FLIR Grasshopper 3
- Christopher
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FLIR Grasshopper 3
I am starting to narrow down the imaging end of my solar set up. In perusing the various resources (posts, tutorials, vendor sites, etc.) I'm finding that the Point Grey Grasshopper 3 and the ZWO ASI174MM are both very well liked by the solar imaging community. In looking at the Grasshopper (now FLIR) the model GS3-U3-23S6M-C appears to be the Solar sweet spot. It clocks in at 163fps at full resolution while the ZWO is 128fps. It also appears to be the model most closely related to the ZWO 174 sharing the Sony IMX174 CMOS sensor. Besides the fps what other features justify the higher cost of the Grasshopper 3 over the ZWO? Do Grasshopper 3 users typically use external power for the camera or USB 3 power? Besides the two models are there others I should consider?
On the data processing side of the imaging train I'm running a Lenovo Y520/i7 quad core/16GB RAM/256GB SSD/NVIDIA 4GB graphics card/USB 3. Is it up to the task?
Thanks
On the data processing side of the imaging train I'm running a Lenovo Y520/i7 quad core/16GB RAM/256GB SSD/NVIDIA 4GB graphics card/USB 3. Is it up to the task?
Thanks
Christopher
"Our imagination is stretched to the utmost, not, as in fiction, to imagine things which are not really there, but just to comprehend those things which 'are' there.". -Feynman
"Our imagination is stretched to the utmost, not, as in fiction, to imagine things which are not really there, but just to comprehend those things which 'are' there.". -Feynman
- robert
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Re: FLIR Grasshopper 3
Maybe PGR Chameleon3. 3.1Mpx but slower frame rate. USB3 and works off a laptop usb. Cheaper too I think.
Robert
Robert
images and animations http://tinyurl.com/h5bgoso
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ED80. ED100. Celestron-150mm-PST mod. C8 edge. ES127
LS60PT-LS60F-B1200. B600-Cak. PGR-Ch3-IMX265
2024 images https://www.flickr.com/photos/69734017@ ... 0313830045
2023 images https://www.flickr.com/photos/69734017@ ... 0304905278
ED80. ED100. Celestron-150mm-PST mod. C8 edge. ES127
LS60PT-LS60F-B1200. B600-Cak. PGR-Ch3-IMX265
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Re: FLIR Grasshopper 3
Hi Christopher,
I use the Grasshopper you describe and am really happy with it. No external power, but USB3. Your laptop has way better specs than mine so definitely no problems there. Bought the Grasshopper second hand.
Good luck choosing, Bart.
I use the Grasshopper you describe and am really happy with it. No external power, but USB3. Your laptop has way better specs than mine so definitely no problems there. Bought the Grasshopper second hand.
Good luck choosing, Bart.
- Christopher
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Re: FLIR Grasshopper 3
Thanks Robert and Bart for the insights. Still leaning towards the Grasshopper 3. I remain curious about the differences compared to the ZWO. I don’t see that the ZWO has any buffer memory which I suspect may play into the slower FPS. I’ve been watching the classifieds for a nice used one but it appears to be a rare commodity All in all, the Grasshopper sounds like a sure bet. Compared to deep sky astrophotography hitting the sweet spot gear-wise (mount, camera) is a bit easier on the wallet. Until you add the optics....
Christopher
"Our imagination is stretched to the utmost, not, as in fiction, to imagine things which are not really there, but just to comprehend those things which 'are' there.". -Feynman
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Re: FLIR Grasshopper 3
The FLIR cameras can be powered externally which results in lower noise than powering by USB.
http://brierleyhillsolar.blogspot.co.uk/
Solar images, a collection of all the most up to date live solar data on the web, imaging & processing tutorials - please take a look!
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Re: FLIR Grasshopper 3
Mark, do you think it would be a big difference if you power it externally? Thanks! Bart.
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Re: FLIR Grasshopper 3
Yes, absolutely. You can use the gain function quite judiciously without introducing noise. I'm a hifi nut in a parallel life so know the benefits quality power can bring.
http://brierleyhillsolar.blogspot.co.uk/
Solar images, a collection of all the most up to date live solar data on the web, imaging & processing tutorials - please take a look!
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Re: FLIR Grasshopper 3
Ok, thanks!
So now on the look out for an external power cable for the Grasshopper. Gpio to cigarette jack I suppose?
So now on the look out for an external power cable for the Grasshopper. Gpio to cigarette jack I suppose?
- Christopher
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Re: FLIR Grasshopper 3
Hi Mark,
Thanks for weighing in. I suspected there would be an external power advantage. I see some power supply options on eBay that would work quite nicely.
Thanks for weighing in. I suspected there would be an external power advantage. I see some power supply options on eBay that would work quite nicely.
