Magnetometer Project

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swisswalter
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Re: Magnetometer Project

Post by swisswalter » Mon Jan 12, 2015 9:25 pm

grimble_cornet wrote:Thank you Walter - like the best crime thrillers, I try to finish each instalment with a 'cliff hanger' ........... what will happen next :?: :roll: :?:
Hi Mike

it is very clear what happens next. The bats change the frequency :lol:
Only stardust in the wind, some fine and some less fine scopes, filters and adapters as well. Switzerland 47 N, 9 E, in the heart of EUROPE :)

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Re: Magnetometer Project

Post by grimble_cornet » Tue Jan 13, 2015 1:14 am

You could be right Walter but...................... I have them on the run :lol:

I let the magnetometer settle down for about 2 hours after connecting the new, stabilised 5v power supply and placing the detector in the shed.

This is what I have as I head off to bed. I have downloaded the recording from the Dourbes station for comparison and................. unless Walter's ghost is playing tricks.... I think we may be making progress:
1st 6 hours with new stabilised power supply.jpg
.

.



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Re: Magnetometer Project

Post by swisswalter » Tue Jan 13, 2015 5:12 am

Hi Mike

that looks very promissing
Only stardust in the wind, some fine and some less fine scopes, filters and adapters as well. Switzerland 47 N, 9 E, in the heart of EUROPE :)

from 7 am - 7 pm http://www.nanosys.ch

from 7.01 pm - 6.59 am http://www.wastronomiko.com some times vice versa ;)

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Re: Magnetometer Project

Post by marktownley » Tue Jan 13, 2015 6:33 am

It does look promising...
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http://brierleyhillsolar.blogspot.co.uk/
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Re: Magnetometer Project

Post by Carbon60 » Tue Jan 13, 2015 6:56 am

Very promising, Mike.

The alternative is to turn the sensor 180 degrees and this will invert the effect.

Stu
Lunt LS60THa B1200 PTFT
150mm H-alpha Solar telescope with Lunt35 mod
DMK41, Basler acA1920-155
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Fluxgate Magnetometers (1s and 150s Cadence)
More images at http://www.flickr.com/photos/solarcarbon60/

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Re: Magnetometer Project

Post by Montana » Tue Jan 13, 2015 10:07 am

I'm enjoying this thriller too :) will the next installment include 'the neighbours rang the police as they thought I was burying some unusual cylinders with wires coming out at the bottom the garden' :lol:

Alexandra

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Re: Magnetometer Project

Post by grimble_cornet » Tue Jan 13, 2015 12:10 pm

Just been doing that so..........wait and see if we get flashing blue lights : :beanie:

....or even a signal :oops: :o :oops: :roll: :oops:
.

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Re: Magnetometer Project

Post by swisswalter » Tue Jan 13, 2015 7:43 pm

Hi Mike

do you have a decent rifle ? Just in case ;)
Only stardust in the wind, some fine and some less fine scopes, filters and adapters as well. Switzerland 47 N, 9 E, in the heart of EUROPE :)

from 7 am - 7 pm http://www.nanosys.ch

from 7.01 pm - 6.59 am http://www.wastronomiko.com some times vice versa ;)

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Re: Magnetometer Project

Post by grimble_cornet » Tue Jan 13, 2015 11:14 pm

No rifle Walter but I can hide in the shed :oops:

OK........ on to Phase 4

After the 'packaged' sensor with its new stable power supply had been running overnight in the shed I once again compared my plot with the Intermagnet web data from Dourbes.
Main trace.jpg
Main trace.jpg (124.71 KiB) Viewed 1721 times
Unfortunately the nice agreement had been lost and the trace showed a big dip - I assume as the temperature dropped overnight and started rise again?
There is a very interesting 'blip' at 09.03 - when I opened up the shed/observatory to set up for a quick imaging session - boy, is this thing sensitive to temperature :oops:

Good News:
The new 5v supply has given some data that can be mapped to professional data :band

Bad News:
This performance is clearly compromised by changes in temperature :cry: :roll: :cry:



OK - now for a solution..........

After wasting an hour trying to image between the ever thickening clouds......... I packed up my gear, decided to bite the bullet and started to dig a hole :o

My garden has about 12" (30cm) of soil over heavy clay and building rubble so this was never going to be easy. After about an hour of digging and cursing I had a hole about 18" (45cm) deep with a solid clay base, away from metal objects and in the shade of a tree - probably as good as its going to get without major work.
I placed a concrete slab in the bottom - checked it was level in all directions using a spirit level - and added the waterproof sensor tube, bolted to a wooden plank. Checked again that it was level and used the Gyrocompass on my iPad to orientate the sensor E-W.
A bit of careful back-filling and routing of the cable along the fence line and viola - we have a thermally insulated (buried) sensor :seesaw


Back in the house, I re-tuned the Bat 5 and then placed it in a plastic sandwich box surrounded by foam packaging.
This was then placed in a cool box also packed with insulating foam.
I think I have now done as much as I can - short of placing everything in thermostatically controlled packaging as Stuart has done :P


OK - this was at about 12.30 and I gave it an hour or so before before starting to record data.
The trace settled down quite quickly and was soon seen to be moving up and down rather than just drifting as it has in the past when voltage and temperature changes were clearly more significant than changes in the magnetic field.

