PST Etalon with a Quark, Log & Results

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Re: PST Etalon with a Quark, Log & Results

Post by marktownley » Tue Feb 12, 2019 7:32 pm

Love these raw stacks Marty! But, then you can probably tell from the images I post I err on that side of things with my processing...

You have the etalon combination nailed!
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Re: PST Etalon with a Quark, Log & Results

Post by MalVeauX » Tue Feb 12, 2019 10:52 pm

There are places where I can see a double-limb, others it's gone. It definitely can be made more apparent with different processing. I prefer a darker more contrasty surface, but it's difficult to do that without wrecking the limb with it. I wish it were easier to way under-example and simply lift proms and the limb, but due to the transmission levels, the amount of gain being used, this seems to not work for this particular setup, at least yet. It may be a processing thing on my end that I have to figure out.

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Re: PST Etalon with a Quark, Log & Results

Post by Bob Yoesle » Wed Feb 13, 2019 8:54 pm

Hi Marty,

In some of your most recent images I'm seeing just a hint of the double limb, which is not obtrusive. In others I'm seeing processing artifacts, not the double limb of the photosphere:

M Wise highlight.jpg
M Wise highlight.jpg (241.96 KiB) Viewed 1002 times

Note the irregular hard edge appearance all along the limb and at the indicated locations...
Love these raw stacks Marty! But, then you can probably tell from the images I post I err on that side of things with my processing...
Mark I don't think you are in "err." I've been thinking about this for awhile. Here's my thoughts on the subject.

I guess it comes down to what is the purpose of posting images on these forums to begin with. With all due respect to Alan Friedman (a very talented graphic artist by trade - https://avertedimagination.squarespace.com/), his introduction of using colorized inverted (negative) disc images and positive prominence images made for dramatic and colorful "artistic impressions," but do not look anything like the Sun. They also made single stacked images perhaps somewhat "better looking" without the discontinuity at the limb where limb darkening runs into the bright ring of chromosphere - likely their original purpose. This is essentially hiding an imaging system defect in order to present "pretty pictures." To me it seems a little unfortunate that the forums are now awash in this faux imagery, giving many beginners an untrue version of reality, and is at odds to some degree with the principles of scientific accuracy.

I'd compare what is seen so often to the equivalent posting pictures of your family (sometimes ad nauseum) on social media like this:

FamilyGalleryBW2.jpg
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Or not to be sexist, but most of the folks on this forum are men. How many find one of the most beautiful of women to ever have walked the Earth attractive inverted and contrast enhanced, but with her eyes left normal?

Sophia.jpg
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Unless you're a fan of Andy Warhol, it doesn't do much for me. Not that occasionally an inverted or altered image isn't sometimes (sparingly) useful. From my perspective, the positive disc with negative prominences is instructive by demonstrating that prominences and the disc filaments are in reality one in the same phenomena, and that dark details on a light background are sometimes easier for the eye to perceive (I don't find this as true for the disc, if at all):

Filaproms full disc.jpg
Filaproms full disc.jpg (433.44 KiB) Viewed 1002 times

Off soapbox, thanks for looking, and of course your mileage - and opinion - may vary.
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Re: PST Etalon with a Quark, Log & Results

Post by MalVeauX » Fri Feb 15, 2019 4:47 pm

Heya,

Rotten weather lately. I got to do some more tests. This time, I revisited doing a full disc with the Quark & PST Etalon. I must have totally missed the boat because I guess I never tried putting a 0.5x focal reducer on the standard 1.25" nose extension after the tilt adapter (effectively moving it farther away from the sensor) and inserting that into the Quark's eyepiece holder, but also tried it with the PST etalon with apdaters in place and a 2" to 1.25" adapter and it too worked. I was able to get a full disc FOV out of a ST80 refractor with both the Quark & PST etalon with the 0.5x focal reducer and the IMX174 sensor size. I've had this for so long and yet I guess I just never tried putting the reducer on that side of the insert, and always had it closer to the sensor. Well dur dur dur, now I can do full discs no problem with my wee ST80.

Full Disc Double Stack Imaging train left to right:

ASI174MM -> ZWO Tilt Adapter -> 1.25" Nose -> GSO 0.5x 1.25" Focal Reducer -> 2" to 1.25" adapter -> PST Etalon & Adapters -> Quark with 2" eyepiece holder -> 2" 35mm Extension -" 2" 80mm Extension (with 2" UV/IR block filter threaded on nose) -> GSO 2" Crayford focuser -> ST80 (400mm F5) -> Aperture Mask of 60mm (F6.67)
FullDisc_Quark_PST_DS_02152019.jpg
FullDisc_Quark_PST_DS_02152019.jpg (56.61 KiB) Viewed 961 times
Here's the FOV, parameters, histogram and real time view in FireCapture:
ScreenShot_FullDisc_Quark_PST_DS_ST80_FR_02152019.jpg
ScreenShot_FullDisc_Quark_PST_DS_ST80_FR_02152019.jpg (139.52 KiB) Viewed 961 times
Here's a processed result (from a single exposure, no gamma):

Image

Now, back to high res. Here's the 150mm with the Quark & PST Etalon as normal, with the IMX174 & 0.5x focal reducer.
SolarSetup_02152019.jpg
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Here's the parameters, histogram, flat field applied and real time view in FireCapture:
ScreenShot_HighRes_02152019.jpg
ScreenShot_HighRes_02152019.jpg (177.23 KiB) Viewed 961 times
Here's today's filament & plage area near some limb prominences, I think I got the tuning better this time. Presented in normal view and inverted. This is the result of a single exposure, no gamma.