Christopher
"Our imagination is stretched to the utmost, not, as in fiction, to imagine things which are not really there, but just to comprehend those things which 'are' there.". -Feynman
"Our imagination is stretched to the utmost, not, as in fiction, to imagine things which are not really there, but just to comprehend those things which 'are' there.". -Feynman
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Re: FLIR Grasshopper 3
Christopher,
Flir / PGR has this one in their shop:
https://www.ptgrey.com/12v-15a-18w-wall ... ng-harness
If you have found a cheaper option please let me know.
Thanks! Bart.
Flir / PGR has this one in their shop:
https://www.ptgrey.com/12v-15a-18w-wall ... ng-harness
If you have found a cheaper option please let me know.
Thanks! Bart.
- marktownley
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Re: FLIR Grasshopper 3
Rupert has lots of power cables http://astrograph.net/epages/www_astrog ... no_Cameras
I would power from a 12v battery, much less noise than any mains power supply.
I would power from a 12v battery, much less noise than any mains power supply.
http://brierleyhillsolar.blogspot.co.uk/
Solar images, a collection of all the most up to date live solar data on the web, imaging & processing tutorials - please take a look!
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Re: FLIR Grasshopper 3
Thanks Mark, I have sent a mail to Rupert.
@Christopher: hope I can tell you soon what the difference in noise level is between USB powered and externally powered. (-;
@Christopher: hope I can tell you soon what the difference in noise level is between USB powered and externally powered. (-;
- Christopher
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Re: FLIR Grasshopper 3
Hi Bart,
Here's the cable only from FLIR's website as well. https://www.ptgrey.com/1-meter-circular ... -connector
Seems the pin count varies widely on the circular hirose connectors. I didn't find anything better/cheaper. Unless you want to make your own. Then you can buy a bag of the connectors and supply the wire.
I'll probably end up buying the cable only from FLIR and splice it to a cigarette lighter cable for 12 volts.
Here's the cable only from FLIR's website as well. https://www.ptgrey.com/1-meter-circular ... -connector
Seems the pin count varies widely on the circular hirose connectors. I didn't find anything better/cheaper. Unless you want to make your own. Then you can buy a bag of the connectors and supply the wire.
I'll probably end up buying the cable only from FLIR and splice it to a cigarette lighter cable for 12 volts.
Christopher
"Our imagination is stretched to the utmost, not, as in fiction, to imagine things which are not really there, but just to comprehend those things which 'are' there.". -Feynman
"Our imagination is stretched to the utmost, not, as in fiction, to imagine things which are not really there, but just to comprehend those things which 'are' there.". -Feynman
- Christopher
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Re: FLIR Grasshopper 3
Is anybody using the QHY5III174M? It runs at 138fps full resolution which is nearly the rating on the Grasshopper 3 for a considerably smaller investment. It does not have a separate external power jack or the built in memory buffer. I'm thinking the buffer may be overkill for my situation given the power of my laptop.
Christopher
"Our imagination is stretched to the utmost, not, as in fiction, to imagine things which are not really there, but just to comprehend those things which 'are' there.". -Feynman
"Our imagination is stretched to the utmost, not, as in fiction, to imagine things which are not really there, but just to comprehend those things which 'are' there.". -Feynman
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Re: FLIR Grasshopper 3
Thanks to Mark I contacted Rupert and will buy a Flirt cable connected with a male RCA connector.
- pedro
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Re: FLIR Grasshopper 3
Hi Christopher
You should also consider slower CCD video cameras by FLIR (PGR). I use two with great results
GRASSHOPPER 3 2.8 MP MONO (GS3-U3-28S5M-C)
http://re.apaaweb.com/grasshopper3.pdf
GRASSHOPPER 3 2.8 MP MONO (GS3-U3-28S4M-C)
http://re.apaaweb.com/grasshopper3.pdf
best regards
You should also consider slower CCD video cameras by FLIR (PGR). I use two with great results
GRASSHOPPER 3 2.8 MP MONO (GS3-U3-28S5M-C)
http://re.apaaweb.com/grasshopper3.pdf
GRASSHOPPER 3 2.8 MP MONO (GS3-U3-28S4M-C)
http://re.apaaweb.com/grasshopper3.pdf
best regards
Pedro Re'
https://pedroreastrophotography.com/
https://pedroreastrophotography.com/
- Christopher
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Re: FLIR Grasshopper 3
Hi Pedro,
Interesting. What are the advantages to the slower versions of this platform?
Thanks,
Interesting. What are the advantages to the slower versions of this platform?
