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Re: Rear Mounted Lunt 60 Modular Mod (HA) | Complete

Posted: Tue Jan 18, 2022 10:38 pm
by marktownley
DanielD wrote: Tue Jan 18, 2022 9:16 pm In Layman's terms the collimator is mounted in front of the etalon chamber and then the OTA is shortened to be able to reach focus?
Yes

Re: Rear Mounted Lunt 60 Modular Mod (HA) | Complete

Posted: Sat Jan 22, 2022 8:29 pm
by hopskipson
Hi Marty,

That's a really nice modification and clear and concise write-up! I have a CR-6 refractor, similar to the one you are using. I have been mulling over selling my SM 90 and getting a Lunt Modular 80 double-stack. Do you know if the etalon housing for the 80 would fit into a 2" focuser? Do you think with double stacking, there will be too much weight hanging on the focuser (I upgraded to a Moonlite)? Thanks and clear skies!

James

Re: Rear Mounted Lunt 60 Modular Mod (HA) | Complete

Posted: Mon Jan 24, 2022 12:35 pm
by torsinadoc
hopskipson wrote: Sat Jan 22, 2022 8:29 pm Hi Marty,

That's a really nice modification and clear and concise write-up! I have a CR-6 refractor, similar to the one you are using. I have been mulling over selling my SM 90 and getting a Lunt Modular 80 double-stack. Do you know if the etalon housing for the 80 would fit into a 2" focuser? Do you think with double stacking, there will be too much weight hanging on the focuser (I upgraded to a Moonlite)? Thanks and clear skies!

James
Mapleridge used a CR6 lunt 80 mod until he changed scopes

viewtopic.php?t=25185

viewtopic.php?t=32743

Re: Rear Mounted Lunt 60 Modular Mod (HA) | Complete

Posted: Mon Jan 24, 2022 11:21 pm
by MapleRidge
James...

I used the DSII external etalon in my mod, and it is much larger than a 2" focuser...I can get the dimension if needed. I is also quite heavy so I would not think it would be a good plan to adapt it into a focuser. This one is best fixed to the scope and put the focuser after it. I have the 2" and 2.5" Moonlites and wouldn't try the 80mm etalon mounted in either of them. The 50mm is maybe more suitable, but I would still be concerned about the stress on the focuser with the need to turn the pressure knob.

The primary etalon in the LS80T scope can be un-screwed from the solar scope as well but it needs a fine thread machined or sourced form other adapters in order to adapt it to a mod...and it weighs more than the DS unit. The second link that was posted shows the latest revision...the same basic setup was used to fit the DSII onto 3 OTAs...Celestron C102, Celestron CR-150 and now used on the Orion EON 130mm OTA.

PM me if you have any specific questions.

Brian

Re: Rear Mounted Lunt 60 Modular Mod (HA) | Complete

Posted: Sat Feb 12, 2022 11:59 pm
by MalVeauX
MapleRidge wrote: Tue Jan 11, 2022 11:43 pm One question...with the pressure tuned assembly mounted in the focuser, how well does it handle tuning (as in stress on the focuser tube with the twisting actions to make tuning adjustments)? I expect in warmer climes the twisting motion shouldn't be too stressful, but I'd be afraid of damaging the focuser in the cold.
I'm in Florida, fairly warm here. I've not had any issues with twisting down the pressure tuner. My focuser is not special, its a linear bearing GSO but it handles the stress no problem with all this weight too. I can't speak for cold places and how it would behave!

Very best,

Re: Rear Mounted Lunt 60 Modular Mod (HA) | Complete

Posted: Sun Feb 13, 2022 12:01 am
by MalVeauX
DanielD wrote: Tue Jan 18, 2022 9:16 pm In Layman's terms the collimator is mounted in front of the etalon chamber and then the OTA is shortened to be able to reach focus?
Correct! I measured where the collimator needed to be relative to the objective so that it was positioned in a specific light cone. I had to shorten this OTA for this particular setup. Other scopes with different setups would need different distances for everything. This is the same as you'll find with a PST mod or Lunt 50 mod, or any air spaced etalon using a collimator lens for modding.

