Modified SM40 - A Story of Evolution...

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Modified SM40 - A Story of Evolution...

Post by marktownley »

Quite a few folk here have been putting up pics of their setups, so I thought I would document the evolution of my Coronado SM40, from the stock scope it started of as, to the modified mighty mouse it is now...

First off it started off life as a 'stock' SM40, then a couple of years ago I added a second etalon to produce the setup below...


DSCF0643 by Mark Townley, on Flickr

Unfortunately the objective on the Coronado showed astigmatism, some of you may remember my pictures of a couple of years ago had a 'hatched' pattern of lines on them. Finally after reaching the conclusion the objective lens was a duffer I finally settled on mounting the etalons on a donor OTA. I used a 70mm f6 refractor for this; it had a nice 10:1 crayford (which the coronado does not!) and reading around was a well reviewed scope for the price (£239). Anyways, the result looks like this...


DSCF2572 by Mark Townley, on Flickr

Superficially not much appears different than the stock, but there are a few fundamental changes that set it apart... First off both etalons have had their ERFs removed and replaced with an alternative; A while ago I removed the inner ERF from the double stack (the one closest to the objective) which resulted in a brighter image with slightly better contrast. Then, for Christmas I had a 2" Baader 7nm Ha, my plan was to remove the remaining original Coronado ERF and use the Baader. Here are some pics which show this...


DSCF2582 by Mark Townley, on Flickr


DSCF2587 by Mark Townley, on Flickr

Interestingly neither of the foil spacers in mounted centrally in the etalon, which can easily be seen by rotating the etalon.


DSCF2581 by Mark Townley, on Flickr


DSCF2580 by Mark Townley, on Flickr

The 2" Baader is fixed to the screw thread on the brass etalon housing by means of aluminuim step up/down rings courtesy of fleabay...

The Baader is tilted to throw the reflection out of the field of view slightly by means of 2 thin aluminuim slithers fixed diametrically opposite each other either side of the filter glass. This is done by just slackening off the retaining ring and popping the slither in either side then nipping the ring back hand tight.


DSCF2576 by Mark Townley, on Flickr

Other mods on the OTA include the sol ranger from the cornoado being mounted to the tube by means of a laser pointer holder...


DSCF2589 by Mark Townley, on Flickr


DSCF2590 by Mark Townley, on Flickr

Anyway, why replace the ERF on these etalons anyway?


DSCF2591 by Mark Townley, on Flickr

Well apart from the fact it's a relatively thick peice of glass, i've always wondered what it lets through...


DSCF2592 by Mark Townley, on Flickr

Quite alot it seems (compared to the Baader). Here's a transmission curve for the Coronado ERF...


Cor-SM60-log by Mark Townley, on Flickr

As you would expect the Baader 7nm has a completely different curve...


h_alpha_ccd_7nm_kurve by Mark Townley, on Flickr

Visually with the Baader as an ERF the sky background is black, whereas with the original coronado the sky always had the deep red glow to it. Not sure of the reasons why, I wonder if it something to do with scattered throughput from the ERF hitting the blocker at an angle (rather than parallel) and hence passing through and being visible in the eyepeice... Tansmission is higher in the Baader which results in a brighter image in the eyepeice, allowing me to use a shorter focal length eyepeice; this also resuls in shorter exposure times with the CCD aswell.

Just for curiosity sake here is the transmission curve from the ERF in one of Ken Huggets Solarscopes...


Sol-ERF-lin by Mark Townley, on Flickr

Considerably less throughput in the Infra Red...

Anyways, my theory is with less IR hitting my blocker it will prolong it's life, it already is showing signs of rust round the periphery and I don't want anymore if I can help it!

I think this is about as far as I can take this setup mod wise now, as always I have aperture fever so the mods for 2012 will be with my 5" frac hopefully venturing successfully into the world of Ha.

Hope this is of interest to you!

Best for 2012,

Mark :)


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Re: Modified SM40 - A Story of Evolution...

Post by earl »

Mark
Love the setup. You have spent a lot of time on this scope and images you post show just how well the scope performs Great job. Thanks for sharing.


Bill E.

Re: Modified SM40 - A Story of Evolution...

Post by Bill E. »

Thanks Mark :)


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Re: Modified SM40 - A Story of Evolution...

Post by swisswalter »

Hi Mark

fantastic mod and report. Thank you very much. That gave input for months


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Re: Modified SM40 - A Story of Evolution...