At 9pm I fed the data collected into Stuart's spreadsheet and tweaked the graph to show it to best effect.
I then downloaded data from the Dourbes Magnetometer; scaled, inverted and tweaked it for comparison with my data and got this:
First buried run.jpg
There seems to be some general agreement between the two data sets. It is quite difficult to get the time-lines to match and there are minor differences in detail but.......................... not bad for a first run.
There is nothing very dramatic happening at the moment with the trace staying between -20 and +10 nT. This is much smaller than the 140nT swings shown by some of Stuart's captures so........ maybe there is better to come.

I'm a bit baffled as to why my readings are all around the +19 or 20 nT value whereas the Dourbes data ranges from -20 to +10 nT??????????


Also not sure why my Rate of Change graph only shows a change of +/- 0.02 ????????????/

I will have another look at the spreadsheet - and hope Stuart comes riding to the rescue :oops:


I'm going to try re-tuning the Bat 5 to invert the trace and leave it running for a day before re-assessing progress.

Watch this space for the next thrilling instalment of........................ The Magnetometer Project
.

.



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Mike Garbett

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Re: Magnetometer Project

Post by grimble_cornet » Wed Jan 14, 2015 12:04 am

UPDATE..............

Just transferred the data to a different spreadsheet blank and the graph scaling problems have gone away :seesaw

I have reset the system and left it to run for 24 hours as a real challenge.

Just before I head off to bed......................... here is the final set of graphs from today's virgin run plus the updated Intermagnet data:
First run with buried sensor plus Dourbes data.jpg
The first hour or so of my data was when the newly buried sensor was adjusting to the new temperature but after that...... the agreement with the Dourbes data is quite pleasing :P :D :P

It's snowing now so - good job I dug the hole today :roll:
.

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Re: Magnetometer Project

Post by swisswalter » Wed Jan 14, 2015 5:32 am

Hi Mike

what a Story. Great results in the first hours of Phase 4. Looking forward to Phase 5
Only stardust in the wind, some fine and some less fine scopes, filters and adapters as well. Switzerland 47 N, 9 E, in the heart of EUROPE :)

from 7 am - 7 pm http://www.nanosys.ch

from 7.01 pm - 6.59 am http://www.wastronomiko.com some times vice versa ;)

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Re: Magnetometer Project

Post by Carbon60 » Wed Jan 14, 2015 7:15 am

Nice updates, Mike.

Almost there.........

With scaling, you need to ensure that when you cut and paste the data into the spreadsheet that there is no 'residual' data from the previous dataset as this will be included in the calculations which scale the results (taking the minimum and maximum values from the listed data).

Also, you can adjust the values in cells K3 and K4 accordingly. If column A contains ONLY the data of relevance from the session and no 'residuals' then the chart will be scaled to within the values given.

It may take another 2-3 days for everything to settle down as the soil around the sensor and the sensor equilibrate in terms of temperature.

We're in a period of geomagnetic quiet at the moment, so you're really looking at some fine detail. In a few days and with a passing CME or fast flowing solar wind you'll really see a satisfying response. :D

Nice job.

Stu.
Lunt LS60THa B1200 PTFT
150mm H-alpha Solar telescope with Lunt35 mod
DMK41, Basler acA1920-155
NEQ6 Pro-mount
Fluxgate Magnetometers (1s and 150s Cadence)
More images at http://www.flickr.com/photos/solarcarbon60/

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Re: Magnetometer Project

Post by Montana » Wed Jan 14, 2015 10:15 am

:hamster: :hamster: :hamster:

Alexandra

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Re: Magnetometer Project

Post by grimble_cornet » Wed Jan 14, 2015 1:37 pm

Ah........the Buckyball moves away and Stuart is revealed :movie


Thanks for the feedback Stuart - and for the encouragement Alexandra and Walter :bow2

I have been playing around with scaling of various types in your original spreadsheet - pasting short data sets in and tweaking the graphs to probe for drift etc. I think I just lost track of the various tweaks I had done until I noticed the silly axis values. Pasting the data into a 'clean' version of your updated spreadsheet produced much better results :D
Having made the 'leaving residual data' mistake once, I won't do it again :oops:

The overnight run has produced some interesting results:
14th 0000-1200 My data v Niemagk.jpg
14th 0000-1200 My data v Niemagk.jpg (193.22 KiB) Viewed 1701 times
From midnight until about 0800 ut the two data sets are clearly related BUT at that point my data starts a major increase as the Intermagnet data starts a major fall :?:
Checking the overnight meteorological data shows no significant change in temperature between midnight (0.9 deg) and 9am (0.7 deg); in fact it was only 3 degrees at 11am as I was clearing the snow from my car!
However, my central heating switches on at 8am ..................... :idea: :idea: :idea: :idea: :idea: :idea:
Even with the Bat 5 in an insulated plastic box which is inside a coolbox........... could this be the problem?
My central heating switches off at 10am and back on at 4pm - let's see what happens to the data during the rest of the day.

