November Solar Challenge
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November Solar Challenge
The Bright Ring
I know some of you this month have shown this phenomena is starting to happen already around some spot groups. Let's have a good look at how often this occurs. It doesn't happen around every spot, is it a certain size, a type of group structure, how often?
It can be seen around the penumbra particularly prominent in CaK but also witnessed in white light, and as someone showed recently in the far wings of hydrogen alpha too. Let's take a good look this month.
Here is an extract from an article I wrote way back in (a very long time ago anyway) for more information:
Bright Ring
The Bright Ring was first observed by Waldmeier in 1939 and later again by Das and Ramanathan (1953) and more recently by Rast et al. 1999. It was observed that in violet and blue light, particularly in the Ca II K line that there was an area of brightening around the penumbra. This was not seen in all developed spots but was measured at around 10% brighter than the surrounding background. One theory put forward to explaining this phenomenon is that the missing energy due to suppression of convective energy transport by underlying magnetic fields in the spot shows as a bright ring around the penumbrae. Possibly around 10% of the missing energy from these regions is emitted by this ring (Bhatnager, A. 2005 p190). This would prove a good study area for the amateur astronomer with good available resolution to assess how many penumbra show this phenomenon and how bright the region is.
CaK features by Alexandra Hart, on Flickr
Alexandra
I know some of you this month have shown this phenomena is starting to happen already around some spot groups. Let's have a good look at how often this occurs. It doesn't happen around every spot, is it a certain size, a type of group structure, how often?
It can be seen around the penumbra particularly prominent in CaK but also witnessed in white light, and as someone showed recently in the far wings of hydrogen alpha too. Let's take a good look this month.
Here is an extract from an article I wrote way back in (a very long time ago anyway) for more information:
Bright Ring
The Bright Ring was first observed by Waldmeier in 1939 and later again by Das and Ramanathan (1953) and more recently by Rast et al. 1999. It was observed that in violet and blue light, particularly in the Ca II K line that there was an area of brightening around the penumbra. This was not seen in all developed spots but was measured at around 10% brighter than the surrounding background. One theory put forward to explaining this phenomenon is that the missing energy due to suppression of convective energy transport by underlying magnetic fields in the spot shows as a bright ring around the penumbrae. Possibly around 10% of the missing energy from these regions is emitted by this ring (Bhatnager, A. 2005 p190). This would prove a good study area for the amateur astronomer with good available resolution to assess how many penumbra show this phenomenon and how bright the region is.
CaK features by Alexandra Hart, on Flickr
Alexandra
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Re: November Solar Challenge
That’s a great challenge, Alexandra.
Stu.
Stu.
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Re: November Solar Challenge
This will be cool to see! I don't have a Ca setup, but I love seeing everyone's images and learning about it. This will be a good challenge to follow!
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Re: November Solar Challenge
3rd November, a challenge to see the sun at all just now with rain and clouds. I wonder if this image has a bright ring or not?
Best
Robert
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1103 2021-11-03-1053_1-U-L_lapl4_ap625 by Robert Arnold, on Flickr
Best
Robert
ED80 Lunt CaK B600
1103 2021-11-03-1053_1-U-L_lapl4_ap625 by Robert Arnold, on Flickr
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Re: November Solar Challenge
Hi Alexandra,
Here's AR12893 on my 125mm Tecnosky with 5xPM. This was really pushing things given the wobbly seeing this morning.
20211104_CaK_AR2893_x5 by Stuart Green, on Flickr
The bright ring can be seen although the image resolution isn't ideal and processing was at its limit.
Stu.
Here's AR12893 on my 125mm Tecnosky with 5xPM. This was really pushing things given the wobbly seeing this morning.
20211104_CaK_AR2893_x5 by Stuart Green, on Flickr
The bright ring can be seen although the image resolution isn't ideal and processing was at its limit.
Stu.
H-alpha, WL and Ca II K imaging kit for various image scales.
Fluxgate Magnetometers (1s and 150s Cadence).
Radio meteor detector.
More images at http://www.flickr.com/photos/solarcarbon60/
Fluxgate Magnetometers (1s and 150s Cadence).
Radio meteor detector.
More images at http://www.flickr.com/photos/solarcarbon60/
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Re: November Solar Challenge
Beautiful!!!
I'm thinking I need to somehow chart this data. Still trying to work out how to measure size.
Alexandra
I'm thinking I need to somehow chart this data. Still trying to work out how to measure size.
