Baader / Solar Spectrum Telecompressor 0.7x

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Baader / Solar Spectrum Telecompressor 0.7x

Post by marktownley »

Hi There folks.

I was wondering if anyone has a little more information about this product? This is what i've found - http://www.baader-planetarium.de/sektion/s37/s37.htm (about 2/3 down the page).

I'm thinking of using in conjunction with my daystar Quark, as the standard el-cheapo 0.5x focal reducers seem to perform pretty shoddily with it. I was hoping daystar would be true to their word and come good on the 0.5x reducer they were talking about to me, but, it looks like that project with them is on the back burner. (see the convo on their FB page).

I'm presuming this product has specifically been designed for 656nm, certainly looking at the images with it seems to perform very well.

Anyone got one? used one? any thoughts / info you can add?

Thanks

Mark


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Re: Baader / Solar Spectrum Telecompressor 0.7x

Post by mdwmark »

The telecompressor from Baader is a really good design. Just screw it to the back of the filter and you should have no problems with the Daystar filter.
Mark W.


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Re: Baader / Solar Spectrum Telecompressor 0.7x

Post by Valery »

marktownley wrote:Hi There folks.

I was wondering if anyone has a little more information about this product? This is what i've found - http://www.baader-planetarium.de/sektion/s37/s37.htm (about 2/3 down the page).

I'm thinking of using in conjunction with my daystar Quark, as the standard el-cheapo 0.5x focal reducers seem to perform pretty shoddily with it. I was hoping daystar would be true to their word and come good on the 0.5x reducer they were talking about to me, but, it looks like that project with them is on the back burner. (see the convo on their FB page).

I'm presuming this product has specifically been designed for 656nm, certainly looking at the images with it seems to perform very well.

Anyone got one? used one? any thoughts / info you can add?

Thanks

Mark

Mark,

Don't hurry up to buy this al-cheapo 0,7x compressor. I am sure it is the same simple system like cemented doublet.
They do not show us a full story and do not show us a full field of view.
Of course it;s smaller factor of reducing 0,7x vs earlier discussed 0,5x, creates the impression that it is a specifically designed.
The smaller the reducing factor, the smaller the aberrations

Valery.


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Re: Baader / Solar Spectrum Telecompressor 0.7x

Post by swisswalter »

Hi Mark

thanks for the link. Is a shapleylens something different from a reducer ? The reason I ask is, that I have a shapleylens from a C8. It may be worth trying it on a refractor


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Re: Baader / Solar Spectrum Telecompressor 0.7x

Post by Valery »

swisswalter wrote:Hi Mark

thanks for the link. Is a shapleylens something different from a reducer ? The reason I ask is, that I have a shapleylens from a C8. It may be worth trying it on a refractor

Shapley lens (SL) definition: a positive lens system for reducing of the focal length in a long focus tele-system.
So, the SL is just a focal reducer - according to amateur astronomers language.

The SL for C8 will introduce the coma which it corrects in the native C8. It also will introduce a field curvature which it
corrects in the native C8.

For Quark the SL must corresponds to such requirements:

1. To not introduce a field curvature.
2. To not introduce a positive SA at 656nm. Negative SA is wanted but only in the case it corrects or decreases a native SA of the
systems: refractor + Quark or SCT + Quark.
3. To not introduce a field astigmatism. A positive field astigmatism is wanted but only in the case it corrects or decreases a native field
astigmatism of the systems: refractor + Quark or SCT + Quark.

This is impossible in a simple cemented doublet positive lens.

So, any simple cemented doublets will introduce (more or less) it's own SA, field curvature and astigmatism.

Such a reducer for Quark need to be designed with at least 2 separate lenses. Or better the design must be more complicated and
corresponds to all 1,2 and 3 requirements.

Hope this helps.

Valery.
Last edited by Valery on Fri Feb 20, 2015 8:32 pm, edited 1 time in total.


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Re: Baader / Solar Spectrum Telecompressor 0.7x

Post by marktownley »

Thanks folks for the input :)

In the ideal world Valery I would be able to measure all the necessary optical parameters of my scopes, design to the reducer in a bespoke way, and then get it manufactured to my exact tolerances and specification. However the reality of it for me is that these things are not possible.

In the scheme of things the Baader telecompressor is far from an 'el-cheapo', infact it is 10x the price of the majority of the el-cheapo reducers I can buy in the UK. In the absence of the daystar unit, I reckon this is about as good as I can get...


