PST stage 4. The X-truder

Frankenscope? Let's see it!***be advised that NOTHING in this forum has been safety tested and you are reading and using these posts at your own peril. blah, blah, blah... dont mess around with your eyesight when it comes to solar astronomy. Use appropriate filtration at all times...
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PST stage 4. The X-truder

Post by TheSkyBurner » Thu May 24, 2018 12:22 am

Just a teaser! Still under the microscope.

Reverse Refractor X-Truder Telescope


two objectives from K-line pst's and a 100mm fluorite doublet.

This will also work with the PST h-alpha gold tubes.

This is completely modular and any amount of filters, or lenses/barlows/positives/negatives/fields/slits can be installed anywhere at anytime.
You'll recognize the 58mm / 52mm conversion tubes attached directly to the first PST objective.

This is by no means limited to one extrusion. If you can think laterally you can have two more x-truder telescopes assemble together like a puzzle piece in the shape of a honeycomb.

The X-truder is practically already built for you, here is a link to the exact tripod used. Just use a 2" hole saw in the back and get the first two mirrors installed using standard 2" eyepiece adapters. Dont skimp here, get the ones with brass compression rings!!!

https://www.ebay.com/itm/Meade-Telescop ... 3028480012
https://www.ebay.com/itm/MEADE-ETX-70-R ... 3047512918
One can hit 10,000mm with no alignment issues no problem with the right patience.
pst extruder 1.jpg
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pst extruder 2.jpg
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pst extruder 3.jpg
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pst extruder 4.jpg
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Last edited by TheSkyBurner on Fri Jun 08, 2018 2:06 am, edited 3 times in total.

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Re: PST stage 4. The X-truder

Post by TheSkyBurner » Thu May 24, 2018 12:25 am

The X-truder is made with a meade ETX tripod.

These are the legs.

https://www.ebay.com/itm/Meade-Aluminum ... 2660152609

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Re: PST stage 4. The X-truder

Post by TheSkyBurner » Thu May 24, 2018 12:30 am

You are also going to need some alignment rings anyways just to hold your objective on, and anything else you need to balance.

https://www.ebay.com/itm/Astro-Optics-1 ... 1158262833

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Re: PST stage 4. The X-truder

Post by TheSkyBurner » Thu May 24, 2018 3:05 am

If you want to incorporate high quality components to make this a high quality device; I highly recommend using TWO baader planetarium 2" click lock right angle dielectric mirror's setup for primary reversal section. These have IR/UV cut built into the mirror surface and this is incredibly useful with this kind of system. This also allows immediate installation of additional 2" energy rejection filter's. (DUAL K-ERF section.)

https://www.baader-planetarium.com/en/b ... irror.html
Clicklock IRUV.PNG
Clicklock IRUV.PNG (7.77 KiB) Viewed 595 times
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Re: PST stage 4. The X-truder

Post by marktownley » Thu May 24, 2018 5:03 am

Cool mod!
Image
http://brierleyhillsolar.blogspot.co.uk/
Solar images, a collection of all the most up to date live solar data on the web, imaging & processing tutorials - please take a look!

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Re: PST stage 4. The X-truder

Post by TheSkyBurner » Mon Jun 04, 2018 6:05 am

had a little time to work on the extruder a bit more today, I estimated the placement of the first Calcium objective. I will calibrate it to the proper distance when I get another day of sun.

Skybender 1 has ERF one which is a baader planetarium 2" B-CCD filter
Skybender 2 has ERF two which is a narrow 1.25" 393.4nm bandpass filter

CaK objective 1 is exactly 39.5 inches away from the primary 100mm objective; this distance will modified to find the optimal correction for blue light, and also a reasonable amount of magnification.

Cak objective 2 is estimated to be retro-reflected at about 60 inches or 1500mm .

link to full size LARGE image
download/file.php?id=32034
PST stage 4 extruder with skybenders.jpg
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Re: PST stage 4. The X-truder

Post by TheSkyBurner » Mon Jun 04, 2018 9:10 pm

(6-6-2018 update) *I HAVE MADE A MISTAKE, AND THE MAGIC NUMBER IS NOW VISUALLY CONFIRMED TO BE 10 SPACERS!!*
PST Objective is still reversed
18 inches from focus = 5x magnification (9 spacers)
19 inches from focus = 4x magnification (10 spacers)
This information is valid for all PST objectives

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Please note the section in red contains incorrect information and being kept for reference only!
Found a good working distance for CaK-1, Placement is 24 inches from Objective-1 solar focus point with the PST objective reversed so that the dew-shield faces opposite to objective-1.

The negative image is 500mm away from mirror two which is well within mounting range of the second guide rings.