Alexandra
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Re: November Solar Challenge
I’ll have to look for this in white light. I don’t think I have ever noticed it. I may possibly have confused it for a bright inner zone of faculae though.
In Ha stills could it be confused for a ring of EBs around a spot? I did pick up a ring of bright points in a still image I took back during the summer. Animations would easily tell the difference since EBs flicker in them.
Would a 430nm filter make it easier to see?
James
In Ha stills could it be confused for a ring of EBs around a spot? I did pick up a ring of bright points in a still image I took back during the summer. Animations would easily tell the difference since EBs flicker in them.
Would a 430nm filter make it easier to see?
James
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Re: November Solar Challenge
True that!!
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Re: November Solar Challenge
This SDO AIA1600 image reflects well what Stuart's CaK image shows. The bright ring around the spot is easily visible.
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Re: November Solar Challenge
Thank you for stimulating me to, albeit superficially, to look into the challenge. It seems, at least to me, that the characterisation of this phenomenon in the literature as a 'bright ring' may be a bit misleading. Rast MP et al ( Sunspot bright rings: Evidence from case studies, The Astrophysical Journal 557, 864-869, 2001 ) using high resolution photometric scanning and polarimetry conclude that the rings are only about 0.5-1% brighter in the red and blue continuum than the surrounding photosphere and are not dependent on the presence of bright hot flux tubes near the sunspot as seen in Stu's CaK image or in the SDO 160A AIA image posted by James. I would be interested to know how we can can usefully contribute to this area of research.
John
John
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Re: November Solar Challenge
John, it is always good to keep your eyes open, what we are best at is observation. We cannot do temperature measurements or other deep and scientific things etc. The literature is quite vague and the brightness seems to vary from less than 1% to 10%. It also varies by colour and description. In WL it is seen as a smudgy whiter granulation which is vaguely brighter than the surrounding granulation. So it almost looks like a bright Halo. I bet with a 420nm filter this may be enhanced? maybe someone could try?
There are often associations between WL, CaK and Halpha as they show similar structures but at different heights and in a different way. The professionals don't seem to look at this much.
This is where we excel, if many people can make different observations of the one spot in multiple lines we can compare the features and look for patterns. Maybe folks can use their Magnesium, Sodium filters or even an SHG and look at different ones like Helium with the traditional 3 wavelengths. Can we see any associated patterns, how large does the spot need to be to have a ring like structure in any form?
If folks can post as many pictures on here as they can, in as many wavelengths, we might start to see a pattern. We can all have some fun At the end of the month we can count how many spots had a ring like structure and maybe calculate the size. If we have multiple wavelengths we can look for associations by thinking outside the box. We are not constrained like the professionals, we can have fun it is good to learn new things.
Alexandra
There are often associations between WL, CaK and Halpha as they show similar structures but at different heights and in a different way. The professionals don't seem to look at this much.
This is where we excel, if many people can make different observations of the one spot in multiple lines we can compare the features and look for patterns. Maybe folks can use their Magnesium, Sodium filters or even an SHG and look at different ones like Helium with the traditional 3 wavelengths. Can we see any associated patterns, how large does the spot need to be to have a ring like structure in any form?
If folks can post as many pictures on here as they can, in as many wavelengths, we might start to see a pattern. We can all have some fun At the end of the month we can count how many spots had a ring like structure and maybe calculate the size. If we have multiple wavelengths we can look for associations by thinking outside the box. We are not constrained like the professionals, we can have fun it is good to learn new things.
Alexandra
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Re: November Solar Challenge
Are their any processing techniques to emphasize the bright rings in WL?
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Re: November Solar Challenge
Great pics everyone!
I'm with Robert, I think my November challenge will be just for the sun to come out!
A 430nm filter will increase optical resolution of scope compared to using that scope with a filter of longer wavelength, but, seeing needs to support the shorter wavelength...
I'm with Robert, I think my November challenge will be just for the sun to come out!
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Re: November Solar Challenge
Stuart shows some excellent examples in WL here viewtopic.php?f=4&t=33835
Maybe he could comment on Alan's question?
Alexandra
Maybe he could comment on Alan's question?
Alexandra
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Re: November Solar Challenge
Hi Alexandra,
Here's AR12887 captured at 430 nm using a filtered Lacerta wedge. I doubt this is a linear image given the amount of manipulation we generally do with our images, so contrast differences will have been boosted, but it does show a brighter halo around the penumbra, if this is helpful.
20211030_WL_AR2887 by Stuart Green, on Flickr
Stu.
