1" Grasshopper USB 3.0 NIR Camera

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jmreales57
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1" Grasshopper USB 3.0 NIR Camera

Post by jmreales57 » Tue Oct 14, 2014 9:43 pm

Hello fellow
this is my first intervention in forum
I am interested in the camera point gree 1 "grasshopper 3 USB 3.0 NIR 2048x2048 CMOSIS CMV4000
I've thought about this camera for the whole sun with a team of 1 meter focal f10
now I have a DMK51 with which I am very happy but looking for a camera which Focal me that the entire sun
I read some post that has discouraged me but do not give up and would like to hear your experiences with this camera in H-alpha
thank you very much for your help sorry for my english I'm Spanish

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Re: 1" Grasshopper USB 3.0 NIR Camera

Post by swisswalter » Wed Oct 15, 2014 4:21 am

Hi Jose

welcome to that wonderful site. Have fun with the sun
Only stardust in the wind, some fine and some less fine scopes, filters and adapters as well. Switzerland 47 N, 9 E, in the heart of EUROPE :)

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Re: 1" Grasshopper USB 3.0 NIR Camera

Post by GUS » Wed Oct 15, 2014 5:04 am

Hello and welcome to the site, I'm sure someone on here can help with your questions.

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Re: 1" Grasshopper USB 3.0 NIR Camera

Post by Montana » Wed Oct 15, 2014 9:05 am

A very warm welcome :hamster: :hamster: :hamster:

I would be very concerned that the chip is CMOS, you may suffer all sorts of strange matrix patterns in the image. I think Reniems has this problem with a PGR CMOS he just bought. Have you seen any solar images taken with this camera chip? it is very important!

Alexandra

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Re: 1" Grasshopper USB 3.0 NIR Camera

Post by jmreales57 » Wed Oct 15, 2014 1:23 pm

Hello fellow
thank you very much for your warm welcome
I've seen some images made ​​with this camera, with quite pronounced banding effect, then I saw that by varying the inclination of the plane of the sensor on the optical axis could correct or minimize,
've also seen a pattern of noise on light backgrounds of the images, this effect has also happened to me with my two cameras when I put the gain to a minimum, just up midpoint've corrected my two cameras are CCD one is the DMK51 and the other is a Lumenera infinity 2-1
also I have a DMK72 with microscopic pixel CMOS and in h-alpha produced me acusadisimo banding effect that I could not fix anything, it's a cheap camera and it does not bother me in the moon going great
Anyone know any alternatives to CMOSIS CMV4000 a reasonable price?
thanks for your answers,
a greeting

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Re: 1" Grasshopper USB 3.0 NIR Camera

Post by grimble_cornet » Wed Oct 15, 2014 2:00 pm

I would also worry about a CMOS sensor. Many of them tend to cause problems with Newton's Rings - I have a ZWOASI120 camera which is great for moon and planets but not my choice for solar work as it produces horrible NRs when used with a Barlow for Ha work.
NR.jpeg
Some people have solved the problem by using tilt adaptors and flats but it is a hassle. I also get the pattern noise at high gain with this camera and it does look a bit like the problem Reniems has has with his PG.

I use the PG Grasshopper - GS3-U3-28S5M-C with the CCD sensor Sony ICX674. Several other people on here (Alexandra, Pedro and Swisswalter for example) use the same model and get very good results BUT it is expensive and needs a pretty powerful computer to deal with the high data flow. I get a full solar disc with my 80mm scope but need to do a 2 pane mosaic with my 100mm.
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Re: 1" Grasshopper USB 3.0 NIR Camera

Post by jmreales57 » Wed Oct 15, 2014 6:56 pm

Thank you very much for your comments, are extremely helpful to draw conclusions, what I'm seeing is that the sensor size I like 1" if I have to scrap the CMOS'm going to more than double in price equivalent CCD.
All that madness telling me confirms my experience with the DMK72 is identical to the photo you send me ASI120 banding effect with both CMOS sensor.
me to grace the square sensor for the entire sun although CCD 1" are still too expensive
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Re: 1" Grasshopper USB 3.0 NIR Camera

Post by MapleRidge » Thu Oct 16, 2014 12:06 am

I spoke to the Point Gray rep about the NIR sensor a few months ago and they have not had a lot of experience using it for astronomy purposes, but the few who have tried it did not give it a good review. I am not sure what targets they were imaging, but I was interested in the high QE in the IR for narrow band images in methane (889nm) and other IR Pass filters of the gas giants. For this use I don't need the large array offered by the chip so I am holding off.

I believe they do offer a return option of some sort if the camera does not perform to expectations, but I think I will wait until Jupiter is better placed to experiment.

There are a number of cameras (chips) that work well for solar, but the full disk is a challenge unless you spend a lot of money. another option is to use a telecompressor to get the full disk image (or mosaic), and run the scope at longer focal lengths for hi-resolution fields around the areas of interest.

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Re: 1" Grasshopper USB 3.0 NIR Camera

Post by jmreales57 » Thu Oct 16, 2014 3:49 pm

thank you very much
I am currently doing the entire sun in a mosaic tesserae 2 with a focal length of 600mm with the DMK51 camera and Coronado SolarMax 60 filter, but when I do the big team lunt filter 100 + 100/1000 telescope mosaic 6 the resolution is extraordinary and looking for a great camera to avoid mosaics on that telescope
kind regards

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Re: 1" Grasshopper USB 3.0 NIR Camera

Post by MapleRidge » Thu Oct 16, 2014 5:23 pm

Full disk at 1,000mm focal length without mosaics will take some $$$...the ICX694 chips will give a 42'x32' FOV which will have the disk filling the narrow axis when the solar disk is at its largest apparent diameter. Next up looks to be the ICX814, but even it only gives 34' on the narrow side (smaller pixels and better resolution).

