Perseid Meteor Detection by Radio

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Perseid Meteor Detection by Radio

Post by Carbon60 »

A bit 'left field' for SolarChat, but I thought it might be interesting to some, nevertheless.

I've set up a SDR system to detect radio emissions from the Sun (17-30 MHz range) using a dipole aerial in the attic and my PC in my garage (man cave) ;). This will be the main purpose of the system. However, over the last few days we've experienced the annual Perseid meteor shower so I thought I'd see if I could detect radio reflections from meteor trails using as my target a radar station situated 'over the horizon' in France. There are several web sites that describe how to do this and once you've got the appropriate kit it is really easy to do. The issue for me was that I was using a dipole aerial tuned for the 10m band (30 MHz) to detect radar signals at 143.048 MHz (2 kHz below the broadcast frequency of 143.050 MHz). Normally one would use a Yagi antenna (a bit like an analogue TV aerial) of the appropriate dimensions and construction for the wavelength of interest (I'm currently constructing one of these). Anyhow, even with the mismatched antenna I managed to collect some interesting data.

The principles are straightforward enough. If the target transmitter is over the horizon from your vantage point, then the signal emitted from that transmitter would normally radiate into space and remain undetected by your receiver because of the land mass between the two points. However, when a meteor enters Earth's atmosphere and disintegrates at high altitude, the ionised trail of debris acts 'like a mirror' reflecting the target radio signals back down to Earth, over the hill between transmitter and receiver, where they are detected as a blip on the radio spectrum analyser software. By shifting the detector frequency down by 2 KHz and selecting 'Upper Side Band' an approximately 2 KHz ping can be heard (the actual frequency depends on the speed and direction of the meteor in relation to the transmitter/receiver) and this can be displayed on an audio spectrum analyser (such as Spectrum Lab). A bit of code embedded in Spectrum Lab enables the pings to be logged as a function of time for specific days during recording.

Here's a screen shot from my PC running the SDR software and Spectrum Lab. My magnetometer record is also shown running in the lower right.
System Setup.jpg
System Setup.jpg (432.4 KiB) Viewed 2889 times
Now for the fun bit.....

Once set up and tested out on local radio stations the system was tuned to 143.048 MHz and set to record continuously any detected events. I started on August 10th and it's still running as at the time of writing.

Here's a 24hr cumulative count plot for August 13th, which represents the peak of the Perseid shower
August 13th Data.jpg
August 13th Data.jpg (125.18 KiB) Viewed 2889 times
Note the rate can be approximated by a linear 'average' rate over most of the night, at least from midnight through to 6:00 am and a little beyond (although there are short periods of raised and reduced 'hourly rate'). Through approximately noon and evening time the apparent rate reduces, although this is more about detection ability falling off rather than the number of meteors/hr reducing. It's a function of the Earth turning under the shower.

The following two charts show the daily plots for the days leading up to max (10th through 13th) and leading out of max (13th through 15th).
August 10th_13th Data.jpg
August 10th_13th Data.jpg (182.14 KiB) Viewed 2889 times
August 13th_15th Data.jpg
August 13th_15th Data.jpg (162.67 KiB) Viewed 2889 times
Taking the slope of the approximately linear region over the period midnight to 6:00 am, thereby calculating an average hourly detection rate for this period, I was able to plot this as a function of time (by day) to show when the peak occurred.
Rate vs Date.jpg
Rate vs Date.jpg (61.26 KiB) Viewed 2889 times
Although my hourly rates do not correspond with 'Zenith normalised' eyeball observations (which as Pedro showed in the link provided are about twice those shown here), given that my antenna is not properly matched to the broadcast frequency and is, therefore, inefficient, I was pretty pleased with the results which at least corroborate with when max occurred. I'll certainly be doing this again for other meteor showers using a more appropriately configured antenna.

If you've got this far, thanks for taking the time to read this post. I hope you found it interesting.

Stu.
Last edited by Carbon60 on Mon Aug 17, 2020 5:44 am, edited 1 time in total.


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Fluxgate Magnetometers (1s and 150s Cadence).
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Re: Perseid Meteor Detection by Radio

Post by rsfoto »

Hi Stu,

I found it very interesting. Thanks.

:bow2


regards Rainer

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Re: Perseid Meteor Detection by Radio

Post by JochenM »

Nicely done, Stu.

I've done it myself a number of years ago. I have an hackrf one with upconverter lying around here somewhere that I haven't touched in a long time. It's quite interesting what you can detect with a relatively inexpensive piece of kit.


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Re: Perseid Meteor Detection by Radio

Post by Montana »

Wonderful Stuart!! you are so clever!! I have been wanting to do something to catch meteors for a long time now and would love to do this. A few questions:

Are you going to do a write up of how to do and what to buy?
Is it possible to do this under high voltage electric cables?
Can you hear them or are they just plots on a graph?
Rather than cumulative counts wouldn't it be better to plot actual counts per hour for each night, then it would be possible to find the hour of the peak?