Thanks,
Christopher
"Our imagination is stretched to the utmost, not, as in fiction, to imagine things which are not really there, but just to comprehend those things which 'are' there.". -Feynman
"Our imagination is stretched to the utmost, not, as in fiction, to imagine things which are not really there, but just to comprehend those things which 'are' there.". -Feynman
- pedro
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Re: FLIR Grasshopper 3
Hi Christopher
CCDs are IMHO much better than CMOS cameras (less noise, better dynamic range). I use the PGR Grasshopper 3 most of the times for solar and lunar imaging. I also have other cameras with CMOS (ZWO and FLIR). CMOS are faster but the images have a lower dynamic range (very important in solar imaging)
CCDs are IMHO much better than CMOS cameras (less noise, better dynamic range). I use the PGR Grasshopper 3 most of the times for solar and lunar imaging. I also have other cameras with CMOS (ZWO and FLIR). CMOS are faster but the images have a lower dynamic range (very important in solar imaging)
Last edited by pedro on Thu Aug 30, 2018 8:19 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Pedro Re'
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- Bob Yoesle
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Re: FLIR Grasshopper 3
Hi Pedro,
Just curious about what CMOS sensors your cameras are using, as FLIR (PGR) states the newer Sony Pregius CMOS sensors have lower noise and dynamic ranges equal or better than CCD sensors:
https://www.ptgrey.com/sony-pregius-glo ... technology
https://youtu.be/_kaOZrEjbec
https://youtu.be/u6NQ88ub-Hc
Just curious about what CMOS sensors your cameras are using, as FLIR (PGR) states the newer Sony Pregius CMOS sensors have lower noise and dynamic ranges equal or better than CCD sensors:
https://www.ptgrey.com/sony-pregius-glo ... technology
https://youtu.be/_kaOZrEjbec
https://youtu.be/u6NQ88ub-Hc
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- Christopher
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Re: FLIR Grasshopper 3
Hi Pedro,
I had a similar question to Bob's. As a result of your post I began looking more closely at the dynamic range (DR) specs on some capable units and comparing them. Thanks for that! I'm also seeing the Pregius sensors improve on DR rather than degrade. And just to clarify what we all mean by DR - the limits of the luminance range that a given digital camera can capture measured in decibels. Here's a view of 3 cameras (3 CCD and 1 Pregius CMOS):
Model******************Sensor*************Dynamic Range (db)
BFLY-PGE-13S2M-CS**ICX445 (CCD)****58.33
GS3-U3-28S4M-C*****ICX687 (CCD)****58.56 (Mode 0) / 60.62 (Mode 7)
GS3-U3-28S5M-C*****ICX674 (CCD)****62.87 (Mode 0) / 62.55 (Mode 7)
GS3-U3-23S6M-C*****IMX174 (CMOS)**66.29 (Mode 0) / 72.94 (Mode 7)
I know that when CMOS was initially introduced as an option there was a bias towards the better CCDs and their suitability for solar imaging. I wonder if sensors like the Sony Pregius line are a shift in terms of the solar/lunar and planetary results one can expect from CMOS based cameras.
Thanks,
I had a similar question to Bob's. As a result of your post I began looking more closely at the dynamic range (DR) specs on some capable units and comparing them. Thanks for that! I'm also seeing the Pregius sensors improve on DR rather than degrade. And just to clarify what we all mean by DR - the limits of the luminance range that a given digital camera can capture measured in decibels. Here's a view of 3 cameras (3 CCD and 1 Pregius CMOS):
Model******************Sensor*************Dynamic Range (db)
BFLY-PGE-13S2M-CS**ICX445 (CCD)****58.33
GS3-U3-28S4M-C*****ICX687 (CCD)****58.56 (Mode 0) / 60.62 (Mode 7)
GS3-U3-28S5M-C*****ICX674 (CCD)****62.87 (Mode 0) / 62.55 (Mode 7)
GS3-U3-23S6M-C*****IMX174 (CMOS)**66.29 (Mode 0) / 72.94 (Mode 7)
I know that when CMOS was initially introduced as an option there was a bias towards the better CCDs and their suitability for solar imaging. I wonder if sensors like the Sony Pregius line are a shift in terms of the solar/lunar and planetary results one can expect from CMOS based cameras.
Thanks,
Christopher
"Our imagination is stretched to the utmost, not, as in fiction, to imagine things which are not really there, but just to comprehend those things which 'are' there.". -Feynman
"Our imagination is stretched to the utmost, not, as in fiction, to imagine things which are not really there, but just to comprehend those things which 'are' there.". -Feynman
- pedro
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Re: FLIR Grasshopper 3
I only saw this post today, sorry about that
I have several CMOS cameras but I never used the Sony Pregius CMOS sensors
I used the ZWO ASI174MM and the dynamic range is not that great (same chip as the GS3-U3-23S6M-C)
My main cameras are the GS3-U3-28S4M-C & GS3-U3-28S5M-C (CCD)
I have several CMOS cameras but I never used the Sony Pregius CMOS sensors
I used the ZWO ASI174MM and the dynamic range is not that great (same chip as the GS3-U3-23S6M-C)
My main cameras are the GS3-U3-28S4M-C & GS3-U3-28S5M-C (CCD)
Pedro Re'
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https://pedroreastrophotography.com/