Lunt LS80 - Binoviewer Eyepiece Shootout TV Pan 19 vs TV Delite 15 vs Lunt 21-7.2 Zoom

Use this section to discuss "standard" Baader/Coronado/ Lunt SolarView/ Daystar, etc… filters, cameras and scopes. No mods, just questions/ answers and reviews.
Post Reply
Tigger
Ohhhhhh My!
Ohhhhhh My!
Posts: 71
Joined: Tue Mar 23, 2021 8:27 pm
Been thanked: 98 times

Lunt LS80 - Binoviewer Eyepiece Shootout TV Pan 19 vs TV Delite 15 vs Lunt 21-7.2 Zoom

Post by Tigger »

Lunt LS80 – Binoviewer eyepiece shootout TV Pan19 vs TV Delite15 vs Lunt 21-7.2 Zoom[/i]

I have recently been using my Lunt LS80 THa single stack with a Baader Giant Mk V binoviewer fitted with a 1.75x GPC.
In order to get focus with the bino, I had to remove the spacer between the etalon and the focuser unit. The focuser is then attached to the etalon using the same three grub screws. Using the 1.75 GPC, focus is around halfway along the crayford focuser without pulling the Blocking filter out at all. Its almost as if Lunt designed the scope around the MK V because its so perfect.
I use the 1800 blocking filter. There is no vignetting and the disc is beautifully and evenly lit across the whole diameter. There is no ‘sweet spot’ and it’s a joy to observe using the binos which give that natural 3D view. In addition, binos provide more contrast (must be sometime to do with using both eyes together) and I find I can observe for longer because the eyes do not get so tired.
Ok so on to the shootout. Its between the Televue Panoptic 19mm (Mag 52x) vs Televue Delite 15mm (Mag 65x) vs Lunt 21-7.2mm Zoom (Mag upto 136X). I have selected these Eps because I already successfully use the 19 & 15mm with my nighttime scopes. The Lunt Zoom because they offer increased magnification and flexibility as zooms. I was also interested to see if the Lunt coatings would increase contrast for a given similar magnification compared to a night time EP.
I have decided to rate them by Comfort, viewing Proms and viewing Surface Detail.
Lunt with Panoptics
Lunt with Panoptics
Lunt with Panoptics.jpg (908.22 KiB) Viewed 3186 times
19mm Panoptic
Comfort - The most comfortable EP of the 3 to use. Its small and light and tapers away from the eyecup. A perfect shape for binos and to be able to get your nose between the Eps. The Pans are also very forgiving about eye placement without kidney beaning. Score 3 points

Viewing Proms – The Pans give a fantastically bright view. The proms really are very bright and almost have their own fire. Faint proms are easy to see. BUT the pans are only x52 mag, which means that the image does not fill the whole view and there is quite a big gap of blackness from the edge of the sun to the edge of the EP. The image is too small for my tastes. Score 3 points

Viewing Surface Detail – The Pans are again very sharp but they are also very bright and do not offer a decent amount of contrast, probably because the image is too small. Don’t get me wrong, it’s a wonderfully sharp view, just when they are up against the others in this shoot out, they don’t quite cut the mustard. Score 1 point.

15mm Delite
Comfort – These are big EPs for a binoviewer. The eyecup does not taper at all and the diameter is quite large. This is then compounded if the rubber eyecups are raised. That said, I have now found the best compromise. I set the eye relief at its lowest setting and roll up the rubber eyecups. The position is no where near as comfortable as the Pans, but usable. Score 1 point.

Viewing Proms – The reason for compromising with the comfort is the view of the Proms. The sharpness and level of detail that can be seen with the Delites is jaw dropping. A ‘normal’ prom is transformed into a complicated beautiful object in its own right. Individual blobs of plasma can easily be seen along with the complex structure.
Faint proms seem to have their own internal illumination and detail can be seen easily. With reasonable seeing, the spicules at the edge of the sun can easily be seen in lovely detail. I use these to gauge the seeing. The best EP here for viewing proms. Score 5 points

Viewing Surface Detail – The Delites are wonderfully sharp so it is very easy to see sunspots, plage filaments and the lines of magnetic flux around the sunspots and filaments. The contrast is very good and the ‘orange peel’ is easy to see. Solar flares stand out as bright lights against the contrasty background. I thought the surface detail could not be beaten, but read on. Score 4 points.