I was thinking of buying the Oculus all sky camera but Pedro doesn't think it is sensitive enough and also our clear nights are rather rare. Also my money I saved for this project vanished over the weekend and the money is now being used to pay for new garage doors. On Saturday was a horrible half an hour. The garage door cable snapped during opening and I had to use all my strength for 30 minutes to stop the garage door crashing on to the MX5 underneath whilst the hubby tried desperately to free the cable and then try and crash it forwards away from the car. I didn't realise I had such super human strength until an emergency. Anyway, bang goes the Oculus :( I hope the radio antenna is cheaper?

Alexandra


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Re: Perseid Meteor Detection by Radio

Post by p_zetner »

Brilliant stuff, Stu!

I have the same question as Alexandra. Why not plot the count rate itself as opposed to accumulated counts?

I’m setting up a system myself to measure solar radio activity in the 30 to 50 MHz band. I’m hoping to do spectral analysis on bursts when the Sun becomes more active. Hopefully, someday, you’ll be able to correlate solar radio bursts with your magnetometer readings.

Cheers.
Peter

(Alexandra: Sorry to hear about your garage door nightmare but I can’t get an image of The Incredible Hulk out of my mind!)


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Re: Perseid Meteor Detection by Radio

Post by Carbon60 »

Montana wrote: Mon Aug 17, 2020 7:36 am Wonderful Stuart!! you are so clever!! I have been wanting to do something to catch meteors for a long time now and would love to do this. A few questions:

Are you going to do a write up of how to do and what to buy?
Is it possible to do this under high voltage electric cables?
Can you hear them or are they just plots on a graph?
Rather than cumulative counts wouldn't it be better to plot actual counts per hour for each night, then it would be possible to find the hour of the peak?

I was thinking of buying the Oculus all sky camera but Pedro doesn't think it is sensitive enough and also our clear nights are rather rare. Also my money I saved for this project vanished over the weekend and the money is now being used to pay for new garage doors. On Saturday was a horrible half an hour. The garage door cable snapped during opening and I had to use all my strength for 30 minutes to stop the garage door crashing on to the MX5 underneath whilst the hubby tried desperately to free the cable and then try and crash it forwards away from the car. I didn't realise I had such super human strength until an emergency. Anyway, bang goes the Oculus :( I hope the radio antenna is cheaper?

Alexandra
Yikes....superhuman strength and stamina required indeed, there, Alexandra. At least you saved the MX5. :)

Regarding your questions:

Hopefully this link from Popular Astronomy Works. It’s what I used as my ‘how to’ guide. I can also help if you wish.

https://www.popastro.com/main_spa1/mete ... ving-2020/

The high voltage cables shouldn’t be an issue.
You’ll hear ‘pings’ at around 2 kHz. The tone can also be ascending or descending.

The software does actually count the number of detections per hour, so this is easy to plot in excel and there’s a means of displaying the data as a ‘heat map’ colour coded to show counts by the hour for each day of the month. This is quite the conventional way of displaying these data.

I chose to calculate an average hourly rate for the overnight period from the cumulative count plots and then plot these over the 6 days to determine approximately the peak. The reason for doing this is because the actual hourly rate counted on your specific detector only shows the state of play from your vantage point on the planet at any one time. As Earth rotates, then your vantage point relative to the shower radiant rotates and the apparent hourly rate drops, particularly during the afternoon and evening. Consequently, the actual peak could be happening elsewhere on the planet when your location is in a quiet spot, so plotting the local hourly rate does not really help in findIng the peak with any greater degree of accuracy.

The cost of doing this is very modest.

Stu.


H-alpha, WL and Ca II K imaging kit for various image scales.
Fluxgate Magnetometers (1s and 150s Cadence).
Radio meteor detector.
More images at http://www.flickr.com/photos/solarcarbon60/
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Re: Perseid Meteor Detection by Radio

Post by Carbon60 »

p_zetner wrote: Mon Aug 17, 2020 12:20 pm
I have the same question as Alexandra. Why not plot the count rate itself as opposed to accumulated counts?

I’m setting up a system myself to measure solar radio activity in the 30 to 50 MHz band. I’m hoping to do spectral analysis on bursts when the Sun becomes more active. Hopefully, someday, you’ll be able to correlate solar radio bursts with your magnetometer.
Hi Peter,

Please refer to my response to Alexandra concerning counting.
It’ll be interesting to see how your solar activity monitoring progresses and compares with my own. We just need more solar activity to produce some emissions. :)

Stu.


H-alpha, WL and Ca II K imaging kit for various image scales.
Fluxgate Magnetometers (1s and 150s Cadence).
Radio meteor detector.
More images at http://www.flickr.com/photos/solarcarbon60/
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Re: Perseid Meteor Detection by Radio

Post by rsfoto »

Regarding your questions:

Hopefully this link from Popular Astronomy Works. It’s what I used as my ‘how to’ guide. I can also help if you wish.

https://www.popastro.com/main_spa1/mete ... ving-2020/
Hi,

I read the whole paper but now comes my dilemma. How can I find out where a radio station is which transmits in 143.050 MHz ?

are these stations common or is this a special frequency used for tests or ¿? :? :? :?

