UV/IR cut filter suggestion for Daystar Quark Calcium H

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UV/IR cut filter suggestion for Daystar Quark Calcium H

Post by sywong2000 »

Hi everyone,

Daystars confirmed my order on a Quark Calcium H and they'll be shipping soon. I'm going to use it in on a refractor with 76mm aperature and get it up to F/11- F/12 for imaging use.

I understand that the UV/IR cut is recommended by Daystar as a pre-blocking filter, probably to allow the built-in blocking filter to endure better. I'm thinking to go for a Astronomik L1. And I'm not going to use a diagonal.

It appears 2" is better than 1.25" as it blocks the energy in a wider field so that means less heat, probably. But I wonder how much different that would be comparing to a 1.25"?

It appears Daystar will provide a 2" nosepiece adapter in their package. I tried to search about it on the Internet but not finding anyone mentioning to fasten a 2" filter onto the nosepiece. Anyone can share some experiences?

Any suggestions are welcome! Thank you!

Stephen


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Re: UV/IR cut filter suggestion for Daystar Quark Calcium H

Post by Bob Yoesle »

I'd go with a Baader K line filter for ultimate protection of the Quark. You can remove the un-tilted filter and keep the other that is tilted. See here. After that consider one of the Blue filters listed such as the ZWO B.


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Re: UV/IR cut filter suggestion for Daystar Quark Calcium H

Post by sywong2000 »

Thanks Bob, great info!

How about a Baader K line + Beloptics KG3 UV/IR cut? I can see your other post regarding on getting less heat to protect PST Cal K unit. I'm not sure how ZWO B would do beyond 1000nm, and also the ZWO filters are usually available in a set (LRGB) - I'm not sure if my local dealer can offer me a B only. That's why I'm thinking it a Beloptics UV/IR instead.

The Baader K line seemed to have a narrower bandpass - am I correct that to use it with either the ZWO B or a UV/IR but not necessary both?

Noted about the tilting - thanks for the tip!

Regards,
Stephen


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Re: UV/IR cut filter suggestion for Daystar Quark Calcium H

Post by Bob Yoesle »

Hi Stephen,

I have found out the BelOptik UV/IR block on KG3 cuts too close to 400 nm - Oliver told me it could be +/- 10 nm, and could significantly impact transmission at 394 nm. So instead I would now recommend using a straight KG 3 from Andover, Barr, etc. if you want longer IR absorption. The K line is already adequately blocked for UV. If you used it you wouldn't need the ZWO B.

Therefore my ideal recommendation would be the single stack K line tilted and a regular KG3. I would place the KG3 after the K line...


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Re: UV/IR cut filter suggestion for Daystar Quark Calcium H

Post by RomanH »

Thanks for another great thread and valuable answers. I have the same question on my mind. I have Daystar Quark CaH and now using it with 155mm f8 APO. So far I tried Astronomik L3, Astronomik Blue, Astronomik IR cut, Baader UV and Antlia CaK filter as ERF filter.

The best energy rejection filter is Baader UV. It also gave me the best image. The second best is Astronomik IR cut filter (but this one pass much more heat). Astronomik Blue was terrible - pass too much heat and image was too dark and with very low contrast with washed out details. The same problem was with Astronomik L3 filter - too much heat and very low contrast and very dark image. The same with Antlia CaK, since its 3nm wide, centered at 393nm (Daystar CaH is at 396nm).

Since I do also images with H alpha and Green filter, its not very practical always dismantle everything (camera, etalon, barlow/powermate, diagonal, filter) so I use now only IR cut filter as ERF for all filters. I think about "double stack" it so it pass less heat. Actually I "just" need good ir cut filter (not UV/IR cut). I need to find some seller of that KG3 (or maybe KG5?). Problem with KG3/5 might be that its heat absorbing, not interference filter. Also thanks for the link to those filters transmissions. That ZWO B filter looks very good. Also I cannot praise enough Solar Astronomy book where I found tons of very valuable informations about solar imaging.

Another question I have on my mind is - if I use good filter as ERF before diagonal, where all that heat go? I think it stays inside the refractor tube and will create some extra turbulence that lower the image quality. I hope its not dangerous for refractor itself. So far I didnt notice any front lens heating while doing imaging session (usually I do 2.5 minutes video and then cover the telescope for 1-3 minutes, then continue with another video).