Lunt 21-7.2 Zoom
Comfort – The Lunt is neither as comfortable as the Pans or as uncomfortable as the Delites. Its in the middle of the two. There are no roll up eyecups. Instead you get a hard rubber adjustable cup that you can adjust the eye relief by twisting up and down. I fine the best position is the lowest setting. Comfort is Ok, score 2 points

Viewing Proms – Because the lunt is a zoom, I was able to set its magnification to be the same as both the Pans (19mm) and Delites (15mm) to do a direct comparison of lens quality and sharpness. It will come as no surprise that the Lunt was not as sharp as either the Pans or the Dels. It was not far behind either of them, but if you are looking for absolute sharpness then fixed length EPs are always going to win out. The Lunt, however, can play its trump card by increasing magnification. I found that between 13.5-10mm was the best compromise between mag and resolution on the proms, but I preferred the Delites at 15mm. Proms were very good, score 3 points

Viewing surface Detail – This is where the Lunt really came into its own. Again I did the direct mag comparison with the other two shooters. The Lunt consistently showed more contrast and it was easier to see more detail. The real joy of this EP was when I cranked up the mag to 10mm (98x) or with good seeing, 7.2mm (136x). The contrast increasing dramatically and a sunspot or filament becomes a object of beauty with lovely detail. I think Lunt must put a coating on their eyepiece to enhance the solar view. I am asking myself the question of whether I need a double stack because the Binos coupled with the high mag zoom give a really constrasty view without the hassle of setting the PT on the second stack and the red glow associated with the internal DS. Surface detail is awesome, score 5

Conclusion
There is no such thing as the perfect eyepiece. I use the 15mm Delites for the Proms and the Lunt Zoom for the Surface because of the contrast at high mags. If I had to choose just one pair? That’s a really difficult question to answer. I think it would be the Lunt Zoom because its so versatile and the high mag surface views are intoxicating, but the sharpness of the Delites is awesome.

Clear skies to you all.
Attachments
Lunt with Zooms.jpg
Lunt with Zooms.jpg (686.19 KiB) Viewed 3186 times
Lunt with delites.jpg
Lunt with delites.jpg (1.15 MiB) Viewed 3186 times


User avatar
marktownley
Librarian
Librarian
Posts: 42131
Joined: Tue Oct 18, 2011 5:27 pm
Location: Brierley Hills, UK
Has thanked: 20240 times
Been thanked: 10115 times
Contact:

Re: Lunt LS80 - Binoviewer Eyepiece Shootout TV Pan 19 vs TV Delite 15 vs Lunt 21-7.2 Zoom

Post by marktownley »

Thanks for the review! :)


Image
http://brierleyhillsolar.blogspot.co.uk/
Solar images, a collection of all the most up to date live solar data on the web, imaging & processing tutorials - please take a look!
RKBerta
Ohhhhhh My!
Ohhhhhh My!
Posts: 84
Joined: Wed Nov 07, 2018 7:08 pm
Location: Michigan USA
Has thanked: 54 times
Been thanked: 73 times

Re: Lunt LS80 - Binoviewer Eyepiece Shootout TV Pan 19 vs TV Delite 15 vs Lunt 21-7.2 Zoom

Post by RKBerta »

Interesting results. I have a 60mm Coronado external etalon (the original US made version) with the 30mm BF and used with a Astro Physics 2" diagonal. That setup is used on either a TV 85 APO or an Officina Stellare 80mm triplet APO. I also have a Lunt 60mm pressure tuned scope with their small BF diagonal. I do have a binoviewer but I only have one set of eyepieces for it that are matched (20mm Burgess).

I did do extensive testing on various eyepieces I have but in particular the Lunt 7.2-21 zoom and the Pentax 8-24mm zoom and the latest BAADER 8-24 zoom V III. All seemed to be better choices than the fixed eyepieces...mainly because you could tweak the view by adjusting the magnification. This goes against common thinking that a fixed EP would always be better. I do have a full set of the Coronado fixed fl eyepieces and their barlow (when still US owned). I also have a full set of Pentax EPs. While all of the zooms seemed to work very well for Ha, the PENTAX zoom always gave better and more detailed views of both prominences and surface chromosphere sharp and contrasty detail. I have several friends with various Ha scopes up to 100mm aperture and in AB testing on their own scopes with my eyepieces they all came up with the same opinion. I am not sure why this would be....maybe more beneficial coatings for solar on the Pentax. This was a strange result as you would think some of these solar specific eyepieces and others with very simple optical designs would have the edge both in detail and contrast.
Between the BAADER and Lunt zoom....it was close for solar although the BAADER was better for DSO and planetary which made sense since the Lunt was designed as a solar EP.

