about the death rattle of the fridge :cry:

Some of the best insulation material is aerogel, it may be worthwhile to try it


Only stardust in the wind, some fine and some less fine scopes, filters and adapters as well. Switzerland 47 N, 9 E, in the heart of EUROPE :)

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Re: Magnetometer Project

Post by grimble_cornet »

Interesting idea Wah :bow2

.....and water would certainly 'damp-down' the thermal oscillations BUT I think I have enough problems at the moment without introducing 'water + electronics = BANG' into the equation :oops:

Thanks for the aerogel suggestion Walter.
It does look like a possible solution. The 5mm blanket is not too expensive and is available in small quantities via the internet.

At the moment the cool box is wrapped, rather inelegantly, in a duvet and the temperature does seem quite stable with no significant change as the ambient temperature rises and falls by 6-8 degrees.
Heat mat plus duvet.jpg
Heat mat plus duvet.jpg (278.29 KiB) Viewed 5394 times
However, the trace does still seem to be drifting upwards - the basic frequency from the Bat detector has climbed steadily by about 50Hz since the temperature stabilised last night. This upward drift changes the overall shape of the trace when compared to the Intermagnet data although the individual 'micro-magnetic-events' are still captured.
Stuart has stressed several times that it does take a significant amount of time for things to settle down so........ think I will just leave it for a couple of days and see what happens before I explore a slightly more 'elegant' thermal insulation solution :lol: :P :lol:


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Re: Magnetometer Project

Post by swisswalter »

Yes Mike

you are on a state of the project where you have to take your time. No rapid changes anymore (maybe a beer more ;) )


Only stardust in the wind, some fine and some less fine scopes, filters and adapters as well. Switzerland 47 N, 9 E, in the heart of EUROPE :)

from 7 am - 7 pm http://www.nanosys.ch

from 7.01 pm - 6.59 am http://www.wastronomiko.com some times vice versa ;)
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Re: Magnetometer Project

Post by grimble_cornet »

Beer always helps - and now I can get it from the fridge without fear of disturbing the Bats :lol:


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Re: Magnetometer Project

Post by grimble_cornet »

Well this is interesting.................

After transferring the Bat detector from 8 degrees C in the fridge to 27 degrees C in the heated cool box I expected it to take some time to settle down but this is getting silly :o
4 days.jpg
During the first few hours the output of the Bat detector increased from about 2700Hz to about 3300Hz before is started to flatten out. So far, so good - this is exactly what has happened before :)

However, the increase continued over the next 12 hours although at a slower rate. As the temperature was still changing a little too much for comfort, I wrapped the cool box in a duvet and found that the heat mat and pulse thermostat was able to maintain the temperature within less than half a degree. This now pretty much matches Stuart's set up so surely the trace will now settle down :?:

Nope :evil:

After 60 hours of very well controlled temperatures - the frequency is still climbing at about 150Hz per day with no sign of it stopping or even slowing down :shock:
It is now at about 3760Hz - over 1000Hz higher than when it was in the fridge with nothing having changed other than the temperature of the Bat detector.

The good news is that it is picking up very small changes in the Earth's magnetic field and - if we ignore the relentless uphill climb - matches Intermagnet data very well.
Heat mat plus duvet.jpg
Heat mat plus duvet.jpg (278.29 KiB) Viewed 5365 times
The latest 24 hour record looks like this:
29th Jan 2015.jpg
29th Jan 2015.jpg (268.58 KiB) Viewed 5365 times
I'm a bit baffled now and not sure what to do next :?: :roll: :?:
I have cracked the temperature stability issue (albeit in a rather inelegant way via the duvet wrap) but can't work out why the frequency is still rising?
One part of me wants to just leave it and see just how high it will go...........
Another part wants to get in there and re-tune the Bat detector to bring the base frequency back down to 2800Hz or so and see if it will stabilise there.

Decisions, decisions....................