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Re: Baader / Solar Spectrum Telecompressor 0.7x

Post by fjabet »

Had it for a while with the Ion and TZ4, and it was working fine.


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Re: Baader / Solar Spectrum Telecompressor 0.7x

Post by fjabet »

PS : used it with a CMOSIS CMV4000 which it not a small sensor.


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Re: Baader / Solar Spectrum Telecompressor 0.7x

Post by marktownley »

fjabet wrote:PS : used it with a CMOSIS CMV4000 which it not a small sensor.
That's a useful thing to know Frederic, the 0.5 reducer I have at the moment just de-focuses in the corners when used at 0.5x, and also starts to darken quite considerably; and that's using it with a DMK31 which is a small sensor :D

Think I will pull the plug and get one ordered this weekend...

Then I will look at how I can mount it with the quark / PST etalon combination (which is why I posted this in the mods section ;) )


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Re: Baader / Solar Spectrum Telecompressor 0.7x

Post by Valery »

This is a matter of belief. I know for sure what all these simple reducers are, include 0,7x.
I personally disbelieve and took some efforts and created a special reducer for my Quark.
My a three lens one works at 0,3x to 0,5x with the Quark and shows perfect field. It beats
_clearly_ a very nice, specially selected PST 0,3A mod2 resolution wise.


Valery.
Last edited by Valery on Sat Feb 21, 2015 3:49 am, edited 1 time in total.


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Re: Baader / Solar Spectrum Telecompressor 0.7x

Post by marktownley »

Valery wrote:This is a matter of belief. I know for sure that these ar eall simple reducers. And 0,7x
I personally disbelieve and take some efforts and created a special reducer for my Quark.
My three lens one works at 0,3x to 0,5x with Quark and shows perfect feild. I beats
_clearly_ a very nice, specially selected PST 0,3A mod2 resolution wise.


Valery.
Can you share the design for it Valery?


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Re: Baader / Solar Spectrum Telecompressor 0.7x

Post by grimble_cornet »

Mark, for what its worth:
This is what I get with the Equinox 80 and Quark when using the £20 Telescope House Revelation x0.5 reducer on a long (30mm) nosepiece fitted to the Grasshopper at 1280x960. The image is un-cropped so should give an interesting comparison to the reducer you are using re field-curvature?
Equinox 80 Quark Grasshopper at 1280x960 x0.jpg
Equinox 80 Quark Grasshopper at 1280x960 x0_5 reducer Long NP.jpg


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Re: Baader / Solar Spectrum Telecompressor 0.7x

Post by mdwmark »

Well, I only use mine with my old astrovid so if the field is curved I probably never saw it.
When it come to reducing the image size for visual. I just use a longer focal length eye piece.
Now, I have never seem on the posts anyone doing it like ISSON or Hida's set up.
What they use to fit the camera chip size is have a field lens near the primary focal point (after the filter) and use a camera lens to focus on the image. I have a design for a telecompressor that was for my ED80 to fill the 1/4" chip with the full disk. It was design by a real optical designer. It would had cost 10X or more then my whole system to make.
Then he said why don't you use a +250mm field lens and a 50mm lens on the camera that will focus up close and you can make the image size to fit the chip(this is from memory). So I know with the right focal length lens you can fit any size chip with a full disk(if you have one to start with).
One of these days I going to get a new camera and play around with this approach.
Mark W.


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Re: Baader / Solar Spectrum Telecompressor 0.7x

Post by Valery »

grimble_cornet wrote:Mark, for what its worth:
This is what I get with the Equinox 80 and Quark when using the £20 Telescope House Revelation x0.5 reducer on a long (30mm) nosepiece fitted to the Grasshopper at 1280x960. The image is un-cropped so should give an interesting comparison to the reducer you are using re field-curvature?
It is immediately seen that the sharpness in the center is significatly better than at the edges of the chip.


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Re: Baader / Solar Spectrum Telecompressor 0.7x

Post by swisswalter »

Hi Freaks

most interesting discussion here.


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Re: Baader / Solar Spectrum Telecompressor 0.7x

Post by marktownley »

Thanks Mike, looks to be slightly better results with yours than mine.


