393.4 bp0.1 - yes it does exist.

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393.4 bp0.1 - yes it does exist.

Post by TheSkyBurner » Tue Jun 19, 2018 10:46 pm

This is a prototype 27mm filter, and it cost about the same as a lunt B1800.
393.4bp.1.jpg
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Re: 393.4 bp0.1 - yes it does exist.

Post by Valery » Thu Jun 21, 2018 1:18 am

3934.5A instead of 3933,7A

PB 0.1nm is not enough characteristic. How the sides are steep? What the skirt width?

Lunt and PST CaK filters have very steep sides and very good finesse.
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Re: 393.4 bp0.1 - yes it does exist.

Post by TheSkyBurner » Thu Jun 21, 2018 3:26 am

i dont know the details, or the company that makes this. apollo sent me a copy of the email,

I assume it is not a final production since it was marked as prototyping r&d. All i know is that some one is making these things in the united states on a double sided uv silica substrate.

Lunt element is two filter's cemented together. Pst cak filter was never scanned for transmission and I doubt it is 2.2 angstrom. its probably closer to 5 angstrom by itself. The pst cak originally had a primary transmission filter, a uv blocker on the prism, and two filters in the eyepiece to make the image incredibly low transmission.

88.% transmission from one single filter at this wavelength that narrow is quite an excellent accomplishment and I would gladly buy it regardless of the off band wavelength because it can be tilt tuned to bring it on band like a hydrogen alpha etalon.

Also the lunt filter is 393.4nm, so the comparison is rather equivalent.

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Re: 393.4 bp0.1 - yes it does exist.

Post by TheSkyBurner » Thu Jun 21, 2018 3:45 am

i spent 5 minutes to draw this visual plot, it looks interesting to say the least.
393.4bp.1 plot.jpg
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Re: 393.4 bp0.1 - yes it does exist.

Post by TheSkyBurner » Thu Jun 21, 2018 4:03 am

with the plot visualized you can see that half bandwidth at 44% is 16 milli-angstroms wide/ or 1.6 angstroms. This is definitely lower than a complete Lunt CaK system in terms of FWHM, and definitely higher transmission than both the lunt and coronado filter.

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Re: 393.4 bp0.1 - yes it does exist.

Post by TheSkyBurner » Thu Jun 21, 2018 4:07 am

valery: unless you we get a physical spectral plot performed on the lunt system or the coronado system there no way to guess what the peak to peak valley transmission is based on a solar image, it could be equally erratic.

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Re: 393.4 bp0.1 - yes it does exist.

Post by TheSkyBurner » Thu Jun 21, 2018 4:21 am

The fact that nobody is capturing filaments with the cak pst mod is a huge indicator that it is also not centered at 393.37nm.. I have a double stacked pst cak mod and i dont see the filaments either. They should be there, so it is likely the pst was never on band.

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Re: 393.4 bp0.1 - yes it does exist.

Post by TheSkyBurner » Thu Jun 21, 2018 4:21 am

Here is a true 393.37 image sequence that includes the filament.

nobody has ever captured this on any of the pst cak mod systems uploaded to these forums that i am aware of. Not even close.
a0000.gif
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Re: 393.4 bp0.1 - yes it does exist.

Post by TheSkyBurner » Thu Jun 21, 2018 4:50 am

and here is a comparison of christian viladrich's materion barr filter that is .24nm,.

Way off band , yet still incredible! So .16 nm is only going to be incredibly better in theory!
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Re: 393.4 bp0.1 - yes it does exist.

Post by marktownley » Thu Jun 21, 2018 3:39 pm

Looks exciting!
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Re: 393.4 bp0.1 - yes it does exist.

Post by Valery » Thu Jun 21, 2018 4:33 pm

marktownley wrote:
Thu Jun 21, 2018 3:39 pm
Looks exciting!
What exactly do you expect from such a filter, Mark?

May be it will show a filament or two as additional to what can be imaged with easily available Lunt?

I personally remember that Walter stated that the best contrast he has found was with Lunt CaL module
added with PST filter#1. This should give about 1,5A bandwidth with VERY steep sides of transmission curve.
The second best was two PST#1 filters coupled with Baader K-line filter. The third was the combination of
two straight Lunt CaK modules. This is what Harald Paleske use in his CaK telescope.

The only really interesting new filter for amateur solar imaging will be Ca I filter at 8542,1A with at least
0,5A bandwidth (double staked two 0,7A). There will be as much filaments as in H-a or even more and prettier.
And the seeing there is also MUCH MUCH more stable than at 393nm.

What do you think, Apollo?


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Re: 393.4 bp0.1 - yes it does exist.

Post by Spectral Joe » Thu Jun 21, 2018 4:46 pm

TheSkyBurner wrote:
Thu Jun 21, 2018 4:03 am
with the plot visualized you can see that half bandwidth at 44% is 16 milli-angstroms wide/ or 1.6 angstroms. This is definitely lower than a complete Lunt CaK system in terms of FWHM, and definitely higher transmission than both the lunt and coronado filter.
16 milliangstroms is 0.016 angstrom, not 1.6, perhaps you meant 16 millimicrons, aka nanometers. That would be 160 angstroms.
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Re: 393.4 bp0.1 - yes it does exist.

Post by TheSkyBurner » Thu Jun 21, 2018 4:50 pm

Just got another plot, the filter is greatly tunable. Here is a plot with 5 degrees.

