Player One Apollo-M IMX432, unbox, and ZWO ASI-174 comparison.

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Re: Player One Apollo-M IMX432, unbox, and ZWO ASI-174 comparison.

Post by Dennis »

So far everything works well with the cam and there is a significant increase of s/n compared with the 174mm, i dont need to stack as many pictures as before. Its weird to have the same fov like with the 174mm but the etalon at around f/68 with the f/8 scope + the quark telecentric and the 2" TV Big Barlow in front. But to me it seems this still causes a noticable increase of contrast compared to f/45 (8x4,3x1.3x glaspathcorrector).

Another interesting behaviour of the Apollo Max is that the fps are being dropped if the gain reaches a value of 320.
So until 319 the fps reach a maximum of 109 fps, at 320 and beyond it drops to around 84 fps.

First pictures are being processed now, maybe i can show sth in the evening.
Last edited by Dennis on Wed May 11, 2022 12:35 pm, edited 1 time in total.


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Re: Player One Apollo-M IMX432, unbox, and ZWO ASI-174 comparison.

Post by cmas »

Excellent. Please link your images also to this thread. It would also be nice to see how clean the stacked image is with e.g. 400 frames stacked and with what ever low number of images you now stack with Apollo-max. As a reference compared to imx174 to get a better overall idea about the performance.


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Re: Player One Apollo-M IMX432, unbox, and ZWO ASI-174 comparison.

Post by Dennis »

cmas wrote: Wed May 11, 2022 11:22 am Excellent. Please link your images also to this thread. It would also be nice to see how clean the stacked image is with e.g. 400 frames stacked and with what ever low number of images you now stack with Apollo-max. As a reference compared to imx174 to get a better overall idea about the performance.
for now i can show the first results with the apollo max (30 second recordings):
viewtopic.php?f=4&t=36053&p=335864#p335864

i did not do a direct comparison but this are results with similar editing styles, also 30 second recordings but with the zwo asi 174mm:
viewtopic.php?p=335103#p335103
viewtopic.php?p=334830#p334830

maybe this helps in a way.
So far im pleased with the new toy and will look forward how it performs on moon and even planets.

regards
Dennis


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Re: Player One Apollo-M IMX432, unbox, and ZWO ASI-174 comparison.

Post by Dennis »

cmas wrote: Wed May 11, 2022 11:22 am Excellent. Please link your images also to this thread. It would also be nice to see how clean the stacked image is with e.g. 400 frames stacked and with what ever low number of images you now stack with Apollo-max. As a reference compared to imx174 to get a better overall idea about the performance.
Maybe this gives a better impression:
Here is a comparison of stacked images (Autostakkert autosharped previews, same method), each of them was the result of a 30 second video.
5% of the best pictures of the 30 sek. timeframe were stacked for both. The only thing that makes comparison a bit difficult is the different max. framerate / resulting exposuretime of the 2 cameras. Also the zoomlevel is not exactly the same.

first one is with the zwo asi 174mm (5% of 4819), second one is with the apollo max (5% of 3278).
Attachments
2022-04-20-0737_2-U-G-Sun_Halpha_lapl8_ap3880_conv_.png
2022-04-20-0737_2-U-G-Sun_Halpha_lapl8_ap3880_conv_.png (1.44 MiB) Viewed 3013 times
2022-05-11-0538_1-U-G-Sun_Halpha_lapl8_ap3009_conv_.png
2022-05-11-0538_1-U-G-Sun_Halpha_lapl8_ap3009_conv_.png (865.56 KiB) Viewed 3013 times


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Re: Player One Apollo-M IMX432, unbox, and ZWO ASI-174 comparison.

Post by rsfoto »

Dennis wrote: Wed May 11, 2022 5:13 pm
cmas wrote: Wed May 11, 2022 11:22 am Excellent. Please link your images also to this thread. It would also be nice to see how clean the stacked image is with e.g. 400 frames stacked and with what ever low number of images you now stack with Apollo-max. As a reference compared to imx174 to get a better overall idea about the performance.
Maybe this gives a better impression:
Here is a comparison of stacked images (Autostakkert autosharped previews, same method), each of them was the result of a 30 second video.
5% of the best pictures of the 30 sek. timeframe were stacked for both. The only thing that makes comparison a bit difficult is the different max. framerate / resulting exposuretime of the 2 cameras. Also the zoomlevel is not exactly the same.

first one is with the zwo asi 174mm (5% of 4819), second one is with the apollo max (5% of 3278).
Hi Dennis,

Interesting but difficult to judge as you are comparing two different areas. Much easier would have been exactly the same area. IMHO

... but OK and honestly I see no difference ... IMHO again


regards Rainer

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Re: Player One Apollo-M IMX432, unbox, and ZWO ASI-174 comparison.

