Is imaging the sun still within reach?

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Is imaging the sun still within reach?

Post by Rusted »

Detail, that most of us can only dream of!

But are we in an "arms race" with millionaires?

It seems that solar imagers must now go Double Stacked or go home.
Use much larger apertures.
Use larger, premium optics.
Afford unobtainable D-ERFs.
Use "collectable" vintage etalons.
Or image at high altitudes.
Own a private, mountainous island.
Preferably of limestone or white marble. :cool:
Or all of the above?

Do we have any amateur, balloon riding solar imagers in our midst?
Are tilting, solar tower telescopes shown in our stars?
That might actually be a valid way forward.
A couple of GRP flagpoles, some combine harvester twine...
and a large [quartz] optical flat should serve. ;)

The "modern" equivalent of the PST Mod is sorely needed.
Just to bring solar imaging back within reach of many more of us.
Or are we all in need of an affordable, off-the-shelf SHG?

Did I forget to mention advanced skills? :D


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Re: Is imaging the sun still within reach?

Post by Radon86 »

Rusted wrote: Fri Aug 12, 2022 5:10 am Detail, that most of us can only dream of!

But are we in an "arms race" with millionaires?

It seems that solar imagers must now go Double Stacked or go home.
Use much larger apertures.
Use larger, premium optics.
Afford unobtainable D-ERFs.
Use "collectable" vintage etalons.
Or image at high altitudes.
Own a private, mountainous island.
Preferably of limestone or white marble. :cool:
Or all of the above?


Do we have any amateur, balloon riding solar imagers in our midst?
Are tilting, solar tower telescopes shown in our stars?
That might actually be a valid way forward.
A couple of GRP flagpoles, some combine harvester twine...
and a large [quartz] optical flat should serve. ;)

The "modern" equivalent of the PST Mod is sorely needed.
Just to bring solar imaging back within reach of many more of us.
Or are we all in need of an affordable, off-the-shelf SHG?

Did I forget to mention advanced skills? :D
Hi Rusted,

I share your concerns.
I wish I had Elon Musk’s financial resources, so I can spend 150 million on a solar observatory. However, I do not feel inadequate with my limited outlay. Why, the sun is a ball of gas, so what we observe is an artifact. We can sharpen and apply Fourier equations but
is it real? The sun is gaseous/plasma and hard to imagine! People can spend 800 million dollars but is it real?

Magnus


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Re: Is imaging the sun still within reach?

Post by Montana »

:) you made me smile when I read this. Sometimes I get very despondent because I bought a lot of stuff that costs a lot of money and most of it doesn't work, mainly because I don't have a degree and PhD in telescope engineering and optical physics. Maybe you could add this to the magical list :) it will probably cost a lot of money to get them all working properly too and I will need that money to heat the house this winter and afford diesel to get to work instead.

I was discussing this with Nic last Sunday. My dream would be to win the lottery, buy a piece of land on the Isle of Man, build a solar observatory and guest house and it would be free for any solarchatter to use at any time. Sadly, I never win the lottery :(

An off the shelf SHG would be great too, so long as it came with instructions for those without a PhD in the said above :)
Alexandra


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Re: Is imaging the sun still within reach?

Post by ffellah »

Hi Chris: thank you for raising this issue. Solar imaging can be a competitive sport, but every time I log in I am reminded that fancy or expensive equipment is not the key to excellent solar photography. I see a number in the group that are able to achieve superb results with good, solid, maybe not superlative equipment but high capturing and processing skills.

I always keep in mind that.

Franco


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Re: Is imaging the sun still within reach?

Post by steveward53 »

All I need is a 4" Russian 'frac , a S/H Canon and a scrap of Baader film ... and of course predominantly glorious clear blue Suffolk sky ... :lol:

And I never see it as "a competitive sport" , for me it's a hobby , pure and simple , yes I could spend a wad of cash on bigger tubes , faster cameras , fancy get-ups of a number of descriptions but I'm not fussed to be honest.
Last edited by steveward53 on Fri Aug 12, 2022 1:55 pm, edited 1 time in total.


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Re: Is imaging the sun still within reach?

Post by gabrieli »

Hi. Rusted

Your comments hit very close to home for me and for many other people but not for all the points you list in
In the “arms race” analogy. I met some of the points you list to succeed but even there, that doesn’t guarantee great results for me.

