Fan cooler for ZWO cameras??

Frankenscope? Let's see it!***be advised that NOTHING in this forum has been safety tested and you are reading and using these posts at your own peril. blah, blah, blah... dont mess around with your eyesight when it comes to solar astronomy. Use appropriate filtration at all times...
Post Reply
User avatar
Merlin66
Librarian
Librarian
Posts: 3970
Joined: Tue Dec 13, 2011 1:23 pm
Location: Junortoun, Australia
Has thanked: 173 times
Been thanked: 615 times
Contact:

Fan cooler for ZWO cameras??

Post by Merlin66 »

Not solar scopes or etalons etc but a request for a 3D printed fan housing which could easily be fitted to the rear of the ASI cameras.
There's already four tapped holes available (M4?) and small 12V computer fan would probably do the job.

Here in Oz on a 32deg day the camera was reporting a temperature of 42deg. I think a small fan could reduce the camera temperature.
(Player One offer a similar solution on their cameras....https://player-one-astronomy.com/produc ... d-cameras/)
playerOne fan.JPG
playerOne fan.JPG (51.3 KiB) Viewed 3609 times


"Astronomical Spectroscopy - The Final Frontier" - to boldly go where few amateurs have gone before
https://groups.io/g/astronomicalspectroscopy  
http://astronomicalspectroscopy.com
"Astronomical Spectroscopy for Amateurs" and
"Imaging Sunlight - using a digital spectroheliograph" - Springer
thesmiths
Almost There...
Almost There...
Posts: 1054
Joined: Mon Jun 04, 2012 8:13 pm
Location: London, England
Has thanked: 42 times
Been thanked: 1487 times

Re: Fan cooler for ZWO cameras??

Post by thesmiths »

I suspect this will only be minimally effective with ZWO cameras. The Player One cameras have been designed such that the sensor is actually quite well thermally connected to the back of the camera. I have taken apart a ZWO planetary camera for sensor cleaning and I could see that the sensor was just attached to the PCB and not thermally connected at all to the camera body.

Player One cooling
Player One cooling
Passive-cooling-system-1.jpg (176.69 KiB) Viewed 3605 times


User avatar
rsfoto
Way More Fun to Share It!!
Way More Fun to Share It!!
Posts: 6166
Joined: Mon Jun 18, 2012 8:30 pm
Location: San Luis Potosi, México
Has thanked: 9413 times
Been thanked: 5578 times

Re: Fan cooler for ZWO cameras??

Post by rsfoto »

Hi Ken,

I designed this for a ZWO ASI 178MM. It has a 50mm fan and a heat sink with 110 fingers. It reduces about 5°C the camera temperature.

If you are interested I can tell you more.

It could be even enhanced by sandwiching a 40x40mm Peltier element between the camera body and the heat sink. Have not yet done it.

https://www.amazon.com.mx/gp/product/B0 ... UTF8&psc=1

https://www.amazon.com.mx/gp/product/B0 ... UTF8&psc=1

Image


regards Rainer

Observatorio Real de 14
San Luis Potosi Mexico

North 22° West 101°
User avatar
BGazing
Ohhhhhh My!
Ohhhhhh My!
Posts: 197
Joined: Mon Apr 11, 2022 6:53 pm
Has thanked: 289 times
Been thanked: 351 times

Re: Fan cooler for ZWO cameras??

Post by BGazing »

Hm, just checked working temperature range for my ASI, says -5 to +45...I guess it might be a problem for those whose shooting sessions are long.


Lunt 80MT DS, 533/1600/462
User avatar
Merlin66
Librarian
Librarian
Posts: 3970
Joined: Tue Dec 13, 2011 1:23 pm
Location: Junortoun, Australia
Has thanked: 173 times
Been thanked: 615 times
Contact:

Re: Fan cooler for ZWO cameras??

