ZWO ASI 178 or 183 mono
- Merlin66
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ZWO ASI 178 or 183 mono
Any comment/ recommendations on either of these two cameras for full disk solar recording.
I realise the 183 with the larger chip will give more flexibility on telescope focal length, but I think at the price of over sampling with the 2.4micron pixel.
Any users out there????
I realise the 183 with the larger chip will give more flexibility on telescope focal length, but I think at the price of over sampling with the 2.4micron pixel.
Any users out there????
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Re: ZWO ASI 178 or 183 mono
Hi Ken...
I don't have either of these cameras, but I do use the ASI290 with 2.9u pixels for planetary work and it works pretty nicely.
As for the two you mentioned they appear to be pretty much identical...same size pixels, same exposure range, not a lot of direct spectral response info on the ZWO site, but the 183 looks to be a scaled up array from the 178 chip. The 178 is listed as being 14 bit and the 183 is listed at 12 bit and both have rolling shutter. The ZWO site does not list read noise, QE, or full well capacity for the 178 and only states the noise for the 183. I'm sure they are listed d on the manufacturers data sheets, just no time to hunt them down right now.
The 183 should do well for full disk with focal lengths under 900mm which has a FOV 50' x 33' which will have poles hugging the edge of the field. For longer focal lengths you could bin to reduce over sampling and maybe gain some on the frame rate too.
I have not been happy with the ASI1600 I picked up 2 years ago...this might be an alternative option for doing full disks!!!
Brian
I don't have either of these cameras, but I do use the ASI290 with 2.9u pixels for planetary work and it works pretty nicely.
As for the two you mentioned they appear to be pretty much identical...same size pixels, same exposure range, not a lot of direct spectral response info on the ZWO site, but the 183 looks to be a scaled up array from the 178 chip. The 178 is listed as being 14 bit and the 183 is listed at 12 bit and both have rolling shutter. The ZWO site does not list read noise, QE, or full well capacity for the 178 and only states the noise for the 183. I'm sure they are listed d on the manufacturers data sheets, just no time to hunt them down right now.
The 183 should do well for full disk with focal lengths under 900mm which has a FOV 50' x 33' which will have poles hugging the edge of the field. For longer focal lengths you could bin to reduce over sampling and maybe gain some on the frame rate too.
I have not been happy with the ASI1600 I picked up 2 years ago...this might be an alternative option for doing full disks!!!
Brian
Brian Colville
Maple Ridge Observatory
Cambray, ON Canada
Photos: https://www.flickr.com/photos/185395281@N08/albums
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iOptron CEM70G Mount carrying:
Orion EON 130ED, f7 OTA for Day & Night Use
Ha Setup: Lunt LS80PT/LS75FHa/B1200Ha + Home Brew Lunt Double Stack/B1800Ha on the Orion OTA + Daystar Quantum
WL, G-Band & CaK Setup: Lunt Wedge & Lunt B1800CaK, Baader K-Line and Altair 2nm G-Band filter
ASI1600MM, ASI432MM, ASI294MM Pro, ASI174MM, ASI462MM
Maple Ridge Observatory
Cambray, ON Canada
Photos: https://www.flickr.com/photos/185395281@N08/albums
10'x15 Roll-off Roof Observatory
Takahashi EM400 Mount carrying:
C14 + Lunt 80ED
Deep Sky Work - ASI294MM Pro+EFW 7x36/Canon 60D (Ha mod), ONAG
Planetary Work - SBIG CFW10, ASI462MM
2.2m Diameter Dome
iOptron CEM70G Mount carrying:
Orion EON 130ED, f7 OTA for Day & Night Use
Ha Setup: Lunt LS80PT/LS75FHa/B1200Ha + Home Brew Lunt Double Stack/B1800Ha on the Orion OTA + Daystar Quantum
WL, G-Band & CaK Setup: Lunt Wedge & Lunt B1800CaK, Baader K-Line and Altair 2nm G-Band filter
ASI1600MM, ASI432MM, ASI294MM Pro, ASI174MM, ASI462MM
- Merlin66
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Re: ZWO ASI 178 or 183 mono
Brian,
Thanks for that.
A reduced ROI with the 183 to the same fov as 178 seems to allow the same high frame rates....
Note: Binning doesn't appear to be an option on CMOS cameras
Thanks for that.
A reduced ROI with the 183 to the same fov as 178 seems to allow the same high frame rates....