Here's AR12887 captured at 430 nm using a filtered Lacerta wedge. I doubt this is a linear image given the amount of manipulation we generally do with our images, so contrast differences will have been boosted, but it does show a brighter halo around the penumbra, if this is helpful.
20211030_WL_AR2887 by Stuart Green, on Flickr
Stu.
H-alpha, WL and Ca II K imaging kit for various image scales.
Fluxgate Magnetometers (1s and 150s Cadence).
Radio meteor detector.
More images at http://www.flickr.com/photos/solarcarbon60/
Fluxgate Magnetometers (1s and 150s Cadence).
Radio meteor detector.
More images at http://www.flickr.com/photos/solarcarbon60/
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Re: November Solar Challenge
Hi Alan,torsinadoc wrote: ↑Mon Nov 08, 2021 8:01 pm Are their any processing techniques to emphasize the bright rings in WL?
I image at 430nm using a Lacerta wedge (modified, of course, by removing the safety neutral density filter, so it is NOT for visual use). The ND filter unscrews with the housing and can be replaced with other 1.25mm filters of choice. I also add an IR/UV filter on the nose of the wedge; again all standard 1.25 mm screw fittings. The advantage is resolution, as Mark has eluded to, and image brightness. I took the image shown in my previous post at 50 micro seconds per frame (SER video), which is close to the fasted shutter speed possible with Genika Astro. Sometimes (during summer with a brighter sun) I have to attenuate the brightness using a polarising filter. The point is that it helps freeze the tough seeing conditions we generally have to work with. 430 nm also enhances the contrast naturally, helping faculae to stand out against the background, for example.
This setup shows a faint halo around some sunspots, which can be contrast enhanced during processing.
Hope this helps.
Stu.
H-alpha, WL and Ca II K imaging kit for various image scales.
Fluxgate Magnetometers (1s and 150s Cadence).
Radio meteor detector.
More images at http://www.flickr.com/photos/solarcarbon60/
Fluxgate Magnetometers (1s and 150s Cadence).
Radio meteor detector.
More images at http://www.flickr.com/photos/solarcarbon60/
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Re: November Solar Challenge
Its fairly faint but I see it Stu!
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Re: November Solar Challenge
Congratulations Stu, your image does indeed appear to show a faint ring around the large sunspot. The radius of the ring is consistent with the reports of Rast and co workers in the references cited earlier. It is difficult to directly compare your image with those shown by Rast et al because of the different wavelength (409 nm), exposure and processing steps employed by them.
John
John
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Re: November Solar Challenge
10th November midday.
Another challenge to catch the sun between streaming wet clouds. 3 spots for the collection
ED100 f900mm Lunt B600 CaK module. PGR Chameleon
Robert
1110 2021-11-10-1213_9-U-L_lapl4_ap239 by Robert Arnold, on Flickr
1110 2021-11-10-1213_5-U-L_lapl4_ap478 by Robert Arnold, on Flickr
1110 2021-11-10-1210_0-U-L_lapl4_ap940 by Robert Arnold, on Flickr
Another challenge to catch the sun between streaming wet clouds. 3 spots for the collection
ED100 f900mm Lunt B600 CaK module. PGR Chameleon
Robert
1110 2021-11-10-1213_9-U-L_lapl4_ap239 by Robert Arnold, on Flickr
1110 2021-11-10-1213_5-U-L_lapl4_ap478 by Robert Arnold, on Flickr
1110 2021-11-10-1210_0-U-L_lapl4_ap940 by Robert Arnold, on Flickr
images and animations http://tinyurl.com/h5bgoso
2024 images https://www.flickr.com/photos/69734017@ ... 0313830045
2023 images https://www.flickr.com/photos/69734017@ ... 0304905278
ED80. ED100. Celestron-150mm-PST mod. C8 edge. ES127
LS60PT-LS60F-B1200. B600-Cak. PGR-Ch3-IMX265
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2023 images https://www.flickr.com/photos/69734017@ ... 0304905278
ED80. ED100. Celestron-150mm-PST mod. C8 edge. ES127
LS60PT-LS60F-B1200. B600-Cak. PGR-Ch3-IMX265
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Re: November Solar Challenge
Nice job Robert!
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Re: November Solar Challenge
Nice captures Robert, my November challenge is to see the sun still
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Re: November Solar Challenge
Very well done Robert and shows how well the BF600 and your scope can perform so well in these poor conditions.
Great colouring too.
Thanks for sharing
Terry
Great colouring too.
