Any suggestion for a DIY Quark active cooler?

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Any suggestion for a DIY Quark active cooler?

Post by minhlead »

My Quark overheats under the scorching tropical Sun. Here in VN the temperature under direct sunlight can reach up to 50* Celsius at the peak of summer. And it seems the Quark can overheats and refuses to tune when the ambient passes 38*C which is pretty much a given here (the indicator light never turns green, especially if I put the knob on the cold side (counterclockwise) .
If I put the Quark under airflow of a pedestal fan then it slowly cool down and the light turn green after a few minutes. But a pedestal fan is cumbersome and the airflow vibrates the optical train, if I want to capture I have to turn off the fan.
So I figure maybe some kind of passive cooling would work. First a wet napkin and wrap the quark in aluminium foil as some kind of heat shield works for a while until the water on the napkin heats up and the Quark overheats again.
Second try is put a cooling fan on the Quark as a kind of active cooling. If it does work I'll make a 3D printed fan mount for a more permanent solution. The only concern is vibration of the fan. There are still some very small vibration caused by the fan. Do not know if it'll have any effect on the optical train. If it does, I'll get a dimmer and turn down the fan speed see if it works.
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If the fan doesn't work I'll find a way to put a Peltier TEC on this thing.
Any one here have experience dealing with overheating Quarks? Any suggestion would be welcomed.


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Re: Any suggestion for a DIY Quark active cooler?

Post by minhlead »

Hello? Anyone?


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Re: Any suggestion for a DIY Quark active cooler?

Post by EGRAY_OBSERVATORY »

Sorry to say Minh, I've just spent over an hour trying to advise you for this problem, but once again the post has not registered in to your post this time,

So now very briefly the attached image might assist as a Sombrero Hat type shade with the necessary holes for both the scope and also around the camera made of paper of cardboard for starters to see the effects.

I mean, why are umbrellas used on hot beaches as well as Mexican head shades ??? :oops:

Also an Infra-Red non-contact Thermometers as those sold on Amazon, but make sure they cover the ranges you are likely to require , as the COVID types have a very limited temperature range. Not expensive.

I trust these couple of ideas, might assist you and sometime-soon when I get eventually to bed, I no doubt will come-up with more suggestions.

Best Wishes
Terry
and good morning - your time !! :movie
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Re: Any suggestion for a DIY Quark active cooler?

Post by minhlead »

EGRAY_OBSERVATORY wrote: Thu May 13, 2021 2:43 am Sorry to say Minh, I've just spent over an hour trying to advise you for this problem, but once again the post has not registered in to your post this time,

So now very briefly the attached image might assist as a Sombrero Hat type shade with the necessary holes for both the scope and also around the camera made of paper of cardboard for starters to see the effects.

I mean, why are umbrellas used on hot beaches as well as Mexican head shades ??? :oops:

Also an Infra-Red non-contact Thermometers as those sold on Amazon, but make sure they cover the ranges you are likely to require , as the COVID types have a very limited temperature range. Not expensive.

I trust these couple of ideas, might assist you and sometime-soon when I get eventually to bed, I no doubt will come-up with more suggestions.

Best Wishes
Terry
and good morning - your time !! :movie
Thanks, Terry.
I thought when the scope is facing the sun, the Quark behind it would get shielded from sun's direct radiation so heat shielding the sun was not on my list. Let me try that and report back the result


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Re: Any suggestion for a DIY Quark active cooler?

Post by RodAstro »

Hi Minh

I have had the opposite problem in our winter when the ambient temperature is well below zero and the Quark cant heat up enough to come on band.
What I have found is heating the black telecentric unit of the Quark with a camera lens dew heater that uses a PWM to control the heat and maintain a stable temperature. The telecentic unit is a large mass of aluminium so ideal for dissipating the heat evenly to the etalon unit and works well.

What I would suggest is doing the same but the other way around using a peltier water cooling unit used in computers, not expensive.
First wrap the telecentric unit in a coil of thin copper pipe and then connect this to the cooler with silicone tubing to the cooler and a small pump.
You can control the pump speed with a PWM variable speed controller so controlling the cooling by flow rate.
This should also keep any vibration very low.
The main thing is to keep a stable cooling temperature around the telecentric unit, otherwise the Quark heater will have problems keeping the etalon on band.

