Getting Setup- Missing some parts, seeking suggestions

Use this section to discuss "standard" Baader/Coronado/ Lunt SolarView/ Daystar, etc… filters, cameras and scopes. No mods, just questions/ answers and reviews.
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Valdraz
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Getting Setup- Missing some parts, seeking suggestions

Post by Valdraz »

Hello

I just discovered this forum which means I unfortunately already started shopping so some of my parts are locked in.

Trying to get my refractor setup for occasional solar use, for imaging and possibly the occasional visual session. The main advantage of not swapping scopes for me is really just convenience.

I've got the following
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Stellarvue "SVX130T" 130mm apo triplet

Apollo-M MAX USB3.0 Mono Camera (IMX432) (this shop led me to here!)
Altair 130mm Aperture D-ERF MonoBand Ha Solar Pre-Filter - with Cell

I own a televue powermate 2.5, not sure if it is useful.
---------------------------------------

I'm totally undecided on quark vs lunt etc- Have been searching around but I'm really not sure what is best. Been looking at quarks the most but the whole internet seems to be just stories of them not doing the job.

I don't understand if I should be trying to fit this all after my flattener or without it. With the SFFX2 flattner i've got 80mm backfocus to fill starting at m69 threads.


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Re: Getting Setup- Missing some parts, seeking suggestions

Post by Montana »

A very warm and sunny welcome Valdraz :hamster:

We probably need a bit more information, it looks like you have a lovely refractor and a front mounted ERF. Have you ever tried to do any solar imaging before, like white light with a Herschel wedge or some Baader Astro Solar film? The solar film is very cheap and great way to start and get a feel for solar imaging. It will help you practice to see what your seeing conditions are like where you want to view, get to know whether you are interested in full disc imaging or high resolution. You can see whether your 2.5x powermate is not enough or too much power in your conditions. It will also give you the chance to get the most out of the Apollo max.

Once you have answered all these questions, you will then probably have a good idea whether you want to go Quark or Lunt. It is a big investment so I recommend you try white light to begin with. The Lunt will give you most surface contrast and good full discs and great for visual too, the Quark is more designed for high resolution work. However, if you are not interested in one or the other, or the seeing doesn't support the latter then you instantly will know what you need. Unfortunately in solar we have to have various set ups to suit various requirements.

I hope this helps a bit. It is best to slow down and start from the beginning.
I have no idea about the flattener, I have never used one in solar, isn't that for deep sky imaging?

Alexandra


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Re: Getting Setup- Missing some parts, seeking suggestions

Post by marktownley »

Welcome to the forum! You don't need to use your flattener with solar.


Image
http://brierleyhillsolar.blogspot.co.uk/
Solar images, a collection of all the most up to date live solar data on the web, imaging & processing tutorials - please take a look!
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Re: Getting Setup- Missing some parts, seeking suggestions

Post by Bob Yoesle »

Honestly, stating your interest is for using the telescope for "occasional solar" use and imaging indicates you're going down a rabbit hole from looking at "pretty pictures" and not really knowing what's involved. The fact you want to engage in imaging without any real observational experience is telling, and the image-centric solar forums don't help. Alexandra's advice is spot on.

The best solar H alpha filter system for your telescope would be a single or double stacked Lunt or Solar Scope 100 mm front mounted filter system - these offer best contrast uniformity and a reasonable FL (your native f7 > 910 mm). They cost $$$$ or $$$$$$.

But since you've already purchased the DERF, I personally would avoid the Quark. I'd give serious consideration to a better mica filter system, such as the Solar Spectrum Suna.

For all the mica filters systems, f30-f40 is the ideal to get the passband performance (contrast) the filter is capable of having. Your telescope is f7, so your 2.5 x Powermate is not anywhere ideal - unless you stop down your aperture to 75 mm and use it with the Suna (which would be a good way to go). You would not use the Powermate for the Quark. Same with the field flattener as Mark states - the whole disc of the Sun is only 30 arc-minutes, and at your scope's and Quark/Suna 4 x telecentric EFLs, would be only 10 arc minutes at the most.