The IMX174 has had good results, and would give you a 38'x34' FOV...only require a 2 frame mosaic to do the full disk, and the price is far more reasonable.

Let me know if you have any questions,
Brian
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Re: 1" Grasshopper USB 3.0 NIR Camera

Post by jmreales57 » Thu Oct 16, 2014 7:08 pm

So had thought of a square sensor, for a circular disc fits better,
shame that the CMOSIS CMV4000 these problems occur, however the banding effect that only chip I've seen in images taken enormous focal relationships, my experience in the past had a solar spectrum of 0.3A operating at f30 and the Lumenera infinity (CCD sensor) to me a rather sharp banding effect, some know her result with this camera working around f10? behavior was probably much more noble and the price of CMOS sensors is more reasonable
thanks for the comments
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Re: 1" Grasshopper USB 3.0 NIR Camera

Post by jmreales57 » Sat Oct 18, 2014 12:49 am

Looking specifications CMOS sensors ZWO see that both ASI120 as DMK72 have a rolling shutter and both produce the same banding pattern newton rings,
I see that the camera based on CMOSIS CMV4000 carries a global shutter, it will be favorable to minimize newton rings?
thank you

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Re: 1" Grasshopper USB 3.0 NIR Camera

Post by MapleRidge » Sat Oct 18, 2014 1:23 am

jm...

What is you name, and where are you located? Nothing to do with the topic...just nice to know a bit more about you :)

I cannot address the rolling vs global shutter, though I have read somewhere that global may be more astronomy friendly, though I cannot remember where I read that...take it as you will. I do not think that we can paint all CMOS based sensor with the same brush...the IMX174's are reportedly good, and I know one fellow here who has had very good results with the VITA1300 based camera. Have to see the performance to know.

I have an Infinity 2-1M camera, and it performed quite well for me (since moved to an ICX674 based camera). I do get some newton rings with this one, but not on a regular basis and seem to be worse with my Daystar quantum filter vs the Lunt etalons...I can usually flat field them out.

As for a square chip, you can always use a square ROI for the full disk...I generally use a 1400x1400 pixel window to do full disk, but have the full 1900 width when needed to cover a larger regions. Not near the options for square arrays...but I don't see a major advantage, but that is just me personal view. The narrow axis of the chip will define you limit in the FOV...extra width in one axis is like a bonus ;)

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Re: 1" Grasshopper USB 3.0 NIR Camera

Post by jmreales57 » Sat Oct 18, 2014 11:21 am

Sorry for my little data on presentation,
my name is Jose Muñoz Reales and I am from Barcelona Spain
http://www.aster.org/ca/ will find pictures of me here in the gallery of the sun
and here too http://www.parhelio.com/ultimag/ultimag.html
I have no idea of English and throw google translator so you may often say things they do not understand, Take it with humor
I've seen pictures of Frederic made ​​with the camera sensor IMX174 are extraordinary but at some point says it has had to act with the inclination of the camera to avoid banding, that I do not like as much as I am looking for a camera that is not me of any problem
what you tell me to take a conventional camera with rectangular sensor and make ROI seems like a good idea but then not if saber resist the temptation to make a mosaic of 2 to have more resolution, moreover having a rectangular sensor is favorable to avoid drift error periodical mount
thanks for your ideas I sure will be very useful
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Re: 1" Grasshopper USB 3.0 NIR Camera

Post by MapleRidge » Mon Oct 20, 2014 11:37 pm

Hi Jose...thanks for introducing yourself.

Choosing a camera is always a challenge...there are many options and we usually have to make some compromises to get most of the features we want. I think that the banding can be present in most any camera (CCD or CMOS) when use don such narrow band filters that we use for Ha and CaK. The 'tilt' option is one way to correct it, and flat fields can also help.

I hope you can find one that meets your needs.

Brian
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Re: 1" Grasshopper USB 3.0 NIR Camera

Post by jmreales57 » Tue Oct 21, 2014 8:26 pm

Thanks for the reply Brian
I do not know exactly which is the technique of "TILT" is there any mechanical element to some kind of gradual adjustment
as the flat is quite feasible when we partial regions of the sun, just blurring and we have a flat, but is rather more complicated when we do the whole sun, so I want to make no mistake, a companion sent a picture made with ZWO ASI120 around the sun with a very noticeable banding effect, DMK72 myself with cmos sensor and also with very small pixel, it gives me an intolerable banding, which can not be icx625 sensor behavior but if it works it would be what I'm looking
a greeting

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Re: 1" Grasshopper USB 3.0 NIR Camera

Post by grimble_cornet » Tue Oct 21, 2014 9:48 pm

This is the kind of Tilt Adapter that I have used on my ZWOASI with some success:

http://www.teleskop-express.de/shop/pro ... photo.html

This website explains how one person managed to get it to work:
http://www.davidcortner.com/slowblog/20130513s.php

Best wishes,

Mike
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Re: 1" Grasshopper USB 3.0 NIR Camera

Post by MapleRidge » Tue Oct 21, 2014 10:45 pm

Mike...

Thanks for posting the adapter link...I was hoping to find it when I got home.

The tilt adjust device would be a lot handier if it were equipped with a C thread on the camera side!!!

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Re: 1" Grasshopper USB 3.0 NIR Camera

Post by jmreales57 » Wed Oct 22, 2014 1:26 pm

Thank you very much mates
think I'll play it safe and more shirk such complications
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Re: 1" Grasshopper USB 3.0 NIR Camera

Post by grimble_cornet » Wed Oct 22, 2014 3:32 pm

Agreed Brian. They do seem to produce a few different models but the T2 fits the ZWO cameras and there are plenty of T2 to pretty much anything adapters out there.
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