Good job that I enjoy a challenge :lol: :? :lol: :roll: :lol:


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Re: Magnetometer Project

Post by Carbon60 »

Hi Mike,

I would just leave it to settle down. It will eventually peak. Don't forget that the thermometer will be reading slightly differently to the true temperature of the detector (i.e. it is not actually sitting inside the plastic housing and measuring the temperature of the circuit board). I agree that after 60hrs it should be stable, but let's see how far up the scale it goes. There's still a lot of headroom on the spectrum ;)

Be aware that if it drifts too much then you will have to re-set the measurement frequency range selected for data acquisition.

Cheers

Stu


H-alpha, WL and Ca II K imaging kit for various image scales.
Fluxgate Magnetometers (1s and 150s Cadence).
Radio meteor detector.
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Re: Magnetometer Project

Post by Montana »

8 degrees to 27 degrees is quite a jump, especially when just 0.5 degree makes so much difference, it might take a while :)

Great data though :hamster:

Alexandra


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Re: Magnetometer Project

Post by grimble_cornet »

Thanks folks, I think you are right and I will just see what happens :roll:

I agree Alexandra that the data is pretty impressive - better than I would have dared to expect from a 'hobby electronics project' :beanie:

It is the need to re-set the frequency selection which makes me want to 'fiddle' but I'll let it settle first.

One question Stuart - the tone coming from the Bat detector seems very 'rough' with lots of quite harsh 'noise' rather than the fairly pure tone I would expect.
I could be wrong, but I think a lot of the 'noise' started when I moved over to a fairly simple 5v power supply (I think it powered a usb hub originally)?
Spectrum Lab seems to be coping with it and is able to identify the 'peak frequency' so, doesn't seem to be preventing me from picking up detailed data which matches Intermagnet data very well but I wondered if you got a 'cleaner' response by using the regulated supply shared with the FGM-3?


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Re: Magnetometer Project

Post by Carbon60 »

Hi Mike,

It sounds like the issue is going to be the power supply. Probably best to use something stable and regulated to avoid noise.

Cheers.

Stu.


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Re: Magnetometer Project

Post by grimble_cornet »

Thought it was flattening out last night but no........ still rising slowly!

It did pick up a minor 'event' very well yesterday evening though so I'm not going to change anything for a while :seesaw

The duvet seems to be working as the heat-mat plus pulse thermostat is now keeping the Bat detector stable to within about 0.3 degrees C :D
30th January 2015.jpg
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Re: Magnetometer Project

Post by Montana »

Nice peak :hamster:

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Re: Magnetometer Project

Post by marktownley »

Just thinking here, the circuit will naturally generate 'some' (small amount) heat by the nature it is turned on, if it is wrapped in the duvet all that heat will be trapped and the temperature will rise, gradually. maybe?


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Re: Magnetometer Project

Post by grimble_cornet »

Mmmmm. I had considered that but the box, inside the duvet, is thermostatically controlled with the heater running at 0-100% as required. Once the heating mat is switched off by the thermostat, the temperature in the box drops quite quickly before the heating is switched on again. The temperature probe is inside the foam shell surrounding the Bat detector so is measuring the temperature within about 2cm of the circuit board and remains stready to within 0.3 degrees.
Weird :shock:

5 days and counting...............
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Re: Magnetometer Project

Post by Carbon60 »

Hi Mike,

How's the voltage? If the temperature is stable, then the other variable is voltage (both on the sensor and the magenta 5).

Mark's correct about internal heating from the bat detector, but as you say, this should have stabilised by now, which brings us back to voltage. There's no substitute for a good electrical supply!

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Re: Magnetometer Project

Post by grimble_cornet »

That's an interesting point Stu :?: :idea: :?:

The sensor is powered from a 12v supply dropped to 5v and stabilised via the circuit you show in your project guide :D

The Bat 5 - as I said before - uses an old 5v hub power supply which I could replace by tapping another feed from the 12v supply - I have the components but didn't bother when the hub supply seemed to be working :oops:

I agree that the Bat 5 supply is the weakest link and it probably makes sense to upgrade BUT...... when the temperature was stable in the fridge, it was giving an almost perfect match to Intermagnet :roll:

Maybe things are different at 27 degrees?

Anyway, it seems to be almost flat now so I'll leave it for another 24 hours before considering a power supply upgrade, insulation tidy and Bat 5 re-tune.
31st January 2015.jpg


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Re: Magnetometer Project

Post by swisswalter »

Hi Mike

+/- 0.2 °C is very good. can you really do better ?