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Re: UV/IR cut filter suggestion for Daystar Quark Calcium H

Post by TareqPhoto »

RomanH wrote: Sat May 21, 2022 8:15 pm Thanks for another great thread and valuable answers. I have the same question on my mind. I have Daystar Quark CaH and now using it with 155mm f8 APO. So far I tried Astronomik L3, Astronomik Blue, Astronomik IR cut, Baader UV and Antlia CaK filter as ERF filter.

The best energy rejection filter is Baader UV. It also gave me the best image. The second best is Astronomik IR cut filter (but this one pass much more heat). Astronomik Blue was terrible - pass too much heat and image was too dark and with very low contrast with washed out details. The same problem was with Astronomik L3 filter - too much heat and very low contrast and very dark image. The same with Antlia CaK, since its 3nm wide, centered at 393nm (Daystar CaH is at 396nm).

Since I do also images with H alpha and Green filter, its not very practical always dismantle everything (camera, etalon, barlow/powermate, diagonal, filter) so I use now only IR cut filter as ERF for all filters. I think about "double stack" it so it pass less heat. Actually I "just" need good ir cut filter (not UV/IR cut). I need to find some seller of that KG3 (or maybe KG5?). Problem with KG3/5 might be that its heat absorbing, not interference filter. Also thanks for the link to those filters transmissions. That ZWO B filter looks very good. Also I cannot praise enough Solar Astronomy book where I found tons of very valuable informations about solar imaging.

Another question I have on my mind is - if I use good filter as ERF before diagonal, where all that heat go? I think it stays inside the refractor tube and will create some extra turbulence that lower the image quality. I hope its not dangerous for refractor itself. So far I didnt notice any front lens heating while doing imaging session (usually I do 2.5 minutes video and then cover the telescope for 1-3 minutes, then continue with another video).
What do you mean by Baader UV filter? So then Astrodon UV will be also great filter?
And why mentioned Antlia CaK? People here said that it is not a true CaK 3nm, but most likely as a K-line filter actually.


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Re: UV/IR cut filter suggestion for Daystar Quark Calcium H

Post by marktownley »

RomanH wrote: Sat May 21, 2022 8:15 pm The same problem was with Astronomik L3 filter - too much heat and very low contrast and very dark image.
AlleLxFilter_V2.png
AlleLxFilter_V2.png (1.66 MiB) Viewed 384 times
This is because the L3 is cutting off around CaH/CaK wavelengths. I use the L1 (up to 120mm aperture) with no problems at all.


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Re: UV/IR cut filter suggestion for Daystar Quark Calcium H

Post by RomanH »

TareqPhoto: All mentioned filters were used/tested as an internal ERF filter. I dont think Astrodon UV will be good solution as its transmission is between 325 and 385nm. Even Baader has very little transmission in Cak/h line. Antlia CaK was also used as an ERF filter. But I have to say that its also good filter for photosphere - it shows much better contrast than continuum green filter. Sure, Daystar CaH with its 5A filter is a different story ...

marktownley: omg, I saw that graph, but I somehow switched colors and thought that L3 is the widest one, such stupid mistake :?. It makes sense now. So what do you think is better Astronomik UV/IR cut L1 or Astronomik IR cut for the heat reduction or the are the same? I didnt see graphs showing transmission after 1500nm for these filters.


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Re: UV/IR cut filter suggestion for Daystar Quark Calcium H

Post by marktownley »

I think I would go with the UV/IR block Roman, it has more transmission at CaK/CaH than the IR cut filter.
astronomik-ir-block_trans.png
astronomik-ir-block_trans.png (69.19 KiB) Viewed 362 times


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Re: UV/IR cut filter suggestion for Daystar Quark Calcium H

Post by RomanH »

Thanks for answer, I will go with L1 and compare it with IR cut that I already have (always can "double stack" them :D). Not sure if there are two types of Astronomik IR cut (or some older vesion), but on Teleskop-Epress page is different transmission graph (similar to yours, but not identical):

Image


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Re: UV/IR cut filter suggestion for Daystar Quark Calcium H

Post by marktownley »

Hi Roman,

Just remember while double stacking them will reduce out of band transmission, it will also reduce on band transmission, which at CaK wavelengths is valuable. If I was going to double stack it would be with 2 L1 Astronomiks.

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Re: UV/IR cut filter suggestion for Daystar Quark Calcium H

Post by RomanH »

Good point, thanks!