Image

Image

Very best,

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Re: PST Etalon with a Quark, Log & Results

Post by marktownley » Fri Feb 15, 2019 6:19 pm

Looks good Marty!
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Re: PST Etalon with a Quark, Log & Results

Post by MalVeauX » Sun Feb 17, 2019 5:08 pm

Had a little time this morning to get some testing between clouds.

150mm with the Quark & PST Etalon:

Image

Image

Image

Image

ST80 masked to 60mm with Quark & PST Etalon:

Image

Image

Very best,

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Re: PST Etalon with a Quark, Log & Results

Post by MalVeauX » Thu Feb 21, 2019 6:28 pm

Managed a little full disc time this morning with the Quark & PST Etalon together:

Image

Image

Very best,

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Re: PST Etalon with a Quark, Log & Results

Post by MalVeauX » Sun Feb 24, 2019 1:11 am

Heya,

I tried another setup today at two scales, full disc and a large scale. These are the Quark & PST Etalon together. One with the ST80 and one with a C8 Edge.

Image

Image

Image

Image

Very best,

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Re: PST Etalon with a Quark, Log & Results

Post by MalVeauX » Wed Feb 27, 2019 4:43 pm

Here's the limb today with the Quark & PST etalon with respect to tuning out the double limb:

Image

Image

Image

Image

Earth Scale:
EarthScale01.jpg
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Very best,

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Re: PST Etalon with a Quark, Log & Results

Post by MalVeauX » Wed Feb 27, 2019 6:15 pm

Toying around with some of the data to see what works best.

Here's one imaging run, 2000 frames, stacked 1250 of them. I've compared things from 60, 100, 180, 360, 500, 750, 1000, 1250, 1500, 2000 frames just to mess around with things. Playing around with different approaches to deconvolution and unsharp masking in IMPPG. For this one, it's lower on the deconvolution and harder on the unsharp mask. No other processing.
Unprocessed_1250frames_02272019.jpg
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Re: PST Etalon with a Quark, Log & Results

Post by MalVeauX » Fri Mar 01, 2019 9:34 pm

Does anyone know if a PST etalon can be stacked with a 2nd PST etalon without collimating lenses, like above, or do they both need to have their collimating lenses. Any ideas about the advantages with or without the 2nd set of collimating lenses?

I rarely see PST double stacks. I've seen a few here and there, they seem to be very fussy to get right. Curious if it would be worth trying a 2nd etalon since I already have one and adding a 10mm blocking filter.

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Re: PST Etalon with a Quark, Log & Results

Post by marktownley » Sat Mar 02, 2019 8:45 am

Try it, but I bet reflections will be a PITA...
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Re: PST Etalon with a Quark, Log & Results

Post by bart1805 » Sat Mar 02, 2019 8:57 am


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Re: PST Etalon with a Quark, Log & Results

Post by MalVeauX » Sat Apr 20, 2019 11:31 pm

Heya,

Been a while, figured I'd update this. The transmission was pretty low, so it made larger imaging scales more difficult. So recently, just to re-visit this, I went to a smaller scale.

This is my ST80 (80mm F5) with full aperture, so the Quark results in an F21 beam. This is not ideal, however, it seems to be a better match for the IMX174 pixels and for mixing with the PST etalon. Not sure why. PST Etalon without the collimating lenses after that. ASI174MM inserted, without any focal reducer. Transmission was better, but still quite low. This is at 10ms, gain 155 (38%) and gamma was neutral (off). It was fairly noisy and had pronounced newtonian rings. I couldn't get a flat frame to save my life (even with a tilt adapter). Processed most of it away in post.

Anyhow, the limb seems pretty good. Maybe the best I've been able to tune together so far? I likely will not pursue this farther than this. I think as a small scale double-stack option, it's viable, but far from optimal. But, I figured I would stop here for now on this note, to show the limb and how things are going with this experiement.

This is from today, AR2739 coming up to the limb.
80mm_Quark_PSTetalon_DS_181frames_04202019.jpg
80mm_Quark_PSTetalon_DS_181frames_04202019.jpg (130.34 KiB) Viewed 541 times
Solarsetup_05_04202019.jpg
Solarsetup_05_04202019.jpg (51.76 KiB) Viewed 541 times
Very best,

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Re: PST Etalon with a Quark, Log & Results

Post by Bob Yoesle » Sun Apr 21, 2019 7:29 pm

That's really very good Marty, and better than a lot of others I've seen with the more recently made filter systems.
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Re: PST Etalon with a Quark, Log & Results

Post by MalVeauX » Sun Apr 21, 2019 8:01 pm

Bob Yoesle wrote:
Sun Apr 21, 2019 7:29 pm
That's really very good Marty, and better than a lot of others I've seen with the more recently made filter systems.
Thank Bob,

It's amazing how minute nudges on the etalon, rotation, and the difference it makes to have a F28 beam, F35 beam, F42 beam, and even F21 beams has on the end result. I'm not sure what the true difference is, but at F35~F42 I was never able to make it work, but at the looser F21 it works. I can't explain it. Maybe I'm missing something.

Unfortunately the transmission is just so low, but that may be copy variation on top of things.

I tested this morning to see differences in transmission with two sensors. I tested an IMX174 & IMX178 to see if binning and different quantum efficiencies might help. After calculations just for fun, I figured the IMX178 would be less "fast" for imaging, and in reality, it was. The larger pixels of the IMX174 are much faster. This morning, just binning 2x2, I was able to fill my histogram with this double stack at 10ms, 45 gain, no gamma. I could image with that. But, the under-sampling was severe and the limb was just a smear of pixels, so I abandoned that as an option.

I'll be comparing this to a Solarmax 60mm Double Stack maybe in the next week or so, to put the final nail in the coffin.

Very best,

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