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Re: Baader / Solar Spectrum Telecompressor 0.7x

Post by grimble_cornet »

Mark; I assume that you are using the DMK31 at 1024x768 pixels?
I have put a frame on my previous images showing the area that would be captured by the DMK31 with the same set-up:
Equinox 80 Quark Grasshopper at 1024x768 mono.jpg
Equinox 80 Quark Grasshopper at 1024x768 colour.jpg
They may not be perfect but I think they look pretty good for a £20 reducer.
I've just been playing with a 2" x0.5 reducer from Teleskop Express which seems to be of a similar quality:
http://www.teleskop-express.de/shop/pro ... hread.html
I'm not sure how I would attach it to my Quark/Grasshopper combination although the friend who loaned it to me also got a 2"-T adaptor which I could use (along with a T-C which I already have) to connect it to the Grasshopper. I would just need to get a 2" eyepiece adaptor for the Quark.
Seem to remember various people talking about having these made when the Quark first appeared but I assume that they are available commercially now?
Not quite sure what you would get for 5 times the price (10 times if the 1.25" works for) by going for the Baader Solar version as I really can't work out what makes it 'better' or 'Ha optimised' from the info they give. Don't get me wrong, I have loads of Baader gear and it is all of a very high standard - well worth the premium price - but I just don't understand what makes this reducer 'special'?


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Re: Baader / Solar Spectrum Telecompressor 0.7x

Post by marktownley »

No, I know what you mean Mike, I just wish there was a little more information out there on it, it's certainly a bit of an enigma. It's one of those things where google doesn't really offer more elaboration...

Thanks for the inset on your image, like you say the result is not too bad. I just want to try and get as much out of my Quark as is possible. I think one of my next steps will be to use the Baader D-ERF upfront with the ED80 and see how much difference keeping as much heat out of the tube as possible does. Too many things I want to experiment on and not enough clear skies to do so!


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Re: Baader / Solar Spectrum Telecompressor 0.7x

Post by grimble_cornet »

Tell me about it :lol:

My Quark got to Daystar yesterday - only took 8 days via 'priority' :roll:

My Moonlite focuser took 36 hours to reach customs in the UK .....been there for 2 days so far so.... might arrive eventually (with a bill) :evil:


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Re: Baader / Solar Spectrum Telecompressor 0.7x

Post by marktownley »

Oh there will be a bill, I think mine was an additional hundred quid ish...


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Re: Baader / Solar Spectrum Telecompressor 0.7x

Post by swisswalter »

"free solar gear from toll" :idea:

please join in , spread the word


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Re: Baader / Solar Spectrum Telecompressor 0.7x

Post by marktownley »

grimble_cornet wrote:I would just need to get a 2" eyepiece adaptor for the Quark.
Seem to remember various people talking about having these made when the Quark first appeared but I assume that they are available commercially now?
Well hang fire on this one Mike, i've just ordered via flea-bay some step up adapters, which if they work will provide a way of attaching t-thread to the quark eyepiece holder threads for about a fiver... As soon as they arrive i'll report back positive or negative...


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Re: Baader / Solar Spectrum Telecompressor 0.7x

Post by grimble_cornet »

Thanks Mark - no rush as my Quark could be 'away on holiday' for some time :roll:


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Re: Baader / Solar Spectrum Telecompressor 0.7x

Post by marktownley »

Ok, for good or for worse I have ordered the Baader telecompressor, I will do a full and unbiased review of its performance... Stay tuned! :)


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Re: Baader / Solar Spectrum Telecompressor 0.7x

Post by grimble_cornet »

It was just a matter of time.................. :lol: :o :lol:


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Re: Baader / Solar Spectrum Telecompressor 0.7x

Post by swisswalter »

Hi Mark

great you ordered the new toy. We should find out also if we need a special TZ for CaK or so ;) . I did my last shots with a TZ4 (Ha optimised ) in CaK :oops:


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Re: Baader / Solar Spectrum Telecompressor 0.7x

Post by marktownley »

grimble_cornet wrote:It was just a matter of time.................. :lol: :o :lol:
ha ha ! You're right there Mike :P


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Re: Baader / Solar Spectrum Telecompressor 0.7x

Post by marktownley »

Ok, so said Baader Telecompressor arrived today...

First point to note, as said in the advertisment it has a male 2" fitting at either end. This is NOT m48, i'm guessing it's an m50.8(?) - so not a straightforward as screwing it on the bottom of a 2" eyepiece fitting...

It's also really heavy, you know when you pick something up and it's just loads heavier than it looks, well this is one of those. So, as you would expect nothing less from me the next thing I did was take it apart... It is a 4 element lens; 2 cemented pairs separated with a spacer, total thickness 16mm from front to back glass face. Rather different than my 2" antares 0.5x reducer I found that I planned to put the glassware from the Baader into (doesn't fit!)

