Moon 26-02-2021
Moderator: Montana
- rsfoto
- Way More Fun to Share It!!
- Posts: 6306
- Joined: Mon Jun 18, 2012 8:30 pm
- Location: San Luis Potosi, México
- Has thanked: 9723 times
- Been thanked: 5773 times
Moon 26-02-2021
Hi,
Inspired by the last Moon images in colour I gave it a try using a B&W camera with filters.
I see no colour in my image despite having it processed correctly by adjusting all the peaks of the filters onto the same line. That is hot a white balance is done as far as I know.
The Moon was at an Altitude of ~ 31.5° and that explains the slight yellow/red colour, atmospheric refraction.
How do you DSLR users manage to get colour onto the Moon surface ?
Inspired by the last Moon images in colour I gave it a try using a B&W camera with filters.
I see no colour in my image despite having it processed correctly by adjusting all the peaks of the filters onto the same line. That is hot a white balance is done as far as I know.
The Moon was at an Altitude of ~ 31.5° and that explains the slight yellow/red colour, atmospheric refraction.
How do you DSLR users manage to get colour onto the Moon surface ?
regards Rainer
Observatorio Real de 14
San Luis Potosi Mexico
North 22° West 101°
Observatorio Real de 14
San Luis Potosi Mexico
North 22° West 101°
Re: Moon 26-02-2021
Hi Rainer,
It’s been a long time since I assembled an RGB image but by using the 3 filters there will be color data to adjust. Each channel should look different. With my filters, a IR blocker was needed. Color correction was impossible without it. I believe most newer ones have that built in. Anyway, I’d give each color channel a little stretch and watch the effect. Fine tuning can be done later.
I’m sure someone here is more current and experienced than me and will have a quick solution if they see your post.
Looking forward to seeing the final results,
Phil
It’s been a long time since I assembled an RGB image but by using the 3 filters there will be color data to adjust. Each channel should look different. With my filters, a IR blocker was needed. Color correction was impossible without it. I believe most newer ones have that built in. Anyway, I’d give each color channel a little stretch and watch the effect. Fine tuning can be done later.
I’m sure someone here is more current and experienced than me and will have a quick solution if they see your post.
Looking forward to seeing the final results,
Phil
- Carbon60
- Way More Fun to Share It!!
- Posts: 14312
- Joined: Wed Mar 07, 2012 12:33 pm
- Location: Lancashire, UK
- Has thanked: 8558 times
- Been thanked: 8290 times
Re: Moon 26-02-2021
Hi Rainer,
All I do is boost the colour saturation of the assembled colour image, which starts off looking like there are no discernible coloured regions, and repeat a number of times until it ‘looks okay’. I use GIMP or PixInsight, whichever takes my fancy, although the latter seems a bit tricky at times.
Stu.
All I do is boost the colour saturation of the assembled colour image, which starts off looking like there are no discernible coloured regions, and repeat a number of times until it ‘looks okay’. I use GIMP or PixInsight, whichever takes my fancy, although the latter seems a bit tricky at times.
Stu.
H-alpha, WL and Ca II K imaging kit for various image scales.
Fluxgate Magnetometers (1s and 150s Cadence).
Radio meteor detector.
More images at http://www.flickr.com/photos/solarcarbon60/
Fluxgate Magnetometers (1s and 150s Cadence).
Radio meteor detector.
More images at http://www.flickr.com/photos/solarcarbon60/
- Montana
- Librarian
- Posts: 34722
- Joined: Mon Oct 17, 2011 5:25 pm
- Location: Cheshire, UK
- Has thanked: 17974 times
- Been thanked: 8906 times
Re: Moon 26-02-2021
That's a super Moon
If you overlaid all the colour peaks together then surely you would get white (how you do a white balance). I would imagine the colour peaks would have to be slightly offset to get colour, now how you do that I have no idea. This is the problem I get when adjusting the colour of deep sky objects in Deep Sky Stacker, how do you know what colour they are? the blind leading the blind here
Alexandra
If you overlaid all the colour peaks together then surely you would get white (how you do a white balance). I would imagine the colour peaks would have to be slightly offset to get colour, now how you do that I have no idea. This is the problem I get when adjusting the colour of deep sky objects in Deep Sky Stacker, how do you know what colour they are? the blind leading the blind here
Alexandra
- ffellah
- Way More Fun to Share It!!
- Posts: 11303
- Joined: Mon Oct 27, 2014 6:46 pm
- Location: Westport, CT USA
- Has thanked: 9319 times
- Been thanked: 6157 times
- rsfoto
- Way More Fun to Share It!!
- Posts: 6306
- Joined: Mon Jun 18, 2012 8:30 pm
- Location: San Luis Potosi, México
- Has thanked: 9723 times
- Been thanked: 5773 times
Re: Moon 26-02-2021
Hi,
It is cloudy and so time to experiment a bit but before experimenting here an interesting comparison of all the possible combination which PixInsight gives you for stacking RGB filter images using the LRGBCombination tool.
