HELP QUARK

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HELP QUARK

Post by rsfoto » Wed May 09, 2018 8:01 pm

Hi,

As a few know I have a QUARK and looks like I will have some Sun today and I would like to know if I focus with an eyepiece, will the focus for a camera be the same or at least near ?

Thanks
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Re: HELP QUARK

Post by MalVeauX » Wed May 09, 2018 8:02 pm

It will be close in my experience, but not exact. I've had variation of up to about 1cm either way with different positions of my sensor for focus, relative to an eyepiece. Depends on how deep the nose goes, etc.

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Re: HELP QUARK

Post by PDB » Thu May 10, 2018 7:53 am

Rainer,

it is not varying that much. Think I have some difference of 5 mm more out-focus on the 80mm f/6. (did not measure on the 120, but the difference is also small)

Rgrds,

Paul

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Re: HELP QUARK

Post by MalVeauX » Thu May 10, 2018 2:52 pm

The fuzz are spicules if I recall :)

Some examples:

Image

Image

I focus on a surface feature with the camera at a high (near clipping off the right of the histogram) exposure value. I let the seeing show me what it's doing for a few seconds. If I see a sharp pencil drawing look, then I'm focused enough and I don't further change it for the time being, otherwise you can chase the seeing with focus all day. Then I change my exposure values for the limb/prominences (totally clipping the surface) to capture the spicules & proms as a separate exposure from the surface. I capture 300 frames of the proms/limb at one exposure value (usually 10ms, 99 gamma, and whatever gain it takes to see the proms, usually 150~180 at F35), then quickly change exposure to 10ms, 0 gamma, and reduced gain for the surface in the same position (often 50~80 gain at F35). I make a composite of the two later in post.

Very best,

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Re: HELP QUARK

Post by rsfoto » Thu May 10, 2018 2:57 pm

Hi Marty and Paul,

Thanks. I found focus yesterday by first using an eye piece and then sticking in the quark with an eye piece and then I exchanged the eye piece with the camera. Unfortunately the Sky conditions did not allow to get into perfect focus.

I was able to see the fur on the limb. What is it called correctly ?

The video I made did not come out as I had some wrong settings. That happens when one does not use it for a long time and one forgets how to set the software :oops:

Look at the image of the sky conditions :shock: Perhaps today it is better so I can keep testing it.

IMG_3630_C1.jpg
IMG_3630_C1.jpg (93.61 KiB) Viewed 1065 times
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Re: HELP QUARK

Post by rsfoto » Thu May 10, 2018 3:03 pm

MalVeauX wrote:
Thu May 10, 2018 2:52 pm
The fuzz are spicules if I recall :)

Some examples:

Image

Image

I focus on a surface feature with the camera at a high (near clipping off the right of the histogram) exposure value. I let the seeing show me what it's doing for a few seconds. If I see a sharp pencil drawing look, then I'm focused enough and I don't further change it for the time being, otherwise you can chase the seeing with focus all day. Then I change my exposure values for the limb/prominences (totally clipping the surface) to capture the spicules & proms as a separate exposure from the surface. I capture 300 frames of the proms/limb at one exposure value (usually 10ms, 99 gamma, and whatever gain it takes to see the proms, usually 150~180 at F35), then quickly change exposure to 10ms, 0 gamma, and reduced gain for the surface in the same position (often 50~80 gain at F35). I make a composite of the two later in post.

Very best,
Hi Marty,

Thanks for the info how you do it

Rainer
regards Rainer

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Re: HELP QUARK

Post by rsfoto » Thu May 10, 2018 10:53 pm

HI,

Well I found out how to focus my QUARK but the Sky thinks my QUARK is obsolete :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:
IMG_3645_C1.jpg
IMG_3645_C1.jpg (75.13 KiB) Viewed 1035 times
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Re: HELP QUARK

Post by Merlin66 » Fri May 11, 2018 11:55 am

The furry edge is the spiculation layer.
"Astronomical Spectroscopy - The Final Frontier" - to boldly go where few amateurs have gone before
https://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/ast ... scopy/info
"Astronomical Spectroscopy for Amateurs" and
"Imaging Sunlight - using a digital spectroheliograph" - Springer

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Re: HELP QUARK

Post by rsfoto » Fri May 11, 2018 1:16 pm

Merlin66 wrote:
Fri May 11, 2018 11:55 am
The furry edge is the spiculation layer.
Thank you :bow2
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Re: HELP QUARK

Post by rsfoto » Mon May 14, 2018 11:09 pm

Hi,

Continuing with this story well yesterday I manged to find th approx focus point but of course the details on the Sun where impossible so I just made a short test image. Looks like today I have a bit more of Sun.

But what I do not like are those very fine newton rings. I am using the Quark on a FS 78 with a Lumenera Infinity 2-1RM

Here is the very first Light image of the QUARK and the following days I need Sun and patience. It is a PITA not having an electric focuser on this sort of focal length 630 x 4.3 = 2700 mm :roll:
2018-05-13_18-54-55-1f_500.jpg
2018-05-13_18-54-55-1f_500.jpg (599.54 KiB) Viewed 916 times
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Re: HELP QUARK

Post by Merlin66 » Tue May 15, 2018 5:25 am

Rainer,
I’ve fitted the simple SW electronic focus motor to all myscopes -works very well for me.
"Astronomical Spectroscopy - The Final Frontier" - to boldly go where few amateurs have gone before
https://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/ast ... scopy/info
"Astronomical Spectroscopy for Amateurs" and
"Imaging Sunlight - using a digital spectroheliograph" - Springer

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Re: HELP QUARK

Post by PDB » Tue May 15, 2018 6:31 am

Hello Rainer,

electric focusers are not that difficult to build, and there are plenty of good designs to make a controller (inlcuded ascom) using arduinos with motorshields or steppermotor driver. The most difficult thing for me was making an attachment to the focuser. (I am a software man, not very handy in building stuff, maybe I need a 3D printer). I have used https://sourceforge.net/projects/arduin ... erpro2diy/ There is now also a version if you prefer DC motors https://sourceforge.net/projects/mydcfo ... dcfocuser/ (these work better than some crap I bought to automate my C8 with Crayford focuser)

The newton rings are easy to deal with. What I found is the higher the f/num the more chance of Newton rings. So a reducer after the Quark sometimes helps. Or just a little tilt. And there is also a software solution using Fast Fourier Transforms in Photoshop, Gimp or AstroImageJ.

To focus in difficult conditions I use the histogram. Aim at the solar limb, and you see a dip in the histogram. Then change focus and the dip will go up/down. When it is at its lowest point, you should be in focus.

But: was your Quark heated? Even wih bad atmosphere, there should be some detail visible. The image looks very pale.

Regards,

Paul

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Re: HELP QUARK

Post by Montana » Tue May 15, 2018 7:03 am

Yes I would be more concerned with the lack of surface detail than the NR at this moment!

Alexandra

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Re: HELP QUARK

Post by rsfoto » Tue May 15, 2018 2:47 pm

Merlin66 wrote:
Tue May 15, 2018 5:25 am
Rainer,
I’ve fitted the simple SW electronic focus motor to all myscopes -works very well for me.
Hi Ken,

I expressed myself unfortunately. What I wanted to say is that I still would ahve to put one of my focusers on the scope. I have all my scopes with own made focusers just the 2 telescopes I have at home are still not fitted with them

Look here how my focusers look like. I also have a motorized rotator on each telescope in the Observatory.
RS-Focus-BabyQ-00.jpg
RS-Focus-BabyQ-00.jpg (617.61 KiB) Viewed 852 times
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Re: HELP QUARK

Post by rsfoto » Tue May 15, 2018 2:51 pm

Montana wrote:
Tue May 15, 2018 7:03 am
Yes I would be more concerned with the lack of surface detail than the NR at this moment!

Alexandra
Hi Alexandra,

Same here I did not put enough Information. With that sort of Sky conditions I had I was happy to see the limb on the Sun and make Focus tests :seesaw So taking in consideration the Sky conditions there is not yet a reason to worry about it.

Yesterday it was better but still very high thin clouds which kill all sort of Details.

As I said I need a really clear sky but at the Moment I am happy being able to Focus. Yesterday I even saw a M shaped prominence but still bad sky conditions. I also saw some Details on the Sun surface as some Filaments but of course not the same as with my Observatory set up.
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Re: HELP QUARK

Post by rsfoto » Tue May 15, 2018 3:06 pm

PDB wrote:
Tue May 15, 2018 6:31 am
Hello Rainer,

electric focusers are not that difficult to build, and there are plenty of good designs to make a controller (inlcuded ascom) using arduinos with motorshields or steppermotor driver. The most difficult thing for me was making an attachment to the focuser. (I am a software man, not very handy in building stuff, maybe I need a 3D printer). I have used https://sourceforge.net/projects/arduin ... erpro2diy/ There is now also a version if you prefer DC motors https://sourceforge.net/projects/mydcfo ... dcfocuser/ (these work better than some crap I bought to automate my C8 with Crayford focuser)

The newton rings are easy to deal with. What I found is the higher the f/num the more chance of Newton rings. So a reducer after the Quark sometimes helps. Or just a little tilt. And there is also a software solution using Fast Fourier Transforms in Photoshop, Gimp or AstroImageJ.

To focus in difficult conditions I use the histogram. Aim at the solar limb, and you see a dip in the histogram. Then change focus and the dip will go up/down. When it is at its lowest point, you should be in focus.

But: was your Quark heated? Even wih bad atmosphere, there should be some detail visible. The image looks very pale.

Regards,

Paul
Hi Paul,

Yes the QUARK was heated and yes, yesterday I started to see Details on the suns surface and also at the limb some hints of Spicules. The weather is really not cooperating and when I ahve Chance to get the into into the QUARK it starts at an altitude of about 29° so I know those are also not the best conditions as poiunting onto the zenith as I can in my Observatory.

On Thursday 17th I will be in the Observatory for a few days and test it on my FSQ 85 up to the zenith.
Fast Fourier Transforms in Photoshop
¿ where do I find that and how does that work in Photoshop ? I have PS CS6

The image acquisition Software i have Lucam Recorder has a function where I can use the contrast for focusing. I choose a window and there I look at the highest value and there it should be in focus.

Rainer
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Re: HELP QUARK

Post by PDB » Tue May 15, 2018 4:21 pm

Hi Rainer,

here is a thread on CN https://www.cloudynights.com/topic/5944 ... om-images/

I find this one very detailed but complicated

In another thread (unfortunately in Dutch) you can see it can be done simpler https://www.astroforum.nl/forum/astrofo ... -oplossing just look at the pictures of the FFT and invere FFT

So you need a Fast Fourier Transformation filter
-> do the de FFT on the image -> search for the errors usually seen fairly clear as defaults in the pattern.
Just wipe them out an do an inverse FFT. After some training you can obtain very good results.

P.

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Re: HELP QUARK

Post by rsfoto » Tue May 15, 2018 4:37 pm

PDB wrote:
Tue May 15, 2018 4:21 pm
Hi Rainer,

here is a thread on CN https://www.cloudynights.com/topic/5944 ... om-images/

I find this one very detailed but complicated

In another thread (unfortunately in Dutch) you can see it can be done simpler https://www.astroforum.nl/forum/astrofo ... -oplossing just look at the pictures of the FFT and invere FFT

So you need a Fast Fourier Transformation filter
-> do the de FFT on the image -> search for the errors usually seen fairly clear as defaults in the pattern.
Just wipe them out an do an inverse FFT. After some training you can obtain very good results.

P.
Hi Paul,

Will try to replicate it.

Question, would something like a little optical window with a tilt in the optical path take away the Newton Rings ?

Just guessing :mrgreen:
Last edited by rsfoto on Tue May 15, 2018 8:13 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: HELP QUARK

Post by rsfoto » Tue May 15, 2018 4:54 pm

PDB wrote:
Tue May 15, 2018 4:56 pm
Wat works is a prism in the optical path (that is also mentioned in the Dutch explanation). I did some tests with a ZWO ADC and that also works. Actually what that does, since you only work in 1 frequency) it tilts the focal plane instead of the camera. Same effect.

P
Hi Paul,

AH, I understand and so a parallell optical surface would only shift the rings a bit to the side.

I will test if the thread of the C-Mount Adapter allows a tiny tilt by putting a shim on one side and tightening it and so the camera is tilted. Hopefully I get some Sun today :mrgreen:

That ZWO ADC is quite big, I have 3 ZWO cameras on the way to me. I guess I will get them in a few weeks.

Rainer
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Re: HELP QUARK

Post by PDB » Tue May 15, 2018 4:56 pm

Wat works is a prism in the optical path (that is also mentioned in the Dutch explanation). I did some tests with a ZWO ADC and that also works. Actually what that does, since you only work in 1 frequency) it tilts the focal plane instead of the camera. Same effect.

P

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Re: HELP QUARK

Post by rsfoto » Tue May 15, 2018 7:14 pm

Hi,

Yesterday 14th I got this with this skies. I think I am getting closer :mrgreen:
2018-05-14_18-30-06-1f_500.jpg
2018-05-14_18-30-06-1f_500.jpg (792.49 KiB) Viewed 822 times
IMG_3671_C1.jpg
IMG_3671_C1.jpg (120.35 KiB) Viewed 822 times
Today's forecast looks good but this can change quickly in Mexico City
SunForecast_15052018.JPG
SunForecast_15052018.JPG (171.85 KiB) Viewed 822 times
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Re: HELP QUARK

Post by rsfoto » Tue May 15, 2018 8:45 pm

Hi Paul,

I downloaded Fiji and tried on an image but I just can not get the rings out of it. Quite difficult.

Look at the screen shot of the test image and the FFT result. I do not know where to exactly mark the lines. I did take the 2 little slightly diagonal lines but no, does not work :?
FFT_Fiji.JPG
FFT_Fiji.JPG (302.52 KiB) Viewed 810 times
and here the original image in TIF
2018-05-15_15-04-28-1f_500_BW.tif
2018-05-15_15-04-28-1f_500_BW.tif (2.76 MiB) Viewed 809 times
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Re: HELP QUARK

Post by PDB » Wed May 16, 2018 5:52 am

Hi Rainer,

took the liberty to download your image with the NR's

Tried to do it in GIMP (Fiji can sometimes be cumbersome to do something) and had some problems too. The image was saved in RGB (could be because of the dowload) When I converted it to grey it worked better. (Never had good results with color images, I only used it on monochrome)

So this is what I did and the result. Not perfect yet (still some issues in the bacground, but the disc looks ok. Probably a spike still needs to get blackened)
Test.png
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Re: HELP QUARK

Post by rsfoto » Wed May 16, 2018 3:52 pm

Thank you Paul,

Yhe attached Image is a bit small and I cant see the difference between my original and the FFT processed Image.

Today afternoon I will show you what Fiji ImageJ makes. Also will download GIMP and see how it works,

About the Image being colour yes you are right. The fact is that I am applying a false colur mask in realtime when streaming my videos and it is saved as an RGB Image. I noticed that when ImageJ gave me some advice about processing colour channel 1. I then converted the image into B&W and it ran but with weird results.

I will post one later on.

Rainer
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Re: HELP QUARK

Post by MalVeauX » Wed May 16, 2018 3:53 pm

rsfoto wrote:
Tue May 15, 2018 7:14 pm
Hi,

Yesterday 14th I got this with this skies. I think I am getting closer :mrgreen:

Today's forecast looks good but this can change quickly in Mexico City

Just a thought, but if you're shooting through window glass, I'm wondering if that will play a role in this?

Very best,
Last edited by MalVeauX on Wed May 16, 2018 4:27 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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