So tonight is mod night, a rummage through the boxes of many bits with a view to putting baader glassware in a more conventional housing...


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Re: Baader / Solar Spectrum Telecompressor 0.7x

Post by grimble_cornet »

That's very prompt service Mark - my focuser has been in customs for almost a week!
The double-ended 2" male fitting seems a bit weird - I can understand that at one end to fit the focuser tube but I'm a bit baffled as to what the other end is 'designed' to fit?
The optics sound promising - certainly much more complex that the simple doublet on the £50 Teleskop Express 2" version I have.
Good luck raiding the 'bits box' and even more luck trying to find some sun to test it on!


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Re: Baader / Solar Spectrum Telecompressor 0.7x

Post by marktownley »

New mounting cell found and made for the optics, now it all goes together in the end of the frankenquark. Clear skies to trial may well be the issue, short of a change in the forecast the weekend isn't looking too good.


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Re: Baader / Solar Spectrum Telecompressor 0.7x

Post by swisswalter »

Hi Mark

great to hear the TC arrived that fast. I would have been disapointed if it had just a few grams ;) there is nothing better than a huge box of bits ;)


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Re: Baader / Solar Spectrum Telecompressor 0.7x

Post by marktownley »

Bit of an update... Like I said I made a housing for the glassware, but it would not fit in any of the donor housings (an old 2" barlow, the 2" 0.5x reducer) I thought I would use as the Baader has 46mm clear aperture of glass. I got it mounted in the end in some old 2" filter cells, but the optical path was getting longer and longer, which is not what I wanted as this would increase the reducing factor, and so also vignetting and distortion / field curvature (maybe? depends what this unit is specified for). So, complete change of tactic and off I went to the Baader website for their beautifully comprehensive collection of adapters - i'd previously avoided this part of the Baader website as I knew it would set my mind awash with ideas for modding and connecting this to that etc...

The T-thread approach is the way to go, one of the 2 adapters I have ordered from China have arrived now, and this will enable me to make a T-thread to Quark connection (unscrewing the Quarks 1.25" eyepiece holder and using the 35mm thread (1.375" 24tpi). Total cost for these adapters including delivery £7 ;)

I then ordered a 2" SCT to t-thread adapter http://www.tringastro.co.uk/baader-plan ... 2514-p.asp to connect the chinese step up rings to the Baader Telecompressor.

The Other side of the telecompressor then has a 2" SCT to male m48 adapter, which allows me to screw on either a 2" eyepiece holder for visual work, or screw on a 2" to 1.25" reducer for when I put the DMK in the end for imaging. By using different accessories I will be able to vary the distance of the CCD to the telecompressor which will give me a variable reducing factor to work with. The trick is not having the reducer too far away from the CCD...

In the mean time lathe skills are being brushed up on at work and I am going to make some adapters that allow me to get
the PST in the optical train in a way that takes up less optical path than it does currently.

When I have all this assembled i'll get some pics of it all, and hopefully the sun will come out and can actually test it properly!


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Re: Baader / Solar Spectrum Telecompressor 0.7x

Post by grimble_cornet »

Sounds like you are having fun even without the sun - but hope you get chance to test it for real soon.
Could you point me at the Chinese adaptor which fits the Quark please? I was browsing Ebay yesterday but couldn't find a convincing 1.375" 24tpi equivalent?


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Re: Baader / Solar Spectrum Telecompressor 0.7x

Post by marktownley »

First one of these on the quark ep holder threads http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/271417053357? ... EBIDX%3AIT

Then one of these in the adapter above to connect to T-thread http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/301085479977? ... EBIDX%3AIT

Costs even less than I thought, only a fiver in total...


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Re: Baader / Solar Spectrum Telecompressor 0.7x

Post by grimble_cornet »

Compared to the cost of some of the stuff I have bought so far this month...... :lol: :oops: :lol:

You are a gentleman :bow2

If I place an order now, it might arrive from China before my Quark clears UK customs :evil:


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Re: Baader / Solar Spectrum Telecompressor 0.7x

Post by swisswalter »

Hi Mark

great to hear about the new strategy. Have more fun in modding and soon a lot of sunshine


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Re: Baader / Solar Spectrum Telecompressor 0.7x

Post by marktownley »

Bit of an update; tried the telecompressor today, alas, as I thought in its current interim housing I did not have enough in focus (that Baader click lock Mike! :D ). So, until new parts and more clear skies arrive we are on hold...