Before opening Solarchat to look at some of the posts, I was thinking that I have been more excited this season waiting for new stuff to arrive than actually producing results. I’ve conditioned myself to equate getting new equipment to buying good results and good seeing. I know that’s awful.

When I saw the beautiful sunspot images images taken by Dennis with an Antlia 393nm Ca II filter, I bought one, ignoring the fact that imaging at short wavelengths is a bigger problem than at longer ones.

I can buy a lot of products and have this season but then find myself frustrated by poor seeing.

It’s not so much that I want results better than anyone else’s because realistically that won’t happen but just to improve my results from what I’ve done before and even there I feel frustrated.

Lou


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Re: Is imaging the sun still within reach?

Post by MAURITS »

Maybe a little off topic but for me is excellent seeing much better than excellent equipment with bad seeing.


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Re: Is imaging the sun still within reach?

Post by steveward53 »

MAURITS wrote: Fri Aug 12, 2022 2:41 pm Maybe a little off topic but for me is excellent seeing much better than excellent equipment with bad seeing.
That's the main reason I haven't squeezed the trigger on a Hydrogen-Alpha set-up.

The thought of spending thousands on even a modest rig and 'scope only to have it sitting unused due to the generally poor seeing here , or the frustration of not being able to get the best out of it just doesn't compute ... ;)

I'll just keep plugging away on my WL discs and be grateful for the few days of really good seeing here.


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Re: Is imaging the sun still within reach?

Post by DeepSolar64 »

Chris, all.

My setups are simple. Three of my four mounts are undriven and all are altazimuth and I still image with them though my images are crude compared with the best here. While I do have two doublestacked Coronados a lot can be done just with singlestack. And then there is white light with a simple small achro refractor which could occupy you a lifetime.

And your eyeball makes a good camera. I am first and foremost a visual observer.

Astronomy of any type can be as expensive or inexpensive as one wants it to be. Many of us get carried away by aperture fever, double stacking, expensive mounts and cameras etc. But is by no means required to learn and enjoy the Sun. Heck, these days one can do it without a telescope at all using online sources like GONG, SDO, KSO and SolarChat!!

And the Coronado PST is still being made and Lunt makes a 40 and 50mm Ha scope. All available singlestacked!!

👍🏻😁 James

P.S. I love everyone’s replies on this!!


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Re: Is imaging the sun still within reach?

Post by marktownley »

Interesting thread everyone!

There's no denying solar, being quite a specialist niche can be quite expensive, but I guess could say the same for nighttime too.

Certainly with scopes cheaper refractors often perform better than their triplet counterparts because we are imaging ultra narrowband.

For me (as others) my biggest constraint is the seeing, i've been down the aperture fever route and now just concentrate on doing the best I can with the conditions I have. For me, tweaking, developing and evoloving systems is all part of the enjoyment I get alongside the imaging and visual side.


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Re: Is imaging the sun still within reach?

Post by Rusted »

Thank you all for your thoughtful responses. :bow

I think it is fair to say that skill in capture and processing play a large part in successful imaging.
Larger instruments are inevitably at the mercy of the local seeing conditions.

Given that H-alpha is narrow band, then some allowance can be made for "budget" optics.
Those who can afford the best will migrate towards the finest available simply because they can.

Dedication and frequent imaging sessions will reward. With reliable results from repeated practice.
Those who post their images here most regularly are ample proof that success comes from experience.
The images they post are rarely of less than the very highest quality.

Thanks again,
Chris


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Re: Is imaging the sun still within reach?

Post by pupak »

There are three areas of solar photography. The first is the equipment and the second is the SW for processing and the third is the feeling and ability to process the material. The first two can be bought, the third one everyone has to honestly walk through.
It's not just about the money.


I do not look at the sky with the eyes of an astronomer, but of a person looking for the beauty of nature.
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Re: Is imaging the sun still within reach?

Post by DeepSolar64 »

Mark, your user name should have been “ Tinkerer “. ;-)


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Re: Is imaging the sun still within reach?

Post by Valery »

Topic starter wrote the key thought: "Dedication and frequent imaging sessions will reward. With reliable results from repeated practice."

I would add one important note - the one, who want to reach the extreme results should be focused at one, maximum two goals. Those who are trying to accomplish as many as possible goals/tasks, just limit their opportunities to reach extreme results.

Valery


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Re: Is imaging the sun still within reach?

Post by DeepSolar64 »

Hmm, food for thought, Valery. 🤔 🧐 🫤


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Re: Is imaging the sun still within reach?

