Appenzellersun, Polar Coelostat arrived , now in maintenance

Frankenscope? Let's see it!***be advised that NOTHING in this forum has been safety tested and you are reading and using these posts at your own peril. blah, blah, blah... dont mess around with your eyesight when it comes to solar astronomy. Use appropriate filtration at all times...
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Re: Appenzellersun, Polar Coelostat arrived , now in maintenance

Post by sullij1 »

Very cool stuff boys! I will be lurking watching the action.


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Re: Appenzellersun, Polar Coelostat arrived , now in maintenance

Post by Merlin66 »

Walter,
What Dave is saying is position the torch immediately behind a hole in a large(ish) piece of card and locate that at 8300mm (near enough to start with.....)in front of the mirror.
When the lamp is pointed at the mirror the reflection should be seen on the card close by the lamp aperture.....slowly move the lamp/card until you get the best focus (of the lamp) on the card.
That will measure the radius of curvature, the focal length is half this....
Make any sense??


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Re: Appenzellersun, Polar Coelostat arrived , now in maintenance

Post by swisswalter »

Hi Dave, Hi Ken

thank you very much for your comment and help. We do not disagree. The test I used gives indeed the same result as your procedure described ( see also www.stathis-firstlight.de ). That procedure I used is a very common first test of a mirror while grinding it. I had the primary filter filled with light but was not able to take a pic of that situation because it reacts immediately of any little missalignment. Using the laser to measure the distance was just an additional check, and it works.

Next to that I meausred the curvature of the mirror, it is below 0,4 mm and above 0,3 mm, which gives the same result ~4,2 m focal length t= (D/2)2/2xR)


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Re: Appenzellersun, Polar Coelostat arrived , now in mainten

Post by swisswalter »

Hi mod gang

we are back again. I have received the broken part and I'm going to assemble the ceolostat the next weeks. Stay tuned.


Only stardust in the wind, some fine and some less fine scopes, filters and adapters as well. Switzerland 47 N, 9 E, in the heart of EUROPE :)

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Re: Appenzellersun, Polar Coelostat arrived , now in mainten

Post by marktownley »

Hi Walter! :)

Keep us all updated.


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Re: Appenzellersun, Polar Coelostat arrived , now in mainten

Post by swisswalter »

Hi Mark

I'm so happy that you have managed to get into the forum again too. I would have been feeling lost without you buddy. Did you notice that you have lost posting points as well as me. I'm a very new member to that forum, just joined it ;-) but I have already some hundreds post's ;-)

Hope you all over there stay dry (not meaning wine, beer etc. ;-) ) and safe


Only stardust in the wind, some fine and some less fine scopes, filters and adapters as well. Switzerland 47 N, 9 E, in the heart of EUROPE :)

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Re: Appenzellersun, Polar Coelostat arrived , now in mainten

Post by alex »

Very impressive Walter!

Please keep us posted :)


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Re: Appenzellersun, Polar Coelostat arrived , now in mainten

Post by swisswalter »

Hi Alex

thank you very much. I will :-)


Only stardust in the wind, some fine and some less fine scopes, filters and adapters as well. Switzerland 47 N, 9 E, in the heart of EUROPE :)

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Re: Appenzellersun, Polar Coelostat arrived , now in mainten

Post by swisswalter »

Finally after 14 days without sunshine I took the chance to measure the FL in bright sunshine :)


The FL is 4180 mm. The diameter of the disk hitting the camera is ~45 mm
Attachments
focusedonthe sun.jpg
focusedonthe sun.jpg (962.79 KiB) Viewed 4260 times
thefocusedsun.jpg
thefocusedsun.jpg (665.14 KiB) Viewed 4261 times
Last edited by swisswalter on Sun Feb 16, 2014 1:43 pm, edited 1 time in total.