Post by Merlin66 »

I’m up to a camera temperature of 42 degrees……


"Astronomical Spectroscopy - The Final Frontier" - to boldly go where few amateurs have gone before
https://groups.io/g/astronomicalspectroscopy  
http://astronomicalspectroscopy.com
"Astronomical Spectroscopy for Amateurs" and
"Imaging Sunlight - using a digital spectroheliograph" - Springer
FRAZ
Ohhhhhh My!
Ohhhhhh My!
Posts: 153
Joined: Fri Jun 20, 2014 5:36 pm
Location: LIVERPOOL
Has thanked: 178 times
Been thanked: 96 times

Re: Fan cooler for ZWO cameras??

Post by FRAZ »

Thanks Merlin

Lets hope developers take notice.


Stage 2 mod completed @ 100, 127.
Istar 228 arrived, building the frame slowly while learning cnc.
thesmiths
Almost There...
Almost There...
Posts: 1054
Joined: Mon Jun 04, 2012 8:13 pm
Location: London, England
Has thanked: 42 times
Been thanked: 1487 times

Re: Fan cooler for ZWO cameras??

Post by thesmiths »

I noticed, by the way, that my old 174MM would get a lot hotter than my newer ZWO cameras. I assume over time, all chips and electronics have become more power efficient.


User avatar
Merlin66
Librarian
Librarian
Posts: 3970
Joined: Tue Dec 13, 2011 1:23 pm
Location: Junortoun, Australia
Has thanked: 173 times
Been thanked: 615 times
Contact:

Re: Fan cooler for ZWO cameras??

Post by Merlin66 »

Ok
I've ordered a 40mm Peltier module, a 50 x 50mm heat sink and a 50mm fan.
With some help from Rainer.
Let's see what happens...............


"Astronomical Spectroscopy - The Final Frontier" - to boldly go where few amateurs have gone before
https://groups.io/g/astronomicalspectroscopy  
http://astronomicalspectroscopy.com
"Astronomical Spectroscopy for Amateurs" and
"Imaging Sunlight - using a digital spectroheliograph" - Springer
User avatar
Martin_S
Way More Fun to Share It!!
Way More Fun to Share It!!
Posts: 1839
Joined: Sat Mar 16, 2019 12:34 am
Location: Brisbane , Australia
Has thanked: 979 times
Been thanked: 2992 times

Re: Fan cooler for ZWO cameras??

Post by Martin_S »

Ken , I've been experimenting with coolers all day I have just made a prototype double stacked Peltier cooler. It will cool the base plate to 15. 2 degrees Celsius , from 30 degrees in 7 minutes, then it will hold that temperature for over 2 hours in an ambient temperature of 28 degrees.

I'm running the bottom module at 6volts and the top module at 9volts with a 50mm heatsink.

Tomorrow I'll test it in the outside heat and see what results I get.
temp.jpg
temp.jpg (153.27 KiB) Viewed 3205 times


H alpha : ,Skywatcher 120mm F8 open frame refractor, a tilted 2" 7nm H-alpha filter as a sub energy rejection filter, Baader TZ4 telecentric focal extender, Player One energy rejection filter, Combo Quark Chromosphere, Naked PST etalon for double stacking, ASI74mm camera
User avatar
rsfoto
Way More Fun to Share It!!
Way More Fun to Share It!!
Posts: 6166
Joined: Mon Jun 18, 2012 8:30 pm
Location: San Luis Potosi, México
Has thanked: 9413 times
Been thanked: 5578 times

Re: Fan cooler for ZWO cameras??

Post by rsfoto »

Hi Martin,

I assume you are blowing onto the heatsink.

Have you tried sucking the air from the fins ?

Interesting is that you have only a delta of 13°C using two TEC's.


regards Rainer

Observatorio Real de 14
San Luis Potosi Mexico

North 22° West 101°
User avatar
Martin_S
Way More Fun to Share It!!
Way More Fun to Share It!!
Posts: 1839
Joined: Sat Mar 16, 2019 12:34 am
Location: Brisbane , Australia
Has thanked: 979 times
Been thanked: 2992 times

Re: Fan cooler for ZWO cameras??