Post by DSobserver »

what an interesting mod!

For the moment I'm using a DS pst, and I'm really looking to take the maximum from this great instrument

Do you recommand me
1- remove the small ERF from PST
2- remove SM 40 ERF and make your mod for visual observation?

thanks ;)


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Re: Modified SM40 - A Story of Evolution...

Post by marktownley »

I would recommend anyone who is using a external SM40 on their PST to remove the ERF from the external etalon, will let through alot more light. I don't know enough about the workings of the PST to comment on removing it's ERF, but in theory, if you did you could use a 7nm baader as the ERF on the external etalon... :)


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Re: Modified SM40 - A Story of Evolution...

Post by DSobserver »

I'm really tempt to do it.... :blush:

How do you remove ERF from SM40?

Is it later making the filter more fragil?

Why did you take the baader filter?

do you think that this 10nm cheaper one would match it?

Where did you found the aluminuim step up/down rings?

Thanks for your help!


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Re: Modified SM40 - A Story of Evolution...

Post by marktownley »

I'm really tempt to do it.... :blush:

How do you remove ERF from SM40?

Is it later making the filter more fragil?

Why did you take the baader filter?

do you think that this 10nm cheaper one would match it?

Where did you found the aluminuim step up/down rings?

Thanks for your help!

OK, to remove the ERF see the very last post in this thread http://solarchat.natca.net/index.php/en ... -ed80#5903

I don't think it makes it any more fragile at all...

I went with the Baader filter because of it's specific blocking capabilities compared to the coronado ERF at IR wavelengths, its transmission value at 656.28nm and because Baader is a brand I trust. The filter you link to would work, but note subtle differences with the Baader: the ebay filter only has a transmission of ~80% compared to the Baader ~95%, also the EBay one only blocks to 1000nm, Baader is >1500nm - I think I would be concerned especially for visual that the EBay is letting through too much IR... The step down rings were all off EBay, only a couple of £££ each...

:)


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Re: Modified SM40 - A Story of Evolution...

Post by Richard »

Looks good Mark, how did you join the 2 SM40 together? as the threads seem all wrong. And coronado seem to want a fortune for an adapter. I know one is a normal camera filter thread size (can't remeber what though)...
:?


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Re: Modified SM40 - A Story of Evolution...

Post by marktownley »

Looks good Mark, how did you join the 2 SM40 together? as the threads seem all wrong. And coronado seem to want a fortune for an adapter. I know one is a normal camera filter thread size (can't remeber what though)...
:?

Hi Richard.
TelescopeHouse.com wanted £75 for the adapter to join the 2 etalons - all it is a 52-55mm step up/down ring... I paid £1.29 for an aluminuim one off EBay. Naughty profiteering businesses!!! :blink:
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Re: Modified SM40 - A Story of Evolution...

Post by Richard »

Thanks Mark, they may have caught on as there now £3.90 on Ebay.... :woohoo:


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Re: Modified SM40 - A Story of Evolution...

Post by swisswalter »

Hi Richard

can you lead me to the ebay site where they are offered. I need an adaption SM90 / LUNT 100 ;)


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Re: Modified SM40 - A Story of Evolution...

Post by Richard »

Hi, here is the one I got
[ebay]290627439086[/ebay]

If you look in his shop, view other items, he has quite a few, so just need to know what the threads are....


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Re: Modified SM40 - A Story of Evolution...

Post by swisswalter »

Hi Richard

thank you very much. That helps a lot


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Re: Modified SM40 - A Story of Evolution...

Post by astroshot »

Has anyone tried replacing the ERF on their Coronado filter larger than 40mm?
I have a Coronado 90 filter and this project has got me thinking....


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Re: Modified SM40 - A Story of Evolution...

Post by swisswalter »

Hi Michael

I can't speak about the SM90 yet, but I did remove the ERF of the LUNT 50LS and it worked like charm


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Re: Modified SM40 - A Story of Evolution...

Post by marktownley »

Has anyone tried replacing the ERF on their Coronado filter larger than 40mm?
I have a Coronado 90 filter and this project has got me thinking....

Yes, Bob Yoesle and a couple of others on cloudy nights removed both ERFs from their double stacked SM90 and replaced with a single Baader ERF; they reported huge gains in terms of image brightness and contrast. The procedure is the same regardless of whether it is a 40, 60 or 90... It's really easy to do and only takes a matter of minutes...


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Re: Modified SM40 - A Story of Evolution...