Only stardust in the wind, some fine and some less fine scopes, filters and adapters as well. Switzerland 47 N, 9 E, in the heart of EUROPE :)

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from 7.01 pm - 6.59 am http://www.wastronomiko.com some times vice versa ;)
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Re: Appenzellersun, Polar Coelostat arrived , now in mainten

Post by swisswalter »

temporary setup on the garden table

temporaryonthegardentable.jpg
temporaryonthegardentable.jpg (698.91 KiB) Viewed 4259 times


the swiss clock drive

swissclockdrive.jpg
swissclockdrive.jpg (976.38 KiB) Viewed 4257 times
Here you see also what has to be done regarding cleaning



The 12 o'clock position of the primary mirror
12oclockposition.jpg
12oclockposition.jpg (841.3 KiB) Viewed 4255 times


a riddle to be still solved (swiss hieroglyphs) Maybe somebody has a hint

theriddle.jpg
theriddle.jpg (901.76 KiB) Viewed 4254 times

the secondary temporarely positioned in the garden

temporaryposionsecondary.jpg
temporaryposionsecondary.jpg (795.63 KiB) Viewed 4254 times

finding a place higher up the facade

findingaplace.jpg
findingaplace.jpg (1016.53 KiB) Viewed 4254 times


Only stardust in the wind, some fine and some less fine scopes, filters and adapters as well. Switzerland 47 N, 9 E, in the heart of EUROPE :)

from 7 am - 7 pm http://www.nanosys.ch

from 7.01 pm - 6.59 am http://www.wastronomiko.com some times vice versa ;)
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Re: Appenzellersun, Polar Coelostat arrived , now in mainten

Post by swisswalter »

and now back inside


the workroom setup for cleaning

workroomsetup.jpg
workroomsetup.jpg (783.21 KiB) Viewed 4254 times

the first cleaned pieces, there are many many more to be cleaned

firstcleanedparts.jpg
firstcleanedparts.jpg (824.29 KiB) Viewed 4254 times


Only stardust in the wind, some fine and some less fine scopes, filters and adapters as well. Switzerland 47 N, 9 E, in the heart of EUROPE :)

from 7 am - 7 pm http://www.nanosys.ch

from 7.01 pm - 6.59 am http://www.wastronomiko.com some times vice versa ;)
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Re: Appenzellersun, Polar Coelostat arrived , now in mainten

Post by DavidG »

Hi Walter,
I think what the symbols mean is that if the Sun is drifting downward then you want to move the slow motion control in the direction the arrow is pointing to recenter the image.


- Dave


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Re: Appenzellersun, Polar Coelostat arrived , now in mainten

Post by Peter Williams »

This apparatus makes me think of:
"Alles Touristen Und Non-technishen Lookens Peepers!
Das Machine control is Nicht Fur Gerfingenpoken Und Mittengrabben.
Oderwise is Easy Schnappen Der Springenwerk, Blowenfuse, Und Poppencorken Mit Spitzensparken.
Der Machine is Diggen by Experten Only. Is Nicht Fur Gerverken by Das Dummkopfen.
Das Rubberneken Sightseenen Keepen Das Cottonpicken Hands in Das Pockets, So Relaxen Und Watchen Das Blinkenlights."

Interesting story of it's resurrection.


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Re: Appenzellersun, Polar Coelostat arrived , now in mainten

Post by swisswalter »

Peter Williams wrote:This apparatus makes me think of:
"Alles Touristen Und Non-technishen Lookens Peepers!
Das Machine control is Nicht Fur Gerfingenpoken Und Mittengrabben.
Oderwise is Easy Schnappen Der Springenwerk, Blowenfuse, Und Poppencorken Mit Spitzensparken.
Der Machine is Diggen by Experten Only. Is Nicht Fur Gerverken by Das Dummkopfen.
Das Rubberneken Sightseenen Keepen Das Cottonpicken Hands in Das Pockets, So Relaxen Und Watchen Das Blinkenlights."

Interesting story of it's resurrection.

Hi Peter


:bow2 :lol: :lol: :lol:


Only stardust in the wind, some fine and some less fine scopes, filters and adapters as well. Switzerland 47 N, 9 E, in the heart of EUROPE :)

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from 7.01 pm - 6.59 am http://www.wastronomiko.com some times vice versa ;)
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Re: Appenzellersun, Polar Coelostat arrived , now in mainten

Post by swisswalter »

DavidG wrote:Hi Walter,
I think what the symbols mean is that if the Sun is drifting downward then you want to move the slow motion control in the direction the arrow is pointing to recenter the image.


