Magnetometer Project

I LOVE finding out about different ways to appreciate the Sun and light in general. Use this forum to post your info or questions about various outside the mainstream ways to appreciate our life giving star!
User avatar
grimble_cornet
Way More Fun to Share It!!
Way More Fun to Share It!!
Posts: 3496
Joined: Tue Jul 10, 2012 5:10 pm
Location: UK West Midlands

Re: Magnetometer Project

Post by grimble_cornet » Tue Jan 20, 2015 12:30 pm

Thanks guys - it certainly proves that the project is realistic :seesaw

The 'beer fridge' is just a 'cheapo' old fridge which lives in my extension and is used to store milk and beer. Your point about opening the door is a good one and the 25m lead to the buried sensor will only just reach it. I am also less than convinced that the fridge will maintain the temperature as accurately in the summer so ...................... its not really a long term solution.

If I was convinced that a small 'beer fridge' would work, I would install one in the observatory (yeah :P ) but I suspect that it would show more variation than a full size fridge.

I have pretty much decided to follow Stuart's solution using a heat mat plus a 'pulse' thermostat in a cool-box to maintain the temperature. This could live in the observatory or in the house within easy reach of the sensor cable.

Let's see what a 24 hour run produces once I change over to Stuart's 150 second sample routine.
.

.



.


Mike Garbett

Selection of Solar and Deep Sky images on Flickr: https://www.flickr.com/photos/mikegarbett/

User avatar
swisswalter
Way More Fun to Share It!!
Way More Fun to Share It!!
Posts: 17951
Joined: Thu Feb 06, 2014 4:28 am
Location: Switzerland
Contact:

Re: Magnetometer Project

Post by swisswalter » Tue Jan 20, 2015 11:42 pm

Hi Mike

great results with the fridge. I'm sad to see you leaving that simple method though, but I do understand the need of a beer or two a day ;)
Only stardust in the wind, some fine and some less fine scopes, filters and adapters as well. Switzerland 47 N, 9 E, in the heart of EUROPE :)

from 7 am - 7 pm http://www.nanosys.ch

from 7.01 pm - 6.59 am http://www.wastronomiko.com some times vice versa ;)

User avatar
grimble_cornet
Way More Fun to Share It!!
Way More Fun to Share It!!
Posts: 3496
Joined: Tue Jul 10, 2012 5:10 pm
Location: UK West Midlands

Re: Magnetometer Project

Post by grimble_cornet » Wed Jan 21, 2015 12:32 am

Don't worry Walter, I have other stores of Beer (and wine) in other fridges :P



Well, here we go - a full 24 hour cycle of The Beer Fridge Magnetometer

24 hours in the beer fridge.jpg
I have 'smoothed' my data in the top right graph to simulate Stuart's 150 second sample rate - the top left graph shows my original 30 second data.

The agreement with the Niemegk data is not perfect - there is some variation from about 11am but each station seems to show a slightly different curve during times of low magnetic activity so........ not sure how concerned I should be about that?
The fridge temperature has been very consistent if you believe what the probe is reporting and the outside temperature has only varied by about 3 degrees C over the last 24 hours so I don't think the buried sensor will have been influenced very much?
.

.



.


Mike Garbett

Selection of Solar and Deep Sky images on Flickr: https://www.flickr.com/photos/mikegarbett/

User avatar
swisswalter
Way More Fun to Share It!!
Way More Fun to Share It!!
Posts: 17951
Joined: Thu Feb 06, 2014 4:28 am
Location: Switzerland
Contact:

Re: Magnetometer Project

Post by swisswalter » Wed Jan 21, 2015 5:25 am

Hi Mike

but that looks very promissing, almost perfect
Only stardust in the wind, some fine and some less fine scopes, filters and adapters as well. Switzerland 47 N, 9 E, in the heart of EUROPE :)

from 7 am - 7 pm http://www.nanosys.ch

from 7.01 pm - 6.59 am http://www.wastronomiko.com some times vice versa ;)

User avatar
marktownley
Librarian
Librarian
Posts: 24533
Joined: Tue Oct 18, 2011 5:27 pm
Location: Brierley Hills, UK
Contact:

Re: Magnetometer Project

Post by marktownley » Wed Jan 21, 2015 6:59 am

I agree looks good. Longer term testing and evaluation required!
Image
http://brierleyhillsolar.blogspot.co.uk/
Solar images, a collection of all the most up to date live solar data on the web, imaging & processing tutorials - please take a look!

User avatar
grimble_cornet
Way More Fun to Share It!!
Way More Fun to Share It!!
Posts: 3496
Joined: Tue Jul 10, 2012 5:10 pm
Location: UK West Midlands

Re: Magnetometer Project

Post by grimble_cornet » Wed Jan 21, 2015 12:19 pm

Your wish is my command:

I intend to run it from the fridge for a few days just to make sure that other aspects of the gear are behaving. I will then decide on a permanent set-up for the Bat 5 end of the cable.

In the meantime, here we have 42 hours of data from The Beer Fridge:
42 hours in the Beer Fridge.jpg
Here's to Walter for his inspiring idea:
Cheers.jpg
Cheers.jpg (38.88 KiB) Viewed 1929 times

And finally, here is this morning's data in more detail using Stuart's 150 second sampling rate - seems very 'frisky' with lots of 'pulses' when compared to Intermagnet?
A very active trace.jpg
.

.



.


Mike Garbett

Selection of Solar and Deep Sky images on Flickr: https://www.flickr.com/photos/mikegarbett/

User avatar
Montana
Way More Fun to Share It!!
Way More Fun to Share It!!
Posts: 19800
Joined: Mon Oct 17, 2011 5:25 pm
Location: Cheshire, UK

Re: Magnetometer Project

Post by Montana » Wed Jan 21, 2015 12:47 pm

Well done Mike :hamster: :hamster: :hamster: we just need a CME now :)

Alexandra

User avatar
grimble_cornet
Way More Fun to Share It!!
Way More Fun to Share It!!
Posts: 3496
Joined: Tue Jul 10, 2012 5:10 pm
Location: UK West Midlands

Re: Magnetometer Project

Post by grimble_cornet » Wed Jan 21, 2015 12:53 pm

YES :band

That would be very nice :P
.

.



.


Mike Garbett

Selection of Solar and Deep Sky images on Flickr: https://www.flickr.com/photos/mikegarbett/

User avatar
marktownley
Librarian
Librarian
Posts: 24533
Joined: Tue Oct 18, 2011 5:27 pm
Location: Brierley Hills, UK
Contact:

Re: Magnetometer Project

Post by marktownley » Wed Jan 21, 2015 5:50 pm

Is it worth putting an RF supressor on the fridge? They are 'electrically noisy' things as they turn on an off, and can play havoc with expensive hifi's - maybe they could have an adverse effect on the bat detector unit?
Image
http://brierleyhillsolar.blogspot.co.uk/
Solar images, a collection of all the most up to date live solar data on the web, imaging & processing tutorials - please take a look!

User avatar
grimble_cornet
Way More Fun to Share It!!
Way More Fun to Share It!!
Posts: 3496
Joined: Tue Jul 10, 2012 5:10 pm
Location: UK West Midlands

Re: Magnetometer Project

Post by grimble_cornet » Wed Jan 21, 2015 6:55 pm

It wouldn't surprise me if the fridge was generating noise Mark :oops:

I have had the washing machine and spin dryer, which live in the same room, working hard this afternoon so it will be interesting to look at tonight's trace :roll:
.

.



.


Mike Garbett

Selection of Solar and Deep Sky images on Flickr: https://www.flickr.com/photos/mikegarbett/

User avatar
Carbon60
Way More Fun to Share It!!
Way More Fun to Share It!!
Posts: 5491
Joined: Wed Mar 07, 2012 12:33 pm
Location: Lancashire, UK

Re: Magnetometer Project

Post by Carbon60 » Wed Jan 21, 2015 7:30 pm

Hi Mike,

I don't know how 'remote' your sensor is in relation to other sources of interference, but these things are so sensitive that you could also be detecting movement of cars in the street, or other such things. From 20m away I can detect vehicles turning in our Cul-de-sac. The deviation only needs only to be a few nT to appear significant.