Note: Binning doesn't appear to be an option on CMOS cameras
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Re: ZWO ASI 178 or 183 mono
Hello Ken,
Are you sure you are so willing to spend a lot of money for a new camera to image a bald sun for a next couple of years untill the sun will start to awoke?
http://halpha.nso.edu/keep/hag/201802/2 ... 3830Ch.jpg
I believe that now is a time to image the sun locally, it's most interesting things like prominences, dark filaments and may be rare smaller spots. Needs at least 100mm of aperture.
When the sun will be active again and looks nicely, better or cheaper camers will be on the market for the sun portraits.
Valery
Are you sure you are so willing to spend a lot of money for a new camera to image a bald sun for a next couple of years untill the sun will start to awoke?
http://halpha.nso.edu/keep/hag/201802/2 ... 3830Ch.jpg
I believe that now is a time to image the sun locally, it's most interesting things like prominences, dark filaments and may be rare smaller spots. Needs at least 100mm of aperture.
When the sun will be active again and looks nicely, better or cheaper camers will be on the market for the sun portraits.
Valery
Last edited by Valery on Sat Feb 17, 2018 5:31 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Largest full size 185 - 356mm Dielectric Energy Rejection Filters (D-ERF) by ARIES Instruments.
Largest full size 185 - 356mm Dielectric Energy Rejection Filters (D-ERF) by ARIES Instruments.
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Re: ZWO ASI 178 or 183 mono
Why ?
"Solar H alpha activity is the most dynamic and compelling thing you can see in a telescope, so spend accordingly." (c) Bob Yoesle.
Largest full size 185 - 356mm Dielectric Energy Rejection Filters (D-ERF) by ARIES Instruments.
Largest full size 185 - 356mm Dielectric Energy Rejection Filters (D-ERF) by ARIES Instruments.
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Re: ZWO ASI 178 or 183 mono
To quote a reply I got:
""
Its the CMOS architecture. With CCD there is just one ADC. The electrons in each row are shifted down then on the bottom row, each pixel gets shifted to be read and digitised in the ADC. To bin 2x2, two rows are shifted down (and their electrons combined) and then two pixels get shifted to the read circuitry.
With CMOS there is an ADC on each row so the pixels on each row get shifted together to their respective read circuits and ADCs so there is no opportunity to combine the charges from each row before reading.
""
I agree things may be quiet for a while, but I still have opportunities with the multi-band Spectroheliograph.
My current options are the small QHY5Lii and the ASI 174MM. There's also the older DMK41 and the slooooow (doesn't like USB3) DMK51.
""
Its the CMOS architecture. With CCD there is just one ADC. The electrons in each row are shifted down then on the bottom row, each pixel gets shifted to be read and digitised in the ADC. To bin 2x2, two rows are shifted down (and their electrons combined) and then two pixels get shifted to the read circuitry.
With CMOS there is an ADC on each row so the pixels on each row get shifted together to their respective read circuits and ADCs so there is no opportunity to combine the charges from each row before reading.
""
I agree things may be quiet for a while, but I still have opportunities with the multi-band Spectroheliograph.
My current options are the small QHY5Lii and the ASI 174MM. There's also the older DMK41 and the slooooow (doesn't like USB3) DMK51.
"Astronomical Spectroscopy - The Final Frontier" - to boldly go where few amateurs have gone before
https://groups.io/g/astronomicalspectroscopy
http://astronomicalspectroscopy.com
"Astronomical Spectroscopy for Amateurs" and
"Imaging Sunlight - using a digital spectroheliograph" - Springer
https://groups.io/g/astronomicalspectroscopy
http://astronomicalspectroscopy.com
"Astronomical Spectroscopy for Amateurs" and
"Imaging Sunlight - using a digital spectroheliograph" - Springer
- PDB
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Re: ZWO ASI 178 or 183 mono
Hi,
I have the ASI178 mono and for planetary imaging with the C8 in the focal plane it is a good match (just slightly oversampled) . For solar work that cam gives me constant headaches due to square artifacts which always show up in the image. This seems to happen only in H-Alfa and also if I do some testing under LED light.
Paul
I have the ASI178 mono and for planetary imaging with the C8 in the focal plane it is a good match (just slightly oversampled) . For solar work that cam gives me constant headaches due to square artifacts which always show up in the image. This seems to happen only in H-Alfa and also if I do some testing under LED light.
Paul
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Re: ZWO ASI 178 or 183 mono
Bumping this thread to see if more people have experience with the ASI 183 for Ha Solar with DayStar Quark.....or other recommendations. Figure I will try to get info as the sun is entering cycle 25 and figure now is time to start getting info for comparison. The ASI 183 is currently on sale for $100 off normal price.