----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

(6-6-2018 update) Incorrect information in the picture labels below, the original distance should be used - Reference Only!
new position of cak1.jpg
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IMG_4720.GIF
IMG_4720.GIF (8.68 MiB) Viewed 450 times
Last edited by TheSkyBurner on Wed Jun 06, 2018 6:34 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: PST stage 4. The X-truder

Post by TheSkyBurner » Tue Jun 05, 2018 12:20 am

started working with the second objective to find the refocus area, however I ran into a snag with the baader planetarium B-ccd filter creating some kind of intensity ray reflection that vaporizes air moisture.




x-truder reverse refractor double pst objective.jpg
x-truder reverse refractor double pst objective.jpg (531.35 KiB) Viewed 447 times
There is a nice blue sun in the second objective currently, but this is not the correct distance..
blue light.jpg
blue light.jpg (196.87 KiB) Viewed 447 times

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Re: PST stage 4. The X-truder

Post by TheSkyBurner » Wed Jun 06, 2018 6:19 am

Okay! Tonight I was doing a test with spacing. I was looking at a neighbors lamp to visually confirm system magnification in comparison with a 8" F/10 2030mm SCT. (using a 25mm eyepiece and the baader planetarium b-ccd filter)

Now admitting to a mistake with my first assessment of the magnification a couple days ago because, I did not visually test it.

I have determined magnification to be greater using my original spacing; With Pst-1 10 spacers away from the OTA focus. This was right the first time and was where I had actually placed it as shown a couple posts ago.

With 10 spacers behind the focus, I am now confidently getting the same magnification as the 2030mm sct ;
With 15 spacers I got almost zero magnification! (oops!)

<------This is now 100% confirmed ------> 10 spacers = f/20 on a 100 x 500mm objective <4x magnification, perfect focus>

Now knowing this and by using less spacers, the negative image distance increases. This will now require two additional mirrors for redirecting the final image plane. The new mirror section will need spacer tubes and a couple more scope rings to keep everything aligned in a tunnel. I will get the exact number as soon as I can.

10 spacers = the magic number! (its actually 11 spacers if you are not using a 2" eyepiece holder)
9 spacers = 5x f/25, (tested this to make sure I could still focus)
8 spacers estimated @ 6x (this is way too long for me to actually test)

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Re: PST stage 4. The X-truder

Post by TheSkyBurner » Thu Jun 07, 2018 12:48 am

Today I added a different pair scope rings, and 1 additional frame support across the middle section to accommodate the new section.

For reference of how long the negative image light tunnel is going to be I have placed 45 extension tubes on top.


The next step from here is to adapt two more 90 degree mirrors, one 2" extension barrel to match the height of the extension light tunnel, one more frame support and two more guide rings to hold the final stage.

I also need to get longer bolts for my guide rings because they are currently too short for holding a 52mm diameter optical tube.

Now that I am at this point i should be able to connect a camera up to the end of the light tunnel and get an actual usable image out of this :)
new guide  rings added.jpg
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long scope.jpg
long scope.jpg (337.42 KiB) Viewed 377 times

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Re: PST stage 4. The X-truder

Post by TheSkyBurner » Thu Jun 07, 2018 9:21 pm

Check out this negative beam, that blue color is amazing!
001.jpg
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002.jpg
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003.jpg
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004.jpg
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solar blue beam negative image.GIF
solar blue beam negative image.GIF (10.26 MiB) Viewed 353 times

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Re: PST stage 4. The X-truder

Post by TheSkyBurner » Thu Jun 07, 2018 9:23 pm

The new solar image is projected 59 inches (1500mm) away from the second mirror surface. and is about 35mm in diamater
51 inches away from second mirror surface B.jpg
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51 inches away from second mirror surface A.jpg
51 inches away from second mirror surface A.jpg (140.74 KiB) Viewed 353 times

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Re: PST stage 4. The X-truder

Post by TheSkyBurner » Thu Jun 07, 2018 9:27 pm

Here is a look down the blue light tunnel
blue sun A.jpg
blue sun A.jpg (199.45 KiB) Viewed 353 times
blue sun b.jpg
blue sun b.jpg (76.92 KiB) Viewed 353 times

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Re: PST stage 4. The X-truder

Post by TheSkyBurner » Thu Jun 07, 2018 9:37 pm

Today I added a very special Oriel uv only reflecting mirror that sends all infrared energy into a heatsink, these are very hard to acquire and I am currently looking for a second one... https://www.newport.com/p/81045
https://www.newport.com/p/66245

I also attached my Gold skybender to this area in case I want to add some other filter here
gold skybender and oriel heatsink B.jpg
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gold skybender and oriel heatsink A.jpg
gold skybender and oriel heatsink A.jpg (149.12 KiB) Viewed 353 times
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Re: PST stage 4. The X-truder

Post by TheSkyBurner » Sun Jun 10, 2018 11:41 pm

After looking at some schematics is has come to my attention that this assembly is now easily adaptable to become a spectro-helio-scope with very little modification to the design.

Image

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Re: PST stage 4. The X-truder

Post by TheSkyBurner » Sat Jun 16, 2018 6:53 am

So i added the final turn to see where the refocused image plane will be. I need one or two more alignment rings, and two more stepping rings to make everything totally solid, square and stationary..

