Front ERF vs Internal ERF? Minimum size?

Frankenscope? Let's see it!***be advised that NOTHING in this forum has been safety tested and you are reading and using these posts at your own peril. blah, blah, blah... dont mess around with your eyesight when it comes to solar astronomy. Use appropriate filtration at all times...
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Re: Front ERF vs Internal ERF? Minimum size?

Post by marktownley » Tue Jun 05, 2018 9:49 pm

Maybe the smoke / vapour we are seeing is just pollen in the air showing tube currents?
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Re: Front ERF vs Internal ERF? Minimum size?

Post by TheSkyBurner » Thu Jun 07, 2018 4:05 am

today i moved the b-ccd filter 40mm closer to the focus, the reflection is now elliptical shaped and being dumped across two of my extension tubes (threaded and baffled). There is no smoke coming off of this now and the heat is effectively dissipated across the entire array of extensions. It is now functional as a cylindrical heat sink.

The reflection is now completely away from optical line of sight and is not causing any additional interference or reflections on the objective. The polarizer is detached, but I may still install a smaller one to experiment with filter clocking.

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Re: Front ERF vs Internal ERF? Minimum size?

Post by Rusted » Sat Jul 07, 2018 6:49 am

This is a bit late but I have a warning about sub-aperture, internal D-ERFs:

There is a fiercely hot, refocused and unfiltered, reflected Solar image well in front of my 6" f/8 [120/10] objective.
I'm using a 90mm internal Baader D-ERF with PST H-a filtration in an old CR150HD donor.

Fortunately, my head has usually blocked the sun's light when I happened to glance into the objective while pointing at the Sun.
But an unwary hand waved in front of the objective would probably be burnt since it can't eclipse enough incoming sunlight.

A long dewshield might be a very good idea where the public has even "accidental" access to such an instrument.
An amateur solar observer, with children wandering about, should be very aware of this very real danger.
A small child's head would still allow annular sunlight to fall on a larger objective with potentially tragic consequences.
Most of a lens's collecting area is in the outer zones.

A full aperture D-ERF filter, fixed securely in front of the objective, would minimize the risk down to "normal strength" reflected sunlight.
The reflected glare would usually be enough to cause a person, or child, to desist from their "Darwin Awards" curiosity.

However, a reflected and re-focused image, from an internal D-ERF, might not give the "accidental" viewer any chance at all to withdraw before damaging their sight permanently.
And yes, you can easily set light to a strip of wood held a few inches in front of the objective on my 6" modified refractor!
Fortunately my telescope is very inaccessible and large enough to need a stepladder to reach the objective.

Logic suggests that the larger the internal D-ERF the further forward of the objective the Sun's re-focused image will be thrown.
I wouldn't be leaving stepladders anywhere near such an instrument when leaving it unattended.! :movie

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Re: Front ERF vs Internal ERF? Minimum size?

Post by MalVeauX » Sun Sep 09, 2018 8:05 pm

Rusted wrote:
Sat Jul 07, 2018 6:49 am
This is a bit late but I have a warning about sub-aperture, internal D-ERFs:

There is a fiercely hot, refocused and unfiltered, reflected Solar image well in front of my 6" f/8 [120/10] objective.
I'm using a 90mm internal Baader D-ERF with PST H-a filtration in an old CR150HD donor.

Fortunately, my head has usually blocked the sun's light when I happened to glance into the objective while pointing at the Sun.
But an unwary hand waved in front of the objective would probably be burnt since it can't eclipse enough incoming sunlight.

A long dewshield might be a very good idea where the public has even "accidental" access to such an instrument.
An amateur solar observer, with children wandering about, should be very aware of this very real danger.
A small child's head would still allow annular sunlight to fall on a larger objective with potentially tragic consequences.
Most of a lens's collecting area is in the outer zones.

A full aperture D-ERF filter, fixed securely in front of the objective, would minimize the risk down to "normal strength" reflected sunlight.
The reflected glare would usually be enough to cause a person, or child, to desist from their "Darwin Awards" curiosity.

However, a reflected and re-focused image, from an internal D-ERF, might not give the "accidental" viewer any chance at all to withdraw before damaging their sight permanently.
And yes, you can easily set light to a strip of wood held a few inches in front of the objective on my 6" modified refractor!
Fortunately my telescope is very inaccessible and large enough to need a stepladder to reach the objective.

Logic suggests that the larger the internal D-ERF the further forward of the objective the Sun's re-focused image will be thrown.
I wouldn't be leaving stepladders anywhere near such an instrument when leaving it unattended.! :movie
Very good information to know! I have I think the same exact scope, an old CR150HD refractor, 6" F8. I've been using it mostly lately. While it works fine with the 2" UV/IR cut filter and my Quark, I'm definitely thinking of putting an ERF inside it. A full aperture ERF is simply too costly right now, and I'd rather put that money towards a larger ERF ultimately (saving towards a big SCT size ERF eventually). But an internal 75mm or 90mm is $350 and $500 and that's much more affordable to tide me over a few more years while continuing to image.

My imaging scopes are never around other people, just me, in my observatory, pointing at the sky. So I'm not worried about others. But, the safety tips are very appreciated!

May I ask how you installed your Baader 90mm ERF internal in that scope? Would love to see how you managed it. Images would be lovely!

I was thinking about getting a 90mm ERF ($500 new) and installing it on a frame that bolts onto an internal baffle surface in the scope as the holding cell basically. The big question is... how and where to cut the OTA to get access, or, can I simply put it in via taking the front element cell off and reaching down into the OTA and some how getting it in there.

My other concern is being able to get it back out. I like to image in CaK with this same instrument, but I think the Baader ERF would kill that, so I'd have to be able to remove the the internal ERF some how. I'm trying to find a way to make this modular....

Any ideas on modular internal ERF?

Very best,

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