Thanks


regards Rainer

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Re: Perseid Meteor Detection by Radio

Post by Carbon60 »

rsfoto wrote: Mon Aug 17, 2020 11:07 pm
Hi,

I read the whole paper but now comes my dilemma. How can I find out where a radio station is which transmits in 143.050 MHz ?

are these stations common or is this a special frequency used for tests or ¿? :? :? :?

Thanks
Hi Rainer,

The important thing is to find a suitable transmitter that’s constantly transmitting a uniform signal in a location beyond your horizon. There’s someone in Mexico located in Hillo Sonora receiving at 54.309 MHz. I don’t know how this relates to your location, but it’s worth checking it out as a possibility.

Stu.


H-alpha, WL and Ca II K imaging kit for various image scales.
Fluxgate Magnetometers (1s and 150s Cadence).
Radio meteor detector.
More images at http://www.flickr.com/photos/solarcarbon60/
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Re: Perseid Meteor Detection by Radio

Post by rsfoto »

Carbon60 wrote: Tue Aug 18, 2020 6:08 am
rsfoto wrote: Mon Aug 17, 2020 11:07 pm
Hi,

I read the whole paper but now comes my dilemma. How can I find out where a radio station is which transmits in 143.050 MHz ?

are these stations common or is this a special frequency used for tests or ¿? :? :? :?

Thanks
Hi Rainer,

The important thing is to find a suitable transmitter that’s constantly transmitting a uniform signal in a location beyond your horizon. There’s someone in Mexico located in Hillo Sonora receiving at 54.309 MHz. I don’t know how this relates to your location, but it’s worth checking it out as a possibility.

Stu.
Hi Stu,

Thanks for the answer. So from that I deduct that one can take any Radio station as a reference which is transmitting 24 hours a day.

There is no city Hillo in Sonora Mexico, but there is a town called Hermosillo Sonora and someone thought it is cool to make it shorter and write Hillo :lol:

Will try to see where I can find a station. So I guess the frquency is not imortant but more important 24 hours transmitting ¿ right ?


regards Rainer

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Re: Perseid Meteor Detection by Radio

Post by Carbon60 »

[/quote]

Hi Stu,

Thanks for the answer. So from that I deduct that one can take any Radio station as a reference which is transmitting 24 hours a day.

There is no city Hillo in Sonora Mexico, but there is a town called Hermosillo Sonora and someone thought it is cool to make it shorter and write Hillo :lol:

Will try to see where I can find a station. So I guess the frquency is not imortant but more important 24 hours transmitting ¿ right ?
[/quote]

Hi Rainer, It might be worth checking to see if there’s an active (radio meteor) association in Mexico with recommendations.

Stu.


H-alpha, WL and Ca II K imaging kit for various image scales.
Fluxgate Magnetometers (1s and 150s Cadence).
Radio meteor detector.
More images at http://www.flickr.com/photos/solarcarbon60/
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Re: Perseid Meteor Detection by Radio

Post by rsfoto »

Carbon60 wrote: Thu Aug 20, 2020 6:35 am
Hi Stu,

Thanks for the answer. So from that I deduct that one can take any Radio station as a reference which is transmitting 24 hours a day.

There is no city Hillo in Sonora Mexico, but there is a town called Hermosillo Sonora and someone thought it is cool to make it shorter and write Hillo :lol:

Will try to see where I can find a station. So I guess the frquency is not imortant but more important 24 hours transmitting ¿ right ?
[/quote]

Hi Rainer, It might be worth checking to see if there’s an active (radio meteor) association in Mexico with recommendations.

Stu.
[/quote]

Hi Stu,

Will do. I have read about Dr. Salvador Aguirre in Hermosillo Sonora. I will contact him.

As far as I know those dongles are normal radio receivers and so I can imagine I can ehar the radio stations and Identifying which radio station I am hearing I can find out where it is located and so on ...

Or am I wrong in my assumption ?


regards Rainer

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Re: Perseid Meteor Detection by Radio

Post by Carbon60 »

Hi Rainer,

Absolutely correct. The device can detect 'normal' radio broadcasts as well as meteor reflections :)

Stu.


H-alpha, WL and Ca II K imaging kit for various image scales.
Fluxgate Magnetometers (1s and 150s Cadence).
Radio meteor detector.
More images at http://www.flickr.com/photos/solarcarbon60/
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Re: Perseid Meteor Detection by Radio

Post by rsfoto »

Carbon60 wrote: Thu Aug 20, 2020 5:40 pm Hi Rainer,

Absolutely correct. The device can detect 'normal' radio broadcasts as well as meteor reflections :)

Stu.
Hi Stu,

OK, that means I buy a Dongle and search for radio stations transmitting 24 hours a day and see where they are located and then build my Yagi-Antenna.