Have any of you had a chance to try a Pentax 8-24 zoom on your Ha solar scopes? Note...Pentax also has another zoom EP but I didn't find it in the same performance level as the 8-24...both for solar as well as deep sky and planetary.


80mm f6 Officina Stellare APO triplet, 152mm Officina Stellare f8 APO triplet, TV 85mm f7 ED APO, 8" SCT HD, 11" SCT.
Astro Physics 900 and 1100 mounts, Ioptron MINI Tower Pro ALT/AZ mount, ZWO AM5 mount,
Lunt 60mm Ha single stack, Coronado 60mm Ha single stack with BF 30
Day Star Quark Chromosphere
Player One Neptune mono with 178 chip, 256mm DDR, tilt plane for solar imaging
ASI 071 Pro cooled color for DS imaging
ATIK 490 EX OSC for DS imaging
SBIG STL 6303e mono with RGBL and Ha, SII, OIII filters for DS imaging
ASI AIR Plus

JPL/NASA Solar System Ambassador
Michigan Scout observatory manager
User avatar
DeepSolar64
Way More Fun to Share It!!
Way More Fun to Share It!!
Posts: 18728
Joined: Thu Sep 05, 2019 12:19 am
Location: Lowndesville S.C.
Has thanked: 17458 times
Been thanked: 16559 times

Re: Lunt LS80 - Binoviewer Eyepiece Shootout TV Pan 19 vs TV Delite 15 vs Lunt 21-7.2 Zoom

Post by DeepSolar64 »

I have an 18.2mm TeleVue DeLite eyepiece. I find that it does very well on both my SMII90 and Celestron 102. It gives 44x on the 90 and 55x on the Celestron. You stated a disadvantage with the 52x of the Panoptics. I certainly have no trouble picking up detail at 52x! I typically run with the SMII90 from 33x up to about 100x in double stack and given good seeing often higher in single stack. I also have a TeleVue 6mm Delos eyepiece which also does very well. 133x in the SMII90 and it is used usually in single stack on the proms and spicule layer in good seeing with good results and 166 power in the white light Celestron which takes abnormally good seeing to utilize.

Two things I have on my get list. A binoviewer and a Lunt zoom eyepiece. Two if I get a binoviewer. Does anyone here know of a zoom eyepiece that is parfocal? One that does not have to be refocused if the magnification is changed. That has always been my biggest turn off concerning zoom eyepieces. The Lunt zoom is not parfocal.

I have doubles for my 28mm Edmund RKE, 25mm Cemax and 10mm Orion MA eyepieces to use when I get a binoviewer.

Thanks for the review, Tigger.

James


Lunt 8x32 SUNoculars
Orion 70mm Solar Telescope
Celestron AstroMaster Alt/Az Mount
Meade Coronado SolarMax II 60 DS
Meade Coronado SolarMax II 90 DS
Meade Coronado AZS Alt/Az Mount
Astro-Tech AT72EDII with Altair solar wedge
Celestron NexStar 102GT with Altair solar wedge
Losmandy AZ8 Alt/Az Mount
Sky-Watcher AZGTI Alt-Az GoTo mount
Cameras: ZWO ASI178MM, PGR Grasshopper, PGR Flea
Lunt, Coronado, TeleVue, Orion and Meade eyepieces

Image Visual Observer
" Way more fun to see it! "
RKBerta
Ohhhhhh My!
Ohhhhhh My!
Posts: 84
Joined: Wed Nov 07, 2018 7:08 pm
Location: Michigan USA
Has thanked: 54 times
Been thanked: 73 times

Re: Lunt LS80 - Binoviewer Eyepiece Shootout TV Pan 19 vs TV Delite 15 vs Lunt 21-7.2 Zoom

Post by RKBerta »

james,
Haven't seen any zoom that is parfocal as you change the magnification....I think that would introduce some incredible demands on design of the zoom!
The zooms I have thus far are Lunt, Pentax 8-24, and latest BAADER zoom version III. My favorite by a log shot is the Pentax for solar. Lunt is second. For none solar....the Pentax again is first and than the BAADER. I find for night time viewing a zoom and a good apo refractor is hard to beat. You can use the zoom to fine tune the background to the object and the seeing. I know....single focus eyepieces are best....I find that isn't necessarily true in all cases ;-) My APO refractors are a TV 85, Officina Stellare 80mm and Officina Stellare 152mm.