I think your system is now up and running really well for a home made system operating in a garden environment. Professional systems will be located in a remote field quite some distance from any sources of interference.

Wait for a CME event and I'm confident that you'll be more than happy with the magnetometer response. :band

Stu.
Lunt LS60THa B1200 PTFT
150mm H-alpha Solar telescope with Lunt35 mod
DMK41, Basler acA1920-155
NEQ6 Pro-mount
Fluxgate Magnetometers (1s and 150s Cadence)
More images at http://www.flickr.com/photos/solarcarbon60/

Wah
Im an EXPERT!
Im an EXPERT!
Posts: 339
Joined: Tue May 01, 2012 2:14 am

Re: Magnetometer Project

Post by Wah » Thu Jan 22, 2015 12:17 am

Congratulations! Good to see such amateur professional results and I am now trying to introduce this to some of my friends from mainland China~

User avatar
grimble_cornet
Way More Fun to Share It!!
Way More Fun to Share It!!
Posts: 3496
Joined: Tue Jul 10, 2012 5:10 pm
Location: UK West Midlands

Re: Magnetometer Project

Post by grimble_cornet » Thu Jan 22, 2015 12:05 pm

Thank you Wah and I am pleased to hear that you are encouraging others to try this project - I have had a lot of fun getting to work.
.

.



.


Mike Garbett

Selection of Solar and Deep Sky images on Flickr: https://www.flickr.com/photos/mikegarbett/

User avatar
grimble_cornet
Way More Fun to Share It!!
Way More Fun to Share It!!
Posts: 3496
Joined: Tue Jul 10, 2012 5:10 pm
Location: UK West Midlands

Re: Magnetometer Project

Post by grimble_cornet » Thu Jan 22, 2015 12:29 pm

Thanks Stuart; I am pretty happy with the results I'm getting since moving into the fridge :lol:

I had the washing machine and tumble dryer working yesterday and they live next to the fridge :o
I got a temperature swing in the fridge (only a degree or so) but it had only a small impact on the results:

Here is 54 hours of Bat in the Fridge data compared with Intermagnet:
54 hours of Magnetometry.jpg
54 hours of Magnetometry.jpg (279.69 KiB) Viewed 1880 times
I'm pretty impressed with the correlation - especially now I realise how much the 'scaling' changes the appearance of the published graphs and makes it very difficult to combine 2 or 3 days worth of data.




I moved over to 150s samples for temperature and magnetic data last night and am very happy with the detail recorded during a minor event early this morning :seesaw
22nd January 150s data.jpg

Anyway: I have decided to bite the bullet and have ordered a heat mat and thermostat - same models as you use - to create a permanent recording station without being concerned by fridge access, washing machine interactions etc. :lol: :D :lol:
.

.



.


Mike Garbett

Selection of Solar and Deep Sky images on Flickr: https://www.flickr.com/photos/mikegarbett/

User avatar
Montana
Way More Fun to Share It!!
Way More Fun to Share It!!
Posts: 19800
Joined: Mon Oct 17, 2011 5:25 pm
Location: Cheshire, UK

Re: Magnetometer Project

Post by Montana » Thu Jan 22, 2015 12:43 pm

Congratulations :hamster: :hamster: :hamster: we now have an aurora alert base in the midlands too :hamster:

Alexandra

User avatar
swisswalter
Way More Fun to Share It!!
Way More Fun to Share It!!
Posts: 17951
Joined: Thu Feb 06, 2014 4:28 am
Location: Switzerland
Contact:

Re: Magnetometer Project

Post by swisswalter » Thu Jan 22, 2015 12:52 pm

Hi Mike

just wonderful results and many thanks for the beer ;)
Only stardust in the wind, some fine and some less fine scopes, filters and adapters as well. Switzerland 47 N, 9 E, in the heart of EUROPE :)

from 7 am - 7 pm http://www.nanosys.ch

from 7.01 pm - 6.59 am http://www.wastronomiko.com some times vice versa ;)

User avatar
marktownley
Librarian
Librarian
Posts: 24533
Joined: Tue Oct 18, 2011 5:27 pm
Location: Brierley Hills, UK
Contact:

Re: Magnetometer Project

Post by marktownley » Thu Jan 22, 2015 6:29 pm

Very funky!
Image
http://brierleyhillsolar.blogspot.co.uk/
Solar images, a collection of all the most up to date live solar data on the web, imaging & processing tutorials - please take a look!