Any recommendation for a Dongle RTL-SDR ?

Some already come with a 2 meter antenna cable and a USB extension cable (least problem).

Prices vary as in a vegetable shop ... :-)

I already found a Yagi Antenna calculator https://www.basictables.com/amateur-rad ... gi-antenna

I guess I can also use Aluminum tube instead of copper tube for the Antenna ¿?


regards Rainer

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Re: Perseid Meteor Detection by Radio

Post by rsfoto »

Hi,

I jumped into the water and ordered yesterday an " RTL-SDR.COM " starter kit. Tentatively it will arrive on Saturday 29 from USA :cry:

Now I am just keen to see what comes next ... and what all I need to learn to understand this better ...


:shock: :shock: :shock: :shock: :shock:


PS @ Stu, you have a PM :)


regards Rainer

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Re: Perseid Meteor Detection by Radio

Post by Carbon60 »

Glad it’s coming along nicely, Rainer.

Stu.


H-alpha, WL and Ca II K imaging kit for various image scales.
Fluxgate Magnetometers (1s and 150s Cadence).
Radio meteor detector.
More images at http://www.flickr.com/photos/solarcarbon60/
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Re: Perseid Meteor Detection by Radio

Post by rsfoto »

Carbon60 wrote: Fri Aug 21, 2020 6:09 pm Glad it’s coming along nicely, Rainer.

Stu.
Hi Stu,

Yes and you will need a lot of patience when I start. Be prepared to answer Zillions of questions from my side ...


:lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:


regards Rainer

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Re: Perseid Meteor Detection by Radio

Post by rsfoto »

Hi Stu,

Update. My Kit already arrives on Tuesday 25 and not Saturday 29 ... but first I have to install some shelves in the House :( :( :( (takes time away from playing with the SDR) :lol:

:hamster: :hamster: :hamster: :hamster:

In this regard you mention in your original posting that you used a dipole antenna. Now I have read Dipoles are most effective when positioned in Vertical way but then I see that all Yagi antennas ( as far as i have understood are Dipole antennas with reflectors and directors) are positioned in Horizontal way.

In the case of having reflectors and directors does this not matter anymore ?

:?
Last edited by rsfoto on Sun Sep 27, 2020 7:31 pm, edited 1 time in total.


regards Rainer

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Re: Perseid Meteor Detection by Radio

Post by Carbon60 »

Hi Rainer,

A tuned Yagi for the specific wavelength, pointing towards the transmitter at an appropriate elevation is the usual approach. This is where I’m going next with this, with a home built antenna. I’m currently using a long dipole tuned for a completely different waveband (intended to detect solar radio outbursts) simply because this is what I have got available. This is slung horizontally in my attic.

You’re correct, a Yagi is a dipole with a reflector at the rear and a steering element at the front (sometimes more than one). They are generally horizontal. Your antenna is a starting point. Once you find a suitable transmitter, and it’s frequency, then you’ll be able to optimise to obtain the best reception.

Stu.


H-alpha, WL and Ca II K imaging kit for various image scales.
Fluxgate Magnetometers (1s and 150s Cadence).
Radio meteor detector.
More images at http://www.flickr.com/photos/solarcarbon60/
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Re: Perseid Meteor Detection by Radio

Post by rsfoto »

Hi Stu,

Thank you. I have been reading a lot lately.

I read somewhere that in America Band 1 TV stations are still working and they work in a frequency range of 54 - 72 MHz and 76 - 88 MHz . This is, I assume, the reason why that mexican guy in Hermosillo, Sonora has its receiver tuned at 54.309 MHz. Would be good for me to find out if that one is also reachable for me. My best direction to find a transmission tower is between NW and NE. The the other directions two many buildings.

Having the receiver the search will be easy. :o

The other TV frequencies here in Mexico are in the range of 470 - 602 MHz.

I found some info which frequencies are used for what in Mexico here .

My first job will be to search for frequencies in those two ranges and then find out what is the maximum transmission power of this stations.

Will keep informing you about my results. Thank you.


regards Rainer

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Re: Perseid Meteor Detection by Radio

Post by rsfoto »

Hi Stu,

Yesterday I got the SDR Hardware, a RTL-SDR.COM Dongle, and so far it is working on my PC's troublefree.

Scan frequency is from 500 kHz up to 1770 MHz.

Have been playing around a bit with it but now I am truly lost :?

I have been scanning the whole available band and really I do not know what I am looking for as a beacon for Meteor tracking. I have found some frequencies which seem to boradcast nothing but have a good signal. Need to find out where they are located and this will be a major problem I guess.

I think using VOR / ILS beacons is senseless as they come from the Airport in my town.

Will keep searching for a Radio amateur.

Have not yer found out how to record a transmission. Also I need to find out how to reduce noise.

Also waiting to get my book :cool:

Here a good signal I guess and which according a list I found is a VHF TV station. OK, I am just playing around with the Dipole antenna I got.