As I am also from time to time a DSO imager I calibrated my RGB filters using a G2V star. Yes, you can calibrate your RGB filters and it is quite easy. Takes a bit of time but then it is good.
Here all three different calibrations in a row.
Below the three ways and how you can adjust it in PixInsight LRGBCombination process.
and below how the colour curves look for each stacking method.
As you see the difference is more or less only in the base size of each colour curve.
Now for calibrating the white balance the only thing I do is move the middle levels up or down and overlap the peaks if evey colour curve, this is how I learned how white balance is done and yes it works in DSO images and so why should it not work in Planet images. Leaving the peaks not overlapped will give you inherently a colour tint depending of how the curve peaks are positioned. You cans ee that in the image with the 3 images of the Moon side by side.
BTW, there is way to register Moon images in PixInsight. I had to do it as the Moon tracking rate is a very difficult one. Even my mount having a Moon tracking rate the moon shifts in the FOV. Taking 20 images for each filter in a series does move the Moon in the FOV. Registering Moon images in PixInsight can be done using a script located in Scripts > Utilities > FFTRegistration
More to follow and still trying to fiddle out how to increase the colour saturation in order to see a Moon in colour
It is cloudy and so time to experiment a bit but before experimenting here an interesting comparison of all the possible combination which PixInsight gives you for stacking RGB filter images using the LRGBCombination tool.
As I am also from time to time a DSO imager I calibrated my RGB filters using a G2V star. Yes, you can calibrate your RGB filters and it is quite easy. Takes a bit of time but then it is good.
Here all three different calibrations in a row.
Below the three ways and how you can adjust it in PixInsight LRGBCombination process.
and below how the colour curves look for each stacking method.
As you see the difference is more or less only in the base size of each colour curve.
Now for calibrating the white balance the only thing I do is move the middle levels up or down and overlap the peaks if evey colour curve, this is how I learned how white balance is done and yes it works in DSO images and so why should it not work in Planet images. Leaving the peaks not overlapped will give you inherently a colour tint depending of how the curve peaks are positioned. You cans ee that in the image with the 3 images of the Moon side by side.
BTW, there is way to register Moon images in PixInsight. I had to do it as the Moon tracking rate is a very difficult one. Even my mount having a Moon tracking rate the moon shifts in the FOV. Taking 20 images for each filter in a series does move the Moon in the FOV. Registering Moon images in PixInsight can be done using a script located in Scripts > Utilities > FFTRegistration
More to follow and still trying to fiddle out how to increase the colour saturation in order to see a Moon in colour
regards Rainer
Observatorio Real de 14
San Luis Potosi Mexico
North 22° West 101°
Observatorio Real de 14
San Luis Potosi Mexico
North 22° West 101°
- rsfoto
- Way More Fun to Share It!!
- Posts: 6306
- Joined: Mon Jun 18, 2012 8:30 pm
- Location: San Luis Potosi, México
- Has thanked: 9723 times
- Been thanked: 5773 times
Re: Moon 26-02-2021
Chapter 2
Whatever I do I do not get the colours DSLR imagers get and I am stumped.
Next step I did in Pixinsight was to add the same Green filtered image in the LRGB combination into the Luminance in order to emulate ? the Bayer matrix " RGGB " of the DSLR chips, which is 50% Green, 25% Red and 25% Blues and nothing
What I noticed was that the PixInsight white balance look different in PS
Below the imported image from Pixinsight and the white balanced image in PS.
If somebody want to play with this pseudo RGGB image here you go and download it from here ~ 25MB in TIF format
https://rainerehlert.com/Luna/Moon_noFi ... 3_test.tif
Whatever I do I do not get the colours DSLR imagers get and I am stumped.
Next step I did in Pixinsight was to add the same Green filtered image in the LRGB combination into the Luminance in order to emulate ? the Bayer matrix " RGGB " of the DSLR chips, which is 50% Green, 25% Red and 25% Blues and nothing
What I noticed was that the PixInsight white balance look different in PS
Below the imported image from Pixinsight and the white balanced image in PS.
If somebody want to play with this pseudo RGGB image here you go and download it from here ~ 25MB in TIF format
https://rainerehlert.com/Luna/Moon_noFi ... 3_test.tif
regards Rainer
Observatorio Real de 14
San Luis Potosi Mexico
North 22° West 101°
Observatorio Real de 14
San Luis Potosi Mexico
North 22° West 101°
Re: Moon 26-02-2021
Hi Rainer,
Would it be possible to get the unweighted, unadjusted red, green, and blue files? I’d like to see what’s going on. JPEGs would be fine.
Phil
Would it be possible to get the unweighted, unadjusted red, green, and blue files? I’d like to see what’s going on. JPEGs would be fine.
Phil
- rsfoto
- Way More Fun to Share It!!
- Posts: 6306
- Joined: Mon Jun 18, 2012 8:30 pm
- Location: San Luis Potosi, México
- Has thanked: 9723 times
- Been thanked: 5773 times
Re: Moon 26-02-2021
Hi Phil,
No Problem. Below the links to the original RGB images. Three of them in PixInsight format *.xisf and three in *.tif format.
Feel free to play with them.