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Re: UV/IR cut filter suggestion for Daystar Quark Calcium H

Post by RomanH »

Sorry, I dont want to double post - I wonder, is there any chance to get 150mm from ERF filter usable also for Ca K/H line, not only for H alpha? I saw somewhere Triband filter on some SCT telescopes, but never the filter only. It would be ideal (anti-heat) solution.


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Re: UV/IR cut filter suggestion for Daystar Quark Calcium H

Post by sywong2000 »

RomanH wrote: Sun May 22, 2022 1:34 pm Sorry, I dont want to double post - I wonder, is there any chance to get 150mm from ERF filter usable also for Ca K/H line, not only for H alpha? I saw somewhere Triband filter on some SCT telescopes, but never the filter only. It would be ideal (anti-heat) solution.
The closest to 150mm aperature would be the Altair 140mm Triband D-ERF. Check it out in the Altair website.


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Re: UV/IR cut filter suggestion for Daystar Quark Calcium H

Post by TareqPhoto »

RomanH wrote: Sun May 22, 2022 7:50 am TareqPhoto: All mentioned filters were used/tested as an internal ERF filter. I dont think Astrodon UV will be good solution as its transmission is between 325 and 385nm. Even Baader has very little transmission in Cak/h line. Antlia CaK was also used as an ERF filter. But I have to say that its also good filter for photosphere - it shows much better contrast than continuum green filter. Sure, Daystar CaH with its 5A filter is a different story ...

marktownley: omg, I saw that graph, but I somehow switched colors and thought that L3 is the widest one, such stupid mistake :?. It makes sense now. So what do you think is better Astronomik UV/IR cut L1 or Astronomik IR cut for the heat reduction or the are the same? I didnt see graphs showing transmission after 1500nm for these filters.
I understand buy wanted to know, it is like you consider that Astrodon UV like Astronomik L3, much narrower UV, and Baader UV is a bit wider so same as Astronomik L1 maybe.

I have Antlia CaK, and it showed something, but i didn't test or use Continuum yet to compare, hopefully soon but with the heat i might do that later in fall/winter instead.


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Re: UV/IR cut filter suggestion for Daystar Quark Calcium H

Post by RomanH »

Thanks for the tip. I saw Altair triband and according to transmission curve its more "dualband" for me as it allows only Ca na Ha line (no green) and also it seems to be somehow transparent in IR. See the transmission:

Image

On the other hand, Baader Triband looks practicaly ideal (but you can't buy filter without SCT telescope glued on it ...) :

Image


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Re: UV/IR cut filter suggestion for Daystar Quark Calcium H

Post by RomanH »

Just a little update. As the Astronomik L3 and IR cut passed too much heat (even two IR cut filters stacked) and I did see no ZWO blue filter in stock (and also everywhere that can be bought is only part of LRGB set), I tried Baader blue filter. It looks that it works OK for my Daystar CaH filter. Heat passed is minimal and CaH CWL isnt affected (only abou 10% drop in brightness). So it loooks like alternative to the ZWO blue filter used as an internal ERF.

So now I use 1.25" Baader Blue filter as an internal ERF for Daystar Quark CaH, 2" Green baader as an internal ERF for TS Green narrowband filter and 2" Baader Red filter as an internal ERF for Daystar Quark Ha filter. All ERF's pass minimum heat (tested on my hand :D) and I had no problems doing 5-10 minutes of video recording with any sign of heating with my 6" refractor. ERF's are at the front of the 2" diagonal.

Hopefully there will be one day ~150mm Triband filter I could use as universal front ERF for my refractor.


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Re: UV/IR cut filter suggestion for Daystar Quark Calcium H

Post by sywong2000 »

Roman

Thank you for the advice - I have ordered a 80mm diameter UV/IR cut KG3 from a local vendor and waiting for delivery. I think it's a front-mounted filter 82mm-threaded for camera uses. I plan to front-mount it at the objective and see how it goes. I have a Optolong LRGB set so I may try out to use the B one mounted just before the 1.25 nose piece to test it. I think the Optolong one is very similar, 90% pass in the near 39x nm range.

Stephen


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Re: UV/IR cut filter suggestion for Daystar Quark Calcium H

Post by RomanH »

That KG3 looks like great solution. I see that also Optolong has good transmission with that blue filter. So bad that they are sold only as kit. But thanks for the tip.


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