Ha Quantum filter PE 0.4Å

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Ha Quantum filter PE 0.4Å

Post by rsfoto » Sat Aug 11, 2018 5:24 pm

Hi,

Sorry if I have not been active here lately but I was remodeling my observatory and a couple of days ago I finished doing it. I had to setup to huge CE120EC2 as well as cable everything again. Also 2 new PCs have a new home and you know new PCs are always new problems :lol: Added some images of the new Obs below. Thanks for reading and looking.

Well finally I finished and started to test my new acquired Quantum Ha filter but I have not yet had the WOW moment with the filter.

I mounted it on a TOA 130 with an ERF of 130mm. Thanks to Eric Roel who explained me how to find the focus point I managed to get the correct extension tubes for the 4X Powermate, Quantum and ASI 1600MM Pro camera.

But now come the disappointment. Sop far I have not been able to see those alleged georgous details. The Quantum is a PE grade 0.4Å filter.

Below 4 links to some videos I was able to stream.

My suspicion is that the ASI 1600MM Pro is not the correct camera or the software I am using is not the correct one.

Another suspicion is that not being able to adjust Gamma, Contrast and Brightness is limiting me.

The last suspicion but hat one I will rule out is a defective filter ? which I do not believe as Jen asured me she tested it thoroughly. I am using the filter at an altitude of 1950 meters over sea level. Eric Roel told me that has an influence too. He uses one at about 2200 m and he gets great images.

I also have a small ASI 120MM. I will try that one too.

I have tested the camera with SharpCap as well as AsiCap and with both I get the same bad results.

Unfortunately I can not hook up my well known Lumenera Infinity 2-2M which I use on my Double stacked Coronado SM 60 in order to test it and so be sure what the problem is.

Also the Newton rings are mortal.

Appreciate any help in order to get better results.

Thanks and regards Rainer

https://vimeo.com/284515271

https://vimeo.com/284517375

https://vimeo.com/284516502

https://vimeo.com/284517115
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Last edited by rsfoto on Sun Aug 12, 2018 6:18 pm, edited 3 times in total.
regards Rainer

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Re: Ha Quantum filter PE 0.4Å

Post by MalVeauX » Sat Aug 11, 2018 6:08 pm

Lovely setups.

From the videos, it does look like your issues are probably software related. Not the camera. It's likely the drivers of the camera and compatibility with the software. I've had a bunch of people reach out to me about using SharpCap and not having access to gamma, etc, with various cameras that were not "officially" supported, but worked in other applications with standard drivers. Then they use a "supported" camera and driver set and everything was available (gamma, etc). It almost looks to me like the gamma is set very high here (noting the haze glow off the disc which shouldn't be happening at 0.4A, other than software/setting exposure values introducing the glow such as when using really high gamma). Just my thoughts anyways.

Lovely setups!

Very best,

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Re: Ha Quantum filter PE 0.4Å

Post by rsfoto » Sat Aug 11, 2018 7:05 pm

MalVeauX wrote:
Sat Aug 11, 2018 6:08 pm
Lovely setups.

From the videos, it does look like your issues are probably software related. Not the camera. It's likely the drivers of the camera and compatibility with the software. I've had a bunch of people reach out to me about using SharpCap and not having access to gamma, etc, with various cameras that were not "officially" supported, but worked in other applications with standard drivers. Then they use a "supported" camera and driver set and everything was available (gamma, etc). It almost looks to me like the gamma is set very high here (noting the haze glow off the disc which shouldn't be happening at 0.4A, other than software/setting exposure values introducing the glow such as when using really high gamma). Just my thoughts anyways.

Lovely setups!

Very best,
Hi Marty,

Thanks. I can find that out when I have the adapters to connect my Old and Trustworthy Lumenera Infinity 2-2M with Lucam Recorder.

This will take a few weeks tog et the threaded adaters from M42 to C-Mount

I am at the moment testing FireCapture and that one look a bit better. In a few moments I can upload the videos.

:bow2

regards Rainer
regards Rainer

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Re: Ha Quantum filter PE 0.4Å

Post by rsfoto » Sat Aug 11, 2018 7:52 pm

Hi Marty,

This is a video with FireCapture from today

https://vimeo.com/284530024

regards
regards Rainer

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Re: Ha Quantum filter PE 0.4Å

Post by PDB » Sat Aug 11, 2018 8:47 pm

Rainer,

can you post the firecapture recording log (capturename.txt) file with the capture settings? And which version of FC are you using? Think you should use minimum v2.6 x64 (after installing first the latest ZWO camera drivers (V3.0.0.4) Check on https://astronomy-imaging-camera.com/software-drivers


Those videos are indeed not what I would expect. With the Quark it also happens that you see almost no detail, this usually happens with very thin high clouds. So how were atmospheric conditions? (moisture in the air?)

