WL with Continuum.filter... to wedge or not t wedge

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WL with Continuum.filter... to wedge or not t wedge

Post by TareqPhoto »

Hi again,

I want to ask, if i want to image the sun in WL with continuum filter, do i need a wedge or not if i use the frontal solar film filter on the scope?


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Re: WL with Continuum.filter... to wedge or not t wedge

Post by Montana »

If you use Baader solar film ND5 or ND3.8 on the objective side of the telescope then you do not need a wedge as well. The Baader solar film is the white light filter. If you use a wedge (also a white light filter) then you don't need the film on the front as well. If you used both together you would soon find out that you can't see anything at all :)

Baader solar film on the front objective, then at the rear use a Baader Continuum filter and also a UV/IR cut filter if you have one, then the camera.
or
White light wedge on the rear, then a Continuum/UV/IR cut, then camera.
Alexandra


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Re: WL with Continuum.filter... to wedge or not t wedge

Post by TareqPhoto »

Montana wrote: Thu Apr 07, 2022 5:35 pm If you use Baader solar film ND5 or ND3.8 on the objective side of the telescope then you do not need a wedge as well. The Baader solar film is the white light filter. If you use a wedge (also a white light filter) then you don't need the film on the front as well. If you used both together you would soon find out that you can't see anything at all :)

Baader solar film on the front objective, then at the rear use a Baader Continuum filter and also a UV/IR cut filter if you have one, then the camera.
or
White light wedge on the rear, then a Continuum/UV/IR cut, then camera.
Alexandra
Thank you Alexandra,

I don't understand the usage of UV/IR cut filter once you use either the Baader solar film in front or Wedge in the back and then using Baader Continuum filter, i mean why two filters? Does it really matter that much adding UV/IR cut filter to ensure that much safety? Won't adding more filters will cause the results to be less sharp or less contrast somehow?

Ok, i was thinking about using Baader solar film in front because i wanted to use my 180mm [7"] F/15 Maksutov scope which is almost a reflector, so does the wedge really be safe with this scope instead of the frontal Baader [or any brand] solar film? with the wedge i will be sure i can use it with any scope, while with Baader solar film i have to buy many for each scope, it depends if i should buy the Baader film one, if not then a cheaper solar film could be cheaper for several scopes than Baader Wedge, because i have 2" Continuum filter, and with another scopes less than F/10 or faster i was thinking about using Barlow or Tele Vue Powermte.

Tareq


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Re: WL with Continuum.filter... to wedge or not t wedge

Post by Montana »

You should only use a wedge with a refactor.

Reflectors, SCTs etc all have secondary mirrors which can be heated and damaged before you. Therefore, use Baader solar film over the front first. Here is a pic of my C11
https://www.flickr.com/photos/alexandra ... 535593245/
It is certainly much cheaper to buy film.

A UV/IR cut filter is not intended as a safety measure for you, but it is because the Baader solar film and Continuum filter do not block very far IR and a camera can pick this up resulting in bad focused imaged. Using the UV/IR filter gets rid of this stray out of focus light and sharpens the images. I'm not sure but I think Baader have cleaned up their modern Continuum filters to cut this region, so it depends on how old your filter is. If you have a UV/IR cut filter already it doesn't hurt to try with or without.

Alexandra


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Re: WL with Continuum.filter... to wedge or not t wedge

Post by TareqPhoto »

Montana wrote: Fri Apr 08, 2022 7:03 am You should only use a wedge with a refactor.

Reflectors, SCTs etc all have secondary mirrors which can be heated and damaged before you. Therefore, use Baader solar film over the front first. Here is a pic of my C11
https://www.flickr.com/photos/alexandra ... 535593245/
It is certainly much cheaper to buy film.

A UV/IR cut filter is not intended as a safety measure for you, but it is because the Baader solar film and Continuum filter do not block very far IR and a camera can pick this up resulting in bad focused imaged. Using the UV/IR filter gets rid of this stray out of focus light and sharpens the images. I'm not sure but I think Baader have cleaned up their modern Continuum filters to cut this region, so it depends on how old your filter is. If you have a UV/IR cut filter already it doesn't hurt to try with or without.

Alexandra
Excellent, perfect

Ok, so for now if i will use my Mak i better buy solar film filters, not sure if i have to buy a Baader brand itself, but i am sure all will say that they have the best high quality reliable filters, true, but that will cost more, and we are not 1000% that all other brands solar film filters are bad and not reliable, i heard about Thousand Oaks, not sure their prices, but if i will use my Mak 7" and maybe my Newt say 8" and 6" then buying three solar film from say Baader cold cost me almost close to the wedge i believe, and if i buy more film for another scopes that might cost me even more than the wedge which will be used with refractors anyway.

Now for that UV/IR cut filter, should i use it before the Continuum or after? I mean so i put it closer to the camera or closer to the telescope? And how can i place two 2" filters in the train?

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Re: WL with Continuum.filter... to wedge or not t wedge

Post by Montana »

My Baader UV/IR filter will only screw on one side of the Baader continuum filter, so I guess it is that side, the other side screws on the camera nose :)
Both are 1.25" filters.

My Baader wedge already has a Continuum filter installed inside the wedge, so for this I just screw the UV/IR filter on the nose of the camera.
Alexandra


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Re: WL with Continuum.filter... to wedge or not t wedge

Post by TareqPhoto »

Ok, but my filters are 2", different story, i will see how can i place/mount both filter somewhere, thank you very much Alexandra!

