Cooler for ZWO cameras (phone cooler)

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Cooler for ZWO cameras (phone cooler)

Post by pedro »

Cooler for ZWO cameras (phone cooler)

Check out a phone cooler that can be easily adapted (ZWO cameras) ~40 euros (controlled with a phone app)

https://www.amazon.com/Refrigerator-Cus ... 183&sr=8-1

Black Shark Fun Cooler 2 Pro Cell Phone Cooler, Fast Cooling Cell Phone Refrigerator with Customized RGB Lighting, LED Temperature Display, Sleep Timer, Speed Settings for iOS/Android Phone (Black)

✅ Super Fast Cooling - The Black Shark Funcooler 2 Pro is designed with premium materials, a large contact surface and a quiet 7-blade fan for instant cooling that reduces temperatures by 24°C.
✅ RGB & Super Quiet Fan - High performance built-in fan is fast but quiet, with radiator noise reduction design. Customizable with various RGB colors and lighting effects.
✅ Temperature Display - The Black Shark Funcooler 2 Pro features a real-time temperature display designed for phone gaming enthusiasts. Monitor your device and continuously improve its performance.
✅ Universal Compatibility - Change the included adapter to fit almost any smartphone, whether you're gaming on an Android or iOS phone.
✅ [uA]PP Control[/u] - Phone Cooler app has three professional temperature adjustment modes for added personalization. Ambient light adjustment mode to customize exclusive colorful lighting effects for you.

ImageFUNCOOLER2_PRO_ZWOASI174MM_20230529_mosaic by Pedro Re', on Flickr

ImageFUNCOOLER2_PRO_ZWOASI174MM_20230529 (18) by Pedro Re', on Flickr

ImageFUNCOOLER2_PRO_ZWOASI174MM_20230529 (13) by Pedro Re', on Flickr

ImageFUNCOOLER2_PRO_ZWOASI174MM_20230529 (8) by Pedro Re', on Flickr

ImageFUNCOOLER2_PRO_ZWOASI174MM_20230529 (6) by Pedro Re', on Flickr

Image
Last edited by pedro on Sun May 28, 2023 3:46 pm, edited 2 times in total.


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Re: Cooler for ZWO cameras (phone cooler)

Post by MAURITS »

Thanks for sharing Pedro.


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Re: Cooler for ZWO cameras (phone cooler)

Post by rsfoto »

Hi,

Interesting idea. Martin S from Australia already used one for cooling his camera but the result was only 7°C lower and therefore I doubt this statement in the marketing
✅ Super Fast Cooling - The Black Shark Funcooler 2 Pro is designed with premium materials, a large contact surface and a quiet 7-blade fan for instant cooling that reduces temperatures by 24°C.
There is also already a Funcooler 3 Pro and there they state
0W Power Ultra Fast Cooling - Defeat the heat with moster-like power to make the temperature Drop by up to 30℃.
https://tinyurl.com/Funcooler3Pro

Afterwards Martin S made a new cooler using a 40mm fan and a sandwiched TEC.

I also made some tests. The best result was about a delta of 16°C using a 50mm fan.

The question here is how and where do they measure.

:?


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Re: Cooler for ZWO cameras (phone cooler)

Post by OlegLviv »

Pedro how good frozen 174?
Power USB 5v not 12v like Player One device?


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Re: Cooler for ZWO cameras (phone cooler)

Post by pedro »

I have not tried it yet during ana imaging session but the fan cools the camera and you can control it with the app (3 different temperature settings). I will give it a go and check for humidity on the CMOS


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Re: Cooler for ZWO cameras (phone cooler)

Post by Dennis »

rsfoto wrote: Sun May 28, 2023 4:49 pm Hi,

Interesting idea. Martin S from Australia already used one for cooling his camera but the result was only 7°C lower and therefore I doubt this statement in the marketing
✅ Super Fast Cooling - The Black Shark Funcooler 2 Pro is designed with premium materials, a large contact surface and a quiet 7-blade fan for instant cooling that reduces temperatures by 24°C.
There is also already a Funcooler 3 Pro and there they state
0W Power Ultra Fast Cooling - Defeat the heat with moster-like power to make the temperature Drop by up to 30℃.
https://tinyurl.com/Funcooler3Pro

Afterwards Martin S made a new cooler using a 40mm fan and a sandwiched TEC.

I also made some tests. The best result was about a delta of 16°C using a 50mm fan.

The question here is how and where do they measure.

:?

I think the problem is that most zwo camera chips have actually no contact with the housing, correct me if im wrong.
That could explain the lack of efficiency of a active cooler.
Im sticking to Player One cameras, they have solved this issue + integrated tilter.


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Re: Cooler for ZWO cameras (phone cooler)

Post by pedro »

Tried it indoors for about 30min and it works fine. The camera body is considerably cooler and you can control the temperature. 10C seems to be a good option. Check out a few images below (no humidity on the CMOS)

ImageFUNCOOLER_2_PRO_ASI174MM_20230528_mosaic by Pedro Re', on Flickr

ImageFUNCOOLER_2_PRO_ASI174MM_20230528 (7) by Pedro Re', on Flickr

ImageFUNCOOLER_2_PRO_ASI174MM_20230528 (2) by Pedro Re', on Flickr

ImageFUNCOOLER_2_PRO_ASI174MM_20230528 (1) by Pedro Re', on Flickr

ImageFUNCOOLER_2_PRO_ASI174MM_20230528 (7) by Pedro Re', on Flickr

ImageFUNCOOLER_2_PRO_ASI174MM_20230528 (6) by Pedro Re', on Flickr

ImageFUNCOOLER_2_PRO_ASI174MM_20230528 (5) by Pedro Re', on Flickr


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Re: Cooler for ZWO cameras (phone cooler)

Post by DeepSolar64 »

I wonder if It will work on my Point Grey Grasshopper camera? It seems to get hotter than the ZWO does.


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Re: Cooler for ZWO cameras (phone cooler)

Post by pedro »

It will be difficult to adapt to a PG Grasshopper. The cooler was designed for phones. The ZWO cameras have a diameter similar to most phones. The PGRs are much smaller
Last edited by pedro on Sun May 28, 2023 7:27 pm, edited 1 time in total.


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Re: Cooler for ZWO cameras (phone cooler)

Post by rsfoto »

Hi Pedro,

OK, you are setting the camera cooler to 10°C but that does not tell us yet what is the camera temperature. Connect it to SharpCap and it will report your camera temperature.


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Re: Cooler for ZWO cameras (phone cooler)

Post by DeepSolar64 »

pedro wrote: Sun May 28, 2023 6:30 pm It will be difficult to adapt to a PG Grasshopper. The cooler was designed for phones. The ZWO cameras have a diameter similar to most phones. The PGR are much smaller
Yes, thinner and not round. :-(


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Re: Cooler for ZWO cameras (phone cooler)

Post by rsfoto »

Dennis wrote: Sun May 28, 2023 6:15 pm
rsfoto wrote: Sun May 28, 2023 4:49 pm Hi,

Interesting idea. Martin S from Australia already used one for cooling his camera but the result was only 7°C lower and therefore I doubt this statement in the marketing
✅ Super Fast Cooling - The Black Shark Funcooler 2 Pro is designed with premium materials, a large contact surface and a quiet 7-blade fan for instant cooling that reduces temperatures by 24°C.
There is also already a Funcooler 3 Pro and there they state
0W Power Ultra Fast Cooling - Defeat the heat with moster-like power to make the temperature Drop by up to 30℃.
https://tinyurl.com/Funcooler3Pro

Afterwards Martin S made a new cooler using a 40mm fan and a sandwiched TEC.

I also made some tests. The best result was about a delta of 16°C using a 50mm fan.

The question here is how and where do they measure.

:?

I think the problem is that most zwo camera chips have actually no contact with the housing, correct me if im wrong.
That could explain the lack of efficiency of a active cooler.
Im sticking to Player One cameras, they have solved this issue + integrated tilter.


Hi Dennis,

You are right. Most of the cameras we use do not have the chip connected to the housing except as you say Player One because they a late Player in this arena and have thought about this thermal problem and then designed the cameras in order to get a good cooling.

IMHO nearly everywhere in the world there is a 3D printer and with a bit of imagination and an investment of maybe US $ 50.00 a good cooler can be designed nowadays for any camera.

One thing we have to be careful about is when connecting the imaging chip to a cold finger, if we want to design that too, the danger of condensation and the very expensive DSO cameras do have this problem too.

:beanie:


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Re: Cooler for ZWO cameras (phone cooler)

Post by OlegLviv »

rsfoto wrote: Sun May 28, 2023 6:34 pm Hi Pedro,

OK, you are setting the camera cooler to 10°C but that does not tell us yet what is the camera temperature. Connect it to SharpCap and it will report your camera temperature.
SharpCap show my temperature o Player One 432mm but QHY 290mm dont show temperature....Do you know why dont show?


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Re: Cooler for ZWO cameras (phone cooler)

Post by rsfoto »

OlegLviv wrote: Sun May 28, 2023 8:08 pm
rsfoto wrote: Sun May 28, 2023 6:34 pm Hi Pedro,

OK, you are setting the camera cooler to 10°C but that does not tell us yet what is the camera temperature. Connect it to SharpCap and it will report your camera temperature.
SharpCap show my temperature o Player One 432mm but QHY 290mm dont show temperature....Do you know why dont show?
Perhaps QHYXXX has no temperature sensor ?

No idea as I have no QHYXXX camera

This is a question for SharpCap and QHY camera producer IMHO
Last edited by rsfoto on Mon May 29, 2023 3:17 pm, edited 1 time in total.


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Re: Cooler for ZWO cameras (phone cooler)

Post by OlegLviv »

rsfoto wrote: Mon May 29, 2023 2:03 am
OlegLviv wrote: Sun May 28, 2023 8:08 pm
rsfoto wrote: Sun May 28, 2023 6:34 pm Hi Pedro,

OK, you are setting the camera cooler to 10°C but that does not tell us yet what is the camera temperature. Connect it to SharpCap and it will report your camera temperature.
SharpCap show my temperature o Player One 432mm but QHY 290mm dont show temperature....Do you know why dont show?
Perhaps QHYXXX has no temperature sensor ?

No idea as I have no QHYXXX camera

This is a question for SharcCap and QHY camera producer IMHO
Am waiting zwo 183mm not coller version, do you think 183 have temperature sensor?


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Re: Cooler for ZWO cameras (phone cooler)

Post by pupak »

Although, except for the mentioned Palyer One cameras, the others do not have a thermal bridge between the cover and the chip, it is good to cool them, because the cooler does not remove the heat generated by the chip, but it does remove the heat from the surroundings, which is very good in a hot summer. If the fan is of good quality and does not vibrate, then I can only recommend these coolers.


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Re: Cooler for ZWO cameras (phone cooler)

Post by Rusted »

Presumably a lower temperature housing will increase ZWO chip radiation to its immediate surroundings?
The degree of temperature drop, of the chip itself, might still be rather modest.


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Re: Cooler for ZWO cameras (phone cooler)

Post by marktownley »

Thanks Pedro


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Re: Cooler for ZWO cameras (phone cooler)

Post by Dennis »

Rusted wrote: Mon May 29, 2023 7:21 am Presumably a lower temperature housing will increase ZWO chip radiation to its immediate surroundings?
The degree of temperature drop, of the chip itself, might still be rather modest.
I would second this, what needs to be cool is the chip. The question is where is the temperature sensor located. On the chip? If so, then it seems you can get some degrees temp reduction compared to not actively cooling.


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Re: Cooler for ZWO cameras (phone cooler)

Post by DeepSolar64 »

Cooling the housing on a hot summer day should still help cool the chip.


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Re: Cooler for ZWO cameras (phone cooler)

Post by c_molders »

Hello Pedro, This is old. Last year I already mounted it on my Player One Astronomy cameras. Experience indicates that it is better to mount a copper cooling plate between the fan and the camera. That generally gives 15 degrees Celsius cooling. The screws are already in the camera. But it is an good report of you and inspirations for other people.
Good luck.


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Re: Cooler for ZWO cameras (phone cooler)

Post by rsfoto »

Dennis wrote: Mon May 29, 2023 9:06 am
Rusted wrote: Mon May 29, 2023 7:21 am Presumably a lower temperature housing will increase ZWO chip radiation to its immediate surroundings?
The degree of temperature drop, of the chip itself, might still be rather modest.
I would second this, what needs to be cool is the chip. The question is where is the temperature sensor located. On the chip? If so, then it seems you can get some degrees temp reduction compared to not actively cooling.
Hi Dennis,

Be aware of one thing and that is the humidity in the air.

Cooling directly the chip always implies a danger of condensation and freezing of the chip. Cooling the air around the chip will not achieve the same cooling as a direct cooling but it will cool the chip without danger of condensation or freezing the chip.

Now we have to differentiate why we cool our DSO cameras and why we cool out Sun imaging cameras.

We cool our DSO cameras in order to bring down noise due to long exposure times eg. 5, 10 or even more minutes.

We cool our Sun imaging cameras in order to increase the life of the electronic components. With exposure times of 50 milliseconds (these are my max exposure times) or less we have no noise in the images.

The noise we have or allegedly see, is because we introduce it ourselves with the famous Wavelet sharpening trying to get very sharp details or we crank up the gain just in order to get very short exposures (I always leave gain at 0 and bite the bullet with exposures times of about 45 - 50ms)... but we forget that the details we want to image are by far more affected by hot air turbulence be it in the sky or in our telescopes ...

About exposure times very few people ever made a series of tests in order to see when an exposure time is to high and prefer to crank up GAIN.

Einstein said: " If you do what others say, you will never know what you are really doing" (FAKE quote, I just invented it. Einstein never said that :lol: )

IMHO
Last edited by rsfoto on Mon May 29, 2023 3:37 pm, edited 1 time in total.


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Re: Cooler for ZWO cameras (phone cooler)

Post by rsfoto »

Hi,

Martin_S and I have developed some coolers for the ZWO cameras. Merlin66 aka Ken Harrison also wanted to implement a cooler on his camera but I do not know if he already finished it.

For those interested below some ideas I developed lately and working well. I am on the ASI 178MM only cooling the housing eg. cooling the air inside the camera. There are enough diagrams from me so you can judge yourself the results ...

viewtopic.php?t=38816

viewtopic.php?t=38968

viewtopic.php?t=38816
Last edited by rsfoto on Mon May 29, 2023 3:42 pm, edited 1 time in total.


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Re: Cooler for ZWO cameras (phone cooler)

Post by rsfoto »

Am waiting zwo 183mm not cooler version, do you think 183 have temperature sensor?
Hi Oleg,

I do not know but for sure it should have one. Perhaps a ASI 183MM owner can chime in.


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Re: Cooler for ZWO cameras (phone cooler)

Post by Dennis »

rsfoto wrote: Mon May 29, 2023 3:28 pm
Dennis wrote: Mon May 29, 2023 9:06 am
Rusted wrote: Mon May 29, 2023 7:21 am Presumably a lower temperature housing will increase ZWO chip radiation to its immediate surroundings?
The degree of temperature drop, of the chip itself, might still be rather modest.
I would second this, what needs to be cool is the chip. The question is where is the temperature sensor located. On the chip? If so, then it seems you can get some degrees temp reduction compared to not actively cooling.
Hi Dennis,

Be aware of one thing and that is the humidity in the air.

Cooling directly the chip always implies a danger of condensation and freezing of the chip. Cooling the air around the chip will not achieve the same cooling as a direct cooling but it will cool the chip without danger of condensation or freezing the chip.

Now we have to differentiate why we cool our DSO cameras and why we cool out Sun imaging cameras.

We cool our DSO cameras in order to bring down noise due to long exposure times eg. 5, 10 or even more minutes.

We cool our Sun imaging cameras in order to increase the life of the electronic components. With exposure times of 50 milliseconds (these are my max exposure times) or less we have no noise in the images.

The noise we have or allegedly see, is because we introduce it ourselves with the famous Wavelet sharpening trying to get very sharp details or we crank up the gain just in order to get very short exposures (I always leave gain at 0 and bite the bullet with exposures times of about 45 - 50ms)... but we forget that the details we want to image are by far more affected by hot air turbulence be it in the sky or in our telescopes ...

About exposure times very few people ever made a series of tests in order to see when an exposure time is to high and prefer to crank up GAIN.

Einstein said: " If you do what others say, you will never know what you are really doing" (FAKE quote, I just invented it. Einstein never said that :lol: )

IMHO

Hi Rainer,

a good quote, i like it.
About condensation: that sure is a thing with the peltier coolers on the deep sky cameras in night time conditions.
But in warm weather in daytime with a air blower cooling?
On my cpu in the pc i also put a strong air cooler, never had condensation though. The rel. air humidity is not high enough under these conditions.


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Re: Cooler for ZWO cameras (phone cooler)

Post by rsfoto »

Dennis wrote: Mon May 29, 2023 7:11 pm
rsfoto wrote: Mon May 29, 2023 3:28 pm
Dennis wrote: Mon May 29, 2023 9:06 am

I would second this, what needs to be cool is the chip. The question is where is the temperature sensor located. On the chip? If so, then it seems you can get some degrees temp reduction compared to not actively cooling.
Hi Dennis,

Be aware of one thing and that is the humidity in the air.

Cooling directly the chip always implies a danger of condensation and freezing of the chip. Cooling the air around the chip will not achieve the same cooling as a direct cooling but it will cool the chip without danger of condensation or freezing the chip.

Now we have to differentiate why we cool our DSO cameras and why we cool out Sun imaging cameras.

We cool our DSO cameras in order to bring down noise due to long exposure times eg. 5, 10 or even more minutes.

We cool our Sun imaging cameras in order to increase the life of the electronic components. With exposure times of 50 milliseconds (these are my max exposure times) or less we have no noise in the images.

The noise we have or allegedly see, is because we introduce it ourselves with the famous Wavelet sharpening trying to get very sharp details or we crank up the gain just in order to get very short exposures (I always leave gain at 0 and bite the bullet with exposures times of about 45 - 50ms)... but we forget that the details we want to image are by far more affected by hot air turbulence be it in the sky or in our telescopes ...

About exposure times very few people ever made a series of tests in order to see when an exposure time is to high and prefer to crank up GAIN.

Einstein said: " If you do what others say, you will never know what you are really doing" (FAKE quote, I just invented it. Einstein never said that :lol: )

IMHO

Hi Rainer,

a good quote, i like it.
About condensation: that sure is a thing with the peltier coolers on the deep sky cameras in night time conditions.
But in warm weather in daytime with a air blower cooling?
On my cpu in the pc i also put a strong air cooler, never had condensation though. The rel. air humidity is not high enough under these conditions.
Hi Dennis,

You can not compare a strong air cooling and placing a TEC directly on the back of a imaging chip or even let me say a TEC directly onto a Processor and having it enclosed in a casing with a lot of holes ... like a PC casing. Look at Martin_S's posting where he showed an image of the TEC and Fan doing a dry run. He got a lot of ice on the parts ... Martin_S lives in Australia

The higher the temperature the higher the amount of water in the air but you already know that. You can not compare the comfortable temperatures of Germany with our temperatures in Mexico or Australia. At the moment I am writing this we have here at my place 31°C and the forecast for Thursday is 34°C ... 50% of the las 3 weeks we have had days with more then 32°C.

https://www.fstweb.de/de/wissen-tools/d ... cktabelle/

IMHO


regards Rainer

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Re: Cooler for ZWO cameras (phone cooler)

Post by rsfoto »

On my cpu in the pc i also put a strong air cooler, never had condensation though. The rel. air humidity is not high enough under these conditions.
Hi Dennis,

That is correct because with just a fan you will never reach the so called Dew Point temperature (unless the ambient temperature reaches the dew point temperature) but with a TEC it reaches the Dew Point nearly instantly ...

The temperature of your heat sink (without TEC) will be a bit lower then the ambient temperature because the water content in the air helps to cool it down a bit ... that is what we call "Feels Like" which is an effect of wind and humidity ... a sweating person will feel cooler then a non sweating person...


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Re: Cooler for ZWO cameras (phone cooler)

Post by Dennis »

rsfoto wrote: Mon May 29, 2023 7:49 pm
On my cpu in the pc i also put a strong air cooler, never had condensation though. The rel. air humidity is not high enough under these conditions.
Hi Dennis,

That is correct because with just a fan you will never reach the so called Dew Point temperature (unless the ambient temperature reaches the dew point temperature) but with a TEC it reaches the Dew Point nearly instantly ...

The temperature of your heat sink (without TEC) will be a bit lower then the ambient temperature because the water content in the air helps to cool it down a bit ... that is what we call "Feels Like" which is an effect of wind and humidity ... a sweating person will feel cooler then a non sweating person...

Rainer I was writing about non TEC cooling, so just air cooling : )
Of course i agree that condensation is an issue with TEC cooling.


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Re: Cooler for ZWO cameras (phone cooler)

Post by arnedanielsen »

I've been using this one on my ASI 174mm camera for a while now:
https://www.amazon.com/Cooler-Black-Sha ... TLDB7?th=1

No fancy light or app control, but very simple to use. Just attach the self adhesive magnetic cooler ring to the back of the camera and you can easily attach/detach the magnetic cooling fan.
350373581_1251243862194597_5515582581668803130_n_resize.jpg
350373581_1251243862194597_5515582581668803130_n_resize.jpg (287.3 KiB) Viewed 331 times
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350367294_1792989664453625_8796919782308346997_n.jpg
350367294_1792989664453625_8796919782308346997_n.jpg (144.24 KiB) Viewed 331 times
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Re: Cooler for ZWO cameras (phone cooler)

Post by rsfoto »

Hi Arne,

Interesting but what are your highest temperatures in Norway.

Martin_S gets very high temperature ambients in Australia and I get nowadays about 34°C when imaging (there have been too many clouds here lately).

So I would say having a temperature sensor, I assume it is on the imging chip because anywhere else would be nonsense.

We easily reach camera temperatures of more then 50°C.

In order to get a good idea of different situation it is always best to mention the achieved temperatures.

regards Rainer


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Re: Cooler for ZWO cameras (phone cooler)

Post by arnedanielsen »

rsfoto wrote: Wed May 31, 2023 4:52 pm Hi Arne,

Interesting but what are your highest temperatures in Norway.

Martin_S gets very high temperature ambients in Australia and I get nowadays about 34°C when imaging (there have been too many clouds here lately).

So I would say having a temperature sensor, I assume it is on the imging chip because anywhere else would be nonsense.

We easily reach camera temperatures of more then 50°C.

In order tog et a good idea of differente situation it is always best to mention the achieved temperatures.

regards Rainer
Hi Rainer,

Typical summer temperatures (when the Sun is out) where I live is 20-25 degrees Celsius. On the warmest days it can get a little over 30, but that's usually only a few days.


To give an indication of the cooling effect of the 174mm camera I did a test today. The ambient temperature was around 20C. After running the camera for a while the camera temperature stabilized at 43.7C. I then turned on the cooler while continuing using the camera. After 30min it had dropped to 36.2C. Thus, using the cooler seems be able to reduce the temperature with 6-7C for my typical usage.
CoolerOff.png
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CoolerOn.png
CoolerOn.png (16.79 KiB) Viewed 292 times

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Re: Cooler for ZWO cameras (phone cooler)

Post by rsfoto »

Hi Arne,

Thank you, That were also the results of another member here using a phone cooler.

My cooler achieves an average of delta 15°C but OK, not everybody has a 3D printer at home or wants to tinker like I like to do. The cost of my cooler is more or less the same but has the disadvantage that you would buy 4 or 5 heat sinks, maybe 2 temperature controllers and 5 fans and so you could build a few more coolers ... ;)

What I have noticed is that if the ambient temperature goes down the cooling gets more and more effective which is logical as the ambient temperature blown at the heat sink is what gives us here a better cooling. Most the times I am able to reach ambient temperature on the camera.

In your case having an ambient temperature of let me say 20°C and my cooler I even dare to say that the camera would cool down under ambient temperature using my cooler or Martin_S cooler.


regards Rainer

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Re: Cooler for ZWO cameras (phone cooler)

Post by pedro »

Thanks Arne. The Black Shark Magnetic Cooler is a good option


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Re: Cooler for ZWO cameras (phone cooler)

Post by OlegLviv »

Black Shark Magnetic nice choice!


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Re: Cooler for ZWO cameras (phone cooler)

Post by pedro »

I plan to use this cooler with my new Player One Saturn-M SQR
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Re: Cooler for ZWO cameras (phone cooler)

Post by OlegLviv »

pedro wrote: Mon Jun 05, 2023 12:11 pm I plan to use this cooler with my new Player One Saturn-M SQR
The Black Shark Magnetic Cooler?


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Re: Cooler for ZWO cameras (phone cooler)

Post by arnedanielsen »

pedro wrote: Mon Jun 05, 2023 12:11 pm I plan to use this cooler with my new Player One Saturn-M SQR
I have this cooler on my Player One Apollo-M Max, but haven't tested the delta C.

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