Rgrds,

Paul

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Re: Ha Quantum filter PE 0.4Å

Post by rsfoto » Sat Aug 11, 2018 9:25 pm

PDB wrote:
Sat Aug 11, 2018 8:47 pm
Rainer,

can you post the firecapture recording log (capturename.txt) file with the capture settings? And which version of FC are you using? Think you should use minimum v2.6 x64 (after installing first the latest ZWO camera drivers (V3.0.0.4) Check on https://astronomy-imaging-camera.com/software-drivers


Those videos are indeed not what I would expect. With the Quark it also happens that you see almost no detail, this usually happens with very thin high clouds. So how were atmospheric conditions? (moisture in the air?)

Rgrds,

Paul
Hi Paul,

Thank you for the info. I downloaded the latest version today for 64bit v 2.6.08

Well yes, the sky was not completely clean. Will have to wait for absolute clean sky. With my double stacked Coronado SM 60 the sort of atmospheric conditions I had would be no problem but I guess in this case it is different ¿ or ?

regards
FireCapture v2.6 Settings
------------------------------------
Camera=ZWO ASI1600MM Pro
Filter=L
Profile=Sun
Filename=Sun_135857.avi
Date=110818
Start=135851.673
Mid=135857.343
End=135903.013
Start(UT)=185851.673
Mid(UT)=185857.343
End(UT)=185903.013
Duration=11.340s
Date_format=ddMMyy
Time_format=HHmmss
LT=UT -6h
Frames captured=100
File type=AVI
Extended AVI mode=true
Compressed AVI=false
Binning=no
ROI=4656x3520
ROI(Offset)=0x0
FPS (avg.)=8
Shutter=17.96ms
Gain=139 (23%)
SoftwareGain=10 (off)
AutoExposure=off
AutoHisto=75 (off)
FPS=100 (off)
AutoGain=off
Gamma=50
USBTraffic=100 (off)
HighSpeed=off
TargetTemp=0 (off)
Brightness=0 (off)
FixPattern=0 (off)
HardwareBin=off
Histogramm(min)=22
Histogramm(max)=255
Histogramm=100%
Noise(avg.deviation)=n/a
Limit=100 Frames
Sensor temperature=41.5°C
regards Rainer

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Re: Ha Quantum filter PE 0.4Å

Post by rsfoto » Sat Aug 11, 2018 10:45 pm

Hi,

After turning around my whole Observatory I found some adapter rings in order to connect my Inifnity 2-2M camera. This will change a bit the focus point but know knowing how to find it that is no problem.

My Inifnity has an adapter for Canon EF Lenses and that one fits into a Takahashi Wide T-Mount ring which has an inner M52 x 0.75 female thread and that thread I ahve at the end of the Quantum Filter :seesaw

So I hope tomorrow I have some Sun and so I can find out how the adjustments for Gamma, Contrast and brightness would help. If it does I will put on sale my two ASI cameras ( Asi 1600MM Pro and an ASI 071MC Pro) and buy a good and big Lumenera Infinity :band

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Re: Ha Quantum filter PE 0.4Å

Post by danpro1 » Sat Aug 11, 2018 10:54 pm

Hi Rainer,
I use FirecCapture with an ASI1600MM on the Sun as well. I suggest that you reduce the gain to 0 and adjust the exposure for a good histogram. Increasing the gain above zero gradually ads grainy noise to the picture. Looks like sometimes you have good details like on Vimeo 284516502, but you have low contrast; push contrast to maximum to see better momentarily to check. I cannot talk about your filter, as I have Coronado and Meade.
Good luck,
Daniel

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Re: Ha Quantum filter PE 0.4Å

Post by rsfoto » Sat Aug 11, 2018 11:16 pm

danpro1 wrote:
Sat Aug 11, 2018 10:54 pm
Hi Rainer,
I use FirecCapture with an ASI1600MM on the Sun as well. I suggest that you reduce the gain to 0 and adjust the exposure for a good histogram. Increasing the gain above zero gradually ads grainy noise to the picture. Looks like sometimes you have good details like on Vimeo 284516502, but you have low contrast; push contrast to maximum to see better momentarily to check. I cannot talk about your filter, as I have Coronado and Meade.
Good luck,
Daniel
Hi Daniel,