Tareq


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Re: WL with Continuum.filter... to wedge or not t wedge

Post by GreatAttractor »

Montana wrote: Fri Apr 08, 2022 7:03 am A UV/IR cut filter is not intended as a safety measure for you, but it is because the Baader solar film and Continuum filter do not block very far IR and a camera can pick this up resulting in bad focused imaged.
Note that starting around 2015 (or earlier?), newer Solar Continuum filter does block IR; see this thread on Cloudy Nights and this one on our forum.


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Re: WL with Continuum.filter... to wedge or not t wedge

Post by TareqPhoto »

GreatAttractor wrote: Fri Apr 08, 2022 9:36 pm
Montana wrote: Fri Apr 08, 2022 7:03 am A UV/IR cut filter is not intended as a safety measure for you, but it is because the Baader solar film and Continuum filter do not block very far IR and a camera can pick this up resulting in bad focused imaged.
Note that starting around 2015 (or earlier?), newer Solar Continuum filter does block IR; see this thread on Cloudy Nights and this one on our forum.
I started in 2017 in general, and i think i bought my Continuum filter back in 2019 not sure, so i assume it is the one with block feature, because from the band spectrum, it only capture at about the green region wavelength, so that is definitely no IR no UV not even Ha or OIII.


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Re: WL with Continuum.filter... to wedge or not t wedge

Post by marktownley »

I need to get a continuum filter.


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Re: WL with Continuum.filter... to wedge or not t wedge

Post by TareqPhoto »

marktownley wrote: Sat Apr 09, 2022 5:04 am I need to get a continuum filter.
Don't tell me you don't have one or used/tested one before :lol:


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Re: WL with Continuum.filter... to wedge or not t wedge

Post by marktownley »

TareqPhoto wrote: Sat Apr 09, 2022 6:38 am
marktownley wrote: Sat Apr 09, 2022 5:04 am I need to get a continuum filter.
Don't tell me you don't have one or used/tested one before :lol:
I do have one but I dropped it a while ago and it has a chip in the glass.


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Re: WL with Continuum.filter... to wedge or not t wedge

Post by TareqPhoto »

marktownley wrote: Sat Apr 09, 2022 6:52 am
TareqPhoto wrote: Sat Apr 09, 2022 6:38 am
marktownley wrote: Sat Apr 09, 2022 5:04 am I need to get a continuum filter.
Don't tell me you don't have one or used/tested one before :lol:
I do have one but I dropped it a while ago and it has a chip in the glass.
:shock: :o :o :o


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Re: WL with Continuum.filter... to wedge or not t wedge

Post by TareqPhoto »

Ok, i did order a solar film filter to be used on my Mak, very cheap one, i can't judge about the quality, but i can't just order something so expensive right now even for $100-300 it is too much for me due to i have so many other things i have to pay for, so will it be safe to use that filter when i get it with the Mak or you always believe that the cheap one means so crap and it will damage my setup?

A new UV/IR cut i ordered of SVBony is already delivered to me a while ago [about 5 days or 1 week maybe], i ordered the 2" size, so now i have to find which way i can place and mount two 2" filters for WL, both filters are 2".


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Re: WL with Continuum.filter... to wedge or not t wedge

Post by JochenM »

You should be fine. Generally speaking, no chances are taken with the safety of these types of filters (for obvious reasons).

Which film did you get exactly? Keep in mind that that if it's your standard premounted stuff, it's likely ND 5.0 film (which is unsuitable for imaging, just for visual use).


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Re: WL with Continuum.filter... to wedge or not t wedge

Post by TareqPhoto »

JochenM wrote: Sun Apr 10, 2022 4:19 am You should be fine. Generally speaking, no chances are taken with the safety of these types of filters (for obvious reasons).

Which film did you get exactly? Keep in mind that that if it's your standard premounted stuff, it's likely ND 5.0 film (which is unsuitable for imaging, just for visual use).
This is the one i ordered, bigger size so i can mount it with screws on my scope.

https://www.aliexpress.com/item/4000812 ... 1802Ql8r1u

I think it is ND 5.0 as you said, but why it is not suitable for imaging? I will use UV/IR cut filter and also Continuum filter with it, is there something wrong?


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Re: WL with Continuum.filter... to wedge or not t wedge

Post by JochenM »

ND 5.0 means that only 1/100000'th of the incoming light gets transmitted (vs 1/6310'th for an ND 3.8 filter), resulting in a very dark image. As a result, you would need to crank up the exposure time quite significantly in order to get an image (which with volatile daytime seeing will equate to poor results).


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Re: WL with Continuum.filter... to wedge or not t wedge

Post by TareqPhoto »

JochenM wrote: Sun Apr 10, 2022 7:44 am ND 5.0 means that only 1/100000'th of the incoming light gets transmitted (vs 1/6310'th for an ND 3.8 filter), resulting in a very dark image. As a result, you would need to crank up the exposure time quite significantly in order to get an image (which with volatile daytime seeing will equate to poor results).
I see, so that is the only issue then?

Ok, i will practice with this until i can afford a less killing brightness ND filter, i bought it cheap as i didn't know what to expect, i see a lot of tools or gear here and i buy the cheaper options of them.


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