The problem you are having with just a fan is you are blowing the already hot air across the etalon housing so it will have little effect and adding a heat sink will probably just absorb more heat from the surrounding air.

some of links of what I am thinking
https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/224303198868
https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/362665653036
https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/384103882327

I hope this sounds useful and doable Rod


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Re: Any suggestion for a DIY Quark active cooler?

Post by minhlead »

RodAstro wrote: Thu May 13, 2021 12:02 pm Hi Minh

I have had the opposite problem in our winter when the ambient temperature is well below zero and the Quark cant heat up enough to come on band.
What I have found is heating the black telecentric unit of the Quark with a camera lens dew heater that uses a PWM to control the heat and maintain a stable temperature. The telecentic unit is a large mass of aluminium so ideal for dissipating the heat evenly to the etalon unit and works well.

What I would suggest is doing the same but the other way around using a peltier water cooling unit used in computers, not expensive.
First wrap the telecentric unit in a coil of thin copper pipe and then connect this to the cooler with silicone tubing to the cooler and a small pump.
You can control the pump speed with a PWM variable speed controller so controlling the cooling by flow rate.
This should also keep any vibration very low.
The main thing is to keep a stable cooling temperature around the telecentric unit, otherwise the Quark heater will have problems keeping the etalon on band.

The problem you are having with just a fan is you are blowing the already hot air across the etalon housing so it will have little effect and adding a heat sink will probably just absorb more heat from the surrounding air.

some of links of what I am thinking
https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/224303198868
https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/362665653036
https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/384103882327

I hope this sounds useful and doable Rod
Thanks, Rod.
AFAIK the etalon/oven is located in the red part of the Quark so maybe any heating/cooling applied should be on the red part to have maximum efficiency, no?
The water cooling is a really good idea. I just want to test if the air cooling works first. If it doesn't I would consider it. Thanks for your advice.
Last edited by minhlead on Thu May 13, 2021 3:02 pm, edited 1 time in total.


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Re: Any suggestion for a DIY Quark active cooler?

Post by minhlead »

Also, if simply blowing ambient air is not enough I think I'll put a tec behind the fan and blow some cooled air to the Quark. Figured it'll be easier than a water cooler with a lot of tubes and risk of leaking.


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Re: Any suggestion for a DIY Quark active cooler?

Post by rsfoto »

minhlead wrote: Thu May 13, 2021 3:00 pm Also, if simply blowing ambient air is not enough I think I'll put a tec behind the fan and blow some cooled air to the Quark. Figured it'll be easier than a water cooler with a lot of tubes and risk of leaking.
Hi,

That is not very effective. Better try to machine (hand filing ?) an Aluminum block to the radius of the quark and on the flat side you attach the TEC.

The other possibility could be to try to bend a CPU processor cooler sink into the curve of the Quark and the ribs do the cooling and on that you could attach a fan.

Just an idea


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Re: Any suggestion for a DIY Quark active cooler?

Post by minhlead »

rsfoto wrote: Thu May 13, 2021 4:00 pm
minhlead wrote: Thu May 13, 2021 3:00 pm Also, if simply blowing ambient air is not enough I think I'll put a tec behind the fan and blow some cooled air to the Quark. Figured it'll be easier than a water cooler with a lot of tubes and risk of leaking.
Hi,

That is not very effective. Better try to machine (hand filing ?) an Aluminum block to the radius of the quark and on the flat side you attach the TEC.

The other possibility could be to try to bend a CPU processor cooler sink into the curve of the Quark and the ribs do the cooling and on that you could attach a fan.

Just an idea
All very good thinking. I'll try them and report back the result here


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Re: Any suggestion for a DIY Quark active cooler?

Post by RodAstro »

Hi

I understand the etalon is in the red housing, the problem with cooling this housing is it is hard to cool it through 360 degrees because the electronic circuit is in the way. If you cool it from one side it is highly likely you will get uneven temperature inside and the etalon will be uneven when tuned.

My thinking is that by cooling the black part through 360 degrees this will draw the heat away from the upper etalon housing evenly and thus cooling the etalon evenly.
From experience of heating this is so if I heat the etalon housing, again you can only get effective heating on one side then I find the etalon comes on band on one side and not the other.