80mm f6 Officina Stellare APO triplet, 152mm Officina Stellare f8 APO triplet, TV 85mm f7 ED APO, 8" SCT HD, 11" SCT.
Astro Physics 900 and 1100 mounts, Ioptron MINI Tower Pro ALT/AZ mount, ZWO AM5 mount,
Lunt 60mm Ha single stack, Coronado 60mm Ha single stack with BF 30
Day Star Quark Chromosphere
Player One Neptune mono with 178 chip, 256mm DDR, tilt plane for solar imaging
ASI 071 Pro cooled color for DS imaging
ATIK 490 EX OSC for DS imaging
SBIG STL 6303e mono with RGBL and Ha, SII, OIII filters for DS imaging
ASI AIR Plus

JPL/NASA Solar System Ambassador
Michigan Scout observatory manager
Tigger
Ohhhhhh My!
Ohhhhhh My!
Posts: 71
Joined: Tue Mar 23, 2021 8:27 pm
Been thanked: 98 times

Re: Lunt LS80 - Binoviewer Eyepiece Shootout TV Pan 19 vs TV Delite 15 vs Lunt 21-7.2 Zoom

Post by Tigger »

Hello,

UPDATE - I now have a pair of Pentax XF 8.5mm EPs

I have bought a pair of Pentax XF 8.5mm EPs which give a mag of x115 using my 80mm Lunt with MkV Binos and GPC of x1.75. here is my review of the set up

COMFORT - The Xfs are extremely comfortable to use. The diameter is perfect to fit into my eye sockets. To stop kidney beaning and blackouts, I extend the eye guards to their maximum height. They are more comfortable to use than the Delites and Lunt Zooms. Very similar but not quite as comfortable as the Panoptics. The other minor point is they have a very smooth but grippy texture on them, which makes them a pleasure to handle. A bit weird but adds to the experience of using them.

VIEWING PROMS & SURFACE DETAIL - IF and its a big if, the seeing is good enough, then WOW! The detail that you can see is just incredible. These EPs are possibly the sharpest in my bag of eyepieces. Much sharper than the Lunt zooms at the same mag, although that is to be expected. Definitely on a par with the Delites, if not sharper. proms are dimmer because of the increased mag so you need bright proms to see detail. Surface is much easier because its normally brighter anyway. Again the detail is mind blowing.

CONCLUSION
Not my go to pair of EPs because of the high mag, but if the conditions are good then they go on the scope everytime. Yes they are a luxury addition for this scope, but I picked them up S/C for £140 so I think its money well spent


User avatar
marktownley
Librarian
Librarian
Posts: 42131
Joined: Tue Oct 18, 2011 5:27 pm
Location: Brierley Hills, UK
Has thanked: 20240 times
Been thanked: 10115 times
Contact:

Re: Lunt LS80 - Binoviewer Eyepiece Shootout TV Pan 19 vs TV Delite 15 vs Lunt 21-7.2 Zoom

Post by marktownley »

Thanks for the update!


Image
http://brierleyhillsolar.blogspot.co.uk/
Solar images, a collection of all the most up to date live solar data on the web, imaging & processing tutorials - please take a look!
Highbury Mark
Im an EXPERT!
Im an EXPERT!
Posts: 281
Joined: Tue Apr 28, 2020 4:53 pm
Has thanked: 104 times
Been thanked: 212 times

Re: Lunt LS80 - Binoviewer Eyepiece Shootout TV Pan 19 vs TV Delite 15 vs Lunt 21-7.2 Zoom

Post by Highbury Mark »

Thanks for these great reports. I love experimenting with different eyepieces for solar and it’s always interesting to get others’ views. Agree that the Panoptics are supremely comfortable and effective as solar eyepieces, and the size of the Delites makes them more difficult for binoviewing - though the views are worth the effort. Also interesting about the fixed f/l Pentax XF, as the XF zoom is exceptional for solar.
Finally, does seem as if more LS80 users than any other type of scope are happy to observe in single stack. Many owners have said the same over the years, and not just because of the red glow with the DS. I found single stacked LS60 and LS50 delivered washed out views, with substantially better DS detail. But the SS 80 sounds terrific.