Post by Merlin66 »

Removing BOTH ERF filters for the etalons in a double stack will certaintly improve the light and energy throughput; but, before all the energy reaches the eyepiece/ camera most of it still has to be removed...
If the "secondary" ERF is internal then the absorbed/ reflected energy (depending on the type of ERF)has to go somewhere......
The final blocking filters (<6A bandwidth) seem to be vulnerable to energy loading (hence the "mini-ERF" in the PST)
There needs to be an effective ERF somewhere in the optical path...why not external to the OTA?


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Re: Modified SM40 - A Story of Evolution...

Post by astroshot »

Thanks Mark.
I've just popped off an e-mail to Patrick in Telescope Service.


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Re: Modified SM40 - A Story of Evolution...

Post by swisswalter »

Hi Michael

I can only recommend TS. Very nice guys. The Baader D-ERF's are fine pieces but they have their price


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Re: Modified SM40 - A Story of Evolution...

Post by marktownley »

There needs to be an effective ERF somewhere in the optical path...why not external to the OTA?

Indeed it does and thats what people have done; for the SM40s you can use a 7nm ha filter as I have done, but for the 60s & 90s you need to use a Baader D-ERF, for example.


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Re: Modified SM40 - A Story of Evolution...

Post by Merlin66 »

Mark,
Do you think the performance improvement from the original ERF to the Baader D-ERF makes such a difference?


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Re: Modified SM40 - A Story of Evolution...

Post by marktownley »

Mark,
Do you think the performance improvement from the original ERF to the Baader D-ERF makes such a difference?

Yes; primarily through the fact the transmission @ Ha wavelengths is quite a bit higher than a pair of coronado ERFs. Definitely a contrast improvement too...


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Re: Modified SM40 - A Story of Evolution...

Post by Merlin66 »

OK, let me re-phrase...
If you elect to remove the inside etalon ERF....would replacing the exterior etalon ERF with a Baader D-ERF make a significant improvement....
( The reason I ask is the added significant cost of the Baader....)


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Re: Modified SM40 - A Story of Evolution...

Post by marktownley »

OK, let me re-phrase...
If you elect to remove the inside etalon ERF....would replacing the exterior etalon ERF with a Baader D-ERF make a significant improvement....
( The reason I ask is the added significant cost of the Baader....)

I do think the biggest and free improvement would be to remove the inner etalon ERF, however doing this and then removing and replacing the outer with a Baader ERF, and bearing in mind the cost of the Baader D-ERF at larger apertures, then, the law of diminishing returns would come into play... So, is the cost of suitable baader ERF worth it - kinda subjective really, depends... I think it was worth it for my scope, but for a scope with a 60 0r 90mm etalon, don't know... Definitely worth trying I would suggest if you have a Baader D-ERF that you can use already...


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Re: Modified SM40 - A Story of Evolution...

Post by hunterknox »

How you're not a consultant to Coronado I'll never know. Impressive stuff - thanks for sharing.


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Re: Modified SM40 - A Story of Evolution...

Post by marktownley »

OK, let me re-phrase...
If you elect to remove the inside etalon ERF....would replacing the exterior etalon ERF with a Baader D-ERF make a significant improvement....
( The reason I ask is the added significant cost of the Baader....)

With 60mm etalons you consider this as a 'tester' to see if worth getting a baader d-erf...

[ebay]310260943731[/ebay]


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Re: Modified SM40 - A Story of Evolution...

Post by DSobserver »

Mark

it looks that the T-max adjuster is really difficult to unscrew from SM40. Is that normal? Should I try harder?


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Re: Modified SM40 - A Story of Evolution...

Post by astroshot »

Does anyone know what the thread at the front of the SM90 is please?


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Re: Modified SM40 - A Story of Evolution...

Post by marktownley »

Mark

it looks that the T-max adjuster is really difficult to unscrew from SM40. Is that normal? Should I try harder?

Yes, will just unscrew...


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Re: Modified SM40 - A Story of Evolution...

Post by marktownley »

I'm fairly certain it is 102mm diameter 1mm pitch. SM60 is 77mm diameter 1mm pitch.


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Re: Modified SM40 - A Story of Evolution...

Post by astroshot »

Thanks Mark.


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Re: Modified SM40 - A Story of Evolution...

Post by Richard »

:woohoo: The adapter ring arrived today, it spot on....and the other SM40 arrives tomorrow. (sorry in advance for the lack of sun due to new gear)....

