Perseid Meteor Detection by Radio

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Re: Perseid Meteor Detection by Radio

Post by Carbon60 » Thu Sep 17, 2020 9:34 pm

Hi Rainer,

I would say this is a success. Excellent! Spectrum Lab should also provide a log of each event for you to plot out, which you can do using Excel.

Stu.


H-alpha, WL and Ca II K imaging kit for various image scales.
Fluxgate Magnetometers (1s and 150s Cadence).
Radio meteor detector.
More images at http://www.flickr.com/photos/solarcarbon60/

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Re: Perseid Meteor Detection by Radio

Post by rsfoto » Thu Sep 17, 2020 10:30 pm

Carbon60 wrote:
Thu Sep 17, 2020 9:34 pm
Hi Rainer,

I would say this is a success. Excellent! Spectrum Lab should also provide a log of each event for you to plot out, which you can do using Excel.

Stu.
Hi Stu,

Thanks.

¿ Spectrum Lab ? ¿ What is Spectrum Lab ? :lol: Just joking.

Have not yet managed to get anything into Spectrum Lab. That software is a mystery for me. Have been playing with argo and there I see something at least :mrgreen:

Will need to see if with my settings for ARGO I get something into Spectrum Lab.

With ARGO it is the same. No clear instructions anywhere ...

It is disappointing that everywhere you just read, Do this and do that and voilá you will have the charts and the meteor scatter visible ...

I have not yet found a single simple setup instruction description ...

HAM Radio seems to be a Dark Obscure Science Uuuuuhhhhh dangerous and not suitable for all :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: SARCASM but that is my feeling. Most of the Meteor scatter observers are HAM Radio operators ...

:bow :bow :bow :bow


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Re: Perseid Meteor Detection by Radio

Post by rsfoto » Thu Sep 17, 2020 10:58 pm

rsfoto wrote:
Thu Sep 17, 2020 10:30 pm
Carbon60 wrote:
Thu Sep 17, 2020 9:34 pm
Hi Rainer,

I would say this is a success. Excellent! Spectrum Lab should also provide a log of each event for you to plot out, which you can do using Excel.

Stu.
Hi Stu,

Thanks.

¿ Spectrum Lab ? ¿ What is Spectrum Lab ? :lol: Just joking.

Have not yet managed to get anything into Spectrum Lab. That software is a mystery for me. Have been playing with argo and there I see something at least :mrgreen:

Will need to see if with my settings for ARGO I get something into Spectrum Lab.

With ARGO it is the same. No clear instructions anywhere ...

It is disappointing that everywhere you just read, Do this and do that and voilá you will have the charts and the meteor scatter visible ...

I have not yet found a single simple setup instruction description ...

HAM Radio seems to be a Dark Obscure Science Uuuuuhhhhh dangerous and not suitable for all :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: SARCASM but that is my feeling. Most of the Meteor scatter observers are HAM Radio operators ...

:bow :bow :bow :bow
Hi Stu,

Miracles still happen. After writing the above answer in regard to Spectrum Lab I am getting now signals into Spectrum Lab and yes one thing which nobody mentioned anywhere it is a setting in Virtual Cable ...

I read an article about meteor scatter and there was mentioned something which draw my attention. I did set it in Virtual cable and voilá I had a signal in ARGO and now I have a signal in Spectrum Lab.

Now I just need to run tonight and tomorrow morning the setup and see if something happens in Spectrum Lab.

Look at the two screenshots from right now. The little dots are higher pitch on that phantom line I have so far always had in SDR# but that helped me now to see that I am getting signals.

WOW_SpectrumLab_first_success_01.JPG
WOW_SpectrumLab_first_success_01.JPG (106.85 KiB) Viewed 415 times
WOW_SpectrumLab_first_success_02JPG.JPG
WOW_SpectrumLab_first_success_02JPG.JPG (288.13 KiB) Viewed 415 times


regards Rainer

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Re: Perseid Meteor Detection by Radio

Post by rsfoto » Fri Sep 18, 2020 12:24 am

rsfoto wrote:
Thu Sep 17, 2020 10:58 pm
rsfoto wrote:
Thu Sep 17, 2020 10:30 pm
Carbon60 wrote:
Thu Sep 17, 2020 9:34 pm
Hi Rainer,

I would say this is a success. Excellent! Spectrum Lab should also provide a log of each event for you to plot out, which you can do using Excel.

Stu.
Hi Stu,

Thanks.

¿ Spectrum Lab ? ¿ What is Spectrum Lab ? :lol: Just joking.

Have not yet managed to get anything into Spectrum Lab. That software is a mystery for me. Have been playing with argo and there I see something at least :mrgreen:

Will need to see if with my settings for ARGO I get something into Spectrum Lab.

With ARGO it is the same. No clear instructions anywhere ...

It is disappointing that everywhere you just read, Do this and do that and voilá you will have the charts and the meteor scatter visible ...

I have not yet found a single simple setup instruction description ...

HAM Radio seems to be a Dark Obscure Science Uuuuuhhhhh dangerous and not suitable for all :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: SARCASM but that is my feeling. Most of the Meteor scatter observers are HAM Radio operators ...

:bow :bow :bow :bow
Hi Stu,

Miracles still happen. After writing the above answer in regard to Spectrum Lab I am getting now signals into Spectrum Lab and yes one thing which nobody mentioned anywhere it is a setting in Virtual Cable ...

I read an article about meteor scatter and there was mentioned something which draw my attention. I did set it in Virtual cable and voilá I had a signal in ARGO and now I have a signal in Spectrum Lab.

Now I just need to run tonight and tomorrow morning the setup and see if something happens in Spectrum Lab.

Look at the two screenshots from right now. The little dots are higher pitch on that phantom line I have so far always had in SDR# but that helped me now to see that I am getting signals.


WOW_SpectrumLab_first_success_01.JPG


WOW_SpectrumLab_first_success_02JPG.JPG
Hi Stu,

Well, not everything what shines is Gold :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:

Now I have to find the settings in order to really get defined Meteor impacts.

:o :o :o


regards Rainer

Observatorio Real de 14 San Luis Potosi Mexico

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Re: Perseid Meteor Detection by Radio

Post by Montana » Fri Sep 18, 2020 6:57 am

:hamster: :hamster: :hamster:

Well done Rainer, all the hard work has paid off! Isn't it fabulous to listen to them :movie

Alexandra



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Re: Perseid Meteor Detection by Radio

Post by marktownley » Sun Sep 20, 2020 7:11 am

Glad it's up and running Rainer, all sorted ready for the Orionids.


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Re: Perseid Meteor Detection by Radio

Post by Carbon60 » Sun Sep 20, 2020 9:26 am

Hi Rainer,

Virtual CABLE was highlighted in an earlier post, but must have been missed :). Anyhow are you able to plot out the detection rate and does the rate conform to expectations? Typically between meteor storms there are around 5-10 'sporadic' meteors per hour, so you should be getting something around this rate (more or less).

Stu.


H-alpha, WL and Ca II K imaging kit for various image scales.
Fluxgate Magnetometers (1s and 150s Cadence).
Radio meteor detector.
More images at http://www.flickr.com/photos/solarcarbon60/

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Re: Perseid Meteor Detection by Radio

Post by rsfoto » Sun Sep 20, 2020 2:51 pm

Carbon60 wrote:
Sun Sep 20, 2020 9:26 am
Hi Rainer,

Virtual CABLE was highlighted in an earlier post, but must have been missed :). Anyhow are you able to plot out the detection rate and does the rate conform to expectations? Typically between meteor storms there are around 5-10 'sporadic' meteors per hour, so you should be getting something around this rate (more or less).

Stu.
Hi Stu,

Virtual Cable was installed from the beginning on. I had to change some internal sampling rate of Virtual Cable in order to get information to Spectrum Lab. I changed it from 96000 to 48000 and then it worked.

;)


regards Rainer

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Re: Perseid Meteor Detection by Radio

Post by Carbon60 » Sun Sep 20, 2020 3:47 pm

Ahhh... I see, Rainer. Good tip for anyone else interested in doing this.

How's the hourly rate looking at the moment?

Stu.


H-alpha, WL and Ca II K imaging kit for various image scales.
Fluxgate Magnetometers (1s and 150s Cadence).
Radio meteor detector.
More images at http://www.flickr.com/photos/solarcarbon60/

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Re: Perseid Meteor Detection by Radio

Post by rsfoto » Sun Sep 20, 2020 7:57 pm

Carbon60 wrote:
Sun Sep 20, 2020 3:47 pm
Ahhh... I see, Rainer. Good tip for anyone else interested in doing this.

How's the hourly rate looking at the moment?

Stu.
Hi Stu,

Still not enough free space in the clouded Sky for White Light and H-alpha imaging. I will need to relearn all inaging and processing again :lol:

I will test on two or three beacons so far I have seen seem to be good. One TV Channel 8, 180 MHz, 87.4 kW Power station in San Diego California about 1989 km away and two stations in Texas. One in Fredericksburg, Texas with 45 kW, 76 MHz at Channel 5 920 km away and the other one in Austin, Texas with 180 kW, Channel 7, about 960 km away from my site.