Valery, tilt tuning the narrow band frequency on a kline system is extremely noteworthy at this point. The daystar system is $6000 and 5 angstroms.

Now i have just confirmed this filter can be blueshifted with a skybender with .01 degree precision. That is huge news in my book.


Sorry for the mistake joe. Glad you corrected it. Its still an amazing filter regardless.

FC72F943-31B1-4E08-BF1A-DDC66A014704.jpeg
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Re: 393.4 bp0.1 - yes it does exist.

Post by Valery » Thu Jun 21, 2018 5:01 pm

TheSkyBurner wrote:
Thu Jun 21, 2018 4:50 pm
Just got another plot, the filter is greatly tunable. Here is a plot with 5 degrees.

Valery, tilt tuning the narrow band frequency on a kline system is extremely noteworthy at this point. The daystar system is $6000 and 5 angstroms.

Now i have just confirmed this filter can be blueshifted with a skybender with .01 degree precision. That is huge news in my book.


Sorry for the mistake joe. Glad you corrected it. Its still an amazing filter regardless.


Tilt of a thick enough parallel plate will cause an astigmatic image. One need to use a compensatory plate with opposite tilt.

Tilt also produce banding.

To bad you didn't send me the Skybender.


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Re: 393.4 bp0.1 - yes it does exist.

Post by TheSkyBurner » Thu Jun 21, 2018 5:08 pm

Valeryy, i just asked your question about the 854.2 filter , you are looking at a cost of $3500 to prototype it for two 27mm filters and the process to make them currently has a low yield with low success rate. So they are pretty rare to make exactly where you want them and have to be sorted out very carefully after something called annealing.

“The filters are always offband deeply blue winged, and they have to be baked at 200+ celcius for several weeks to raise the red wing. It must be analyzed very regularly during the annealing process and this is the hard part”

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Re: 393.4 bp0.1 - yes it does exist.

Post by marktownley » Thu Jun 21, 2018 7:29 pm

This is about the closest I ever got to the image you shared:
CaK-Ani-BHS.gif
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Re: 393.4 bp0.1 - yes it does exist.

Post by TheSkyBurner » Thu Jun 21, 2018 8:27 pm

Mark that is the coolest capture by far, did you ApoD it?

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Re: 393.4 bp0.1 - yes it does exist.

Post by TheSkyBurner » Thu Jun 21, 2018 8:29 pm

Do you still have the raw data for that animation mark? You should over expose it a little and enhance that ejection plume

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Re: 393.4 bp0.1 - yes it does exist.

Post by Spectral Joe » Sat Jun 23, 2018 4:42 am

080715 Ca montage.jpg
080715 Ca montage.jpg (443.05 KiB) Viewed 692 times
052017 3lamb montage large.jpg
052017 3lamb montage large.jpg (239.35 KiB) Viewed 692 times
021716 montage.jpg
021716 montage.jpg (34.85 KiB) Viewed 692 times
For some perspective, here are some images comparing CaII H (3968), Ha (6563), Hb (5461) and CaII (8542). In each case, the images were taken within minutes of each other, with a bandpass of 0.3 Angstrom. Just to provide images that illustrate the various points being made here.
Observing the Sun with complex optical systems since 1966, and still haven't burned, melted or damaged anything.
Not blind yet, either!
Light pollution? I only observe the Sun, magnitude -26.74. Pollute that!

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Re: 393.4 bp0.1 - yes it does exist.

Post by TheSkyBurner » Sat Jun 23, 2018 6:32 am

Great post joe, that is remarkable! It looks like the 854.2 is showing some brighter saturated flocculus than the CaH image.

The 546.1 mercury line looks way awesome compared to them all. I wonder what this line looks like at 4000mm, that is worthy of a daystar custom order.


examining that mercury image even closer it appears that it would be directly oppisite in polarity to the cah line.

Spectral joe!!! WOW! That is super impressive what you can capture there. Thank you so much for showing us your images, they are spectacular. Look at that doppler elevation shift of the filament, it is totally three dimensional.
spectral joe wow.gif
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Last edited by TheSkyBurner on Sat Jun 23, 2018 6:49 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: 393.4 bp0.1 - yes it does exist.

Post by marktownley » Sat Jun 23, 2018 6:47 am

That's a great collection of images Joe!

Sadly I don't have the original data anymore for the prom lift off animation.
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Re: 393.4 bp0.1 - yes it does exist.

Post by Spectral Joe » Sat Jun 23, 2018 2:38 pm

Thanks, guys! Sorry about the wavelength labeling confusion, 5461 should be 4861, it was late and I had something else on my mind.
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Not blind yet, either!
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Re: 393.4 bp0.1 - yes it does exist.

Post by Valery » Sat Jun 23, 2018 3:47 pm

One should always remember that Ca II I at 8542,1A shows fibrills, filaments, prominences, spiculaes, flocculaes and supergranulation - a full range of details. And, the most important is that earth atmosphere is MUCH more steady at this wave length and so, one always can expect good seeing.

Joe, thanks a lot for your images.


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Re: 393.4 bp0.1 - yes it does exist.

Post by Valery » Sat Jun 23, 2018 3:48 pm

marktownley wrote:
Thu Jun 21, 2018 7:29 pm
This is about the closest I ever got to the image you shared:
CaK-Ani-BHS.gif

Fantastic is all I can say.


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Largest full size 185 - 356mm Dielectric Energy Rejection Filters (D-ERF) by ARIES Instruments.

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