Post by Martin_S »

Yes I was expecting more Rainer . I have tried a few more configurations, I can get up to a delta of 17 degrees as measured on the cooling plate.

The same as my phone cooler measured on the cooling plate. :?


H alpha : ,Skywatcher 120mm F8 open frame refractor, a tilted 2" 7nm H-alpha filter as a sub energy rejection filter, Baader TZ4 telecentric focal extender, Player One energy rejection filter, Combo Quark Chromosphere, Naked PST etalon for double stacking, ASI74mm camera
User avatar
rsfoto
Way More Fun to Share It!!
Way More Fun to Share It!!
Posts: 6166
Joined: Mon Jun 18, 2012 8:30 pm
Location: San Luis Potosi, México
Has thanked: 9413 times
Been thanked: 5578 times

Re: Fan cooler for ZWO cameras??

Post by rsfoto »

Martin_S wrote: Sun Mar 19, 2023 7:44 pm Yes I was expecting more Rainer . I have tried a few more configurations, I can get up to a delta of 17 degrees as measured on the cooling plate.

The same as my phone cooler measured on the cooling plate. :?
Hi Martin,

Interesting. I have not measured the cold side of my cooler. Will see how to get a reasonable holder for measuring it


regards Rainer

Observatorio Real de 14
San Luis Potosi Mexico

North 22° West 101°
User avatar
Martin_S
Way More Fun to Share It!!
Way More Fun to Share It!!
Posts: 1839
Joined: Sat Mar 16, 2019 12:34 am
Location: Brisbane , Australia
Has thanked: 979 times
Been thanked: 2992 times

Re: Fan cooler for ZWO cameras??

Post by Martin_S »

Here is a cooler I made for my ASI174mm. The insane heat we've been having in Australia the past week has convinced me to find a workable solution for camera cooling. The little phone coolers I've been using cannot cope with the extreme ambient temperatures. I've been working on various configurations. This one is the most effective. So far the camera has only been tested on my desk as the Sun has been hiding behind heavy clouds for a few days.

You can see by looking at the Firecapture screen capture the point where I turned on the cooler and the overall efficiency of the cooler.

I'm now working on a cooler for my ASI432 , this will be a different design as this camera runs hotter than the ASI174. This camera is different to other ASI planetary cameras as you cannot utilise the 4 M4 x .7 threaded holes on the back of the camera as they are using these to fasten the casing together as it has a join halfway up the barrel.
Screenshot 2023-03-22 102915.jpg
Screenshot 2023-03-22 102915.jpg (78.27 KiB) Viewed 3106 times
20230322_132424.jpg
20230322_132424.jpg (103.54 KiB) Viewed 3106 times
Attachments
20230322_101707.jpg
20230322_101707.jpg (82.14 KiB) Viewed 3106 times


H alpha : ,Skywatcher 120mm F8 open frame refractor, a tilted 2" 7nm H-alpha filter as a sub energy rejection filter, Baader TZ4 telecentric focal extender, Player One energy rejection filter, Combo Quark Chromosphere, Naked PST etalon for double stacking, ASI74mm camera
User avatar
rsfoto
Way More Fun to Share It!!
Way More Fun to Share It!!
Posts: 6166
Joined: Mon Jun 18, 2012 8:30 pm
Location: San Luis Potosi, México
Has thanked: 9413 times
Been thanked: 5578 times

Re: Fan cooler for ZWO cameras??

Post by rsfoto »

Hi Martin,

Well done.

What was your ambient temperature ?

What was the highest temperature of the camera ?

Is the fan blowing or sucking ?

Firecapture does have a feature which allows you to save a CSV file for the whole time the camera is running. Clock on the gear of temperature andthere you can choose to save a CSV file or not.

I assume that is a single TEC sandwiched. I see you are using a 50mm heatsink and the TEC also looks bigger then 40mm.

I do not see it difficult to make a clamp adapter for the ASI 432MM and get 4 holes for fastening the heatsink and cooloer.


regards Rainer

Observatorio Real de 14
San Luis Potosi Mexico

North 22° West 101°
User avatar
rsfoto
Way More Fun to Share It!!
Way More Fun to Share It!!
Posts: 6166
Joined: Mon Jun 18, 2012 8:30 pm
Location: San Luis Potosi, México
Has thanked: 9413 times
Been thanked: 5578 times

Re: Fan cooler for ZWO cameras??

Post by rsfoto »

Hi,

Could you not thread the holes of the ASI 432 or are they not deep enough anymore ?

With your machining skills I would drill 4 holes and thread them M4x0.7.


regards Rainer

Observatorio Real de 14
San Luis Potosi Mexico

North 22° West 101°
User avatar
rsfoto
Way More Fun to Share It!!
Way More Fun to Share It!!
Posts: 6166
Joined: Mon Jun 18, 2012 8:30 pm
Location: San Luis Potosi, México
Has thanked: 9413 times
Been thanked: 5578 times

Re: Fan cooler for ZWO cameras??

Post by rsfoto »

This camera is different to other ASI planetary cameras as you cannot utilize the 4 M4 x .7 threaded holes on the back of the camera as they are using these to fasten the casing together as it has a join halfway up the barrel.

Hi Martin,

Of course you can use those 4 holes. Get some stainless steel threaded rods and press the cover with 4 washers and nuts as if they were the screws and use the 4 rods for fastening the whole cooling enchilada.

Rainer


regards Rainer

Observatorio Real de 14
San Luis Potosi Mexico

North 22° West 101°
User avatar
Martin_S
Way More Fun to Share It!!
Way More Fun to Share It!!
Posts: 1839
Joined: Sat Mar 16, 2019 12:34 am
Location: Brisbane , Australia
Has thanked: 979 times
Been thanked: 2992 times

Re: Fan cooler for ZWO cameras??

Post by Martin_S »

rsfoto wrote: Fri Mar 24, 2023 8:33 pm
This camera is different to other ASI planetary cameras as you cannot utilize the 4 M4 x .7 threaded holes on the back of the camera as they are using these to fasten the casing together as it has a join halfway up the barrel.

Hi Martin,

Of course you can use those 4 holes. Get some stainless steel threaded rods and press the cover with 4 washers and nuts as if they were the screws and use the 4 rods for fastening the whole cooling enchilada.

Rainer

Thanks for your suggestion Rainer, I had considered that option, which I might try when the camera is out of warranty.

Here is a link to a radical modification to a ASI224mc that might be of interest to you.

http://indexhamal.pl/astrofotografia/ASI224MCmod.htm


Martin


H alpha : ,Skywatcher 120mm F8 open frame refractor, a tilted 2" 7nm H-alpha filter as a sub energy rejection filter, Baader TZ4 telecentric focal extender, Player One energy rejection filter, Combo Quark Chromosphere, Naked PST etalon for double stacking, ASI74mm camera
User avatar
rsfoto
Way More Fun to Share It!!
Way More Fun to Share It!!
Posts: 6166
Joined: Mon Jun 18, 2012 8:30 pm
Location: San Luis Potosi, México
Has thanked: 9413 times
Been thanked: 5578 times

Re: Fan cooler for ZWO cameras??

Post by rsfoto »

Martin_S wrote: Sat Mar 25, 2023 9:43 pm
rsfoto wrote: Fri Mar 24, 2023 8:33 pm
This camera is different to other ASI planetary cameras as you cannot utilize the 4 M4 x .7 threaded holes on the back of the camera as they are using these to fasten the casing together as it has a join halfway up the barrel.

Hi Martin,

Of course you can use those 4 holes. Get some stainless steel threaded rods and press the cover with 4 washers and nuts as if they were the screws and use the 4 rods for fastening the whole cooling enchilada.

Rainer

Thanks for your suggestion Rainer, I had considered that option, which I might try when the camera is out of warranty.

Here is a link to a radical modification to a ASI224mc that might be of interest to you.

http://indexhamal.pl/astrofotografia/ASI224MCmod.htm


Martin
Hi Martin,

Interesting mod but the way he put the fan is abit low in efficiency with that big gap ... :mrgreen:


regards Rainer

Observatorio Real de 14
San Luis Potosi Mexico

North 22° West 101°
User avatar
Rusted
Way More Fun to Share It!!
Way More Fun to Share It!!
Posts: 1738
Joined: Fri Jan 19, 2018 11:00 am
Location: Central Denmark
Has thanked: 8016 times
Been thanked: 1938 times
Contact:

Re: Fan cooler for ZWO cameras??

Post by Rusted »

Where there's a gap there's room for a venturi.

Cooling by air expansion from a nozzle?


http://fullerscopes.blogspot.dk/

H-alpha: Baader 160mm D-ERF, iStar 150/10 H-alpha objective, 2" Baader 35nm H-a, 2" Beloptik KG3,
Lunt 60MT etalon, Lunt B1200S2 BF, Assorted T-S GPCs or 2x "Shorty" Barlow, ZWO ASI174.
User avatar
rsfoto
Way More Fun to Share It!!
Way More Fun to Share It!!
Posts: 6166
Joined: Mon Jun 18, 2012 8:30 pm
Location: San Luis Potosi, México
Has thanked: 9413 times
Been thanked: 5578 times

Re: Fan cooler for ZWO cameras??

Post by rsfoto »

Rusted wrote: Sun Mar 26, 2023 7:37 am Where there's a gap there's room for a venturi.

Cooling by air expansion from a nozzle?
... no idea where and how to install that but you will need an Air compressor and tubing ...

:?


regards Rainer

Observatorio Real de 14
San Luis Potosi Mexico

North 22° West 101°
User avatar
rsfoto
Way More Fun to Share It!!
Way More Fun to Share It!!
Posts: 6166
Joined: Mon Jun 18, 2012 8:30 pm
Location: San Luis Potosi, México
Has thanked: 9413 times
Been thanked: 5578 times

Re: Fan cooler for ZWO cameras??

Post by rsfoto »

Hi,

Yesterday my 50mm heat sink arrived and today I will test it and compare results to the 40mm heat sink.

Will test also the difference between blowing and sucking the air. Yesterday I made a short test and looking at the heat sink I guess this time it will be better to blow air onto the heat sink. The used heat sink has long ribs and not fingers like the 40mm heat sink.


regards Rainer

Observatorio Real de 14
San Luis Potosi Mexico

North 22° West 101°
User avatar
rsfoto
Way More Fun to Share It!!
Way More Fun to Share It!!
Posts: 6166
Joined: Mon Jun 18, 2012 8:30 pm
Location: San Luis Potosi, México
Has thanked: 9413 times
Been thanked: 5578 times

Re: Fan cooler for ZWO cameras??

Post by rsfoto »

rsfoto wrote: Sun Mar 26, 2023 3:01 pm Hi,

Yesterday my 50mm heat sink arrived and today I will test it and compare results to the 40mm heat sink.

Will test also the difference between blowing and sucking the air. Yesterday I made a short test and looking at the heat sink I guess this time it will be better to blow air onto the heat sink. The used heat sink has long ribs and not fingers like the 40mm heat sink.
Just started the test in my observatory warm room.

Ambient temperature 24.7°C

Camera temperature 23.5°C

Heat sink temperature 46.5°C

after running for 10 minutes and sinking at the time of writing ...


regards Rainer

Observatorio Real de 14
San Luis Potosi Mexico

North 22° West 101°
Post Reply