The strongest scatters I get with the one in San Diego, California even having a lot of ghost frequencies in there.

The average hourly rate is about 3 :mrgreen: and taking the full hours starting at September 19 till morning September 20.

https://rainerehlert.com/000_RTLSDR/202 ... O-NHSA.mp4

Last night I recorded 11 hours of video starting at 20:00 and just finished making the cut out and got in those 11 hours 33 pings. Many visible not hearable and a few hearable.

20:00 = 0
21:00 = 2
22:00 = 1
23:00 = 5
24:00 = 2
01:00 = 2
02:00 = 2
03:00 = 3
04:00 = 6
05:00 = 3
06:00 = 6

It takes me about an hour to process my video amke the short video.

Looking at the planetarium software they could have been Orionids. I was pointing to 14.7° North.


Spectrum Lab is still not recording the pings as it should do ¿? :? :? :? On what value have you set the loudspeaker dB ?

Look below and now it is set to 40 dB
SDRSharp_Loudspeaker_settings.JPG
SDRSharp_Loudspeaker_settings.JPG (49.51 KiB) Viewed 375 times

and Spectrum Lab waterfall looks like this
SDRSharp_Loudspeaker_settings_02.JPG
SDRSharp_Loudspeaker_settings_02.JPG (104.34 KiB) Viewed 375 times

If I increase to full volume the waterfall of Spectrum Lab loks like below
SDRSharp_Loudspeaker_settings_02a.JPG
SDRSharp_Loudspeaker_settings_02a.JPG (134.3 KiB) Viewed 375 times

This are all settings which so far have not been mentioned anywhere and so the leranign curve has a very steep way for a Rookie ...


regards Rainer

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Re: Perseid Meteor Detection by Radio

Post by rsfoto » Sun Sep 20, 2020 8:09 pm

Hi Stu,

¿ have you found out how to change the directory into which Spectrum Lab saves the screenshots ?

I have found some menues and changed it there but it was always ignored and it is filling up my C:\ drive ...


:mad: :mad: :mad: :mad:


regards Rainer

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Re: Perseid Meteor Detection by Radio

Post by Carbon60 » Tue Sep 22, 2020 6:25 pm

Hi Rainer,

Spectrum Lab shouldn't be filling up your C drive. The daily logs are only small files containing basic information.

I don't recall what the default file name is, but I set mine up to log to my C drive under 'Spectrum'. Here are some screen shots to allow you to check out the file naming format under the different tabs.
File.jpg
File.jpg (101.05 KiB) Viewed 360 times
Conditional Actions.jpg
Conditional Actions.jpg (104.02 KiB) Viewed 360 times
Code.jpg
Code.jpg (193.2 KiB) Viewed 360 times
Periodic Actions.jpg
Periodic Actions.jpg (51.95 KiB) Viewed 360 times
Screen Capture.jpg
Screen Capture.jpg (62.03 KiB) Viewed 360 times
Hope this helps.

Stu.


H-alpha, WL and Ca II K imaging kit for various image scales.
Fluxgate Magnetometers (1s and 150s Cadence).
Radio meteor detector.
More images at http://www.flickr.com/photos/solarcarbon60/

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Re: Perseid Meteor Detection by Radio

Post by rsfoto » Tue Sep 22, 2020 8:31 pm

Hi Stu,

Thanks. Will look into that.

In the meantime I managed to get going a different software called ARGO which saves an image every 13 minutes. From last night to today morning I got 58 images.

I made a short video 1:27 minutes and you cans ee there how it depicts the meteor scatter.


https://rainerehlert.com/000_RTLSDR/ARG ... O-NHSA.mp4


regards Rainer

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Re: Perseid Meteor Detection by Radio

Post by rsfoto » Fri Sep 25, 2020 3:05 pm

Hi Stu,

I read in an earlier message that you are now using a 3 Element Yagi antenna. Did you connect a balun to it and if yes what sort of.

Some people have recommended me to make a 4 element Yagi antenna and I am on it but that famous Balun is driving me nuts.

How do I decide if yes or no and what sort of Balun y use ? Some people make the Balun from Coaxial cable, other take a toroidal ferrit core and make a spool or transformer ? etc.

Have searched a lot in the internet and it is still not clear.

Thanks


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Re: Perseid Meteor Detection by Radio

Post by Carbon60 » Fri Sep 25, 2020 8:55 pm

Hi Rainer,

No, I don’t use a Balun in my setup. 3 or 4 elements probably won’t make much difference, so either will be fine.

Stu.


H-alpha, WL and Ca II K imaging kit for various image scales.
Fluxgate Magnetometers (1s and 150s Cadence).
Radio meteor detector.
More images at http://www.flickr.com/photos/solarcarbon60/

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Re: Perseid Meteor Detection by Radio

Post by rsfoto » Sat Sep 26, 2020 12:56 am

Carbon60 wrote:
Fri Sep 25, 2020 8:55 pm
Hi Rainer,

No, I don’t use a Balun in my setup. 3 or 4 elements probably won’t make much difference, so either will be fine.

Stu.
Hi Stu,

Thanks. Well antenna is ready and outside. The wire is just 2.5 mm thick but I made some calculations and a thicker wire or Aluminum tube does not make a big difference in size as well as gain according to the calculator.

I have added a LNA Low Noise Amplifier after some guys recommended it.

Will let it run overnight and see what comes out. Elevation is about 12°as the transmitter is 960 km away from my site and I use 174 308 440 Hz. This has given me the most hits lately.

https://rainerehlert.com/000_RTLSDR/ARG ... O-NHSA.mp4

4-Yagi_174MHz_Antenna_Outside.jpg
4-Yagi_174MHz_Antenna_Outside.jpg (335.55 KiB) Viewed 304 times


regards Rainer

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Re: Perseid Meteor Detection by Radio

Post by Carbon60 » Sat Sep 26, 2020 2:06 pm

Looking good there, Rainer.

Time to see some data :)

Stu.


H-alpha, WL and Ca II K imaging kit for various image scales.
Fluxgate Magnetometers (1s and 150s Cadence).
Radio meteor detector.
More images at http://www.flickr.com/photos/solarcarbon60/

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Re: Perseid Meteor Detection by Radio

Post by rsfoto » Sat Sep 26, 2020 2:35 pm

Carbon60 wrote:
Sat Sep 26, 2020 2:06 pm
Looking good there, Rainer.

Time to see some data :)

Stu.
Hi Stu,

Did let it run all night. Not one meteor scatter. Something is wrong.

:cry: :cry: :cry:


regards Rainer

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Re: Perseid Meteor Detection by Radio

Post by rsfoto » Sat Sep 26, 2020 11:55 pm

rsfoto wrote:
Sat Sep 26, 2020 2:35 pm
Carbon60 wrote:
Sat Sep 26, 2020 2:06 pm
Looking good there, Rainer.

Time to see some data :)

Stu.
Hi Stu,

Did let it run all night. Not one meteor scatter. Something is wrong.

:cry: :cry: :cry:
Hi Stu,

Well I know now what was wrong.

I used some cable to ground the commercial antenna and I did not take them off yesterday and after I saw the result I analyzed the problem. While I had the DIY antenna inside my warm room it did work and after putting it on the mast it did not work. So I looked at the cables and of course as they were connected together at the bottom and had the same length they acted as a Dipole and as the Coaxial cable was running paralel to this two cables, the coax for sure got a signal or an interference signal and nothing arrived at the SDR.

I took the mast down. Took off the green cables and immediately I had a good signal again and scatters.

4-Yagi_174MHz_Antenna_Outside_NO_ground.jpg
4-Yagi_174MHz_Antenna_Outside_NO_ground.jpg (49.09 KiB) Viewed 289 times
20200926_RTL-SDR_meteor_scatter_check.jpg
20200926_RTL-SDR_meteor_scatter_check.jpg (351.69 KiB) Viewed 289 times

One more interesting thing is as I am on RF Channel 7 I took some time and curiosity made me search for Channel 7 TV stations. Pointing to the North I only found one in Mexico in the city of Chihuahua but a lot in USA.

As I am scanning the ATSC pilot tone at 174 310 kHz I guess I get all the scatter from all those towers. The image depicts a 40° degree angle and MY antenna has a 75° degree angle so I guess there are a lot more stations in my view. :shock:

CH7_40°_7_Towers_RMO-NHSA.jpg
CH7_40°_7_Towers_RMO-NHSA.jpg (1003.75 KiB) Viewed 289 times


regards Rainer

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Re: Perseid Meteor Detection by Radio

Post by rsfoto » Sun Sep 27, 2020 7:34 pm

Hi Stu,

This topic is starting to be as long as a novel but with a good end.

Just saw I started August 24 playing with the RTL-SDR and now 4 weeks later I can put a checkmark on starter success. Still way to go.

The DIY 4-Yagi antenna is working great so far my poor experience in this matter is and I can judge.

Yesterday I pointed at the center line between Denver Colorado and Little Rock in the USA and got the follwing which you can see in this two videos.

Finally Spectrum Lab seems to work and so I let run ARGO and Spectrum Lab side by side. I am starting to like more PSectrum Lab due to the fact that the scanned frequency range is bigger then in ARGO and in SPectrum Lab it is adjustable while in ARGO it is fixed to +- 20 Hz from the adjusted center line.

Now I have to find out how to integrate Colorgramme into this game and then see how it develops further and perhaps my station appears in rmob.org. This would be the second station in Mexico.

Can this info be used for some triangulation or just for fun and counting meteors ?

Meteor Scatter in ARGO
https://rainerehlert.com/000_RTLSDR/000 ... O-NHSA.mp4

Meteor Scatter in Spectrum Lab
https://rainerehlert.com/000_RTLSDR/000 ... O-NHSA.mp4

Next step is to make a sturdier Antenna and not with that flimsy 2.5 mm lacquered copper wire. If a bird sits on it then it will bend. So far they are still straight :mrgreen: :mrgreen: :mrgreen: Still thinking if I use thicker lacquered wire (3.5mm) or 6 mm (1/4") or 9 mm (3/8") Aluminum tubing.

:? :? :?

While writing this just caught some thick ones. If you compare the Spectrum Lab image with the three hits below to the ARGO graph the one in the middle of the Spectrum Lab graph does not appear in the ARGO graph :roll:


Argo
Sextantid_ARGO_thickones.JPG
Sextantid_ARGO_thickones.JPG (153.76 KiB) Viewed 277 times

Spectrum Lab
event200927191548.jpg
event200927191548.jpg (81.7 KiB) Viewed 277 times
Sextantid_SpecLab_thickones.JPG
Sextantid_SpecLab_thickones.JPG (136.72 KiB) Viewed 277 times


regards Rainer

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Re: Perseid Meteor Detection by Radio

Post by Carbon60 » Sun Sep 27, 2020 8:29 pm

Great progress, Rainer. Looking good.
The settings in Spectrum Lab will log the events. You'll see how many are being detected each hour to see if it matches expectations for sporadics.
BTW, I used simple plumbing copper tube (15mm diameter) to make my Yagi.

Stu.


H-alpha, WL and Ca II K imaging kit for various image scales.
Fluxgate Magnetometers (1s and 150s Cadence).
Radio meteor detector.
More images at http://www.flickr.com/photos/solarcarbon60/

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Re: Perseid Meteor Detection by Radio

Post by rsfoto » Sun Sep 27, 2020 8:43 pm

Carbon60 wrote:
Sun Sep 27, 2020 8:29 pm
Great progress, Rainer. Looking good.
The settings in Spectrum Lab will log the events. You'll see how many are being detected each hour to see if it matches expectations for sporadics.
BTW, I used simple plumbing copper tube (15mm diameter) to make my Yagi.

Stu.
Hi Stu,

Thanks. BTW I managed to get Colorgramme going :o I wrote to RMOB.ORG in order to know how to or if I am allowed to upload my data.

Colorgramme_DATA.JPG
Colorgramme_DATA.JPG (93.97 KiB) Viewed 270 times


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Re: Perseid Meteor Detection by Radio

Post by Carbon60 » Mon Sep 28, 2020 5:43 am

Cool. I’m not a fan of these charts as the colours are not consistent between users, or from month to month, but good to see some data from your setup.

Stu.


H-alpha, WL and Ca II K imaging kit for various image scales.
Fluxgate Magnetometers (1s and 150s Cadence).
Radio meteor detector.
More images at http://www.flickr.com/photos/solarcarbon60/

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Re: Perseid Meteor Detection by Radio

Post by rsfoto » Mon Sep 28, 2020 3:27 pm

Carbon60 wrote:
Mon Sep 28, 2020 5:43 am
Cool. I’m not a fan of these charts as the colours are not consistent between users, or from month to month, but good to see some data from your setup.

Stu.
Hi Stu,

Right. The colour changes according to the maximum ampunt of pings you get per hour, I was wondering why you do not send your data to RMOB.ORG :?


regards Rainer

Observatorio Real de 14 San Luis Potosi Mexico

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Re: Perseid Meteor Detection by Radio

Post by rsfoto » Wed Sep 30, 2020 2:37 pm

Hi,

Well finally managed to get data into the RMOB website. Look interesting how many I am getting per day.

Image

Yesterdau also a firned installed another one which is 4.5 km away from my site. At the moment he is working with my commercial antenna unitl I finish his 4 Element Yagi for 174.31 MHZ. He is 50 meters lower in height then I am and we have seen a lot of FM interference. Perhaps it get better with the dedicated antenna. Just waiting for my lacquered #8 wire.

Image

Now I need to find the next project :mrgreen:


regards Rainer

Observatorio Real de 14 San Luis Potosi Mexico

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