Questions over questions and many incognitas :lol: :lol: :lol:


Image


regards Rainer

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Re: Perseid Meteor Detection by Radio

Post by rsfoto »

Hi Stu,

Found another frequency belonging to a terrestrial Antenna station ~ 350 km away.

Now when tuning in via WFM the center there is nothing to hear at all but when going USB - 2kHz then the noise gets very loud.

I am going to improvise a 3 element Yagi and point it in that direction. The question is, is it a 24/7 transmitter ?


Image


Image


regards Rainer

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Re: Perseid Meteor Detection by Radio

Post by Carbon60 »

Hi Rainer,

This transmitter would be perfect if it were a little further away. The idea is that you shouldn’t be able to detect the signal until a meteor reflects it from up high where it disintegrates into an ion trail. The loud sound you’re hearing is the 2kHz frequency difference between your tuned frequency and the broadcast frequency. This is what you would hear as a meteor reflected signal from ‘over the hill’ with a correctly located transmitter. Don’t forget to set the bandwidth to 4000 Hz. Currently yours is set at 1610 Hz.

Recording data is done using Spectrum Lab and the settings provided in the links in the paper.

Good to see things coming along :)

Stu.


H-alpha, WL and Ca II K imaging kit for various image scales.
Fluxgate Magnetometers (1s and 150s Cadence).
Radio meteor detector.
More images at http://www.flickr.com/photos/solarcarbon60/
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Re: Perseid Meteor Detection by Radio

Post by Carbon60 »

Rainer, from your location you might find suitable transmitters over the boarder in the south east US, such as Austin TX. Any here would be well beyond the line of sight and would only be detectable by meteor reflection.

Stu.


H-alpha, WL and Ca II K imaging kit for various image scales.
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Radio meteor detector.
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Re: Perseid Meteor Detection by Radio

Post by rsfoto »

Carbon60 wrote: Tue Aug 25, 2020 8:26 pm Hi Rainer,

This transmitter would be perfect if it were a little further away. The idea is that you shouldn’t be able to detect the signal until a meteor reflects it from up high where it disintegrates into an ion trail. The loud sound you’re hearing is the 2kHz frequency difference between your tuned frequency and the broadcast frequency. This is what you would hear as a meteor reflected signal from ‘over the hill’ with a correctly located transmitter. Don’t forget to set the bandwidth to 4000 Hz. Currently yours is set at 1610 Hz.

Recording data is done using Spectrum Lab and the settings provided in the links in the paper.

Good to see things coming along :)

Stu.
Hi Stu,

Thanks. So this means that If I hear noise the transmitter is not behind a hill ?


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Re: Perseid Meteor Detection by Radio

Post by Carbon60 »

Hi Rainer,

That’s correct. I’m sure you’ll find one at the right distance.

Stu.


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Re: Perseid Meteor Detection by Radio

Post by rsfoto »

Carbon60 wrote: Tue Aug 25, 2020 9:00 pm Hi Rainer,

That’s correct. I’m sure you’ll find one at the right distance.

Stu.
OK. So I need to search for signals. Tune USB with 2 kHz below the signal and see if I hear noise or not ... ¿ correct ?

That would mean I have a transmitter below the Horizon and I am not receving directly the signal ...

:shock:


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Re: Perseid Meteor Detection by Radio

Post by Carbon60 »

Hi Rainer,

Searching the internet should reveal suitable transmitters/frequencies to try (600-1000km from you). Correct, tune to 2kHz below the listed frequency, ensure your bandwidth is 4000Hz and that the receiver is set to USB (upper side band). You shouldn’t see anything from the station on the spectrum or hear anything unless there’s a meteor reflection.

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Re: Perseid Meteor Detection by Radio

Post by rsfoto »

Carbon60 wrote: Wed Aug 26, 2020 5:54 am Hi Rainer,

Searching the internet should reveal suitable transmitters/frequencies to try (600-1000km from you). Correct, tune to 2kHz below the listed frequency, ensure your bandwidth is 4000Hz and that the receiver is set to USB (upper side band). You shouldn’t see anything from the station on the spectrum or hear anything unless there’s a meteor reflection.

Stu.
Hi Stu,

Thanks. I have been ding that but it looks like frequency revealing in Mexico is State Secret :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:

Yesterday I was in the Observatory for about 6 hours trying to find some frequencies. I found one on 54.3 MHz and according to a list for Mexico transmitters it is a VHF TV transmitter but now I need to know where it is located :o :o :o

Will start today again and see if I find more.


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Re: Perseid Meteor Detection by Radio

Post by rsfoto »

Hi Stu,

Well. Sitting in the Radio Lab and playing around.

I have found a list of the TV channels and their frequencies.