Solarscope SF70DS + TV85
TSA-120, Baader wedge
Tigger
Ohhhhhh My!
Ohhhhhh My!
Posts: 71
Joined: Tue Mar 23, 2021 8:27 pm
Been thanked: 98 times

Re: Lunt LS80 - Binoviewer Eyepiece Shootout TV Pan 19 vs TV Delite 15 vs Lunt 21-7.2 Zoom

Post by Tigger »

Hi Highbury Mark,

The 15mm Delites are my 'go to' EPs offering x65 mag. The view is very bright and I can just about see the whole disc. Although I tend to set up so I see about 1/3 of the disc. For some reason this allows me to focus better on the details. If there is an interesting feature, I will try the XF 8.5, but if the seeing is not good enough then I will use the Lunt Zooms to achieve the perfect balance of mag vs seeing.

Regarding DS, I am chewing this over at the moment, and would appreciate anyones input to help me make a decision. The way I see it is
Plus - Better contrast on surface features and with the binos, hopefully better 3D views
Negatives - Red Glow and fainter proms

Please feel free to offer your opinions


User avatar
BGazing
Ohhhhhh My!
Ohhhhhh My!
Posts: 197
Joined: Mon Apr 11, 2022 6:53 pm
Has thanked: 289 times
Been thanked: 351 times

Re: Lunt LS80 - Binoviewer Eyepiece Shootout TV Pan 19 vs TV Delite 15 vs Lunt 21-7.2 Zoom

Post by BGazing »

Tigger wrote: Wed Jan 19, 2022 2:40 pm Hello,

UPDATE - I now have a pair of Pentax XF 8.5mm EPs

I have bought a pair of Pentax XF 8.5mm EPs which give a mag of x115 using my 80mm Lunt with MkV Binos and GPC of x1.75. here is my review of the set up

COMFORT - The Xfs are extremely comfortable to use. The diameter is perfect to fit into my eye sockets. To stop kidney beaning and blackouts, I extend the eye guards to their maximum height. They are more comfortable to use than the Delites and Lunt Zooms. Very similar but not quite as comfortable as the Panoptics. The other minor point is they have a very smooth but grippy texture on them, which makes them a pleasure to handle. A bit weird but adds to the experience of using them.

VIEWING PROMS & SURFACE DETAIL - IF and its a big if, the seeing is good enough, then WOW! The detail that you can see is just incredible. These EPs are possibly the sharpest in my bag of eyepieces. Much sharper than the Lunt zooms at the same mag, although that is to be expected. Definitely on a par with the Delites, if not sharper. proms are dimmer because of the increased mag so you need bright proms to see detail. Surface is much easier because its normally brighter anyway. Again the detail is mind blowing.

CONCLUSION
Not my go to pair of EPs because of the high mag, but if the conditions are good then they go on the scope everytime. Yes they are a luxury addition for this scope, but I picked them up S/C for £140 so I think its money well spent
Somewhat belated reply to this thread as I am waiting for my Lunt 80 delivery and pondering on bino options. I have Maxbright II and pairs of 32 and 25mm plossls and 18, 12,5 and 10mm orthos. Also a Baader Mark IV zoom, just in case.
I reckon the powers that you are running at are somewhat lower. There have been a number of measurements of the magnification factors for GPCs and, while 1.25 and 2.6 run close to nominal in refractors (catadiopters are different because of the moving mirror), 1.7 GPC is actually 1.5x. So your focal length is around 840mm. Those Pans were then 44x and so forth.
Good to read that 80mm can be pushed that much in bino mode, though. I was expecting that 80x would be the ceiling. Quark is normally at its most comfortable in mono mode around 1mm exit pupil.


Lunt 80MT DS, 533/1600/462
LostInSpace
Ohhhhhh My!
Ohhhhhh My!
Posts: 63
Joined: Tue Apr 11, 2023 4:05 am
Location: Bayview Township, N47/W91
Has thanked: 25 times
Been thanked: 40 times

Re: Lunt LS80 - Binoviewer Eyepiece Shootout TV Pan 19 vs TV Delite 15 vs Lunt 21-7.2 Zoom

Post by LostInSpace »

Thanks for the comparison review. Considering a binoviewer, but the added costs for two EPs of various fl was a limiting factor. Adding a 2nd Lunt zoom would be more cost effective.


Post Reply