Post by AJamesB »

I see the same thing in other areas of astronomy, like planetary. Seems like if one wants the most detail, you now have to rent time on meter sized telescopes in Chilean deserts, vs using home equipment.

But, all of that only matter if one's goal is to 'beat other people', so to speak. Rather, if one's goal is to simply maximize results with what one has, regardless of what others are doing, then the joy remains the same and unchanged. I try to focus on simply doing the best with what I can afford, and enjoy the results as well when others produce far superior results with either better equipment, or even the same equpiment as I have, lol.

We shouldn't let perfection be the enemy of 'good enough for us', and we shouldn't let comparisons with others eat away at the joy and satisfaction we find in our own work, progress, and accomplishments. Easier said than done of course, and I find myself at times tempted to compare results against others, but I'm doing better and better and not doing this, and instead simply enjoying the capture and processing while sharing results with family and close friends (who are probably tired of seeing sun pictures in their social media feeds by me, lol), and enjoying the stellar work produced by others these forums (pun intended:).


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Re: Is imaging the sun still within reach?

Post by Rusted »

DeepSolar64 wrote: Sat Aug 13, 2022 1:56 pm Mark, your user name should have been “ Tinkerer “. ;-)
As long as it is not used as a derogatory term. ;)

Telescope making provides hands on, practical experience in countless ways. Many of these skills and dealing with recycled or different materials can be used in "real life." Metal working, woodworking, GRP, plastics, adapting available components and designing for lightness, strength and stiffness. All these come as free gifts in your lifetime education in survival. :D

Had I not started building telescopes in my teens I would not have been able to rebuild several homes. I would not have had a crash course in mechanics, a wide range of tool use and even machining.

No internet back then. No thousands of "experts" at your "beck and call." Demanding a free rescue package with a badly worded forum post asking for help. Simply because you don't understand the problem. You can't describe it accurately. Before handing it off to a real expert in exchange for more money.

There are no "unboxing videos" in telescope making. The designer/builder is far too busy improving by iteration. Those who must rely on others for perfection, in exchange for bags of money, will never know the satisfaction of pure creativity from start to finish. All they will learn is the high cost of dealing with minor mechanical problems and cosmetic flaws. Which they find they are utterly helpless to repair.

Above all, telescope making teaches you what not to buy. When you do find yourself choosing a commercial product. Either secondhand or shiny new. Or do you buy all your stuff depending only on the "nice colour?" What if everything is black and/or white? What then? :D


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Re: Is imaging the sun still within reach?

Post by DeepSolar64 »

Rusted wrote: Sun Aug 14, 2022 3:46 am
DeepSolar64 wrote: Sat Aug 13, 2022 1:56 pm Mark, your user name should have been “ Tinkerer “. ;-)
As long as it is not used as a derogatory term. ;)

Telescope making provides hands on, practical experience in countless ways. Many of these skills and dealing with recycled or different materials can be used in "real life." Metal working, woodworking, GRP, plastics, adapting available components and designing for lightness, strength and stiffness. All these come as free gifts in your lifetime education in survival. :D

Had I not started building telescopes in my teens I would not have been able to rebuild several homes. I would not have had a crash course in mechanics, a wide range of tool use and even machining.

No internet back then. No thousands of "experts" at your "beck and call." Demanding a free rescue package with a badly worded forum post asking for help. Simply because you don't understand the problem. You can't describe it accurately. Before handing it off to a real expert in exchange for more money.

There are no "unboxing videos" in telescope making. The designer/builder is far too busy improving by iteration. Those who must rely on others for perfection, in exchange for bags of money, will never know the satisfaction of pure creativity from start to finish. All they will learn is the high cost of dealing with minor mechanical problems and cosmetic flaws. Which they find they are utterly helpless to repair.

Above all, telescope making teaches you what not to buy. When you do find yourself choosing a commercial product. Either secondhand or shiny new. Or do you buy all your stuff depending only on the "nice colour?" What if everything is black and/or white? What then? :D


" Tinkerer " wasn't meant as a derogatory term but in Mark's case as a compliment. He learns and improves his equipment in that way!

And back in the days before the internet it was books. Checked out in the local library and before then checked out at school.

James


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Re: Is imaging the sun still within reach?

Post by Rusted »

DeepSolar64 wrote: Sun Aug 14, 2022 4:38 am
" Tinkerer " wasn't meant as a derogatory term but in Mark's case as a compliment. He learns and improves his equipment in that way!

