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Radio Detected Leonids November 2020

Posted: Fri Nov 20, 2020 7:43 am
by Carbon60
Hi all,

Here are my reflected radio detections through November so far, which include the peak of the Leonid meteor shower (November 17th). The month began with the continuation of the tail of the Orionids which peaked in October. This was followed by a brief period of minimal activity (down to a sporadic event background count of 8-10/hr) before increasing slightly to and through the Leonid peak on the 17th.

The hourly rate for the Leonids isn't especially high (unlike the Perseids in August), reaching an additional 20 or so events per hour over and above the continual background sporadic events.
Leonids_November 2020.jpg
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Though not strictly solar data, or space weather, I suppose it could be argued that the relationship with the Sun here is gravitational :)

Thanks for looking and I hope you find this interesting.

Stu.

Re: Radio Detected Leonids November 2020

Posted: Fri Nov 20, 2020 8:07 am
by Montana
Always lovely to see Stuart, I guess it is Spaceweather as these debris fields are from the Sun tearing apart comets :)

Great work :hamster: I always expected the peaks to be much larger, where are the ones where they say up to 100-150 per hour?

Alexandra

Re: Radio Detected Leonids November 2020

Posted: Fri Nov 20, 2020 4:18 pm
by rsfoto
Hi,

Well done Stu.

@Alexandra

Well I do not know if it is true :o but if you look at my statistics I have had up to 637 echoes in one hour and comparing with the non echo hours well looks like some logic is in there ... Still working on that and I will need a second station far away from my site to corroborate this values.

Lot of meteor chasers will say impossible but how comes that I have peaks up to 600 or more and on the other side I have low values as 10 echoes per hour and looking at the colorgram it is quite stable ...

If you look at the colorgram you cans ee the peaks are around 2 to 5 o'clock in the morning local time which is when according to the experts one gets the echoes due to the earth orientation against the flying direction of the earth.

Maybe Stu has an explanation for it :?

RMO_112020.jpg
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RMO_112020_RMOB_file.JPG
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Re: Radio Detected Leonids November 2020

Posted: Sat Nov 21, 2020 7:30 am
by Carbon60
Montana wrote:
Fri Nov 20, 2020 8:07 am
Always lovely to see Stuart, I guess it is Spaceweather as these debris fields are from the Sun tearing apart comets :)

Great work :hamster: I always expected the peaks to be much larger, where are the ones where they say up to 100-150 per hour?

Alexandra
Thank you, Alexandra.

I understand the Leonid count is always relatively low at around 20 per hour. The Geminids in December should be more impressive.

I understand that the high values you’ve quoted are ‘corrected’ Zenith Hourly Rate values, based on applying factors that take into account the impact of location and sky conditions on actual observation values. It’s an attempt to try to normalise the results from multiple observers.

I’m unsure how radio detections are treated in this regard. Looking at data from around the world, everyone obtains wildly different results depending on their equipment, the radio frequency and transmitter location and local ‘electromagnetic’ environment (secondary) reflections, interference, noise and so on. For example, Rainer’s data are substantially different to mine in terms of number of detections.

Maybe someone reading this can offer some insight on this. :)

Stu.

Re: Radio Detected Leonids November 2020

Posted: Sat Nov 21, 2020 8:24 am
by Carbon60
@ Rainer,

You must be getting multiple reflections, or signals from more than one transmitter, maybe? What do the individual events look like? Does a single ‘event’ produce multiple counts?

Nice data though. You’ve certainly captured the peak of the shower, despite the very high numbers.

Stu.

Stu.

Re: Radio Detected Leonids November 2020

Posted: Sat Nov 21, 2020 6:56 pm
by rsfoto
Hi Stu,
You must be getting multiple reflections, or signals from more than one transmitter, maybe? What do the individual events look like? Does a single ‘event’ produce multiple counts?
This could be well the reason. Look at the coverage of my 4 Element DIY YAGI antena for 174.31 MHz. At 3dB power it covers 58°. Look how many transmitters with 174.31 MHz frquency are in there.

NHSA_RMO_Meteor_Scatter_Coverage.jpg
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Antenna coverage at 3 dB power [little red circle] to one side and the same to the other side.