Thanks for sharing
Terry
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Re: November Solar Challenge
It looks like the Lunt CaK modules are no longer available from Lunt. Would the Baader K-line filter work for viewing/imaging the Sun on a monitor and aid in detecting the bright ring around a sunspot visually? I know it cannot fully see CaK features but faculae may be more easily seen, hence the ring should be too.
Of course the CaK Quark is still available.
James
P.S. I later found the CaK module by Lunt. It's still there but has went up a lot in cost. The B600 costs about what a DayStar Quark does. Someone here recently mentioned something about Lunt maybe discontinuing them in the near future like Coronado has already done.
https://luntsolarsystems.com/product/lu ... k-modules/
Of course the CaK Quark is still available.
James
P.S. I later found the CaK module by Lunt. It's still there but has went up a lot in cost. The B600 costs about what a DayStar Quark does. Someone here recently mentioned something about Lunt maybe discontinuing them in the near future like Coronado has already done.
https://luntsolarsystems.com/product/lu ... k-modules/
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Meade Coronado SolarMax II 60 DS
Meade Coronado SolarMax II 90 DS
Meade Coronado AZS Alt/Az Mount
Astro-Tech AT72EDII with Altair solar wedge
Celestron NexStar 102GT with Altair solar wedge
Losmandy AZ8 Alt/Az Mount
Sky-Watcher AZGTI Alt-Az GoTo mount
Cameras: ZWO ASI178MM, PGR Grasshopper, PGR Flea
Lunt, Coronado, TeleVue, Orion and Meade eyepieces
Visual Observer
" Way more fun to see it! "
Orion 70mm Solar Telescope
Celestron AstroMaster Alt/Az Mount
Meade Coronado SolarMax II 60 DS
Meade Coronado SolarMax II 90 DS
Meade Coronado AZS Alt/Az Mount
Astro-Tech AT72EDII with Altair solar wedge
Celestron NexStar 102GT with Altair solar wedge
Losmandy AZ8 Alt/Az Mount
Sky-Watcher AZGTI Alt-Az GoTo mount
Cameras: ZWO ASI178MM, PGR Grasshopper, PGR Flea
Lunt, Coronado, TeleVue, Orion and Meade eyepieces
Visual Observer
" Way more fun to see it! "
- Montana
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Re: November Solar Challenge
You can certainly do so James, it will enhance the faculae into the centre of the disc just like a Baader continuum filter enhances the granulation, but don't expect amazing CaK views, you will struggle to see the super granulation.
Alexandra
Alexandra
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Re: November Solar Challenge
It’s a “ faculae filter “. I would find it still useful. I have a 430nm G band filter that I need to use more as well. The 540 gets a lot of use.
Lunt 8x32 SUNoculars
Orion 70mm Solar Telescope
Celestron AstroMaster Alt/Az Mount
Meade Coronado SolarMax II 60 DS
Meade Coronado SolarMax II 90 DS
Meade Coronado AZS Alt/Az Mount
Astro-Tech AT72EDII with Altair solar wedge
Celestron NexStar 102GT with Altair solar wedge
Losmandy AZ8 Alt/Az Mount
Sky-Watcher AZGTI Alt-Az GoTo mount
Cameras: ZWO ASI178MM, PGR Grasshopper, PGR Flea
Lunt, Coronado, TeleVue, Orion and Meade eyepieces
Visual Observer
" Way more fun to see it! "
Orion 70mm Solar Telescope
Celestron AstroMaster Alt/Az Mount
Meade Coronado SolarMax II 60 DS
Meade Coronado SolarMax II 90 DS
Meade Coronado AZS Alt/Az Mount
Astro-Tech AT72EDII with Altair solar wedge
Celestron NexStar 102GT with Altair solar wedge
Losmandy AZ8 Alt/Az Mount
Sky-Watcher AZGTI Alt-Az GoTo mount
Cameras: ZWO ASI178MM, PGR Grasshopper, PGR Flea
Lunt, Coronado, TeleVue, Orion and Meade eyepieces
Visual Observer
" Way more fun to see it! "
- DeepSolar64
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Re: November Solar Challenge
Today I picked out a faint ring around the double umbraed spot of AR12894. It was hard to see and I would have never seen it if I would have not been looking for it. Even in the SDO images it does not stand out.
It's hard to tell what is the ring and what is the faculae.
I viewed it at 83x using my Celestron 102 refractor with the Altair wedge and Baader 540nm filter. Higher magnification would have been useful if the seeing would have allowed it.
It's hard to tell what is the ring and what is the faculae.
I viewed it at 83x using my Celestron 102 refractor with the Altair wedge and Baader 540nm filter. Higher magnification would have been useful if the seeing would have allowed it.