Frecuencia_Canales_TV_Mexico.jpg
Frecuencia_Canales_TV_Mexico.jpg (649.2 KiB) Viewed 2959 times

Looking at the list I searched for various frequencies and got one which is well isolated from others

SDR_67.250MHz_lonely.JPG
SDR_67.250MHz_lonely.JPG (201.75 KiB) Viewed 2959 times

If I go higher in the TV channels then I get a cluster of peaks

SDR_175MHz_cluster.JPG
SDR_175MHz_cluster.JPG (217.47 KiB) Viewed 2959 times

Now below you can see the 67.250 MHZ in WFM mode where it makes not much noise

SDR_67.250MHz_in_WFM_mode.JPG
SDR_67.250MHz_in_WFM_mode.JPG (193.79 KiB) Viewed 2959 times

but when I go into USB mode and tune 2000 Hz lower then I get a high pitch noise. Is that OK or not OK ?

SDR_67.250MHz_in_USB_mode.JPG
SDR_67.250MHz_in_USB_mode.JPG (196.08 KiB) Viewed 2959 times
Searching for antenna DIY I found the Small Magentic Loop antenna which is easy to built but so far I ahve understood difficult to tune.

Should I make a 3 element Yagi Antenna then this get quite big for 67 MHz

Decision decisions decisions ...


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Re: Perseid Meteor Detection by Radio

Post by rsfoto »

Hi Stu,

I tuned in into a higher MHZ band around 179.25 MHz and in USB mode - 2KHz i hear from time to time a blip.

Look at the image

Could_This_Be_a_Meteor.JPG
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Re: Perseid Meteor Detection by Radio

Post by rsfoto »

Hi Stu,

I have been observing it now for a while and as said it BLIPS unregularly. Now build a Yagi for that frequency and see what happens. According to my research the transmitter is about 1000 km away in the Southeast of Mexico.

I tuned my Dipole to that frequency

Possible_Meteor_01.jpg
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Re: Perseid Meteor Detection by Radio

Post by rsfoto »

Hi Stu,

I guess this was something big crossing ...

Satelite_or-Plane_Crossing.jpg
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Re: Perseid Meteor Detection by Radio

Post by Carbon60 »

Hi Rainer,

Looks promising. Place the cursor in line with the irregular blips (you can do this on the waterfall screen) to find the exact frequency of the transmitter, then de-tune by 2kHz. You can then reduce the bandwidth from 4000Hz so as to isolate this signal from any adjoining signals.

Use Spectrum Lab to log the blips and see if their number and regularity make any sense in relation to current meteor rates.

It’s coming along.... :)

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Re: Perseid Meteor Detection by Radio

Post by rsfoto »

Carbon60 wrote: Thu Aug 27, 2020 6:46 am Hi Rainer,

Looks promising. Place the cursor in line with the irregular blips (you can do this on the waterfall screen) to find the exact frequency of the transmitter, then de-tune by 2kHz. You can then reduce the bandwidth from 4000Hz so as to isolate this signal from any adjoining signals.

Use Spectrum Lab to log the blips and see if their number and regularity make any sense in relation to current meteor rates.

It’s coming along.... :)

Stu.
Hi Stu,

Will do. It is raining and so I have a lot of time.

I was sampling at 1.024 msps. I was able to use the highest but then the noise is overwhelming.

Yesterday I was trying to see something in Spectrum Lab but no luck at all. Would you mind sending me your *.usr file and I just change the frequency for testing ? That Spectrum Lab program is quite finicky :shock:

One thing that I noticed is that the Dongle is very susceptible to good or bad connection at the USB connector. I am using a 5 meter active USB 2.0 cable, Will see if I find an active USB 3.0 cable somewhere in my home cable shop.

I found a program called Echoes but it does not read my Dongle and according to the author it is due to the installed driver. Will see if I can set up my dongle for Echoes.

Thanks for the Heads Up ...


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Re: Perseid Meteor Detection by Radio

Post by marktownley »

Interesting thread guys!


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Re: Perseid Meteor Detection by Radio

Post by rsfoto »

Hi Stu,

I do not know what I am doing wrong but Spectrum Lab just does not depict any of those BLIPs I hear. I have installed Virtual Cable as my audio source. Maybe I am connecting wrong in Spectrum Lab ?

Below an image of the BLIPs I get. The transmitter is around 179.263.500 Hz with some variations in the las 3 digit Hz. I tuned it then down in USB to 179.261.500. Measuring the frequency in the Waterfall I get exatly 179.263.500 (variations same as above) and the BLIPs are exactly every time in 179.262.400 Hz (again with some varitions).

As of now writing this I am again on 179.261.500 and the sporadic BLIPs at 179.262.400.

BLIP_179.2625MHz.jpg
BLIP_179.2625MHz.jpg (731.96 KiB) Viewed 2933 times

Look below my two screenshots. What is wrong in the upper left corner of the adjustments. Between 179.263.500 Hz and my BLIPs at 179.262.400 Hz ?

SectrumLab_179.261MHz.jpg
SectrumLab_179.261MHz.jpg (163.5 KiB) Viewed 2933 times
SectrumLab_Input_179.261MHz.jpg
SectrumLab_Input_179.261MHz.jpg (418.35 KiB) Viewed 2933 times


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Re: Perseid Meteor Detection by Radio

Post by rsfoto »

I do not know what I am doing wrong but Spectrum Lab just does not depict any of those BLIPs I hear. I have installed Virtual Cable as my audio source. Maybe I am connecting wrong in Spectrum Lab ?
Hi,

After a few hours I think I managed to setup the audio input and it turned out it was a Windows problem ...