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Re: Baader / Solar Spectrum Telecompressor 0.7x

Post by grimble_cornet »

Mmmmm...... I suspected that might be an issue :evil:

I have ordered the bits you suggested plus a few more 'rings and things' which will allow me to attach my 2" click lock to the Quark or to connect the 2" reducer I have (male 48mm one end, female 48mm at the other) directly to the Quark at one end and to the camera at the other.

I think Daystar have shipped by 'snail mail' as it has taken 4 days just to reach Chicago Airport - I may be right about the bits from China getting here before the Quark :lol: :roll: :lol:


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Re: Baader / Solar Spectrum Telecompressor 0.7x

Post by marktownley »

I also ordered exactly the same bits too - the male / female 48mm fittings, great minds think alike ;)

Just wish said bits would hurry up and arrive, the 'expected delivery' from ebay tells me the bits from china are anywhere from mid march to the start of april :? Tracking says they have left the far east, so looks like we're back to the delay in UK customs again... I bet if crack cocaine was being shipped that would be straight through UK customs, same day delivery :lol:


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Re: Baader / Solar Spectrum Telecompressor 0.7x

Post by mdwmark »

Hi , the reason the Baader telecompressor has 2" male threads on both sides is that it was designed to thread into the universal mounting plate for the Solar Spectrum filter.
The idea is that it screws on the back of the filter, a 2" to T adapter screws on next. Then I would add a T extension to get it close to the new focal point. Then attach the camera with an T-C adapter.
Mark W.


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Re: Baader / Solar Spectrum Telecompressor 0.7x

Post by marktownley »

Thanks Mark, I can see i'm going to be ordering a T-C adapter before too long. Which way round is the reducer supposed to go? One side has longer threads than the other, my guess looking at pictures online is that that short side goes into the filter.


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Re: Baader / Solar Spectrum Telecompressor 0.7x

Post by mdwmark »

Hi Mark ,
Your right the short threads are the front.
Mark W.


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Re: Baader / Solar Spectrum Telecompressor 0.7x

Post by marktownley »

2 words - 'Newtons Rings' (with my setup) :(

Disappointing, because if you ignore the banding it is crystal sharp...


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Re: Baader / Solar Spectrum Telecompressor 0.7x

Post by swisswalter »

marktownley wrote:2 words - 'Newtons Rings' (with my setup) :(

Disappointing, because if you ignore the banding it is crystal sharp...

Oh no. Lately I managed to even create NR's with a 2" Barlow and a PGR CCD. It was just not placed at the right position . Don't give up Mark because of the crystal sharpness.


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Re: Baader / Solar Spectrum Telecompressor 0.7x

Post by marktownley »

I certainly won't give up, i've tried a few things this afternoon to no avail though.


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Re: Baader / Solar Spectrum Telecompressor 0.7x

Post by swisswalter »

Hi Mark

great. Take a break and a beer or two and think it over again ;)


Only stardust in the wind, some fine and some less fine scopes, filters and adapters as well. Switzerland 47 N, 9 E, in the heart of EUROPE :)

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from 7.01 pm - 6.59 am http://www.wastronomiko.com some times vice versa ;)
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Re: Baader / Solar Spectrum Telecompressor 0.7x

Post by grimble_cornet »

That is very disappointing and I wish I understood the physics better :?
As I said to Mark earlier - I get minor NR with my DMK41 plus x2 Barlow but horrendous ones with a x2.5 Powermate. As others have reported problems with the Powermate, there is obviously something in the design which 'tunes into' the NR creation process. It even gives NRs in CaK :o

I have never managed to see a hint of a NR with any set-up using the Grasshopper...... yet :roll:

I have a 'more basic' TS Optics TSRED052 Focal reducer x0.5 2" on loan and will try it with the Quark once the 'bits' arrive from China.


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Re: Baader / Solar Spectrum Telecompressor 0.7x

Post by marktownley »

swisswalter wrote:Hi Mark

great. Take a break and a beer or two and think it over again ;)
That is exactly what is happening Walter, you know me well ;)

despite this set back there are many positives I have learned, however they are the topic of another thread...


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Re: Baader / Solar Spectrum Telecompressor 0.7x

Post by fjabet »

Try to tilt slightly your camera, it may be enough. Interference fringes are with reflections a real PITA in solar imaging :/


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Re: Baader / Solar Spectrum Telecompressor 0.7x

Post by marktownley »

Tried tilting it Frederic, found that it causes a focus shift across the fov :( Like you say, a PITA :(


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