A simpler Idea is to contact Daystar and see if they could swap your Quark for a more suited unit to your temperatures. It is quite possible that they have a whole load of etalons that don't come on band in the normal specified temperature range because they need far more heating than the heating unit can supply. From what I have seen and had experience of Daystar are very helpful.

Rod


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Re: Any suggestion for a DIY Quark active cooler?

Post by minhlead »

RodAstro wrote: Thu May 13, 2021 7:07 pm Hi

I understand the etalon is in the red housing, the problem with cooling this housing is it is hard to cool it through 360 degrees because the electronic circuit is in the way. If you cool it from one side it is highly likely you will get uneven temperature inside and the etalon will be uneven when tuned.

My thinking is that by cooling the black part through 360 degrees this will draw the heat away from the upper etalon housing evenly and thus cooling the etalon evenly.
From experience of heating this is so if I heat the etalon housing, again you can only get effective heating on one side then I find the etalon comes on band on one side and not the other.

A simpler Idea is to contact Daystar and see if they could swap your Quark for a more suited unit to your temperatures. It is quite possible that they have a whole load of etalons that don't come on band in the normal specified temperature range because they need far more heating than the heating unit can supply. From what I have seen and had experience of Daystar are very helpful.

Rod
Well I am from Viet Nam and shipping things back and forth is just too costly. Also my Quark performs admirably when it's on band so I tends not to exchange it since I have really bad experience with Daystar's QC.
Also, while in the peak of summer we can have temperature exceed 50*C under the sun, on winter months, the temperature sometimes drop below 10*C and those are the time with best seeing condition.


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Re: Any suggestion for a DIY Quark active cooler?

Post by rsfoto »

RodAstro wrote: Thu May 13, 2021 7:07 pm Hi

I understand the etalon is in the red housing, the problem with cooling this housing is it is hard to cool it through 360 degrees because the electronic circuit is in the way. If you cool it from one side it is highly likely you will get uneven temperature inside and the etalon will be uneven when tuned.

My thinking is that by cooling the black part through 360 degrees this will draw the heat away from the upper etalon housing evenly and thus cooling the etalon evenly.
From experience of heating this is so if I heat the etalon housing, again you can only get effective heating on one side then I find the etalon comes on band on one side and not the other.

A simpler Idea is to contact Daystar and see if they could swap your Quark for a more suited unit to your temperatures. It is quite possible that they have a whole load of etalons that don't come on band in the normal specified temperature range because they need far more heating than the heating unit can supply. From what I have seen and had experience of Daystar are very helpful.

Rod

Hi Rod,
If you cool it from one side it is highly likely you will get uneven temperature inside and the etalon will be uneven when tuned
Good point but the question here is ¿ how is the heating done on the etalon ?

I think best would be to ask DayStar how to best cool it down.


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Re: Any suggestion for a DIY Quark active cooler?

Post by minhlead »

rsfoto wrote: Thu May 13, 2021 11:32 pm
RodAstro wrote: Thu May 13, 2021 7:07 pm Hi

I understand the etalon is in the red housing, the problem with cooling this housing is it is hard to cool it through 360 degrees because the electronic circuit is in the way. If you cool it from one side it is highly likely you will get uneven temperature inside and the etalon will be uneven when tuned.

My thinking is that by cooling the black part through 360 degrees this will draw the heat away from the upper etalon housing evenly and thus cooling the etalon evenly.
From experience of heating this is so if I heat the etalon housing, again you can only get effective heating on one side then I find the etalon comes on band on one side and not the other.

A simpler Idea is to contact Daystar and see if they could swap your Quark for a more suited unit to your temperatures. It is quite possible that they have a whole load of etalons that don't come on band in the normal specified temperature range because they need far more heating than the heating unit can supply. From what I have seen and had experience of Daystar are very helpful.

Rod

Hi Rod,
If you cool it from one side it is highly likely you will get uneven temperature inside and the etalon will be uneven when tuned
Good point but the question here is ¿ how is the heating done on the etalon ?

I think best would be to ask DayStar how to best cool it down.
they use a heating strip wraping around the optical stack and heat it from inside out.


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Re: Any suggestion for a DIY Quark active cooler?