User avatar
Carbon60
Way More Fun to Share It!!
Way More Fun to Share It!!
Posts: 5491
Joined: Wed Mar 07, 2012 12:33 pm
Location: Lancashire, UK

Re: Magnetometer Project

Post by Carbon60 » Thu Jan 22, 2015 8:18 pm

Hi Mike,

As a point of reference, here are my data from the same period. Looks like we're in pretty good agreement. :band
Unsettled Geomag 20150122.jpg
Unsettled Geomag 20150122.jpg (82.9 KiB) Viewed 1843 times
Stu.
Lunt LS60THa B1200 PTFT
150mm H-alpha Solar telescope with Lunt35 mod
DMK41, Basler acA1920-155
NEQ6 Pro-mount
Fluxgate Magnetometers (1s and 150s Cadence)
More images at http://www.flickr.com/photos/solarcarbon60/

User avatar
grimble_cornet
Way More Fun to Share It!!
Way More Fun to Share It!!
Posts: 3496
Joined: Tue Jul 10, 2012 5:10 pm
Location: UK West Midlands

Re: Magnetometer Project

Post by grimble_cornet » Thu Jan 22, 2015 10:48 pm

Thanks for all of your support and encouragement folks :bow2

This thread seems to have generated a lot of interest and I hope other people will be motivated to have a go.
For me, it has provided precisely the complex, multi-variable, problem solving challenge which attracted me to science in the first place :seesaw

With any luck, the 'thermostatically controlled heat mat in a cool box' solution will provide a reliable long-term monitoring tool - watch this space ;)
.

.



.


Mike Garbett

Selection of Solar and Deep Sky images on Flickr: https://www.flickr.com/photos/mikegarbett/

User avatar
swisswalter
Way More Fun to Share It!!
Way More Fun to Share It!!
Posts: 17951
Joined: Thu Feb 06, 2014 4:28 am
Location: Switzerland
Contact:

Re: Magnetometer Project

Post by swisswalter » Fri Jan 23, 2015 6:24 am

Hi Mike and Stuart

you've done it, congratulations
Only stardust in the wind, some fine and some less fine scopes, filters and adapters as well. Switzerland 47 N, 9 E, in the heart of EUROPE :)

from 7 am - 7 pm http://www.nanosys.ch

from 7.01 pm - 6.59 am http://www.wastronomiko.com some times vice versa ;)

User avatar
grimble_cornet
Way More Fun to Share It!!
Way More Fun to Share It!!
Posts: 3496
Joined: Tue Jul 10, 2012 5:10 pm
Location: UK West Midlands

Re: Magnetometer Project - death of the fridge

Post by grimble_cornet » Tue Jan 27, 2015 4:12 pm

Well, the weather has warmed up a little over the last few days and what I was afraid of has happened :evil:
Death of the fridge 1.jpg
Death of the fridge 1.jpg (113.87 KiB) Viewed 1788 times
The thermostat in the fridge cuts in as the temperature rises and we get a lovely 'spike' as the cooling cycle responds.

As can be seen from the image shown below, even a 2.5 degree change totally distorts the output from the Bat detector.
Death of the fridge 2.jpg
Death of the fridge 2.jpg (301.36 KiB) Viewed 1788 times
As the outside temperature continued to rise it became obvious that this 'cooling cycle' really sounded the death rattle for the 'fridge solution' :cry:
Death of the fridge 1a.jpg
Death of the fridge 1a.jpg (235.38 KiB) Viewed 1788 times

In anticipation of this problem I ordered the same heating mat and thermostat which Stuart uses. It arrived yesterday and I set up my 'foam wrapped' Bat detector in an old cool box along with the mat. The thermostat was set to 27 degrees C, my temperature probe inserted into the wrapping around the Bat detector and the whole lot left to equilibrate.