They do unscrew but some are thread sealed...


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Re: Modified SM40 - A Story of Evolution...

Post by marktownley »

:woohoo: The adapter ring arrived today, it spot on....

Excellent news! Beats paying the price they want for 'Coronado' rings ;)


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Re: Modified SM40 - A Story of Evolution...

Post by Richard »

For coronado prices they should be solid gold.....But looking at the photo it looks the same as the timy ring of black metal I got today.... :lol:


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marktownley
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Re: Modified SM40 - A Story of Evolution...

Post by marktownley »

But looking at the photo it looks the same as the timy ring of black metal I got today.... :lol:

Oh they will all the same, anodised aluminuium... :)


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Re: Modified SM40 - A Story of Evolution...

Post by DSobserver »

hi
I need HELPPPPPP !!!!:bow:

I'm trying to remove front ERF from my SM40.

I finally reach to unscrew Tmax and brass ring from fabry perrot but I'm again block at last step :angry:

As you can see in the picture my ERF is "tilt" in front of the SM and block in the FP side with a piece of plastic glue on the ring



Due to this when I unscrew the ring fixing the ERF the plastic piece is squeezed and block everything (ERF+ring).

Any advice? :(


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Re: Modified SM40 - A Story of Evolution...

Post by marktownley »

Any advice? :(

Just pick off the glue and use a lens spanner to release the retaining ring on the ERF...


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Re: Modified SM40 - A Story of Evolution...

Post by DSobserver »

it's not glue, it's hard rubber stick to the ring. I already try to remove it with a blade...no way.


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Re: Modified SM40 - A Story of Evolution...

Post by marktownley »

Weird! Can you take some more pics from different angles so can see the bigger picture...


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Re: Modified SM40 - A Story of Evolution...

Post by DSobserver »

great idea :bow: I'll try thanks


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Re: Modified SM40 - A Story of Evolution...

Post by DSobserver »

DONE!!!!!! :woohoo:

Finally I used a burning blade to remove this #@?/% glue :evil:

I'll so you some picture later one. Now I'm waiting my KG5 filter :whistle:


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Re: Modified SM40 - A Story of Evolution...

Post by marktownley »

Great job! You'll find the views considerably brighter now = more magnification... Look forward to hearing more :)


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Re: Modified SM40 - A Story of Evolution...

Post by rsfoto »

Hi,

After having read this topic I think I will do it too for the lower SM 60 etalon I have.



I assume the etalon is not tilted in its cell. Does it have any influence in the image if the position of the etalon in regard to rotation is not the same as before ?


regards Rainer

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Re: Modified SM40 - A Story of Evolution...

Post by marktownley »

You will enjoy the results Rainer. All is well after modification, no tilt issues to worry about...


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Re: Modified SM40 - A Story of Evolution...

Post by rsfoto »

:thanx:


regards Rainer

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Michel

Re: Modified SM40 - A Story of Evolution...

Post by Michel »

Impressionant superbe matos. :woohoo:
Michel


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Re: Modified SM40 - A Story of Evolution...

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are you the "michel" I meet during the RAS? (lulu105)


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Re: Modified SM40 - A Story of Evolution...

Post by rsfoto »

You will enjoy the results Rainer. All is well after modification, no tilt issues to worry about...

Hi Mark,

I just removed one of the ERF in my DS 60 and you were right. The gain in light is even more then 10%.

My first impressions are that depending on the focal length it is up to maybe 40%. That is by comparing the old expsoure times against the new exposure times.

With a 4x Barlow it went down from around 70ms to 55ms. Also now it is easier to focus and I see more finer details. Be it what it is, in any way it is much better now :bow:

After having adjusted the etalons to its former adjustemnt the result is amazing.

Maybe it is just the first excitement but no, it looks much better.

The most difficult thing was to remove the rubber inside the threaded hole for that very tiny set screw. By pure coincidence I had that necessary allen key being a 0.9mm size. I had some of these as they are used for adjusting the reticle of the Losmandy Polar finder scopes :woohoo:


regards Rainer

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North 22° West 101°
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Re: Modified SM40 - A Story of Evolution...

Post by rsfoto »

Below the first result with one ERF less in my setup. THis was taken beteen 2 coulds and some very thin high clouds inbetween.

Here the full image size http://astroforo.net/astro/Sol/2012-07- ... 5f-1th.jpg



regards Rainer

Observatorio Real de 14
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North 22° West 101°
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