Solar imaging camera research

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Solar imaging camera research

Post by Montana »

I am doing a little research. Please could you reply to this post and say:
What camera + chip are you using for solar imaging (any wavelength)?
What is its good points?
What is its bad points?
You only need to say a brief sentence and if you use several please do all of them, the good the bad and the ugly.
Many thanks for your help
Alexandra


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Re: Solar imaging camera research

Post by GreatAttractor »

Camera: Point Grey Chameleon 3 CM3-U3-13S2M-CS (sensor: ICX445). Used for Hα and white light.

Good points:
– image quality
– frame rate
– USB 3.0/2.0 connectivity (full speed in 8-bit mode on USB 2.0)
– runs on Windows and Linux via IIDC and FlyCapture API

Bad points:
– every second pixel line is darker when shutter < 0.3 ms, but with my setups I use 0.4-11 ms


My software:
Stackistry — an open-source cross-platform image stacker
ImPPG — stack post-processing and animation alignment
My images

SW Mak-Cass 127, ATM Hα scopes (90 mm, 200 mm), Lunt LS50THa, ATM SSM, ATM Newt 300/1500 mm, PGR Chameleon 3 mono (ICX445)
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Re: Solar imaging camera research

Post by DJD »

Canon 550D/T2i
Good points :
Very simple to use,
Convenience for a quick session ( single self contained box ),
large sensor for full disk one-shots
video crop mode adequate for 640x480
Bad points :
Colour sensor, hence reduced resolution for monochrome imaging
Slightly heavy
sensor a long way into the body


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Re: Solar imaging camera research

Post by gabrieli »

PGR 2/3" Grasshopper3 - solar, lunar

Good
- decent frame rate,
- nice resolution,
- no Newton's rings

Bad
- sensor is not really 2/3" diagonally, it's 2/3 x 2/3 = 4/9" using an archaic way of indicating sensor sizes I posted some time ago
- dark bars along edge of long dimensions

PGR 1" Grasshopper3 - solar, lunar,

Good
- has wonderful coverage allowing fewer panes for mosaics,
- no Newton's rings

Bad
- slow frame rate and, again, not really a 1" diagonal sensor, it's 2/3x 1" = 2/3".
- sometimes, a bright bar appears along the top long dimension

I based purchasing a B3400 assuming that it had a 1" diagonal sensor

ZWO174

mainly lunar imaging,

Good
- high frame rates,
-low price compared to other 174 based cameras

- Newton's rings(easily corrected),
- very stiff cord,
- no gamma control in 16 bit recording, low contrast, misleading sensor size problem in common with other cameras
-hard to relate gain and gamma values to PGR system


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Re: Solar imaging camera research

Post by OTangen »

Hallo England, this is the vote from the 60N 10E jury:

Camera: Point Grey Grasshopper3
Resolution 1920 x 1440
Frame Rate 26 FPS
Megapixels 2.8 MP
Chroma Mono
Sensor Name Sony ICX674
Sensor Type CCD
Readout Method Global shutter
Sensor Format 2/3"
Pixel Size 4.54 µm
ADC 14 bits

Used for WL (moon) and Ha.

+ points: Fairly fast, never Newton rings in any combination with barlows or Powermates. Great for mosaics.
Very flat. No dirt on chip even after 6 months of use.
Faster download rate when selecting smaller area. Covers almost the whole disk of the sun with a 100mm Lunt.

- points: Could always be faster

Oivind Tangen
60N 10E


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Re: Solar imaging camera research

Post by cshahar »

DMK41

Good Points:
Reliable
Easy to Use
Solid build
Reasonably priced (and easily found in used market)

Bad Points:
Newton Rings with Powermate (Corrected for it)
Frame rate a little slow
Dust magnet


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Re: Solar imaging camera research

Post by eroel »

Alexandra:
TIS DMK 21 Chip SonyXX098AL- Too small and noisy.
TIS DMK 21 Chip ICL618- Good QE but tiny chip.
TIS DMK 31 Chip ICX204AL-Very good and a nice workhorse.
TIS DMK 41 Chip ICX205AL- Very good and a nice workhorse.
Point Grey Chameleon Chip ICX445- Very nice and reliable camera.
ASI 174 Chip IMX174- Very nice and smooth camera.
LU075M Chip Sony Super HAD- Beautiful working camera, low noise but tiny chip.
SKYnix 2-2 Chip Sony ICX274- Best camera I have ever had, low noise, clean and a wonderful workhorse.
SKYris 132 Chip Aptina ARO 132- Nice camera.
SKYris 618M Chip ICX618- Tiny chip.
QHY-5-II Chip MI9M001.- A little noisy camera but good for Moon and guiding.

Have some other older cameras, but not up to par with the ones detailed.
I mostly use Lucam Recorder to control my TIS and Lumenera cameras, it is a wonderful software to work with.
For the rest, I use FireCapture, ICcap, Genika, FlyCap, but I am still not too familiar with those softwares.
I have used them all for solar imaging in H-alpha, CaK and white light, as also for lunar and planetary imaging.
Overall, the SKYnix 2-2 has given me lots of satisfaction, very low noise, very good electronics and a very rugged piece of equipment, though it just goes up to 15 fps full frame.
As for Newton rings, well I have never had problems dealing with them, just when using certain combinations of Barlows, and Powermates, so I avoid those.
It is very hard to tell which one is better or worse than the other, because normally you use combinations that work and satisfy your needs, so each camera has its own niche. (well, for my needs)
Best regards,
Eric.


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Re: Solar imaging camera research

Post by Davidm »

Point Grey Grasshopper 3 ICX674 USB3 - 26 fps @ 1920 x 1440. The best point for me is the lack of newtons rings in single stack mode (the main reason I chose this one), as well as a fairly large chip (much bigger and it it might be wasted on my scope with the sweet spot size), and a reasonably good framerate. Downside is the high cost, and a narrow brighter band that is evident along the edge of one side of the image. I understand the brighter band is due to the cover glass (can anyone confirm?) and can be removed with a flat, but it seems like a poor design for it be there at all.

Lumenera Skynyx 2-1M - 15 fps @ 1392 x 1040. Not used much now I have the Grasshopper 3, but this was a really good camera. Best point for me was high sensitivity, low noise (excellent for the time it was made anyway). I also think the Lucam recording software was excellent, mainly because I could increase the on-screen contrast much more than I can with the Grasshopper 3 software, which made it easier for tuning/focussing. If I could use the Lucam software with the Grasshopper 3, I would be set. The downside on the camera is the tendency for newtons rings, which become more prominent as magnifcation increases in my scope, and the camera developed a bit of an uneven background (seen in flats mainly). However the camera is getting on a bit, so perhaps that is being a bit critical of the old-timer!

The main thing I think I would look for in my next camera (not for a while yet) would be a new generation of chip with significantly higher sensitivity in H-a to allow for faster captures in high-resolution doublestack mode (i.e. dim images). A bigger chip or faster general framerate is not of much interest to me.


Lunt LS152T (DSII and CaK module), Coronado Helios 1, Grasshopper 3 2/3" CCD
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Re: Solar imaging camera research

Post by marktownley »

I'm using the PGR Blackfly GigE IMX249 camera - 1920x1200, 38fps, 5.86um pixels, It's a CMOS chip. I like it, great for longer focal lengths with it's large pixels. Subtle banding artefacts in Ha not shifted by tiling, but removed by flats, superb in CaK wavelengths. With a new lower price of £389 (£369 in USB3) I think is the new 'bargain' solar camera and should be the entry level starting point reference.


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Re: Solar imaging camera research

Post by Valery »

PGR Flea 3 GigE mono with ICX445 chip

Positive:

1. Very low read out noise
2. Very reliable under native recording software
3. optimal pixel size for smaller telescopes (3,75micron)
4. Very sensitive in Ha and CaK and even higher in a green light

Nigative

1. When very narrow band ( DS) - strong odd unevenness of the brightness due to poor optical window of this camera.
This is because the glass of the window is no annealed and has high stress birefringence which then visible
with narrow filters. However when the band is very narrow, but used with 0,5x reducer, the effects is not so much disturbing.

2. Seldom concocts at 8 bit with FireCapture. Unstable fps.

Not recommended due to these negative sides.


Valery


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Re: Solar imaging camera research

Post by Derek Klepp »

Ok my camera is an old analogue Gstarex 1. A mintron type video camera with a Sony ICX 249AL 1/2"chip pixel size 8.6um x8.3um at 795x596 pixels.
I need a frame grabber to get data and these are hard to get to utilise the whole chip size .Max speed capture 25fps .Hopefully the data sheet is attached.
Bonuses -I can run up to 20m of video chord as long as I have power at the scope .
This camera does everything lunar deep sky and live video which is how I started out in viewing.I have three of these as they are no longer available with the occulting function which basically is a function to black out the disc.BUT by raising shutter speed you can bring back the detail so you can actually get disc and limb action in one take.
It cost$600 and was worth every cent.The newer version is better for deep space as it has Longer integrating time but no occulting function.
I am very comfortable with this camera and hesitate to upgrade if you can call it that.Although not the best camera it is a jack of all trades.
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Re: Solar imaging camera research

Post by Montana »

Thanks everyone, this is exactly what I need, fantastic set of info :bow2

Alexandra


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Re: Solar imaging camera research

Post by MapleRidge »

Alexandra...

The first camera I sued for any serious solar work was the Lumenera Infinity 2-1M with the ICX205 chip...described earlier here. Old technology by excellent in its day.

The PGR Flea2G with the ICX445 chip was a fantastic camera where small pixels rule (short focal lengths). Drawback was the small array, but the plus was a good frame rate...30fps I think at max full frame.

Overall favorite is the Grasshopper Express (firewire) with the ICX674 chip...excellent QE, medium sized array, good frame rate (26fps full frame max).

Recent work with IMX174 chip in the ZWO line is an excellent performer, high frame rate with short exposures (though drops into the 10-30 fps rate with longer exposures on full frame. Biggest drawback to me is it seems a bit short on dynamic range, but it is manageable.

I am looking at the ICX808 chip...2048x2048 array with 3.1u pixels...full disk imaging and minimal need for barlows on the longer focal lengths (2x vs 3x-4x to get same resolution on the chip). PGR offers this in the Grasshopper 3 platform...drawback is slower frame rate, but I am not obsessed with this.

Brian


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Re: Solar imaging camera research

Post by christian viladrich »

Alexandra :
Let's start with the more recent ones :
- Basler 1920-155 with IMX 174 : currently best camera for solar white light imaging, best S/N (7.5 bits) and best dynamic (12.2 bits), slight fringes in Ha.
- IDS 3370 (an Lumenera LT425) with CMOSIS400 : currently the best camera in 2000 x 2000 pixels size, S/B = 6.9 bits, dynamic = 10.0 bits, very limited fringes in Ha
- AVT 674 and Lumenera with ICX674: excellent sensor, S/B = 6.8 bits, dynamic = 10.5 bits, now a little bit slow (30 fps) compared to the previous cameras;
- Skynyx 2.1 M : excellent sensor, but slow compared to the prevois (15 fps).
- Basler 1300 : low dynamic and low S/N.
- Lumenera LW11059M : with 24 x 36 sensor, nice very large sensor, but only 1 frame / 3 s
Hope this helps


Christian Viladrich
Co-author of "Planetary Astronomy"
http://planetary-astronomy.com/
Editor of "Solar Astronomy"
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Re: Solar imaging camera research

Post by Carbon60 »

Hi Alexandra,

Basler acA1920-155um with Sony IMX174 sensor.
Pros:
Good price
Fast frame rate
Low noise
High dynamic range (proms and disk together)
Sensible pixel size
Manageable image file size (5Gb)
Small and lightweight

Cons:
Requires permanent 1.5x Barlow on my Lunt60THa to get full-frame FD
Occasional NRs

See Basler News 'Success Stories' for more info.

Stu


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Re: Solar imaging camera research

Post by Gordon Ewen »

Alexandra, I have 3 cameras I use for solar imaging:

ZWO ASI120MM-S
Good points - good sensitivity
- 3.75 micron pixels
- good frame rate, 70 fps
- price
Not so good - 1/3" chip is a bit small
- At very low exposure time and very low gain (eg. at f6 with the Lunt 152) can see fixed pattern noise in the final images.

ZWO ASI174MM-S
Good points - good sensitivity
- large chip, 1/1.2"
- 5.6 micron pixels good for longer focal length work
- very fast frame rates, 128 fps at full chip use
Not so good - nothing springs to mind!

FL3-U3-32S2M-CS
Good points - 2.5 micron pixels are great for short focal lengths
- Small! but beautifully engineered product
- good frame rate, ~50 fps
Not so good - lower sensitivity than ZWO's; not a problem at short focal lengths as seeing is less critical than at long fl so moderate exposure times are tolerable.

REgards
Gordon

Not so good - less sensitive than ZWO's I have:but imaging at short focal lengths is not very seeing critical so exposure times are still fine.


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Re: Solar imaging camera research

Post by pedro »

I have a few cameras that I use for solar imaging

http://re.apaaweb.com/ccd_cameras.html

DMK41/DMK51 - great for HR and FD imaging but slow (15 and 12 images/s). Low noise and good all purpose cameras

ZWO ASI120MM- Good for guiding but noisy for solar or lunar imaging

ZWO ASI174MM - Great camera for all types of imaging. Produces newton rings in some scopes (H-alpha) (CMOS)

CHAMALEON CMLN-13S2M-CS - Good for HR work

GRASSHOPPER 3 2.8 MP MONO (GS3-U3-28S5M-C) - My best solar camera hands down

GRASSHOPPER 3 4.1 MP Mono USB3 Vision (CMOSIS CMV4000-3E5) - Great for FD imaging

BLACKFLY 2.3 MP Mono GigE PoE (BFLY-PGE-23S6M-C) - Nice camera, not as good as the ASI174MM


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Re: Solar imaging camera research

Post by JacobRedshift »

Since this list is a few years old, are their newer/better options for imaging the sun in hydrogen alpha?

I’ll describe the setup I’m using, and I would love to hear about the best choices for a ccd camera.

I have a full aperture Baader cool dielectric ERF (155mm) on the front of a celestron 6” achromat which is F8. I use a 4x powermate to get to f32 before a Daystar quantum se .5 angstrom filter. Then I have a celestron 6.3 reducer before a diagonal and eyepiece.

I received some advice that I want the pixel size of the ccd to be 3.2 or smaller with my setup in order to achieve ideal resolution. The ZWO asi290 and asi178 does this, but these are very small chips. I’d probably have to shoot at least a dozen frames to get a full disk mosaic. I don’t “need” a full disk in one image, but a mosaic of 2 frames would be nice, or maybe 4 frames.
Currently, I’m considering FLIR chameleon 3 50s5m
https://www.flir.com/products/chameleon ... 3-50S5M-CS

I’d like to be able to use the camera and a laptop (or other digital display) for visually displaying what’s in the eyepiece for solar outreach events, as well, but I think whichever camera does the best job for imaging will suffice for this, too.

Thanks all!!!


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Re: Solar imaging camera research

Post by marktownley »

Personally running at Daystar focal ratios I think i'd go for an IMX174 chipped camera with 5.86um pixels...


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Re: Solar imaging camera research

Post by Montana »

I would agree with Mark, at f32 you will need a big pixel size chip. The best one that most of us use is the IMX174 chip whether it be in the Grasshopper 3 / Basler Ace or ZWO version is the way to go. Fantastic frame rate too!

Alexandra


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Re: Solar imaging camera research

Post by pedro »

I also agree with Mark & Alexandra, the ZWO ASI174MM is the way to go. You will have to use a tilt adjuster to remove the newton rings though


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Re: Solar imaging camera research

Post by ffellah »

Hi Alexandra: here is what i use

- ZWO ASI174MM camera with the Sony 174 chip, 2.35Mp UBS3. 1936x1216 Positive: large pixels, very good frame rate, excellent at long focal lengths. Negative: I wish it would be higher resolution. Reasonably priced compared to same chip camera by PGR. On sale now here in the US for $539.

- PGR Flea 3 3.2Mp USB3 - Sony IMX036 - Mono -2080x1552 - This has been and continues to be a great camera for me in conjunction with the Solarmax 90. Frame rate is 60/second. Positive: good resolution, works very well with short focal lengths, a real workhorse. Negative: small 2.5 pixels, so does not work with longer focal lengths. I believe the price is about $575 in the US at this time.

- ZWO ASI120 MM-S - 1.2Mp - AR0130CS 1/3″ sensor 1280x960 mono - pixel size is 3.75 - USB3 - I use this as a back up camera. Positive: low price, about $160 at this time, on sale, here in the US. Frame rate is about 30 with my computer at full resolution. Medium pixel size 3.75, so somehow flexible. Negative: small sensor. I got a good image of a very faint flare recently with this camera.

Franco


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Re: Solar imaging camera research

Post by rsfoto »

Montana wrote: Tue Sep 22, 2015 9:44 am I am doing a little research. Please could you reply to this post and say:
What camera + chip are you using for solar imaging (any wavelength)?
What is its good points?
What is its bad points?
You only need to say a brief sentence and if you use several please do all of them, the good the bad and the ugly.
Many thanks for your help
Alexandra
Hi Alexandra,

A little bit late.

Lumenera Infinity 2-2M 1616 x 1216 pixels (Sony ICX274 2.0 Megapixal CCD, color or mono- chrome, progressive scan)

Good points ?
None come to my mind

Bad points ?
For nowadays standards slow at max resolution only 12 frames persecond
Very expensive compared to the know producers. Today that camera costs US $ 3,300.00
https://www.lumenera.com/infinity2-2.html

But and this is a big but the existing imaging acquire software packages for me are a bad point and why ?

So far none, as far as I know, has the feature of what the Lucam Recorder software made by Astrofactum has and that is the ability to apply a false colour mask while imaging.

What is a false colour mask ? I can tweak in real time while streaming 8-bit avi the colours and that is how I get the grey background of the Sun floating in Space and so I get with one single shot the prominences and do not need to make two different exposure and then overlay the Sun surface shot over the Promince shot.

That is the only reason why I still image with that very old camera as Lucam Recorder does not work with other cameras then Lumenera or the cameras from TheImagingSource www.https://www.astronomycameras.com/

regards Rainer


regards Rainer

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Re: Solar imaging camera research

Post by eroel »

Alexandra:
I do also have the ZWO ASI 174 and the 290MM cameras, but for the Sun I sill use the SKYnyx 2-2, a clean sharp camera and a wonderful work horse together with Lucam-Recorder software.
Best wishes for the X´mas holidays.
Eric.


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Re: Solar imaging camera research

Post by MalVeauX »

Montana wrote: Tue Sep 22, 2015 9:44 am I am doing a little research. Please could you reply to this post and say:
What camera + chip are you using for solar imaging (any wavelength)?
What is its good points?
What is its bad points?
You only need to say a brief sentence and if you use several please do all of them, the good the bad and the ugly.
Many thanks for your help
Alexandra
I've used the IMX178 sensor, IMX174 sensor, 290MM sensor, etc for solar. I'm currently using the 290MM sensor for everything. All wavelengths.

ZWO ASi290MM is what I'm using currently for full disc solar, lunar and high res solar, lunar. I've used the IMX178 sensor in the past, twice, and the IMX174 (still have it). But, frankly, the 290MM is superior so far in my opinion. It's sensitive to red/IR wavelengths so its great for HA. The shutter is not a problem at all and images totally great at any exposure time with blazing fast FPS. It's a tiny sensor, but that's ok for high res and it's ideal around F10 which is common for most of our high res instruments and PST mods, etc. The ASI290MM and ASI174MM achieve the same image scale with my setups, at ideal sampling in HA. The difference? Transmission is higher on the ASI290MM train because it's more sensitive and it's F10, so the result is I can image high res at 2~3ms with zero gain, while my IMX174 requires longer exposure time and more gain to achieve the same thing.

As for 393nm, 430nm, 610nm, 656nm and 742nm, the ASI290MM handles all of them fine. I've posted my CaK, Gband and HA around here. All of it has been from the ASI290MM so far. I've pretty much retired my ASI174MM for the same job because it's more simple. No need to be at F20~F40 with an IMX174 sensor with 5.86um pixels for sampling purposes. Instead, I'm at F10 to F18 tops with the ASI290MM for the full wavelength series and transmission is higher and it's a fast 100+ FPS camera with small, but sensitive, 2.9um pixels.

Very best,


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