And back in the days before the internet it was books. Checked out in the local library and before then checked out at school.

James
I knew what you meant James. ;)

Ah, the cycle rides to the library.

Or the reference library. Where you had to be silent and couldn't take the [long out of date] books away.

Bell's "The Telescope" and Ingall's "Amateur Telescope Making" 1, 2 and Advanced.


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Re: Is imaging the sun still within reach?

Post by DeepSolar64 »

Amateur Telescope Making. I have a friend who has those books.

I loved the late Leslie Peltier's autobiography " Starlight Nights ". I read it twice!

I still find it amazing that I own two Ha telescopes. At one time I dreamed of a PST. Now I have both a SMII60 and 90.


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Re: Is imaging the sun still within reach?

Post by marktownley »

DeepSolar64 wrote: Sun Aug 14, 2022 5:20 am I loved the late Leslie Peltier's autobiography " Starlight Nights ". I read it twice!
I have one of his books too. I must fish it out...


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Re: Is imaging the sun still within reach?

Post by DeepSolar64 »

marktownley wrote: Sun Aug 14, 2022 2:25 pm
DeepSolar64 wrote: Sun Aug 14, 2022 5:20 am I loved the late Leslie Peltier's autobiography " Starlight Nights ". I read it twice!
I have one of his books too. I must fish it out...
He was one of the most dedicated amateur astronomers I know of. He observed in a much simpler time where dark skies were much more the norm. His observing under dark rural skies always reminds me of my earlier days of observing in the late 1970's and early 1980's. It was a simpler time with simple equipment and everything was new. I miss summer vacations from school when I had all the damn time in the world to observe with no school or work to interfere. I dream of that again. Of simpler more peaceful times under the Sun and stars.

James


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Re: Is imaging the sun still within reach?

Post by RodAstro »

I remember years ago being at a star party with one of the very first Chinese 6" refractors, lots of interest as at that time it looked massive.
Anyway in the astro boot sale I bought a Meade variable polarizer, that night I tried it in the refractor and because of the extra extension I could not reach focus.
So the next morning I jumped in the car and went down to the local hardware store and bought a hacksaw, hand drill, some drill bits and a countersink.
Back to the star party removed the focuser and cut one inch off the tube whilst a crowed watched, re drilled the holes and countersunk them put it back together, sorted.
Is that tinkering?
If I was at work that would be called R&D


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Re: Is imaging the sun still within reach?

Post by AndiesHandyHandies »

Hi

Its nice to see images from large solar setups at good sites. No need to like them.

But its also nice to get the best out of what one can afford, both money, time and location.

And like images from people making their best efforts with what they have.

Cheers. Andrew.


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Re: Is imaging the sun still within reach?

Post by MichaelTeoh »

"Buying" is not an option for me. I started solar imaging in 2011, until today, I don't own a single piece of equipment I currently use. I just use whatever I have access to, even though I know the limitation. Seeing all those wonderful images taken with better equipment, I know what is possible with the right equipment. Until I win the lottery (as Alexandra wishes XD), I continue to improve my images with what I have, pushing them to the limit, so that when I could eventually upgrade, I am technically ready to produce good images.


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Re: Is imaging the sun still within reach?

Post by Dennis »

Rusted wrote: Fri Aug 12, 2022 5:10 am Detail, that most of us can only dream of!

But are we in an "arms race" with millionaires?

It seems that solar imagers must now go Double Stacked or go home.
Use much larger apertures.
Use larger, premium optics.
Afford unobtainable D-ERFs.
Use "collectable" vintage etalons.
Or image at high altitudes.
Own a private, mountainous island.
Preferably of limestone or white marble. :cool:
Or all of the above?

Do we have any amateur, balloon riding solar imagers in our midst?
Are tilting, solar tower telescopes shown in our stars?
That might actually be a valid way forward.
A couple of GRP flagpoles, some combine harvester twine...
and a large [quartz] optical flat should serve. ;)

The "modern" equivalent of the PST Mod is sorely needed.
Just to bring solar imaging back within reach of many more of us.
Or are we all in need of an affordable, off-the-shelf SHG?

Did I forget to mention advanced skills? :D
A very interesting question.
But isnt this what is the "magic" about this hobby? Isnt this, what keeps us trying to push the limits? There is always something new to discover and to learn from others. This motivates me.
If we had all the perfect setup, environment and knowledge, it would be quite boring after one month i guess.