Will it rise or will it fall?
Will the bats use esp to influence the readings as Walter predicted...... ?

Tune in later for the next instalment of: The Magnetometer Project
.

.



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Re: Magnetometer Project

Post by marktownley » Wed Jan 14, 2015 5:58 pm

A fantastic read Mike!
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Re: Magnetometer Project

Post by Carbon60 » Wed Jan 14, 2015 9:25 pm

Mike,

Good news; there's a CME heading our way (sort of). Maybe it will deliver a glancing blow, anyhow. If it does arrive (tomorrow), then there is a chance that you'll see a decent magnetic response and we can compare notes after the event.

It's surprising how sensitive the Magenta 5 is to temperature, as well as the sensor. I believe you're seeing some thermal effects in your results.

It's no doubt possible to correct for this in the spreadsheet by taking regular temperature readings at the magenta 5 using a digital thermometer connected to the laptop. Maybe a future mod.......

Yep, I decided to come out of the shadow of the Bucky ball :lol:

Stu.
Lunt LS60THa B1200 PTFT
150mm H-alpha Solar telescope with Lunt35 mod
DMK41, Basler acA1920-155
NEQ6 Pro-mount
Fluxgate Magnetometers (1s and 150s Cadence)
More images at http://www.flickr.com/photos/solarcarbon60/

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Re: Magnetometer Project

Post by grimble_cornet » Wed Jan 14, 2015 9:48 pm

Hi Stuart.
Great minds think alike.................... I ordered a cheapo digital temperature logger from Amazon earlier today as I had exactly the same thought; that by pasting the temperature into the same spreadsheet, I could generate a correction factor :lol: :o :lol:

I have been looking at the data from a number of different European Magnetometers on Intermagnet - interesting to see the different values and the slightly different timings for distinct changes. Is there one station that you tend to use for comparison?

It is coming up to 24 hours of recording with the current set-up and there are some very interesting matches with Intermagnet data - I'll post the images later.
.

.



.


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Re: Magnetometer Project

Post by Carbon60 » Wed Jan 14, 2015 10:25 pm

Out of interest I've plotted today's data from Niemagk and compared my own. Yours should be close to mine, so we'll need to see where the differences between our datasets are coming from.
Comparison.jpg
Comparison.jpg (91.11 KiB) Viewed 1687 times
It will be interesting to see your new data.

BTW I usually use Chambon la Foret, but for no particular reason.

Cheers

Stu.
Lunt LS60THa B1200 PTFT
150mm H-alpha Solar telescope with Lunt35 mod
DMK41, Basler acA1920-155
NEQ6 Pro-mount
Fluxgate Magnetometers (1s and 150s Cadence)
More images at http://www.flickr.com/photos/solarcarbon60/

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Re: Magnetometer Project

Post by grimble_cornet » Wed Jan 14, 2015 11:49 pm

Your wish is my command:
Stuart Mike and Intermagnet 14th Jan 2015.jpg
There are some quite clear areas of agreement between my data, Stuart's data and the Intermagnet plot BUT also clear differences.

The Good:
The overall shape of my plot is the same (with the exceptions covered below).
The key 'blips' - where a rapid up/down occurs in the field - line up pretty well.

The Bad:
My plot has far less fine-detail (i.e. it is much smoother)
At approx 0800 my plot GOES UP while the others GO DOWN but from approx 1000 the line reverses and starts to match the others again :cry:
At approx 1600 my plot starts to go upwards again although it still matches the up/down 'blips' of the others.
Just before 2100 all three traces show a rapid change but mine doesn't drop as much as the others.

Suggestions?
My central heating comes on at 0800 and switches off at 1000 - this matches the anomaly seen in the trace :idea:
It switches on again at 1600 - again matching the time when my trace diverges from the others :idea:
Is the Bat 5 really so sensitive that it shows these effects even though it is in an insulated box inside a coolbox?
Is it possible that my signal is being 'swamped' by larger 'temperature effects' and this why it seems to lack fine detail?