With the Quarks built-in 4.2 x telecentric, you'll have an EFL of 3.82 meters, and need above average daytime seeing to utilize this effectively. Adding a high-quality focal reducer after the filter will likely be mandatory.

With the Suna, you'll need a 4X telecentric (Baader TZ4) to achieve f28, which is a bare minimum. Once again you'll need good daytime seeing to realize the potential of the system at such long EFLs, and the added focal reducer.

Alexandra is right-on that starting out with basic white light observing and imaging is the way to go.

The next step into H alpha would best be served with a 60 - 80 mm Lunt modular scope (or used dedicated scope). You could also use a Lunt 60 mm filter at the objective with a B1200 blocking filter. This will give you good full-disc viewing and imaging, and moderate close-up viewing and imaging. With these, you'll be able to hone your observing and imaging skills.

Your last endeavor should be what you're considering as your first. The longer EFL mica filter systems are the more difficult to implement and optimize - and again only if your local daytime seeing will support it. Most experienced solar observers and imagers end up with the two scope & filter solution for H alpha - the 60-80 mm front or internal etalon scope for most days, and the high-power focuser mica filter for the rare times daytime seeing allows for it.

Before you do anything else, get yourself Jamey Jenkins Solar Field Guide. Once you've digested it and started into solar observing, get Christian Viladrich's Solar Astronomy Handbook for the most in-depth solar information and guidance available.

Good luck!

Bob


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Re: Getting Setup- Missing some parts, seeking suggestions

Post by Valdraz »

Hello,

I Just noticed I'd had some replies. Thank you for that. Still reading through all this.

This telescope has been on 100% imaging duty and has never even had an eyepiece attached. I don't want to say I'd never do visual because I'd like to experience direct observation of surface details but it would probably take me some time to get around to trying, I take pictures. I've done a bit of white light photography of the sun-usually for some event but want something with contrast. Zoomed in close, 1/3 of sun is OK and seeing is not something I can control- on average it is not Ideal here though. Lucky imaging is the plan.

I'm not overly concerned with complexity or difficulty, more concerned with getting parts that will even do the job. Its been difficult to find lunt parts that were not a whole scope.

Costly is expected, part of why I'm doing this is return of investment. My pier/mount/scope/filters exceed a reasonably nice car at this point- makes me want to use it on days where the nights will be cloudy. I understand that this is not specifically as ideal as a dedicated scope may be. I know I'm just more likely to use this often if I put on the D-ERF and swap imaging trains during the day without having to change out the optics. Hoping to keep this within some kind of reason though.

I'll look into Suna- I've not seen that option yet. Thank you for the information on the Baader part. Seems like I have some reading to do. Just having the correct parts to search for is helpful.

are there small reducers to place after something like a tz-4 or tz3 (the page said consider the 3) my only reducer is the enormous SFFR.72

I'm a little worried about initial focusing through all of this- I've got limited travel due to a moonlite nightcrawler. I've have plenty of spacers to get longer though.

When people stop down for solar(without magnifying) are they doing it at the front of the scope with a circle cut in some blocking material?

Some recent non solar images just for the heck of it.
https://i.redd.it/m80aueiqhmd91.jpg
https://i.redd.it/v89t2uu52v991.jpg


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Re: Getting Setup- Missing some parts, seeking suggestions

Post by Montana »

It looks like a SolarSpectrum is probably what you are more inclined towards :)

Yes, stopping down with a aperture mask (bit of cardboard at the front).

Alexandra


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Re: Getting Setup- Missing some parts, seeking suggestions

Post by Valdraz »

Went with a solar observer, 6 months out the.


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Re: Getting Setup- Missing some parts, seeking suggestions

Post by galaxie427 »

Valdraz wrote: Sun Aug 07, 2022 9:39 pm Went with a solar observer, 6 months out the.
Excellent choice....congrats!


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