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Re: Is imaging the sun still within reach?

Post by Rusted »

Dennis wrote: Sun Aug 14, 2022 5:07 pm
A very interesting question.
But isn't this what is the "magic" about this hobby? Isn't this, what keeps us trying to push the limits? There is always something new to discover and to learn from others. This motivates me.
If we had all the perfect setup, environment and knowledge, it would be quite boring after one month i guess.
Thank you for that insight Dennis. I never saw it from that point of view.


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Re: Is imaging the sun still within reach?

Post by torsinadoc »

Interesting topic. I enjoy the HR images and am thankful people share them. I appreciate people push boundaries but I am pretty content with my low and medium resolution set up (I am 80% visual/sketching). All my equipment (except Cak) was purchased used. I wouldnt mind spending some decent money IF there was a guarantee it would meet my expectations. After getting kicked in the junk buying a "professional grade" etalon and taking more than a year to get it sorted, I am hesitant to purchase expensive Ha equipment again.


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Re: Is imaging the sun still within reach?

Post by DeepSolar64 »

Michael,
You are fortunate to have had access to such fine equipment and facilities for so long and not having to drop a bunch of money on equipment. I would " milk that cow " for as long as possible. But I would save some money in case it should end so your hobby won't die.

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Re: Is imaging the sun still within reach?

Post by AJamesB »

[/quote]

I dream of that again. Of simpler more peaceful times under the Sun and stars.

James
[/quote]

This is where I tend to shoot myself in the foot. Be it deep space astrophotography, planetary or solar, the temptation for me is to push things so far that I'm at my near limit of complexity, and thus my near limit of mental energy required to 'enjoy' the hobby, and if I'm not careful I find myself doing it less and less simply because I've let the pursuit of perfection overcomplicate things and suck the simple joy out of it. I've been intentionally simplifying and even downgrading in areas, just to ensure I keep it simple enough to enjoy and continue doing. Upgrade fever is a real thing, and it can really ruin the satisfaction and joy we feel, whether we upgrade or not while sick with that fever, lol.


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Re: Is imaging the sun still within reach?

Post by DeepSolar64 »

AJamesB,
I can see what you are saying. It becomes more like work than a hobby. It becomes laborsome. Imaging has always discouraged me a bit on that too with all the stacking, editing and processing and seeking more expensive equipment. Visual is more natural to me. But even visual is becoming more time consuming as we get well into Solar Cycle 25 as activity increases towards maximum. Anyone who follows my posts can see that they are getting bigger and more complex as I try to describe what I see. And then there is writing/typing notes down at the scope and getting online to find current images to assist me. Visual may end up not much easier than imaging. But I have a goal. Document SS 25 to the best of my ability be it completion or death! Solar Cycle 25 or bust!! I think a close friend of mine thinks I am an obsessed fanatic! ☀️ 🔭 🤪

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Re: Is imaging the sun still within reach?

Post by Valery »

I personally found this thread as a demotivator. Harmful for those who are not lazy and have potentions to move ahead or at least not give up, going back. I hope this was not Rusted's intention. But the thread has developed as a demotivator.

For those, who are followers of "relaxed" and "lazy" style of observing. I would suggest to buy one of these telescopes:
Lunt 80THa PT DS + bino + simple mount.
Lunt 60THa PT DS + bino + simple mount.
Two Lunt LS50FHa etalons (both front mounted, matched for DS) + B1200 + bino + simple mount

Coronado SM60 DS + BF10 + bino + simple mount.

You will see petty much all on the sun. As much as you have paid and according your efforts.

For those who are willing to move ahead, don't allow such/similar threads to demotivate you on your way ahead.
There are many ways you can go ahead and get on the territory of larger solar telescopes (larger than usual 6").
And far not all of these ways are very expensive. In fact, a dedicated 80mm solar telescope is more expensive than
optimized 8" Ha telescope with 0.5A to 0.3A bandwidth. Do not invent a bycicle! Just look around and you will see
such examples of 8" solar telescopes costs 3.3 - 3.5K.
See the photos taken with 3.5K setup. Do they look unconvinceable, Rusted?


Valery
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Re: Is imaging the sun still within reach?

Post by marktownley »

Sorry to hear this has demotivated you Valery. I guess we're all different people with all different priorities with our hobby!


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Re: Is imaging the sun still within reach?