Lunt 8x32 SUNoculars
Orion 70mm Solar Telescope
Celestron AstroMaster Alt/Az Mount
Meade Coronado SolarMax II 60 DS
Meade Coronado SolarMax II 90 DS
Meade Coronado AZS Alt/Az Mount
Astro-Tech AT72EDII with Altair solar wedge
Celestron NexStar 102GT with Altair solar wedge
Losmandy AZ8 Alt/Az Mount
Sky-Watcher AZGTI Alt-Az GoTo mount
Cameras: ZWO ASI178MM, PGR Grasshopper, PGR Flea
Lunt, Coronado, TeleVue, Orion and Meade eyepieces
Visual Observer
" Way more fun to see it! "
Orion 70mm Solar Telescope
Celestron AstroMaster Alt/Az Mount
Meade Coronado SolarMax II 60 DS
Meade Coronado SolarMax II 90 DS
Meade Coronado AZS Alt/Az Mount
Astro-Tech AT72EDII with Altair solar wedge
Celestron NexStar 102GT with Altair solar wedge
Losmandy AZ8 Alt/Az Mount
Sky-Watcher AZGTI Alt-Az GoTo mount
Cameras: ZWO ASI178MM, PGR Grasshopper, PGR Flea
Lunt, Coronado, TeleVue, Orion and Meade eyepieces
Visual Observer
" Way more fun to see it! "
- DeepSolar64
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Re: November Solar Challenge
But is it the ring at all or just faculae?
Lunt 8x32 SUNoculars
Orion 70mm Solar Telescope
Celestron AstroMaster Alt/Az Mount
Meade Coronado SolarMax II 60 DS
Meade Coronado SolarMax II 90 DS
Meade Coronado AZS Alt/Az Mount
Astro-Tech AT72EDII with Altair solar wedge
Celestron NexStar 102GT with Altair solar wedge
Losmandy AZ8 Alt/Az Mount
Sky-Watcher AZGTI Alt-Az GoTo mount
Cameras: ZWO ASI178MM, PGR Grasshopper, PGR Flea
Lunt, Coronado, TeleVue, Orion and Meade eyepieces
Visual Observer
" Way more fun to see it! "
Orion 70mm Solar Telescope
Celestron AstroMaster Alt/Az Mount
Meade Coronado SolarMax II 60 DS
Meade Coronado SolarMax II 90 DS
Meade Coronado AZS Alt/Az Mount
Astro-Tech AT72EDII with Altair solar wedge
Celestron NexStar 102GT with Altair solar wedge
Losmandy AZ8 Alt/Az Mount
Sky-Watcher AZGTI Alt-Az GoTo mount
Cameras: ZWO ASI178MM, PGR Grasshopper, PGR Flea
Lunt, Coronado, TeleVue, Orion and Meade eyepieces
Visual Observer
" Way more fun to see it! "
- Montana
- Librarian
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Re: November Solar Challenge
Who knows if the ring is associated with faculae? just a height variable, that is the question there is plenty for us to study and observe.
Alexandra
Alexandra
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Re: November Solar Challenge
So true that!!
Lunt 8x32 SUNoculars
Orion 70mm Solar Telescope
Celestron AstroMaster Alt/Az Mount
Meade Coronado SolarMax II 60 DS
Meade Coronado SolarMax II 90 DS
Meade Coronado AZS Alt/Az Mount
Astro-Tech AT72EDII with Altair solar wedge
Celestron NexStar 102GT with Altair solar wedge
Losmandy AZ8 Alt/Az Mount
Sky-Watcher AZGTI Alt-Az GoTo mount
Cameras: ZWO ASI178MM, PGR Grasshopper, PGR Flea
Lunt, Coronado, TeleVue, Orion and Meade eyepieces
Visual Observer
" Way more fun to see it! "
Orion 70mm Solar Telescope
Celestron AstroMaster Alt/Az Mount
Meade Coronado SolarMax II 60 DS
Meade Coronado SolarMax II 90 DS
Meade Coronado AZS Alt/Az Mount
Astro-Tech AT72EDII with Altair solar wedge
Celestron NexStar 102GT with Altair solar wedge
Losmandy AZ8 Alt/Az Mount
Sky-Watcher AZGTI Alt-Az GoTo mount
Cameras: ZWO ASI178MM, PGR Grasshopper, PGR Flea
Lunt, Coronado, TeleVue, Orion and Meade eyepieces
Visual Observer
" Way more fun to see it! "