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Re: Magnetometer Project

Post by marktownley »

Are you using a 'wall wart' style power supply?


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Re: Magnetometer Project

Post by Carbon60 »

Hi Mike,

For reference, my data over the same period.
Coronal hole 20150131.jpg
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Re: Magnetometer Project

Post by swisswalter »

Hi Mike and Stuart


wonderful, you both are almost twins, to be identical twins however, there has to go more work into the Project ;)


Only stardust in the wind, some fine and some less fine scopes, filters and adapters as well. Switzerland 47 N, 9 E, in the heart of EUROPE :)

from 7 am - 7 pm http://www.nanosys.ch

from 7.01 pm - 6.59 am http://www.wastronomiko.com some times vice versa ;)
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Re: Magnetometer Project

Post by grimble_cornet »

Walter: no I don't think I can improve the temperature control. I would like to 'tidy up' the insulation by replacing the duvet with something more appropriate - maybe the aerogel you suggested?
Mark: yep, its a plug/transformer combo type. I know it's noisy and I can just tap into the supply to the sensor but I'm not convinced that it is the problem as I can get almost perfect data for hours at a time?
Stuart: thanks for the comparison:
31st January 2015 comparisons.jpg
31st January 2015 comparisons.jpg (259.48 KiB) Viewed 5277 times
Looking at the last 12-24 hours, it seems that the difference between my data and that from Intermagnet is little more than the difference between individual magnetometers contributing to Intermagnet :roll:


I might strip it down and take the opportunity to re-tune the Bat 5 tomorrow ;)


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Re: Magnetometer Project

Post by swisswalter »

Hi Mike

great results, fantastic results. BTW, don't you have to correct for the location on earth ?


Only stardust in the wind, some fine and some less fine scopes, filters and adapters as well. Switzerland 47 N, 9 E, in the heart of EUROPE :)

from 7 am - 7 pm http://www.nanosys.ch

from 7.01 pm - 6.59 am http://www.wastronomiko.com some times vice versa ;)
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Re: Magnetometer Project

Post by grimble_cornet »

Perfectly correct Walter - I have been looking at a range of magnetometers in 'Mid-latitude Europe'.

Anyway - very happy with today's trace which finished with a nice 80 nT peak which matches very well the data from the Intermagnet site :seesaw
February 1st 2015.jpg
February 1st 2015.jpg (310.59 KiB) Viewed 5267 times

:movie Don't think I can ask for much more than that :movie


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Re: Magnetometer Project

Post by swisswalter »

Hi Mike

what a fine catch, great match, congratulations


Only stardust in the wind, some fine and some less fine scopes, filters and adapters as well. Switzerland 47 N, 9 E, in the heart of EUROPE :)

from 7 am - 7 pm http://www.nanosys.ch

from 7.01 pm - 6.59 am http://www.wastronomiko.com some times vice versa ;)
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Re: Magnetometer Project

Post by Carbon60 »

Hi Mike,

I think we can conclude that 'SolarChat' magnetometers 1 and 2 are up and running well!

We just need a few more dotted around the globe to have a network :D


For anyone else on this forum, if you've read this far then you must have an interest in this sort of thing. As you can see, Mike has set up a fully functional magnetometer using little more than a FGM-3 sensor, an ultrasonic emitter, a bat detector and a lap-top. Key to this project is having a location that is free from magnetic disturbances, a good stable power supply (with some basic home electronics required) and excellent thermal management. There can be some challenges in all these things, but as Mike has shown, persistence wins and with some basic equipment suitable temperature stability can be achieved. I think the total cost is in the region of £250-£300, including sensor, detector and heater/thermostat.

I'd encourage anyone who can meet the 'free from magnetic disturbances' criteria to have a go. More details on how to construct this device can be found in the tutorial section.

Good luck.

Stu.


H-alpha, WL and Ca II K imaging kit for various image scales.
Fluxgate Magnetometers (1s and 150s Cadence).
Radio meteor detector.
More images at http://www.flickr.com/photos/solarcarbon60/
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