Post by RodAstro »

Hi Valery
I Can't afford your "relaxed" and "lazy" style of observing" and I think many of us are below that level.
We do what we do and enjoy it.
I think "lazy" sounds a bit harsh in English, but I understand that may be due to translation.

Sometimes we have to step back and remember this is just a hobby and we should be enjoying it and part of that enjoyment is not feeling bad about what we can afford.

Rod


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Re: Is imaging the sun still within reach?

Post by DeepSolar64 »

I can be lazy. I’ll admit it. I like minimal effort to achieve good results. I tend to stick with the familiar. But a part of me does desire more. It reminds me of yesterday talking to Alexandra during the meeting on imaging. On whether full disk or high rez. We both love high rez granulation and that takes good equipment, work and skill. She thought it could be a goal for me. 🤔

I do have a SMII60 and simple mounts. I do want a binoviewer though. I also usually use simple achros for solar. The AT72EDII is an occasional exception and I do have a SMII90 as well.

Concerning visual. How many people here really use their eyes to pick out fine detail? Most do a quick look I think. Visual also takes skill if seriously pursued. The sketchers here are a wonderful example of skilled visual observations. Better than my description work. Yep visual can be “ work “ too!!

My motto at work is “ Work smarter not harder “.

James

P.S. No insult taken Valery. Some of us are more driven than others.
Last edited by DeepSolar64 on Mon Aug 15, 2022 2:33 pm, edited 1 time in total.


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Re: Is imaging the sun still within reach?

Post by pupak »

After all, it's about having fun. It's not routine. It's great fun and it costs something.
Someone pays 10 thousand USD to travel around the world, we travel all the way to the Sun.
There is nothing more beautiful than the star that gave birth to us.


I do not look at the sky with the eyes of an astronomer, but of a person looking for the beauty of nature.
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Re: Is imaging the sun still within reach?

Post by DeepSolar64 »

Well said Pupak!!


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Re: Is imaging the sun still within reach?

Post by thesmiths »

My simple "secret ingredient" to get the best imaging (at least where I am): wake up at dawn and setup up all equipment to image right as the Sun peaks over the local horizon (trees, mountains, preferably not too many houses). This is consistently the best seeing for me and after 90 minutes it is has degraded significantly. Waking up early makes the best use of the existing equipment investment, whatever that may be. This is true both for white light and H-alpha, in my experience.


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Re: Is imaging the sun still within reach?

Post by Rusted »

It was not my intention to demotivate anyone. More about questioning the escalating price of the equipment so essential to our hobby.

Ironic that the term "lazy" should come from an equipment dealer. One who piggybacks, free of charge, on this dedicated solar forum.
Are you pushing product again? Where is the "product placement" warning at the bottom of every post?

To list a series of instrument, which many here can only dream of, including myself.
Then to call the owners [and potential owners] "lazy" should surely demand a public apology! Or a forum ban!
This is one of the most nasty and negative things I can possibly imagine ever being posted on an equipment based forum.
It reeks of aperture snobbery by one who can easily afford it!

The larger instruments you tout here are always going to be at the mercy of the local seeing conditions.
Only those with such conditions on a regular basis would not be throwing large sums of money down the drain!


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Re: Is imaging the sun still within reach?

Post by rsfoto »

Interesting ...


regards Rainer

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Re: Is imaging the sun still within reach?

Post by DeepSolar64 »

TheSmiths,
It's surprising that the seeing is so good with you just after the sun rises. You are looking through such a thick layer of atmosphere. I generally have to let it rise a bit. Usually between 9am-10:30am I have the best seeing. The Sun is then high enough to be above looking so horizontally through the thick air and not yet late enough for the heating of the day to really kick in yet.

But every area is different.

And use your existing equipment to the max! I do.

James


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Re: Is imaging the sun still within reach?

Post by Rusted »

Best local seeing is not always at the same time of day for everybody.
My early morning imaging was lost to local trees.

Late afternoon is usually best for me.
Despite having been heated all day and a longer, atmospheric path length.

My rural situation [fields] and westerly trees avoid heated roofs.
Foliage is almost always cool to the touch.
Potted bushes or trees can be moved about to shield a sensitive area from the sun.
White sheets or tarpaulins can shield the local area from solar heating.

I think it is safe to say that seeing conditions are not reliable.
One should never assume that you have poor seeing without extensive trials.
Testing for one day or time is not enough just to give up.