Very best,

Re: Rear Mounted Lunt 60 Modular Mod (HA) | Complete

Posted: Sun Feb 13, 2022 12:04 am
by MalVeauX
hopskipson wrote: Sat Jan 22, 2022 8:29 pm Do you know if the etalon housing for the 80 would fit into a 2" focuser? Do you think with double stacking, there will be too much weight hanging on the focuser (I upgraded to a Moonlite)? Thanks and clear skies!

James
The Lunt 80 etalons are pretty big, it would be a tight squeeze with 2" focusers. You'd be better off with the next size up focuser like those 2.7" or 3.X" focusers for something larger like that. Not just weight but clear diameter comes into play with the light cone, especially if you have to shorten an OTA for these collimators. The other option is to remove the collimators and use a telecentric system, but it's not great and requires really long focal-ratios to even get back to what it was doing with the collimators (see Christian's calcs and graphs; not a lot of compelling data shows using telecentric with air spaced is worth while to me).

Very best,

Re: Rear Mounted Lunt 60 Modular Mod (HA) | Complete

Posted: Sun Feb 13, 2022 12:05 am
by MalVeauX
Sorry for the delay, I have had major issues connecting to SolarChat. Accessing the site seems to take ages. It's like the server was changed to something lesser, or maybe my routing to the site has drastically changed and now hopes around the world a few times first. But something changed and its incredibly slow to load for me now. :(

++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

Some more results from back in December:

Image

Very best,

Re: Rear Mounted Lunt 60 Modular Mod (HA) | Complete

Posted: Sun Feb 13, 2022 6:16 am
by marktownley
Thanks for the updates Marty. The results speak for themselves, it's a very effective mod.

Sorry to hear you were having access issues. Nothing has changed behind the scenes here but I think I will give the cache a purge just for good measure.

Re: Rear Mounted Lunt 60 Modular Mod (HA) | Complete

Posted: Sun Feb 13, 2022 1:34 pm
by OlegLviv
MalVeauX welcome back!
Please tell me when you planing create Lunt60 mod with Celestron 8hd?
Im waiting=)))

Re: Rear Mounted Lunt 60 Modular Mod (HA) | Complete

Posted: Sun Feb 20, 2022 1:24 am
by MalVeauX
OlegLviv wrote: Sun Feb 13, 2022 1:34 pm MalVeauX welcome back!
Please tell me when you planing create Lunt60 mod with Celestron 8hd?
Im waiting=)))
It already works with that, SCT are much easier since you can move the primary mirror. Refractors are harder due to needing to place the collimator at specific location in the light cone. This mod works natively right away with SCT due to that primary mirror moving and should work with Mak too. I don't advise Newtonian unless it's long focal-ratio and even then its just harder to setup and balance. SCT and refractor are just easier frankly for this stuff. I will get some examples of it working and try for some ok data in sub-angstrom seeing when I can.

Very best,

Re: Rear Mounted Lunt 60 Modular Mod (HA) | Complete

Posted: Mon Feb 21, 2022 6:44 am
by OlegLviv
MalVeauX wrote: Sun Feb 20, 2022 1:24 am
OlegLviv wrote: Sun Feb 13, 2022 1:34 pm MalVeauX welcome back!
Please tell me when you planing create Lunt60 mod with Celestron 8hd?
Im waiting=)))
It already works with that, SCT are much easier since you can move the primary mirror. Refractors are harder due to needing to place the collimator at specific location in the light cone. This mod works natively right away with SCT due to that primary mirror moving and should work with Mak too. I don't advise Newtonian unless it's long focal-ratio and even then its just harder to setup and balance. SCT and refractor are just easier frankly for this stuff. I will get some examples of it working and try for some ok data in sub-angstrom seeing when I can.

Very best,
Thank you very much! Soon will be arrive my C8 HD and Televue Powermate 4x for Lunt60 mod.