Thanks for your comment. Where do I find the contrast adjustment in FireCapture ? Looked already everywhere and do not find it

regards
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Re: Ha Quantum filter PE 0.4Å

Post by rsfoto » Sun Aug 12, 2018 1:01 am

Hi,

This is the setup with the yellow ERF and the ASI 160MM Pro camera
IMG_3864_C1.jpg
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IMG_3865_C1.jpg
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Then I found the Canon EF adapter solution for connecting my Lumenera cameras
IMG_3866_C1.jpg
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While looking on one of my drawers there was a 2 piece adapter which I did not remember for what I used it. I measured both male threads and guess what ? One side is M42x0.75 and the other side is 1" 32tpi which is C-Mount thread

:seesaw

Here an image how much shorter this solution is
IMG_3869_C1.jpg
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So tomorrow I can test if I have clear Sunshine and see what is the difference when having a camera with Gain, Gamma, Contrast and Brightness adjustement as the Lumenera camer with the Lucam Recorder software allows to do it.
regards Rainer

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Re: Ha Quantum filter PE 0.4Å

Post by PDB » Sun Aug 12, 2018 6:47 am

Hi Rainer,

Some comments on the settings:
- gamma 50 is ok. For ZWO that means neutral on no gamma correction applied. That is what I prefer.
- Exposure time is almost 18 ms. That seems very long. Is the quantum giving such dark images?
- Gain setting looks ok to me although not familiar with the ASI1600.
- Your histogram seems to be very much to the right so you are loosing data (blown out highlights)

Did you try the "more" button in FireCapture. It will show some settings specific to the camera that is used
MoreButton.JPG
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For screen viewing use the SreenAdjust button. This enables to alter what you see in the preview windows without touching the camera settings.
(Watch out and look to the histogram for exposure, because what you see is NOT what you get)

Also woul recommend the "Emil Kraaikamp noise indicator) That will give an indication about signal/noise in the recording
Ruis.JPG
Ruis.JPG (45.4 KiB) Viewed 698 times
sorry for the screendumps in Dutch, but FC seems to adapt to my system language setting. (Could find a setting for that yet)

Paul
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Re: Ha Quantum filter PE 0.4Å

Post by Derek Klepp » Sun Aug 12, 2018 11:47 am

Rainer great setups.I feel your frustration but stick with it.It always takes a while to get new setups up and running.
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Re: Ha Quantum filter PE 0.4Å

Post by rsfoto » Sun Aug 12, 2018 5:45 pm

Thank you Paul and Derek.

Will keep trying and after 2 weeks I will throw it against the wall :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:
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Re: Ha Quantum filter PE 0.4Å

Post by rsfoto » Sun Aug 12, 2018 6:17 pm

marktownley wrote:
Sun Aug 12, 2018 6:18 pm
Wow! That's a really nice setup Rainer!
Thank you Mark.
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Re: Ha Quantum filter PE 0.4Å

Post by marktownley » Sun Aug 12, 2018 6:18 pm

Wow! That's a really nice setup Rainer!
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Re: Ha Quantum filter PE 0.4Å

Post by PDB » Sun Aug 12, 2018 6:22 pm

Will keep trying and after 2 weeks I will throw it against the wall
don't throw it against the wall. Throw it far enough so it lands on my desk :D

P

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Re: Ha Quantum filter PE 0.4Å

Post by Valery » Sun Aug 12, 2018 6:25 pm

It is difficult for me to understand the usefulness of a yellow ERF. Close to nothing, I believe. A red ERF with IR cut coating is what is really need for H-a imaging.
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Re: Ha Quantum filter PE 0.4Å

Post by rsfoto » Sun Aug 12, 2018 9:10 pm

Valery wrote:
Sun Aug 12, 2018 6:25 pm
It is difficult for me to understand the usefulness of a yellow ERF. Close to nothing, I believe. A red ERF with IR cut coating is what is really need for H-a imaging.
Hi Valery,

Can not answer your ¿ question ? but that is what I got from Daystar. I did not order a Yellow ERF. Daystar decided to send me a Yellow one. The reason ¿ I do not know ? Sorry :roll:

Now that you mention that, I will send them an e-mail asking why Yellow and not red ...

regards
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Re: Ha Quantum filter PE 0.4Å

Post by PDB » Sun Aug 12, 2018 9:18 pm

for what it's worth this is what Daystar says on their website: http://www.daystarfilters.com/inout_art ... -ERF-Glass

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Re: Ha Quantum filter PE 0.4Å

Post by rsfoto » Sun Aug 12, 2018 9:19 pm

Hi,

Well @Paul I am getting closer to get results. As I found a way to connect my Lumenera Infinity cameras to the ERF I tried some imging today. COndirions by no means cristal clear but having quite some experience with my double stacked Coronado filters I was able to judge if this setup with the Lumenera cameras would give me better results or no.