Soon, I can attach an SCT focuser and get my first image out of the double stacked pst cak modded gold skybender. The narrow band CaK filters are in the collimated f/28 beam coming out of the first CaK objective and going into the second Cak gold tube..

The refocus plane, going out of the second CaK objective will probably bring the system back down to f/20 or f/15.
pst stage 4 xtruder f28 path.jpg
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pst stage 4 xtruder f28.jpg
pst stage 4 xtruder f28.jpg (435.77 KiB) Viewed 197 times

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Re: PST stage 4. The X-truder

Post by MalVeauX » Sat Jun 16, 2018 8:00 pm

Getting interesting! Looking forward to seeing the image results!

Very best,

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Re: PST stage 4. The X-truder

Post by Merlin66 » Sun Jun 17, 2018 1:11 am

To turn it into a digital spectroheliograph you don't need an exit slit on the spectrograph section....in fact a Littrow spectrograph design would be cheaper and probably more efficient.
viewtopic.php?f=8&t=20682
"Astronomical Spectroscopy - The Final Frontier" - to boldly go where few amateurs have gone before
https://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/ast ... scopy/info
"Astronomical Spectroscopy for Amateurs" and
"Imaging Sunlight - using a digital spectroheliograph" - Springer

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Re: PST stage 4. The X-truder

Post by TheSkyBurner » Sun Jun 17, 2018 2:06 am

I happened to find a couple parts lost in a drawer that let me connect the sct focuser! I still need the extra guide rings and downsizer rings to make things final.

i now need a lighter focuser too, this williams optics thing is a pretty lead weight..... Built unnecessarily heavy for some reason!
sct focuser on pst xtruder.jpg
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sct focuser on pst xtruder b.jpg
sct focuser on pst xtruder b.jpg (182.89 KiB) Viewed 165 times

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Re: PST stage 4. The X-truder

Post by TheSkyBurner » Sun Jun 17, 2018 7:51 am

So here is how i make sure everything is lined up straight. Just use a bubble level and check each sectional piece before and after your alignment rings. Once all the extension tubes are level with each other, they are perfectly parallel to each other and optically straight with each lens and mirror. You make the fine adjustment by using the thumbscrews in the alignment rings. Fine threaded thumb screws induce sensitivity control with less than 1mm accuracy.

bubble level alignment A.jpg
bubble level alignment A.jpg (168.46 KiB) Viewed 146 times
bubble level alignment B.jpg
bubble level alignment B.jpg (136.73 KiB) Viewed 146 times

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Re: PST stage 4. The X-truder

Post by Merlin66 » Sun Jun 17, 2018 8:24 am

I think you’ll find a laser collimator is much more accurate.
"Astronomical Spectroscopy - The Final Frontier" - to boldly go where few amateurs have gone before
https://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/ast ... scopy/info
"Astronomical Spectroscopy for Amateurs" and
"Imaging Sunlight - using a digital spectroheliograph" - Springer

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Re: PST stage 4. The X-truder

Post by TheSkyBurner » Sun Jun 17, 2018 9:04 am

ill have to pick one up, which would you recommend?

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Re: PST stage 4. The X-truder

Post by Merlin66 » Sun Jun 17, 2018 10:02 am

I ended up making my own based on a laser pointer and a 1.25” extension.
This proved to be more accurate than the commercial unit.
"Astronomical Spectroscopy - The Final Frontier" - to boldly go where few amateurs have gone before
https://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/ast ... scopy/info
"Astronomical Spectroscopy for Amateurs" and
"Imaging Sunlight - using a digital spectroheliograph" - Springer

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Re: PST stage 4. The X-truder

Post by TheSkyBurner » Sun Jun 17, 2018 9:24 pm

having a little difficulty with the gold tube attached to my focuser, it is just slightly too long. It currently produces too little infocus for where I want it, so I removed it. Going to be using the bare objective now so that I have total control over the final focus plane..

I did pull an image out of the scope however, and it has an insane amount of dust bunnies. I will do some intense cleaning tonight. This image is out of both 81045 mirrors only, no other filters. So it is basically broadband UV of red bricks and a white window frame

Once cleaning is complete I will point this at the sun!

a focal reducer was attached to the camera nosepiece.
first image.jpg
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pst objective 48mm 52mm.jpg
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Re: PST stage 4. The X-truder

Post by TheSkyBurner » Sun Jun 17, 2018 11:08 pm

unfortunately i just put a nice stress fracture on the plastic support joint , so now i have to create a new one out of metal. I was switching out the UV mirrors with the standard mirrors to get a comparison image when I heard a loud crack. Luckily nothing fell.

should be a simple push/pull brace fix, but this has knocked me down out of service for a couple days. I may end up just replacing all the corner joints since they are all plastic.

will be back with updates as soon as i can! Not giving up on this after getting so far....
stress fracture.jpg
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