Post by minhlead »

Okay so I tested the fan today and simply blowing ambient air lower the temperature of the Quark about 3 degree (41-38*C) which is a bit disappointing but it does get the Quark to tune again. But if the ambient get hotter I doubt it'll work so a peltier tec is on order


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Re: Any suggestion for a DIY Quark active cooler?

Post by Rusted »

It is too late now that you have ordered a cooler but what about evaporative cooling?
A simple fan, forcing air over a damp cloth, felt or foam wrapped around the item to be cooled.
Possibly fed via a wick and water reservoir for extended periods of cooling.
Take great care if mains electricity is involved.

Felt would be the favourite choice of material I think.
Simple cooling technology which has been used for millennia.

Having now read the whole thread I see my idea has been covered. :roll:


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Re: Any suggestion for a DIY Quark active cooler?

Post by minhlead »

Rusted wrote: Fri May 14, 2021 1:48 pm It is too late now that you have ordered a cooler but what about evaporative cooling?
A simple fan, forcing air over a damp cloth, felt or foam wrapped around the item to be cooled.
Possibly fed via a wick and water reservoir for extended periods of cooling.
Take great care if mains electricity is involved.

Felt would be the favourite choice of material I think.
Simple cooling technology which has been used for millennia.

Having now read the whole thread I see my idea has been covered. :roll:
I did consider evaporative cooling at first. But the damp cloth very quickly rises to the same temperature with ambient, a big fan that speed up evaporation also introduce unwanted vibration, a small fan does not have enough airflow to speed up the evaporation. Also rewetting the cloth takes a lot of effort. I want a solution that's fire and forget, small enough to carry and does not take a lot of maintenace.
I ordered a Peltier TEC which is dirt cheap (3$/pc) a heatsink with fan (also dirt cheap 1$/pc) lets see how it goes


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Re: Any suggestion for a DIY Quark active cooler?

Post by RodAstro »

Hi Rainer

The heating strip on the three Quarks I have been inside there is just a piece of nichrome wire floating around the etalon held in place by four dabs of silicone.
It heats the air inside the chamber not directly the etalon.

Rod


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Re: Any suggestion for a DIY Quark active cooler?

Post by minhlead »

RodAstro wrote: Fri May 14, 2021 3:40 pm Hi Rainer

The heating strip on the three Quarks I have been inside there is just a piece of nichrome wire floating around the etalon held in place by four dabs of silicone.
It heats the air inside the chamber not directly the etalon.

Rod
So i found someone who opened a Quark and if it's like this if I cool the outer case there's a risk of condensation inside the etalon chamber is it not?
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Re: Any suggestion for a DIY Quark active cooler?

Post by marktownley »

What about using a beer can cooler sleeve?


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Re: Any suggestion for a DIY Quark active cooler?

Post by minhlead »

marktownley wrote: Sat May 15, 2021 1:46 pm What about using a beer can cooler sleeve?
it is just some kind of insulation right?


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Re: Any suggestion for a DIY Quark active cooler?

Post by marktownley »

minhlead wrote: Sat May 15, 2021 2:07 pm
marktownley wrote: Sat May 15, 2021 1:46 pm What about using a beer can cooler sleeve?
it is just some kind of insulation right?
Think you can get 'active' ones and ones that go in the freezer prior to use... Worth a look around the internet.


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Re: Any suggestion for a DIY Quark active cooler?

Post by minhlead »

Okay so I put a Peltier TEC into my Quark and it has a delta T of about -15*C under ambient. Not bad, if everything works out, I can now do imaging in 50*C plus easily. Now if only I get some sunshine for testing.
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Re: Any suggestion for a DIY Quark active cooler?

Post by rsfoto »

Hi,

Excellent solution ! Now just make another one and put them on the opposite sides :mrgreen:

Maybe add a regulation using an ¿ Arduino ? or whatever other processor ...


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Re: Any suggestion for a DIY Quark active cooler?

Post by rsfoto »

So i found someone who opened a Quark and if it's like this if I cool the outer case there's a risk of condensation inside the etalon chamber is it not?
Hi,

I do not think so.

I have never been in Vietnam but I guess you have tropical weather conditions according to what you have written in prior messages and that means high relative humidity.

I guess you can measure your ambient relative humidity and so you also have the dew point where you live.