- Dave

Hi Dave


:bow2 very much. That is a good hint. We will see once installed


Only stardust in the wind, some fine and some less fine scopes, filters and adapters as well. Switzerland 47 N, 9 E, in the heart of EUROPE :)

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from 7.01 pm - 6.59 am http://www.wastronomiko.com some times vice versa ;)
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Re: Appenzellersun, Polar Coelostat arrived , now in mainten

Post by DavidG »

Hi Walter,
I'm interested in the clock drive. The two brass gears attached to the clock look to give a ratio of 1:1 so that means the clock motor itself needs to turning at 1 revolution in 48 hours to track the Sun. Have you measured it's speed ?


- Dave


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Re: Appenzellersun, Polar Coelostat arrived , now in mainten

Post by Spectral Joe »

Dave

It will be 1 revolution in 24 hours, because this is a heliostat, not a coelostat. A coelostat has the tracking mirror fixed in declination with it's surface coincident to the polar axis. To get the beam on the second flat the first flat's mount must be translated north-south as the Sun's declination changes. East-west translation is needed if the second flat shadows the first. A coelostat mirror rotates once in 48 hours and a polar heliostat once in 24 hours. There are a variety of other heliostat configurations, even altazimuth. A heliostat with anything other than the polar configuration will require two axis slow motions at rates depending on the geometry. If Walter's wonderful gadget is polar aligned it will track the Sun if it's turning once per day. Coelostats are more trouble to set up, but there is no image rotation as with a heliostat, which makes a difference in some cases.
GEDC1070 (Medium).JPG
GEDC1070 (Medium).JPG (355.39 KiB) Viewed 4207 times
This is a photo of a coelostat, the tracks for translating the first mirror's mount are seen, the second flat has motor drives for tracking. Takes about a minute to acquire the Sun on average.

Joe


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Re: Appenzellersun, Polar Coelostat arrived , now in mainten

Post by DavidG »

Hi Joe,
Thanks for jogging my memory about the Helio vs Ceolostat. I should have remembered the difference since I 'm restoring an original Hale spectrohelioscope that uses a Ceolostat.

- Dave
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Re: Appenzellersun, Polar Coelostat arrived , now in mainten

Post by swisswalter »

Hi Dave, Hi Joe

thank you very much for all your valuable Information.

@Dave yes it seems to be a 1:1 Ratio. I have not yet measured the Speed. I need to get it going, set up and have sunshine for some hours. Wow what a wonderful old piece you are restoring. Good luck.

@Joe thanks for sorting out heliostat versus coelostat. So then my gear is a polar Heliostat, right ? I'll bring it back, it was sold to me as a ceolostat ;)

It is indeed aligned North/south, focuser beeing up north


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Re: Appenzellersun, Polar Coelostat arrived , now in mainten

Post by Carbon60 »

All fascinating stuff, guys. Very interesting.

Good luck with the restorations.

Stu.


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Re: Appenzellersun, Polar Coelostat arrived , now in mainten

Post by swisswalter »

Hi Stuart

thank you very much for the good wishes


Only stardust in the wind, some fine and some less fine scopes, filters and adapters as well. Switzerland 47 N, 9 E, in the heart of EUROPE :)

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from 7.01 pm - 6.59 am http://www.wastronomiko.com some times vice versa ;)
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Re: Appenzellersun, Polar Coelostat arrived , now in mainten

Post by marktownley »

Lovely to read how this has been developing Walter! Glad to see you making progress.


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Re: Appenzellersun, Polar Coelostat arrived , now in mainten

Post by swisswalter »

Hi Mark


welcome back. Hope you had a great time and the pocket full of pics. We missed you :)


Only stardust in the wind, some fine and some less fine scopes, filters and adapters as well. Switzerland 47 N, 9 E, in the heart of EUROPE :)

from 7 am - 7 pm http://www.nanosys.ch

from 7.01 pm - 6.59 am http://www.wastronomiko.com some times vice versa ;)
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