NHSA_DIY_4_Element_YAGI_174.31_MHz_Coverage.JPG
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Re: Radio Detected Leonids November 2020

Posted: Sun Nov 22, 2020 7:07 pm
by Wyvern
Hi all,
For what it's worth, here are my Leonid results over the maximum period.
Mini peak on the 16th around 0500-06.00 GMT then a general rise in pings on the 17th from 02.00-04.00 GMT and an "interesting" peak at 08.00-09.00 GMT on the 17th.
Regards,
Les

Re: Radio Detected Leonids November 2020

Posted: Mon Nov 23, 2020 5:35 pm
by Carbon60
Many thanks, Les. Good information.

Stu.

Re: Radio Detected Leonids November 2020

Posted: Mon Nov 23, 2020 5:46 pm
by Carbon60
rsfoto wrote:
Sat Nov 21, 2020 6:56 pm
Hi Stu,
You must be getting multiple reflections, or signals from more than one transmitter, maybe? What do the individual events look like? Does a single ‘event’ produce multiple counts?
This could be well the reason. Look at the coverage of my 4 Element DIY YAGI antena for 174.31 MHz. At 3dB power it covers 58°. Look how many transmitters with 174.31 MHz frquency are in there.


NHSA_RMO_Meteor_Scatter_Coverage.jpg


Antenna coverage at 3 dB power [little red circle] to one side and the same to the other side.



NHSA_DIY_4_Element_YAGI_174.31_MHz_Coverage.JPG
Hi Rainer,

This looks likely to be the issue. Your data show a clear (and correct) pattern, it’s just the numbers are too high. Maybe just normalise by dividing by a factor to account for the multiple radio sources.

Stu.

Re: Radio Detected Leonids November 2020

Posted: Mon Nov 23, 2020 6:41 pm
by rsfoto
Hi Stu,

Thanks for the suggestion. On the other side I have sometimes just 1 or 2 echoes per hour ;) Will analyze what I do with this.

Eventually I will built a Moxon for 76.31 MHz (size is acceptable = 141 cm x 52 cm rectangle) as there is only one strong transmitter in USA and see what happens with that.

Re: Radio Detected Leonids November 2020

Posted: Mon Nov 23, 2020 7:26 pm
by Carbon60
Sounds like a cool plan, Rainer. :)

Re: Radio Detected Leonids November 2020

Posted: Wed Nov 25, 2020 6:04 pm
by rsfoto
Carbon60 wrote:
Sat Nov 21, 2020 8:24 am
@ Rainer,

You must be getting multiple reflections, or signals from more than one transmitter, maybe? What do the individual events look like? Does a single ‘event’ produce multiple counts?

Nice data though. You’ve certainly captured the peak of the shower, despite the very high numbers.

Stu.

Hi Stu,

I was recapitulating what you wrote about multiple refelections.

If that is so, then I should get at the same time bright spots on my waterfall at different echo frequencies but not time differences ...

¿ or ?

Look at the screenshot of the colorgram a few days after the Leonid shower. It is much more quiet.

Next big Meteor shower the Geminids in December will bring more Sound into this Silence :cool:

Meteor_Scatter_202011_RMOB_Ehlert.JPG
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Re: Radio Detected Leonids November 2020

Posted: Thu Nov 26, 2020 6:41 am
by Carbon60
Hi Rainer,

I don’t think there’s any doubt you’re detecting meteors as the pattern matches the pattern of the storm, it’s just that the numbers are very high. When you look at the raw data do you see ‘bursts’ of counts for each event, or something that looks more random? Maybe you could plot out in cumulative counts vs time for a busy night during the peak of the storm to look for clues?

Stu.

Re: Radio Detected Leonids November 2020

Posted: Thu Nov 26, 2020 4:03 pm
by rsfoto
Carbon60 wrote:
Thu Nov 26, 2020 6:41 am
Hi Rainer,

I don’t think there’s any doubt you’re detecting meteors as the pattern matches the pattern of the storm, it’s just that the numbers are very high. When you look at the raw data do you see ‘bursts’ of counts for each event, or something that looks more random? Maybe you could plot out in cumulative counts vs time for a busy night during the peak of the storm to look for clues?

Stu.
Hi Stu,
When you look at the raw data do you see ‘bursts’ of counts for each event, or something that looks more random?
I do not understand what you wrote in above sentence ... :oops: