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Ha HiRes from St Véran

Posted: Tue Aug 29, 2017 5:45 pm
by fjabet
Hello all, with Christian and some other, we are imaging from St Véran Observatory in the french Alps.

I'm using a HaT8 and HaT11 with a SS .3A.
The seeing is tremendous...
I have animation, but the bandwidth is scarce here, I'll post them when I'll get back home.


With the 8" :

Image

Image

Image

Image

With the 11" :

Image
Image
Image

Re: Ha HiRes from St Véran

Posted: Tue Aug 29, 2017 5:50 pm
by ffellah
These are fantastic, Frederic ! What were the seeing numbers on the SSM when you imaged these ?

Franco

Re: Ha HiRes from St Véran

Posted: Tue Aug 29, 2017 7:24 pm
by fjabet
Mostly below .3"

Re: Ha HiRes from St Véran

Posted: Tue Aug 29, 2017 7:27 pm
by fjabet
Some heavy stuff.
Image

Re: Ha HiRes from St Véran

Posted: Tue Aug 29, 2017 8:11 pm
by Carbon60
A beautiful place to observe and image the Sun. Fabulous images Frederic.

Stu.

Re: Ha HiRes from St Véran

Posted: Wed Aug 30, 2017 5:53 pm
by Valery
fjabet wrote:
Tue Aug 29, 2017 7:24 pm
Mostly below .3"
If the sun image wasn't absolutely steady, unmoving then this may be incorrect. If even a slightest movement were seen, that this can mean only one: the SSM is a bit too optimistically calibrated.

I personally do not believe that such a seeing is possible in a day time anywhere in the world. Especially for most of the time.


Valery

Re: Ha HiRes from St Véran

Posted: Wed Aug 30, 2017 7:50 pm
by fjabet
I just provided the JPL with several SSM, and we worked together on them for deliver the r0 as well, so I guess it's good enough for Caltech/NASA.

Re: Ha HiRes from St Véran

Posted: Wed Aug 30, 2017 8:25 pm
by LauraMS
HI Frédéric,

fantastic - the solar surface and the site. Didn't know about St Véran when you recently mentioned it but I think it must be great to be at such a great place with great people and such a lot going on on the sun as these days with two new active regions just coming into view.

Best wishes to all of you and have a good time - great seeing be with you :lol:

Laura

Re: Ha HiRes from St Véran

Posted: Wed Aug 30, 2017 9:02 pm
by bart1805
It looks a bit like a solar imagers heaven. Happy hunting over there and please show us more of those beautiful pictures!
Bart.

Re: Ha HiRes from St Véran

Posted: Thu Aug 31, 2017 12:51 am
by MapleRidge
Superb images Frederic :bow

Brian

Re: Ha HiRes from St Véran

Posted: Thu Aug 31, 2017 6:31 am
by Valery
fjabet wrote:
Wed Aug 30, 2017 7:50 pm
I just provided the JPL with several SSM, and we worked together on them for deliver the r0 as well, so I guess it's good enough for Caltech/NASA.
This fact of JPL/NASA interest does not necessary mean that the presesnt version of the SSM works absolutely correctly. In my understanding it returns _relative_ seeing values. No more. It can distinguish very good seeing from good seeing, good seeing from so so seeing, so so seeing from poor seeing and poor seeing from very poor seeing. But such a returns like 0,3" are not serious, as well as , say, 1,25". Such returns directly state that this SSM as sensitive as 0,01". Looks unrealistic.

Re: Ha HiRes from St Véran

Posted: Thu Aug 31, 2017 8:01 am
by fjabet
Most solar seeing monitor, beside limb analysis, use the scintillation work of Beckers and Seykora. And especially SHABARs.
r0 are in line with expected results, and JPL guys are not shocked by those values.
We speak of instant seeing, not long exposure seeing.
By night time, planetary amateurs can reach very small details, well below the arc sec.
Same thing in solar imaging, look are Christian images.

Re: Ha HiRes from St Véran

Posted: Thu Aug 31, 2017 8:19 am
by Derek Klepp
Great place great setups superb images .Thanks Frederic.

Re: Ha HiRes from St Véran

Posted: Thu Aug 31, 2017 9:03 am
by Valery
fjabet wrote:
Thu Aug 31, 2017 8:01 am
Most solar seeing monitor, beside limb analysis, use the scintillation work of Beckers and Seykora. And especially SHABARs.
r0 are in line with expected results, and JPL guys are not shocked by those values.
We speak of instant seeing, not long exposure seeing.
By night time, planetary amateurs can reach very small details, well below the arc sec.
Same thing in solar imaging, look are Christian images.
Frederic,

You are trying to change the subject of this discussion. JPL guys have nothing to do with your SSM. Shocked they are or not has nothing to do with the SSM unrealistic return values. They are: 1) incorrect 2) unrealistic. This what I state looking at SSM return values and know enough about atmospheric seeing.
I am well aware about what kind of resolution amateurs reach during night observing, I well aware about seeing statistic during day time.
I believe that the SSM showed 0,3" most of the time at that monting top. But I state that this value does not reflects the real seeing at that place that day(s).
There are NO places on the surface of the Earth where the day time seeing can be 0,3", especially most of the time!
You can easily prove that the 0,3" was there and was most of time by placing here or at other place (youtube etc) several movies through 11" HaT where we can see that the sun images are as steady as a whater in a glass. If not, then it will be better to calibrate the SSM correctly to achieve the point when it will returns more realistic seeing values. For now this SSM can be used as the seeing indicator like seeing is "very good", "good", "average", "poor" and "very poor".

BTW. I can show the images in H-a same good as Christian did and I know what were the seeing I took them at - not even close to 0,3". With 0,3" seeing most of the time(!) we do not need any lucky imaging technique. Absolutely.

Re: Ha HiRes from St Véran

Posted: Thu Aug 31, 2017 10:24 am
by fjabet
Well, Christian did stacked only 7 images on his image actually.
Now believe what you want, this is not the subject of the thread.

Re: Ha HiRes from St Véran

Posted: Thu Aug 31, 2017 11:18 am
by robert
Superb shots. I always think seeing is my limiting factor but it looks like a very tough place to live. I won't try to move there. :roll: Good to see the location, thanks.
Robert

Re: Ha HiRes from St Véran

Posted: Thu Aug 31, 2017 12:11 pm
by Valery
fjabet wrote:
Thu Aug 31, 2017 10:24 am
1. Well, Christian did stacked only 7 images on his image actually.

Now believe what you want, this is not the subject of the thread.
1. This is not a real argument.

2. Now it is clear, that your SSM returns a way too optimistic seeing values and you can prove this statment wrong.

Again there are NO places on the Earth with daytime seeing on the level 0,3". If the SSM shows such a value (even below it) for a long time, this does mean only one: SSM is not correctly calibrated.

Re: Ha HiRes from St Véran

Posted: Thu Aug 31, 2017 3:15 pm
by Tcb37
Awesome shots! Can't wait to see the animations.
Tom

Re: Ha HiRes from St Véran

Posted: Thu Aug 31, 2017 4:05 pm
by pedro
fantastic shots Frederic, awesome resolution, I have to join you guys one of these days

Re: Ha HiRes from St Véran

Posted: Thu Aug 31, 2017 4:25 pm
by fjabet
Thanks you guys !

@Valery : there is no calibration required in the SSM. Actually it's a pure transcription of Seykora and Beckers papers that was validated by the scientific community and the JPL has no issue with them, nor NASA that bought other units from one of my distributors.
Nor the professional observatory using it.
But maybe you know more.

Re: Ha HiRes from St Véran

Posted: Thu Aug 31, 2017 5:48 pm
by Valery
fjabet wrote:
Thu Aug 31, 2017 4:25 pm
Thanks you guys !

@Valery : there is no calibration required in the SSM. Actually it's a pure transcription of Seykora and Beckers papers that was validated by the scientific community and the JPL has no issue with them, nor NASA that bought other units from one of my distributors.
Nor the professional observatory using it.
But maybe you know more.
Frederic,

I read that Seykora and Baker article. I am sure your SSM does work as there is a clear dependance between the seeing quality and SSM's return values.
Many scientists were mistaken even Einshtein. The same can be with Seykora and Baker.
Is there no way to adjust the SSM in such a way that it's return values will better correspond to the real seeing values? This must be a simple procedure electronically, but difficult on the practice.
At least I know the method of calibration. You can do this without additional equipment. At your home in a day of good seeing.