Getting well above the ground works for me.
A wooden/plywood building does not heat up like metal and GRP.


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Re: Is imaging the sun still within reach?

Post by thesmiths »

DeepSolar64 wrote: Mon Aug 15, 2022 4:10 pm It's surprising that the seeing is so good with you just after the sun rises. You are looking through such a thick layer of atmosphere. I generally have to let it rise a bit. Usually between 9am-10:30am I have the best seeing.
At the moment, sunrise in London is at 6:30m, but because of trees, the earliest I can image the sun is at 7:30am. Most recently, the best images came at around 8:00am, but that might be due to taking some time to get focusing right. By 9am, it was definitely a bit worse.


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Re: Is imaging the sun still within reach?

Post by Montana »

Please remember folks that we all speak different languages and English isn't always our first language. Please bear with those who may be using Google translate, sometimes the words that come out aren't always what we expect, so don't take offense at certain individual words, it could be an error in translation between languages. This is a friendly forum so we have to take things in an understanding way and give the benefit of the doubt.

Alexandra


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Re: Is imaging the sun still within reach?

Post by Radon86 »

thesmiths wrote: Mon Aug 15, 2022 2:55 pm My simple "secret ingredient" to get the best imaging (at least where I am): wake up at dawn and setup up all equipment to image right as the Sun peaks over the local horizon (trees, mountains, preferably not too many houses). This is consistently the best seeing for me and after 90 minutes it is has degraded significantly. Waking up early makes the best use of the existing equipment investment, whatever that may be. This is true both for white light and H-alpha, in my experience.
I agree. But it means I would have to setup my telescopes on the front of my house, facing the main road. I can do it more discreetly by doing so in the driveway. I wish I had private grounds which would allow me to keep my setup in that position for imminent sunrise, although houses still block the first hour or so I think of the sun.
How about a sea view of the sun ???

Magnus


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Re: Is imaging the sun still within reach?

Post by Valery »

Montana wrote: Fri Aug 12, 2022 9:18 am :) you made me smile when I read this. Sometimes I get very despondent because I bought a lot of stuff that costs a lot of money and most of it doesn't work, mainly because I don't have a degree and PhD in telescope engineering and optical physics. Maybe you could add this to the magical list :) it will probably cost a lot of money to get them all working properly too and I will need that money to heat the house this winter and afford diesel to get to work instead.

I was discussing this with Nic last Sunday. My dream would be to win the lottery, buy a piece of land on the Isle of Man, build a solar observatory and guest house and it would be free for any solarchatter to use at any time. Sadly, I never win the lottery :(

An off the shelf SHG would be great too, so long as it came with instructions for those without a PhD in the said above :)
Alexandra

Alexandra,

IMHO, you do not have any real reasons to be disappointed. Let me explain why I think so.

1. You do have a full line of necessary equipment for obtaining results which is equivalent to what best amateur solar imagers can obtain with their equipment. This is at least 50% of the task.

2. You do living in a mild climate - a third best for imaging in a warm season (April - October). You do have a nice grassy carpet at your backyard. So, a good seeing is not too rare at your area. This is at least 30% of the task.

3. Only 20% of the task remains to overcome.

50% of these last 20% is to learn how to keep your 11" SCT telescope at a good collimation and, if possible, to build or buy a pier instead of a shaky tripod of the present mount. The pier is needed to elevate the aperture above the ground layer of turbulence.
Last 10% is - to accomplish the lessons in image processing we have planned earlier.

The best images you was able to take with your 11" setup till now, showed me that you are in 2-3 small steps from a full success. You will sure do them.


Valery.
Last edited by Valery on Wed Aug 17, 2022 2:10 am, edited 1 time in total.


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Re: Is imaging the sun still within reach?

Post by DeepSolar64 »

Alexandra, while I agree much with Valery I believe you are already there. You have won an award or two with your images and I do remember an image you did in white light of the granules a while back that was absolutely beautiful. I think it was an award winning picture. I really enjoy your images along with your other British imaging comrades!

👍🏻👍🏻 James


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Re: Is imaging the sun still within reach?

Post by AJamesB »

Valery wrote: Mon Aug 15, 2022 8:49 am
I personally found this thread as a demotivator. Harmful for those who are not lazy and have potentions to move ahead or at least not give up, going back. I hope this was not Rusted's intention. But the thread has developed as a demotivator.

Valery
I don't see it as a demotivator, but more of recognizing one's limits on mental energy. Don't get me wrong, I love the pursuit and chase of detail and pushing my abilities and find great satisfaction in it. I've just also noticed that the more complex, energy consuming and time consuming something is to get going, on those days where I'm a little more tired, I'm a little less motivated to go through all the effort. I'm also always happy I did get giong after the fact, but I can't deny I'm getting older and my energy just isn't quite what it used to be when I was younger, lol.

For example, I cannot wait to where things settle down enough for you and your family and to where we can find a safe method of payment and shipping for the 11inch DERF! Do I think, after the fact, knowing myself, I maybe should have gone for the 8" instead of the 11" DERF, given how much extra work there is for me in setting up a much heavier and beefy mount+OTA+counter weights (I don't have the option for a permanent setup), the extra effort in keeping an 11" collimated vs an 8", temp equalization time between the 2 sizes, etc.? Sure. But I also know I'll still thoroughly enjoy using the 11inch, even if I use it a bit less than I might use an 8inch due to differences in energy and time for setup and breakdown.

But don't worry, I'm still plenty motivated to continue enjoying all aspects of astronomy and continuing the improving of my skills and acquisition/processing techniques! I've just dialed it back juuuust a touch to ensure its sustainable over the long run, and that it strikes the optimum balance between improvement and frequency of enjoyment.

And as always, I'm grateful for all of your input and hope you and your family are still well and safe, and that things settle down and become safer, much sooner than later, for you and everyone over there.

Stay safe my friend.
Last edited by AJamesB on Wed Aug 24, 2022 2:02 am, edited 1 time in total.


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Re: Is imaging the sun still within reach?

Post by Radon86 »

AJamesB wrote: Sun Aug 21, 2022 9:18 pm
Valery wrote: Mon Aug 15, 2022 8:49 am
I personally found this thread as a demotivator. Harmful for those who are not lazy and have potentions to move ahead or at least not give up, going back. I hope this was not Rusted's intention. But the thread has developed as a demotivator.

Valery
I don't see it as a demotivator, but more of recognizing one's limits on mental energy. Don't get me wrong, I love the pursuit and chase of detail and pushing my abilities and find great satisfaction in it. I've just also noticed that the more complex, energy consuming and time consuming something is to get going, on those days where I'm a little more tired, I'm a little less motivated to go through all the effort. I'm also always happy I did get giong after the fact, but I'm can't deny I'm getting older and my energy just isn't quite what it used to be when I was younger, lol.

For example, I cannot wait to where things settle down enough for you and your family and to where we can find a safe method of payment and shipping for the 11inch DERF! Do I think, after the fact, knowing myself, I maybe should have gone for the 8" instead of the 11" DERF, given how much extra work there is for me in setting up a much heavier and beefy mount+OTA+counter weights (I don't have the option for a permanent setup), the extra effort in keeping an 11" collimated vs an 8", temp equalization time between the 2 sizes, etc.? Sure. But I also know I'll still thoroughly enjoy using the 11inch, even if I use it a bit less than I might use an 8inch due to differences in energy and time for setup and breakdown.

But don't worry, I'm still plenty motivated to continue enjoying all aspects of astronomy and continuing the improving of my skills and acquisition/processing techniques! I've just dialed it back juuuust a touch to ensure its sustainable over the long run, and that it strikes the optimum balance between improvement and frequency of enjoyment.

And as always, I'm grateful for all of your input and hope you and your family are still well and safe, and that things settle down and become safer, much sooner than later, for you and everyone over there.

Stay safe my friend.
I agree with AJames. Don't forget, homo sapiens has just started imaging the sun for a nanosecond of its total existence or the creation of the sun 4.3 billion years ago. We (homo sapiens) has not evolved to a higher state of complete dedication to solar imaging yet.


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Re: Is imaging the sun still within reach?

Post by rigel123 »

Always interesting to read different opinions on a subject such as this. I bought my LS60 10 years ago and finally bought the DS unit for it nearly 6 years later. I almost moved on a new 80mm Lunt and Lunt was going to give me an amazing trade in deal, but my enjoyment in this hobby is catching those rare phenomena such as post flare loops, prom lift offs, etc in animations that I can capture all with my current equipment, so that is my motivation in this hobby. I enjoy the high res images seen on this forum that I'll never duplicate, but those same folks might miss the delicate details of a post flare loop that I happen to capture in an animation to share for their enjoyment.


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