Nowhere in the WWW I was able to read about that problem ...

If it works what I did then now I have to wait for BLIPs


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Re: Perseid Meteor Detection by Radio

Post by Carbon60 »

Hi Rainer,

A few things:
1. Ensure you're set on USB (upper Side Band). You currently have it on WFM
2. The bandwidth is now too narrow. It should be wide enough to encompass the signal you're trying to record, but not too wide so as to detect the strong signal to the right on the 'blips'.
3. The Audio Input on Spectrum Lab should be set to CABLE as this will take the output from the SDR module directly as an input. Ensure that the output on the SDR is also set to CABLE. You have to stop (white square) the SDR and then select the Audio tab and change the output option to CABLE then press play (the white triangle where the white square was, just to the left of the cog on the top row).

Did you manage to download the Spectrum Lab configuration file from the Popular Astronomy Radio Meteor Observing Guide?

Stu.


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Re: Perseid Meteor Detection by Radio

Post by rsfoto »

Carbon60 wrote: Fri Aug 28, 2020 3:10 pm Hi Rainer,

A few things:
1. Ensure you're set on USB (upper Side Band). You currently have it on WFM
2. The bandwidth is now too narrow. It should be wide enough to encompass the signal you're trying to record, but not too wide so as to detect the strong signal to the right on the 'blips'.
3. The Audio Input on Spectrum Lab should be set to CABLE as this will take the output from the SDR module directly as an input. Ensure that the output on the SDR is also set to CABLE. You have to stop (white square) the SDR and then select the Audio tab and change the output option to CABLE then press play (the white triangle where the white square was, just to the left of the cog on the top row).

Did you manage to download the Spectrum Lab configuration file from the Popular Astronomy Radio Meteor Observing Guide?

Stu.
Hi Stu,

Thank You. Yes I have done that but looks like Windows is a mess and I will need to go back and see where I have the Bottle neck in regard to seding the audio from SDR to SepctrumLab. Yes I downloaded a file containing something ...MJMM ... or whatever. As I wrote before, Spectrum Lab is quite finicky in regard to data input in frequency and fc and sp ...

The frequency I found at 179.261.500 Hz seems to be a good signal. Will keep looking at that one.

In USA there are the so called SNOTEL/SCAN signals in the band of 40.670 MHz but I do not get them here unless I build a huge antena for that band which would mean a 3 element Yagi antenna with the dimensions of 3.5 meter wide and 2 meters long :shock: :shock: :shock: :shock: One of this transmitters is in Brownsville, Texas 1200 km away from my site. Will keep searching for that signal. A dipole with 3.5 meters total length could also catch this signal :lol:

The band used by the the other guy in Hermosillo, Sonora with 54.300 MHz is also unreachable for me.

I never believed how much time it takes to get this working and my hair is getting more grey everyday and I thought this is a hobby :lol: .

What this RMO needs, is something like the ASCOM standard in astronomy :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: to interface the different software packages.

This is more work as being a CEO of a company :roll:


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Re: Perseid Meteor Detection by Radio

Post by rsfoto »

Hi Stu,

OK, here I am again and when I open the Audio menu what do I use

[MME] CABLE Input ... or [Windows Sound] CABLE Input

Look at the screen shots. I think the best way top illustrate something is via screenshots because we then talk the same language ;)

Will keep trying.

SDRSharp-Audio-chose.JPG
SDRSharp-Audio-chose.JPG (19.82 KiB) Viewed 2916 times
SDRSharp-Audio-chose-many.jpg
SDRSharp-Audio-chose-many.jpg (465.99 KiB) Viewed 2916 times


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Re: Perseid Meteor Detection by Radio

Post by rsfoto »

Hi Stu,
1. Ensure you're set on USB (upper Side Band). You currently have it on WFM
2. The bandwidth is now too narrow. It should be wide enough to encompass the signal you're trying to record, but not too wide so as to detect the strong signal to the right on the 'blips'.
This was only for showing the BLIP but when I run it I always set it to USB and pull the bandwidth to the right so the chosen frequency of 179.261.500 is inside the lighter window.

:bow2

In order to measure which is the BLIP freqeuency in the Waterfall I need to narrow the bandwidth as having it wider I can no measure the frequency of the BLIP becuase it show me inside the bandwidth the tuned in frequency.

;)


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Re: Perseid Meteor Detection by Radio

Post by rsfoto »

Hi Stu,
1. Ensure you're set on USB (upper Side Band). You currently have it on WFM
2. The bandwidth is now too narrow. It should be wide enough to encompass the signal you're trying to record, but not too wide so as to detect the strong signal to the right on the 'blips'.
This was only for showing the BLIP but when I run it I always set it to USB and pull the bandwidth to the right so the chosen frequency of 179.261.500 is inside the lighter window.