As the temperature of the Bat detector increased from about 8 to 27 degrees C, the output frequency changed dramatically but eventually stabilised and I left it to run overnight.
First run with heat mat.jpg
First run with heat mat.jpg (265.92 KiB) Viewed 1788 times
There is good news and bad news; as always :roll:

The thermostat has reduced the 'overnight temperature drop' and the 'central heating 8am boost' to less than 1 degree C.
The bad news is that even this 'oscillation' is enough to distort the trace :o

Next step is to try to improve the positioning and insulation around the cool box in an attempt to 'damp out' the temperature fluctuation to something close to the 0.3 degrees which is required for excellent results - watch this space :lol:
.

.



.


Mike Garbett

Selection of Solar and Deep Sky images on Flickr: https://www.flickr.com/photos/mikegarbett/

User avatar
marktownley
Librarian
Librarian
Posts: 24533
Joined: Tue Oct 18, 2011 5:27 pm
Location: Brierley Hills, UK
Contact:

Re: Magnetometer Project

Post by marktownley » Tue Jan 27, 2015 7:50 pm

watching with interest!
Image
http://brierleyhillsolar.blogspot.co.uk/
Solar images, a collection of all the most up to date live solar data on the web, imaging & processing tutorials - please take a look!

User avatar
Carbon60
Way More Fun to Share It!!
Way More Fun to Share It!!
Posts: 5491
Joined: Wed Mar 07, 2012 12:33 pm
Location: Lancashire, UK

Re: Magnetometer Project

Post by Carbon60 » Tue Jan 27, 2015 9:19 pm

Hi Mike,

It still surprises me just how temperature sensitive the Magenta 5 actually is, considering it's supposed to be 'digital quartz' tuned. More insulation around the box should help, of course. Warmer weather will also help :)


Stu.
Lunt LS60THa B1200 PTFT
150mm H-alpha Solar telescope with Lunt35 mod
DMK41, Basler acA1920-155
NEQ6 Pro-mount
Fluxgate Magnetometers (1s and 150s Cadence)
More images at http://www.flickr.com/photos/solarcarbon60/

User avatar
Carbon60
Way More Fun to Share It!!
Way More Fun to Share It!!
Posts: 5491
Joined: Wed Mar 07, 2012 12:33 pm
Location: Lancashire, UK

Re: Magnetometer Project

Post by Carbon60 » Tue Jan 27, 2015 10:06 pm

Hi Mike,

Another option to consider, maybe, is using a high heat capacity filler within the box, surrounding the Magenta 5. Maybe cobbles or small stones to fill the space, since these will absorb and release heat, helping to smooth out the variations (like a brick block storage heater). This will be much more efficient than air as a way of storing heat.

Just a thought.

Stu.
Lunt LS60THa B1200 PTFT
150mm H-alpha Solar telescope with Lunt35 mod
DMK41, Basler acA1920-155
NEQ6 Pro-mount
Fluxgate Magnetometers (1s and 150s Cadence)
More images at http://www.flickr.com/photos/solarcarbon60/

User avatar
grimble_cornet
Way More Fun to Share It!!
Way More Fun to Share It!!
Posts: 3496
Joined: Tue Jul 10, 2012 5:10 pm
Location: UK West Midlands

Re: Magnetometer Project

Post by grimble_cornet » Tue Jan 27, 2015 11:22 pm

Good point Stuart - I had considered going down that route with the FGM-3 after reading a link from the Speake website.
I was slightly worried about what filling or insulation would be safe to use with the heat mat but I guess it generates so little heat that there is no real fire risk.
I would like to avoid taking the Bat detector out of its case as I would have to do to get it inside a vacuum jar as you have done so have been considering alternatives.
My next move (if additional padding around the cool box doesn't work) involves putting the Bat detector in a polythene bag surrounded by sand in a large tin or glass jar - exactly the same logic as your 'storage heater' suggestion.
Watch this space...........
.

.



.


Mike Garbett

Selection of Solar and Deep Sky images on Flickr: https://www.flickr.com/photos/mikegarbett/

Post Reply

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 1 guest