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Astro Physics 900 and 1100 mounts, Ioptron MINI Tower Pro ALT/AZ mount, ZWO AM5 mount,
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Player One Neptune mono with 178 chip, 256mm DDR, tilt plane for solar imaging
ASI 071 Pro cooled color for DS imaging
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Re: ZWO ASI 178 or 183 mono
Don't buy an ASI 183mm for solar imaging....
ZWO have acknowledged a "technical problem" with the ASI 183 when imaging in extreme narrow band ie solar Ha.
I bought one....and eventually ZWO accepted it back as part exchange on an ASI 1600MM. No issues with the ASI 1600MM.
ZWO have acknowledged a "technical problem" with the ASI 183 when imaging in extreme narrow band ie solar Ha.
I bought one....and eventually ZWO accepted it back as part exchange on an ASI 1600MM. No issues with the ASI 1600MM.
"Astronomical Spectroscopy - The Final Frontier" - to boldly go where few amateurs have gone before
https://groups.io/g/astronomicalspectroscopy
http://astronomicalspectroscopy.com
"Astronomical Spectroscopy for Amateurs" and
"Imaging Sunlight - using a digital spectroheliograph" - Springer
https://groups.io/g/astronomicalspectroscopy
http://astronomicalspectroscopy.com
"Astronomical Spectroscopy for Amateurs" and
"Imaging Sunlight - using a digital spectroheliograph" - Springer
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Re: ZWO ASI 178 or 183 mono
HI Ken
I use an ASI290MC for planetary imaging with good results. For the sun (FD imaging) I would recommend the ASI174MM (more expensive though)
I use an ASI290MC for planetary imaging with good results. For the sun (FD imaging) I would recommend the ASI174MM (more expensive though)
Pedro Re'
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Re: ZWO ASI 178 or 183 mono
Hello,
Full disc in one FOV, or mosaics?
The 2.4um pixel size makes a lot of sense for full disc images of the sun, but more appropriately will work with 400mm focal length (ASI178MM anyways) to get the FOV without doing a mosaic. The 183MM sensor size will allow a longer focal length, but with the same size pixel, you're not going to be doing anything differently with that long focal length as you end up using ROI just to do the same thing. So ultimately the 178MM is the better choice likely for full disc imaging at 2.4um with a short focal length, especially considering poor seeing.
I've used a 178 sensor for a while for solar and it was fine, both with a small aperture and short focal length and way oversampled with a 120mm aperture. I didn't have any pattern issues or anything, that has to do with drivers and stuff, the chip is fine for narrowband. At 6MP, they're not fast. But speed isn't needed for small image scale like full discs.
I plan on getting another 178MM soon specifically for full disc, and other imaging, with my ~F10 options.
Very best,
Full disc in one FOV, or mosaics?
The 2.4um pixel size makes a lot of sense for full disc images of the sun, but more appropriately will work with 400mm focal length (ASI178MM anyways) to get the FOV without doing a mosaic. The 183MM sensor size will allow a longer focal length, but with the same size pixel, you're not going to be doing anything differently with that long focal length as you end up using ROI just to do the same thing. So ultimately the 178MM is the better choice likely for full disc imaging at 2.4um with a short focal length, especially considering poor seeing.
I've used a 178 sensor for a while for solar and it was fine, both with a small aperture and short focal length and way oversampled with a 120mm aperture. I didn't have any pattern issues or anything, that has to do with drivers and stuff, the chip is fine for narrowband. At 6MP, they're not fast. But speed isn't needed for small image scale like full discs.
I plan on getting another 178MM soon specifically for full disc, and other imaging, with my ~F10 options.
Very best,
- MapleRidge
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Re: ZWO ASI 178 or 183 mono
Hi Ken...
What are the odds of using the 173 chip successfully in WL and CaK? The limits in Ha make cameras based on this chip less desirable as a 3 band machine, but it would be good to know where it might fit for solar.
Brian
What are the odds of using the 173 chip successfully in WL and CaK? The limits in Ha make cameras based on this chip less desirable as a 3 band machine, but it would be good to know where it might fit for solar.