Well I will not throw it against the wall after what I saw today as imaging result. Not yet to what I expect but based on the results of today I am confident when having good clear sky the results will be good.

The Infinity 2-1RM I used is a CCD Microscopy camera with 1392x1040 pixels and a pixel size of 4.65 micron and runs at 30 fps. This gives me an FOV of 5' 34" x 4' 09".

Here the best video from today. I am satisfied taking into considertaion the atmospheric conditions I had today, This was done using the false mask feature of Lucam Recorder. Tested aldo SharpCap, FireCapture and AsiCap but do not like them ... :?

https://vimeo.com/284630562
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Re: Ha Quantum filter PE 0.4Å

Post by rsfoto » Sun Aug 12, 2018 9:25 pm

PDB wrote:
Sun Aug 12, 2018 9:18 pm
for what it's worth this is what Daystar says on their website: http://www.daystarfilters.com/inout_art ... -ERF-Glass
Hi Paul,

Thanks, never occured to me to make a search in there website. Knowing that Daystar has experience with all the products they produce I wondered when I got a Yellow one and trusting that they know what they it never came to my moind to doubt about the color they send me ...

So I now do not need to ask them via e-mail.

regards
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Re: Ha Quantum filter PE 0.4Å

Post by eroel » Sun Aug 12, 2018 11:14 pm

Rainer:
I use a yellow ERF from Daystar and it works very good for my 102mm f/7 Stellarvue refractor fitted with a 4X Baader telecentric and the 0.45A° Daystar T-scanner.
I think that you will be able to get good results with your old Lumenera and L-R software, we are used to them. :)
The animations look a bit out of focus and not on band, I believe you have had as me a lot of high haze these days, that does not help much, specially if you are dealing with a long focal setup to get the f/30 cone of light before the Daystar.
Fuerte abrazo,
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Re: Ha Quantum filter PE 0.4Å

Post by Montana » Mon Aug 13, 2018 11:57 am

It looks badly off band to me, it is clear to see the double limb and the spicule shape of 'in the wings'. Have you tried changing the temperature?

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Re: Ha Quantum filter PE 0.4Å

Post by rsfoto » Mon Aug 13, 2018 2:49 pm

Montana wrote:
Mon Aug 13, 2018 11:57 am
It looks badly off band to me, it is clear to see the double limb and the spicule shape of 'in the wings'. Have you tried changing the temperature?

Alexandra
Hi Alexandra and all others,

Thanks for you helpful comments which are making me go ahead and not throw it up to Belgium :lol: :lol: :lol: ¿ right Paul ?

Yes that is true. The first success was to get it into focus. The second was to see at least a bit of detail which you can see in the video but the weather conditions were absolutely no good so I need to wait for better sky.

About temperature that is the next problem. I saw yesterday that in my area it is taking long time to cool down or nearly it does not cool down. I think I will have to add some fans to cool it down. Yesterday the Quantum remained for a very long time at 6563.0Å and the light was yellow. I had it adjusted to 6562.8Å.

As of now it is cloudy so I will look for some ideas how to add a fan to the Quantum.

Saludos Rainer
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Re: Ha Quantum filter PE 0.4Å

Post by marktownley » Mon Aug 13, 2018 3:11 pm

rsfoto wrote:
Mon Aug 13, 2018 2:49 pm

About temperature that is the next problem. I saw yesterday that in my area it is taking long time to cool down or nearly it does not cool down. I think I will have to add some fans to cool it down. Yesterday the Quantum remained for a very long time at 6563.0Å and the light was yellow. I had it adjusted to 6562.8Å.

As of now it is cloudy so I will look for some ideas how to add a fan to the Quantum.
That's the problem with Daystars (compared to Solar Spectrum) - no active cooling. My Quark drifts off band with the heat if I leave it a while...
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