In the moment the temperature of your quark reaches dew point temperature then a condensation could be possible but I think that you will never reach the dew point temperature in your Quark.


regards Rainer

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Re: Any suggestion for a DIY Quark active cooler?

Post by minhlead »

rsfoto wrote: Thu May 20, 2021 4:55 pm Hi,

Excellent solution ! Now just make another one and put them on the opposite sides :mrgreen:

Maybe add a regulation using an ¿ Arduino ? or whatever other processor ...
I am adjusting the power of the cooler using a PWM dimmer which worked out pretty well. However I already have the dew point calculated from my weatherstation http://minhnguyentrong.duckdns.org/weatherradio/ so an Arduino regulator that keep the temperature just above the dew point to avoid condensation is the next logical step. But a manual adjuster is okay for now, I wanna test out the cooler in direct sun light to see if it needs some more punch.


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Re: Any suggestion for a DIY Quark active cooler?

Post by minhlead »

rsfoto wrote: Thu May 20, 2021 4:55 pm Hi,

Excellent solution ! Now just make another one and put them on the opposite sides :mrgreen:
Actually the outer case seems to have excellent heat conductivity. Even at delta T -15 degree under ambient, I am just measuring about under 1 *C in disperancy from the front and the back( even smaller if I keep the delta T lower) And since the etalon does not directly screwed into the outer case I think it wont introduce too much heat gradient into the etalon.


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Re: Any suggestion for a DIY Quark active cooler?

Post by christian viladrich »

It looks good !


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Re: Any suggestion for a DIY Quark active cooler?

Post by minhlead »

christian viladrich wrote: Thu May 20, 2021 6:17 pm It looks good !
Thanks Christian,
I still wanna do some testing with tilting as a 2 pronged approach to the tuning and see what works best.


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Re: Any suggestion for a DIY Quark active cooler?

Post by marktownley »

Looks good!


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Re: Any suggestion for a DIY Quark active cooler?

Post by minhlead »

marktownley wrote: Thu May 20, 2021 8:15 pmLooks good!
Thanks Mark,
Hope it works. If it does I'll make a 3d printed case for better mounting mechanism


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Re: Any suggestion for a DIY Quark active cooler?

Post by AndiesHandyHandies »

Hi

When RodAstro took the retaining screw out of the joint between the red bit and the black barlow/combo that the joint is not screwed up tight.

There are a series of holes for the screw so its unlikely to be screwed up tight.

So the pressure of the tie downs will be tilting the joint I presume.

The screw is a imperial torq security one I think being USA.

Cheers. Andrew.


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Re: Any suggestion for a DIY Quark active cooler?

Post by minhlead »

AndiesHandyHandies wrote: Fri May 21, 2021 7:58 am Hi

When RodAstro took the retaining screw out of the joint between the red bit and the black barlow/combo that the joint is not screwed up tight.

There are a series of holes for the screw so its unlikely to be screwed up tight.

So the pressure of the tie downs will be tilting the joint I presume.

The screw is a imperial torq security one I think being USA.

Cheers. Andrew.
Thanks Andy, I worried the same thing too. But i tried to flex the joint between the black telecentric barlow and the red outer case but it seems solid to me, no flexing. And when I make the radiator I already take this joint into account, the tie down and the radiator actually both applying pressure to the black telecentric (the radiator extends about 5mm and seats partly on the telecentric barlow) , the tie-down on the 1.25 inches eyepiece drawer is fixed lightly.
20210521_205353~2.jpg
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Re: Any suggestion for a DIY Quark active cooler?

Post by minhlead »

Okay so the cooler works very well. Brings the temperature down about -12*C.
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20210522_144336.jpg
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Re: Any suggestion for a DIY Quark active cooler?

Post by marktownley »

Good job!


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Re: Any suggestion for a DIY Quark active cooler?

Post by minhlead »

marktownley wrote: Sat May 22, 2021 10:06 amGood job!
Maybe I should patent it. "An apparatus for cooling optical filter". Sounds good :))


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Re: Any suggestion for a DIY Quark active cooler?

Post by christian viladrich »

You should sell the patent to DayStar ;-)


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Re: Any suggestion for a DIY Quark active cooler?

Post by minhlead »

christian viladrich wrote: Sat May 22, 2021 1:08 pm You should sell the patent to DayStar ;-)
They'd be first on the list :))


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