:bow2

In order to measure which is the BLIP freqeuency in the Waterfall I need to narrow the bandwidth as having it wider I can no measure the frequency of the BLIP becuase it show me inside the bandwidth the tuned in frequency.

;)

This is how I run it always for detecting BLIPs and there is one :mrgreen:

USB-tuning.JPG
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Re: Perseid Meteor Detection by Radio

Post by Carbon60 »

Hi Rainer,

It looks like your target frequency for the blips is 179.2625 MHz. The set frequency on the top line should, therefore, be 179.2605 MHz, which is the target frequency less 2 KHz (to give the 2 KHz ping, i.e. the difference in frequencies). When you do this, set the bandwidth back to 4000 Hz on USB. This sets the window of detection. If you find that the width is too wide (capturing any other broadcasts such as the bright line on the right) then narrow it down a bit until you exclude the bright line. This should then allow you to detect the blips within this frequency window defined by the bandwidth. Spectrum lab with the correct configuration file loaded will enable the blips to be counted, tagged and logged as meteor events. You can then check that the counts seem sensible compared with expectations (maybe 10 per hour as a background count between defined meteor showers).

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Re: Perseid Meteor Detection by Radio

Post by rsfoto »

Hi Stu,

Thanks. It looks like this now but after playing around a bit if I change the frequency the blips aslo chane its value. Is that correct ? e.g with 179.260.500 MHZ the BLIPs value is 179.262.400 (delta 1900 Hz).

Sometimes the BLIP vary by 100 Hz, and is that normal ?

But i do not see the BLIPs in Spectrum Lab ... and VB Cable is working according to the control panel of VB cable

:?

SetUp_179.2605MHz.jpg
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Re: Perseid Meteor Detection by Radio

Post by Carbon60 »

Hi Rainer,

Just to double check things...

Here's a screen shot of my SDR screen with the output setting.
SDR Screen.jpg
SDR Screen.jpg (251.52 KiB) Viewed 2887 times
...and the Spectrum Lab screen with the input setting. This can be found on the Audio I/O tab and 'Input'. It is a bit confusing because the drop down says CABLE Output
Spectrum Lab Screen.jpg
Spectrum Lab Screen.jpg (203.6 KiB) Viewed 2887 times
You can check that both are communicating by tuning around, up and down the frequency scale, and at some locations you'll see 'events' popping up on the Spectrum Lab screen when it thinks a meteor has been detected. Some of the weaker stations can show as continuous bands on Spectrum Lab.
Meteor Radio SDR_Spectrum Lab.jpg
Meteor Radio SDR_Spectrum Lab.jpg (609.82 KiB) Viewed 2887 times
I think you'll have to keep fishing around (maybe with zoom set to minimum) to look for further 'blips' and see if you can find something that looks more promising and then zoom in on this, following the routine of isolating the frequency (less 2 KHz) and setting the bandwidth at 4 kHz or a little less to avoid any adjacent strong stations. So long as the SDR and Spectrum Lab applications are communicating and that you have successfully uploaded the configuration file for Spectrum Lab then you should see the blips recorded as meteor strikes.

Hope this helps.

Stu.


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Re: Perseid Meteor Detection by Radio

Post by rsfoto »

Hi Stu,

You in Europe have it easy with the GRAVES Radar in France. As I see you just tune in the frequency of 143.048.000 Hz and off you go. :mrgreen:

Thank you very much for the screenshot sas how to adjust the VB Cable In and Output as well as the other tips. I see I was setting this adjustments wrong. As soon as I am ready I will start playing today again.

Now with that tips it is a bit clearer for me.

OK, will test today by just tuning in into some known frequencies and see what happens.

I was playing around yesterday with the software " Echoes " and got some BLIPs in that software signalizing some reflection but honestly the User Interface is everything but not intuitive at all. Even SDR# is more intuitive.

Again thanks. :bow2


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Re: Perseid Meteor Detection by Radio

Post by rsfoto »

Hi Stu,

OK, after your last explanation now Spectrum Lab receives data from SDR#. When I press the Signal Gen = ON I hear a beep and so I hear an artificial Meteor BLIP.

Now comes the difficult part and that is finding a transmitter behind the Hill.

:bow2


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Re: Perseid Meteor Detection by Radio

Post by rsfoto »

Hi Stu,

I tried to do what you showed me in this image but no luck at all. O mean showing the long streaks in Spectrum Lab


download/file.php?id=46861


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Re: Perseid Meteor Detection by Radio

Post by Carbon60 »

Hi Rainer,

You need to put the curser on one of the signals that is jumping up and down a bit to show this, but don’t worry about that. The main thing is to show that SDR and Spectrum Lab are communicating, which you say is the case. Just focus on finding blips :)

Stu.


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Fluxgate Magnetometers (1s and 150s Cadence).
Radio meteor detector.
More images at http://www.flickr.com/photos/solarcarbon60/
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