Best Regards

Re: Rear Mounted Lunt 60 Modular Mod (HA) | Complete

Posted: Mon Feb 21, 2022 10:03 am
by Boso36
OlegLviv wrote: Mon Feb 21, 2022 6:44 am
MalVeauX wrote: Sun Feb 20, 2022 1:24 am
OlegLviv wrote: Sun Feb 13, 2022 1:34 pm MalVeauX welcome back!
Please tell me when you planing create Lunt60 mod with Celestron 8hd?
Im waiting=)))
It already works with that, SCT are much easier since you can move the primary mirror. Refractors are harder due to needing to place the collimator at specific location in the light cone. This mod works natively right away with SCT due to that primary mirror moving and should work with Mak too. I don't advise Newtonian unless it's long focal-ratio and even then its just harder to setup and balance. SCT and refractor are just easier frankly for this stuff. I will get some examples of it working and try for some ok data in sub-angstrom seeing when I can.

Very best,
Thank you very much! Soon will be arrive my C8 HD and Televue Powermate 4x for Lunt60 mod.

Best Regards
Fascinating work all.
I wonder does anyone have a step by step instruction to make Combination or Franken-solarscopes, as I find it hard to work out from the beginning first principles to making all the adaptors and stuff fit together, without getting blinded by the Sun's photons. It is also harder without the search function on this forum.

Many thanks.
Magnus

Re: Rear Mounted Lunt 60 Modular Mod (HA) | Complete

Posted: Tue May 03, 2022 6:39 am
by OlegLviv
A couple of days ago I stacked my 127 f9 telescope with Lunt LS60T Ha serial number 20111xxx, and noticed that there is a built-in 2x barlow lens in front of the etalon and the telescope itself is not f8.3 its f4.1.

Why they did so I do not know without a 60mm object 250mm focal length and f4?

After testing, to be honest, I was not very happy now, I don't know if the 60mm standard Lunt has 35mm or only 20mm?

From the defects, I started the glare on the sides, the sweet spot remained the same as in pst mod 2!

Maybe when I buy a full-aperture ERF glare will disappear?

What is the difference between your Lunt LS60MT and my LS 60T HA?

with 2.5 telewue we have F44 1140*2*2.5X= 5700MM
with 3x telewue we have F54 1140*2*3X=6700MM
with 5x telewue we have F90 (1140*2*5X)=11200MM

My setup:
Refractor 127/1140 f9
Lunt LS60T Ha
Front ring M50X1 M48X0.75
Baader Ha 35nm 2.0
Apollo Max 432mm

Re: Rear Mounted Lunt 60 Modular Mod (HA) | Complete

Posted: Tue May 03, 2022 11:24 am
by MalVeauX
OlegLviv wrote: Tue May 03, 2022 6:39 am After testing, to be honest, I was not very happy now, I don't know if the 60mm standard Lunt has 35mm or only 20mm?

From the defects, I started the glare on the sides, the sweet spot remained the same as in pst mod 2!

Maybe when I buy a full-aperture ERF glare will disappear?

What is the difference between your Lunt LS60MT and my LS 60T HA?
Hi,

The older Lunt and newer Lunt are the same other than the OTA (70mm F6 ED on the new one, internally masks the aperture to 60mm F7). The chambers, etalon, etc, are all the same. Even the threaded nose with the red ERF is the same. The only difference is the older one threads into an OTA and the modular one inserts and secures with thumb bolts. There is no barlow in there; you can check by measuring the focal length of the objective and verifying with the disc image at focus. The lens in front of the etalon is just a collimator lens.

Your issues are from placement. The collimator lens needs to be at -264mm back focus. Don't use focal ratio to place the colliator, use a measured back focus value. The glare will not be fixed with an ERF, it's glaring because its not in the correct position. The sweet spot will be way larger than a PST when you get the collimator in the correct place (you can see my results above; it's a 35~38mm clear aperture etalon, the PST is 20mm clear aperture, you will have a larger sweet spot with the Lunt 60 etalon if properly placed).

Did you shorten your 127mm F9 telescope so that you could insert the collimator to -264mm of back focus?