PixInsight format
https://rainerehlert.com/Luna/PI_R_Moon ... teg_r.xisf
https://rainerehlert.com/Luna/PI_G_Moon ... teg_r.xisf
https://rainerehlert.com/Luna/PI_B_Moon ... teg_r.xisf
TIF format
https://rainerehlert.com/Luna/TIF_R_Moo ... nteg_r.tif
https://rainerehlert.com/Luna/TIF_G_Moo ... nteg_r.tif
https://rainerehlert.com/Luna/TIF_B_Moo ... nteg_r.tif
regards Rainer
Observatorio Real de 14
San Luis Potosi Mexico
North 22° West 101°
Observatorio Real de 14
San Luis Potosi Mexico
North 22° West 101°
Re: Moon 26-02-2021
Hi Rainer,
Thanks for the opportunity to work with your images. I found a little color in them.
I used Nebulosity to combine the three images and let it adjust color balance automatically. the rgb image was exported to a image editing program and a hue/saturation adjustment layer was applied to boost the saturation. This layer was duplicated 4 times. Finally some color correction and color temperature were subjectively applied. I should have aligned the individual images before combining but they were close enough to test.
Phil
Thanks for the opportunity to work with your images. I found a little color in them.
I used Nebulosity to combine the three images and let it adjust color balance automatically. the rgb image was exported to a image editing program and a hue/saturation adjustment layer was applied to boost the saturation. This layer was duplicated 4 times. Finally some color correction and color temperature were subjectively applied. I should have aligned the individual images before combining but they were close enough to test.
Phil
- rsfoto
- Way More Fun to Share It!!
- Posts: 6306
- Joined: Mon Jun 18, 2012 8:30 pm
- Location: San Luis Potosi, México
- Has thanked: 9723 times
- Been thanked: 5773 times
Re: Moon 26-02-2021
Astrophil wrote: ↑Thu Mar 04, 2021 5:25 am Hi Rainer,
Thanks for the opportunity to work with your images. I found a little color in them.
I used Nebulosity to combine the three images and let it adjust color balance automatically. the rgb image was exported to a image editing program and a hue/saturation adjustment layer was applied to boost the saturation. This layer was duplicated 4 times. Finally some color correction and color temperature were subjectively applied. I should have aligned the individual images before combining but they were close enough to test.
Phil
Rainer_rgb.jpg
Hi Phil,
You made me laugh ¿ Is there more colour than that on the Moon ?I found a little color in them.
Great. I must be dumb in order not to get colour out of my image
I do not understand this. I have Photoshop but never ever in my life have used that and even less how to make a layer and adjust that... and a hue/saturation adjustment layer was applied to boost the saturation.
Would elaborate a little bit more how to do that ? Best with a few screenshots.
The ending with the small case -r.xisf means they are registered in PixInsight but OK, if you do not have PixInsight it does not help youI should have aligned the individual images before combining but they were close enough to test.
There seems to be a CYAN tint in the image. Visible clearly in the areas of the spread Moondust of crater Tycho and the others.
Thanks
regards Rainer
Observatorio Real de 14
San Luis Potosi Mexico
North 22° West 101°
Observatorio Real de 14
San Luis Potosi Mexico
North 22° West 101°
Re: Moon 26-02-2021
A cyan tint? That was just me and my monitor not your data. Colors would have been better if I could have used the aligned image set, no PixInsight here. Once the RGB images were combined and auto color corrected in Nebulosity, the tif file was opened in PhotoLine (a Photoshop alternative). This is where the saturation was boosted and I mean really boosted. Only on these moon images have I ever increased saturation so much. I’m not surprised you haven’t used it. I hadn’t either until now.
I’m sure photoshop has something like this and is a convenient way to add or subtract color just by turning on or off a layer.
Phil
I’m sure photoshop has something like this and is a convenient way to add or subtract color just by turning on or off a layer.
Phil
- rsfoto
- Way More Fun to Share It!!
- Posts: 6306
- Joined: Mon Jun 18, 2012 8:30 pm
- Location: San Luis Potosi, México
- Has thanked: 9723 times
- Been thanked: 5773 times
Re: Moon 26-02-2021
Thank you very much Philip. It is cloudy and I will try to learn it. Perhaps my 68 year old brain still is good enoughAstrophil wrote: ↑Thu Mar 04, 2021 7:20 pm A cyan tint? That was just me and my monitor not your data. Colors would have been better if I could have used the aligned image set, no PixInsight here. Once the RGB images were combined and auto color corrected in Nebulosity, the tif file was opened in PhotoLine (a Photoshop alternative). This is where the saturation was boosted and I mean really boosted. Only on these moon images have I ever increased saturation so much. I’m not surprised you haven’t used it. I hadn’t either until now.
I’m sure photoshop has something like this and is a convenient way to add or subtract color just by turning on or off a layer.
Phil
Adjustment_layer.jpg
regards Rainer
Observatorio Real de 14
San Luis Potosi Mexico
North 22° West 101°
Observatorio Real de 14
San Luis Potosi Mexico
North 22° West 101°