If we look at a magnified view of my data from 1200-1500 and compare it to Stuart's data.......
magnified.jpg
magnified.jpg (92.04 KiB) Viewed 1682 times
There seems to be plenty of detail in there - it's just being smoothed out as the data is scaled to compensate for the thermal changes..... maybe?

The only other thing I can think of is that I have made a few changes to Stuart's script in Spectrum Lab. Most of these are just adjustments to suit my ultrasound signal (centred around 2900Hz), the tuning of my Bat detector (Null Frequency at 69.3kH and Tuned to Frequency of 72.9kH) and the shorter sampling interval (30s for me compared to 150s for Stuart). I don't see that these should make much difference :roll:

Depending upon the response from my mentor............
The next stage could involve me looking for an even better insulating solution for the Bat 5.
I am starting to understand why Stuart has his in a vacuum flask, inside a coolbox, heated by a thermostatically controlled heating mat :lol: :o :lol: :roll: :lol:
.

.



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Re: Magnetometer Project

Post by swisswalter » Thu Jan 15, 2015 5:59 am

Hi Mike

the great story goes on. Think about switsching off the central heating ;)
Only stardust in the wind, some fine and some less fine scopes, filters and adapters as well. Switzerland 47 N, 9 E, in the heart of EUROPE :)

from 7 am - 7 pm http://www.nanosys.ch

from 7.01 pm - 6.59 am http://www.wastronomiko.com some times vice versa ;)

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Re: Magnetometer Project

Post by Carbon60 » Thu Jan 15, 2015 7:04 am

Hi Mike,

Please send me via email your excel spreadsheet with the corresponding data in column 'A'. I can then make closer comparisons with my own data and try to see what's happening. Like you, I suspect thermal effects are at play.

Regards

Stu.
Lunt LS60THa B1200 PTFT
150mm H-alpha Solar telescope with Lunt35 mod
DMK41, Basler acA1920-155
NEQ6 Pro-mount
Fluxgate Magnetometers (1s and 150s Cadence)
More images at http://www.flickr.com/photos/solarcarbon60/

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Re: Magnetometer Project

Post by marktownley » Thu Jan 15, 2015 7:07 am

Fascinating stuff! Yes, try turning off the morning heating for a day and see whats what...
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http://brierleyhillsolar.blogspot.co.uk/
Solar images, a collection of all the most up to date live solar data on the web, imaging & processing tutorials - please take a look!

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Re: Magnetometer Project

Post by Montana » Thu Jan 15, 2015 10:24 am

I also have an idea, this is also supposed to save you money as well theoretically. Keep your central heating on constant but at a lower temperature. Apparently allowing your house to cool costs more to bring it back up to temperature again. Keeping it on constant but at 18 degrees saves money. Now a fellow technician here at work did a two week trial as she was skeptical and it turned out she did use less gas this way. So you could keep the Bat 5 happy and keep your pocket happy too :)

Alexandra

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Re: Magnetometer Project

Post by grimble_cornet » Thu Jan 15, 2015 10:58 am

No problem guys.................. I'll get my thermal underwear out and move into an igloo in the snow ;)


Nice idea Alexandra :bow2
........but that 'solution' has been been shown many times to be on a par with the perpetual motion machine: sounds like a great idea if only it didn't break the laws of physics :?: :? :?: :oops: :?:
In any case, my geriatric central heating controls don't keep the temperature that constant and I don't want to leave my heating on when I go away for a few days just to keep the Bat 5 warm so......... I think another solution is needed :(


OK Stuart, I have emailed you my spreadsheet............. I'm now going to research thermostatically controlled heating boxes :roll:
.

.



.


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Re: Magnetometer Project

Post by Carbon60 » Fri Jan 16, 2015 6:33 am

Hi Mike,

Thanks for the data. It has given me the opportunity to make a closer comparison between our two data sets. The great news is that there is very close agreement! Using the 'Rate of Change' chart (below), which essentially removes the slow period thermal effects out of the equation, clearly we can see that there are features that match up very well between your data and mine. Don't forget, you are capturing data at 30s intervals and on this set-up I'm capturing data every 150s, so your chart looks significantly 'busier' than mine. But corresponding features are there and plain to see.
Comparison sg_mg.jpg
Comparison sg_mg.jpg (139.11 KiB) Viewed 1626 times
I'm sure this would be more plain if you set yours to log every 150s as well.

Whilst the match is not perfect, the main issue now IS getting the system more thermally stable, as we suspected. We can address other things as we progress.

BTW, the cost of the heater mat and controller was about £90 on-line from 'Blue-Lizard'.

Hope this all helps.

Regards

Stu.
Lunt LS60THa B1200 PTFT
150mm H-alpha Solar telescope with Lunt35 mod
DMK41, Basler acA1920-155
NEQ6 Pro-mount
Fluxgate Magnetometers (1s and 150s Cadence)
More images at http://www.flickr.com/photos/solarcarbon60/

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