Very best,

Re: Rear Mounted Lunt 60 Modular Mod (HA) | Complete

Posted: Tue May 03, 2022 1:33 pm
by OlegLviv
Honestly, I shortened this telescope to PST MOD 2 and cut a little pipe, but to cut a lot I put in front of the standard Baader 1.25x GPC and I was able to focus and shoot normally!

Now I didn't cut anything, I just made a ring to attach the lunt to it and that's it.
I thought that the distance for PST MOD2 and for Lunt 60 is the same and did not cut or measure anything.

My friend measured everything and says that the lens has a focus of 250mm f4 and not 500mm f8.3 my telescope on the passport write 60/500 mm f8.3

If you say that there is no 2x Barlow lens in this LS60T Ha model, that's fine.

On photo without lens barlow only camera and BF15.We see vignetting and a sweet spot.

A year ago we did 220mm back focus for PST MOD2, now we didn't cut the 264mm telescope and just connected it to the telescope.

I understand that you need to cut off the telescope so that the native focus is in 0 position and focus on the lunt focus and find a distance of 264mm?

Re: Rear Mounted Lunt 60 Modular Mod (HA) | Complete

Posted: Thu May 05, 2022 1:04 pm
by MalVeauX
OlegLviv wrote: Tue May 03, 2022 1:33 pm Now I didn't cut anything, I just made a ring to attach the lunt to it and that's it.
I thought that the distance for PST MOD2 and for Lunt 60 is the same and did not cut or measure anything.

If you say that there is no 2x Barlow lens in this LS60T Ha model, that's fine.

On photo without lens barlow only camera and BF15.We see vignetting and a sweet spot.

A year ago we did 220mm back focus for PST MOD2, now we didn't cut the 264mm telescope and just connected it to the telescope.

I understand that you need to cut off the telescope so that the native focus is in 0 position and focus on the lunt focus and find a distance of 264mm?
Hi,

Yea, that's the issue, it's too far away from the position the collimating lens needs to be in. It's not the same as a PST at all (which needs -200mm back focus to place the collimator lens). Try to let go of focal-ratio as it's not what is used for any of these collimator lenses, they use focal lengths. Lots of these designs internally mask a larger aperture, so the focal-ratio is deceptive anyways.

You don't have to take my word for it; just take the objective of your Lunt 60 and with nothing else in the OTA, just the lens, see where the disc comes to focus--that's its focal length. Then measure from that plane of focus to where the collimator lens sits inside the OTA. That backfocus distance is where the collimator needs to be in any OTA, so you can scale it up to any larger aperture, but that back focus distance will be constant. Do not use focal ratio for that, use the exact back focus distance. My Lunt measured at -264mm as mentioned. The older Lunt models likely are using the same internal hardware and the only difference is the OTA (the newer one being a 70mm F6 ED frac, bigger than the older Lunt achromatic doublet OTA).

Again refer to my first few posts that show the method to determine where the collimator must be.

Very best,

Re: Rear Mounted Lunt 60 Modular Mod (HA) | Complete

Posted: Thu May 12, 2022 5:53 pm
by OlegLviv
Good evening I am from Ukraine!
My friend measured everything today and said that there is a lens that increases the focal length according to his calculations 1.88x.
Set the distance on the collimator. And saw that the difference between the sweet spot Coronado PST and Lunt 60 almost did not change.
We will make that the center of a sweet spot was as much as possible on the center and it is necessary to increase it as much as possible.
What can you say?
What's wrong with my Lunt?
It turns out that we have not only different Ota but also different middle of the telescope. :?

Re: Rear Mounted Lunt 60 Modular Mod (HA) | Complete

Posted: Sat May 14, 2022 12:31 pm
by MalVeauX
Hi,

I highly doubt the inside of the 60's are different and the only difference is the OTA. The collimator lens may have a slight magnification to it. But it doesn't matter. All that matters is where the collimator sits in terms of its distance from the focal plane. It's super obvious when you track the collimator and etalon from too far away from that point (-264mm +/- 1~2mm) as it goes from poor performance to obvious high contrast performance as its placed correctly.

Yours wasn't working because you had it too far back. It needs to be at -264mm of back focus. It's truly that simple. Nothing is wrong with your system other than its placement.

Very best,