Brian
Brian Colville
Maple Ridge Observatory
Cambray, ON Canada
Photos: https://www.flickr.com/photos/185395281@N08/albums
10'x15 Roll-off Roof Observatory
Takahashi EM400 Mount carrying:
C14 + Lunt 80ED
Deep Sky Work - ASI294MM Pro+EFW 7x36/Canon 60D (Ha mod), ONAG
Planetary Work - SBIG CFW10, ASI462MM
2.2m Diameter Dome
iOptron CEM70G Mount carrying:
Orion EON 130ED, f7 OTA for Day & Night Use
Ha Setup: Lunt LS80PT/LS75FHa/B1200Ha + Home Brew Lunt Double Stack/B1800Ha on the Orion OTA + Daystar Quantum
WL, G-Band & CaK Setup: Lunt Wedge & Lunt B1800CaK, Baader K-Line and Altair 2nm G-Band filter
ASI1600MM, ASI432MM, ASI294MM Pro, ASI174MM, ASI462MM
Maple Ridge Observatory
Cambray, ON Canada
Photos: https://www.flickr.com/photos/185395281@N08/albums
10'x15 Roll-off Roof Observatory
Takahashi EM400 Mount carrying:
C14 + Lunt 80ED
Deep Sky Work - ASI294MM Pro+EFW 7x36/Canon 60D (Ha mod), ONAG
Planetary Work - SBIG CFW10, ASI462MM
2.2m Diameter Dome
iOptron CEM70G Mount carrying:
Orion EON 130ED, f7 OTA for Day & Night Use
Ha Setup: Lunt LS80PT/LS75FHa/B1200Ha + Home Brew Lunt Double Stack/B1800Ha on the Orion OTA + Daystar Quantum
WL, G-Band & CaK Setup: Lunt Wedge & Lunt B1800CaK, Baader K-Line and Altair 2nm G-Band filter
ASI1600MM, ASI432MM, ASI294MM Pro, ASI174MM, ASI462MM
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Re: ZWO ASI 178 or 183 mono
Brian,
I assume you mean the ASI 174?
I've used it successfully at all wavelengths (CaH to Ha) but needed the tilter to suppress NR.
If you mean the ASI 183 - should be OK in white light but I think, based on the known issues, would suffer in CaK narrowband.
I assume you mean the ASI 174?
I've used it successfully at all wavelengths (CaH to Ha) but needed the tilter to suppress NR.
If you mean the ASI 183 - should be OK in white light but I think, based on the known issues, would suffer in CaK narrowband.
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"Astronomical Spectroscopy for Amateurs" and
"Imaging Sunlight - using a digital spectroheliograph" - Springer
https://groups.io/g/astronomicalspectroscopy
http://astronomicalspectroscopy.com
"Astronomical Spectroscopy for Amateurs" and
"Imaging Sunlight - using a digital spectroheliograph" - Springer
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Re: ZWO ASI 178 or 183 mono
Hi Ken...
Yes, it was the 183 chip I was referring to. I wasn't sure if the problem was related to Ha specifically or any narrow band usage. I have used the 174 in all bands without any issues as well, and use a tilt adjuster in Ha as well.
Brian
Yes, it was the 183 chip I was referring to. I wasn't sure if the problem was related to Ha specifically or any narrow band usage. I have used the 174 in all bands without any issues as well, and use a tilt adjuster in Ha as well.
Brian
Brian Colville
Maple Ridge Observatory
Cambray, ON Canada
Photos: https://www.flickr.com/photos/185395281@N08/albums
10'x15 Roll-off Roof Observatory
Takahashi EM400 Mount carrying:
C14 + Lunt 80ED
Deep Sky Work - ASI294MM Pro+EFW 7x36/Canon 60D (Ha mod), ONAG
Planetary Work - SBIG CFW10, ASI462MM
2.2m Diameter Dome
iOptron CEM70G Mount carrying:
Orion EON 130ED, f7 OTA for Day & Night Use
Ha Setup: Lunt LS80PT/LS75FHa/B1200Ha + Home Brew Lunt Double Stack/B1800Ha on the Orion OTA + Daystar Quantum
WL, G-Band & CaK Setup: Lunt Wedge & Lunt B1800CaK, Baader K-Line and Altair 2nm G-Band filter
ASI1600MM, ASI432MM, ASI294MM Pro, ASI174MM, ASI462MM
Maple Ridge Observatory
Cambray, ON Canada
Photos: https://www.flickr.com/photos/185395281@N08/albums
10'x15 Roll-off Roof Observatory
Takahashi EM400 Mount carrying:
C14 + Lunt 80ED
Deep Sky Work - ASI294MM Pro+EFW 7x36/Canon 60D (Ha mod), ONAG
Planetary Work - SBIG CFW10, ASI462MM
2.2m Diameter Dome
iOptron CEM70G Mount carrying:
Orion EON 130ED, f7 OTA for Day & Night Use
Ha Setup: Lunt LS80PT/LS75FHa/B1200Ha + Home Brew Lunt Double Stack/B1800Ha on the Orion OTA + Daystar Quantum
WL, G-Band & CaK Setup: Lunt Wedge & Lunt B1800CaK, Baader K-Line and Altair 2nm G-Band filter
ASI1600MM, ASI432MM, ASI294MM Pro, ASI174MM, ASI462MM