Post by Dennis »

rsfoto wrote: Wed May 11, 2022 5:33 pm
Dennis wrote: Wed May 11, 2022 5:13 pm
cmas wrote: Wed May 11, 2022 11:22 am Excellent. Please link your images also to this thread. It would also be nice to see how clean the stacked image is with e.g. 400 frames stacked and with what ever low number of images you now stack with Apollo-max. As a reference compared to imx174 to get a better overall idea about the performance.
Maybe this gives a better impression:
Here is a comparison of stacked images (Autostakkert autosharped previews, same method), each of them was the result of a 30 second video.
5% of the best pictures of the 30 sek. timeframe were stacked for both. The only thing that makes comparison a bit difficult is the different max. framerate / resulting exposuretime of the 2 cameras. Also the zoomlevel is not exactly the same.

first one is with the zwo asi 174mm (5% of 4819), second one is with the apollo max (5% of 3278).
Hi Dennis,

Interesting but difficult to judge as you are comparing two different areas. Much easier would have been exactly the same area. IMHO

... but OK and honestly I see no difference ... IMHO again
Hi Rainer,
that is true. I will leave a "proper" comparison up to the vendor or others, since i sold my 174mm : )


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Re: Player One Apollo-M IMX432, unbox, and ZWO ASI-174 comparison.

Post by cmas »

What exp time and gain are you using as you are really pushing the f/ratio close to 70?


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Re: Player One Apollo-M IMX432, unbox, and ZWO ASI-174 comparison.

Post by rsfoto »

Hi Rainer,
that is true. I will leave a "proper" comparison up to the vendor or others, since i sold my 174mm : )
Hallo Dennis,

Well that changes completely the picture ... and I withdraw my comment ...


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Re: Player One Apollo-M IMX432, unbox, and ZWO ASI-174 comparison.

Post by Dennis »

cmas wrote: Wed May 11, 2022 7:29 pm What exp time and gain are you using as you are really pushing the f/ratio close to 70?
Hi,
here is a part of the fileinfo for the image with the apollo:

FireCapture v2.7.09 Settings
------------------------------------
Camera=Apollo-M MAX
Filename=2022-05-11-0632_7-U-G-Sun_Halpha.ser
Date=110522
Start=083230.861
Mid=083245.867
End=083300.873
Start(UT)=063230.861
Mid(UT)=063245.867
End(UT)=063300.873
Duration=30.012s
Date_format=ddMMyy
Time_format=HHmmss
LT=UT +2h
Frames captured=3278
FPS (avg.)=109
File type=SER
Binning=1x1
Bit depth=12bit
Data=Mono
ROI=1608x1104
ROI(Offset)=0x0
Shutter=9.067ms
Gain=282 (45%)
AutoExposure=off
AutoGain=off
Brightness=45
USBTraffic=100
Histogramm(min)=1931
Histogramm(max)=3637
Histogramm=88%
Noise(avg.deviation)=n/a
eADU=n/a
Sensor temperature=46.3°C
Attachments
0632_7_.png
0632_7_.png (897.19 KiB) Viewed 2969 times


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Re: Player One Apollo-M IMX432, unbox, and ZWO ASI-174 comparison.

Post by Alto »

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Re: Player One Apollo-M IMX432, unbox, and ZWO ASI-174 comparison.

Post by TareqPhoto »

I keep thinking about Player One cameras for solar or even planetary as i already have 4 ZWO cameras before i know about Player One to be exist in the past, now i don't know if i should replace and move to PO or not, the only thing that is holding me is if one day i might buy ASIAir which is dedicated for ZWO products, i use Mini PC as Raspberry Pi and windows laptop, and maybe will buy another mini PC for windows who knows, so i want a strong reason to move away from ZWO to Player One cameras.


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Re: Player One Apollo-M IMX432, unbox, and ZWO ASI-174 comparison.

Post by rsfoto »

TareqPhoto wrote: Sat Jul 23, 2022 10:42 am I keep thinking about Player One cameras for solar or even planetary as i already have 4 ZWO cameras before i know about Player One to be exist in the past, now i don't know if i should replace and move to PO or not, the only thing that is holding me is if one day i might buy ASIAir which is dedicated for ZWO products, i use Mini PC as Raspberry Pi and windows laptop, and maybe will buy another mini PC for windows who knows, so i want a strong reason to move away from ZWO to Player One cameras.
Hi Tareq,

Which ZWO cameras do you have ?

And for which Player One cameras do you want to switch ?

BTW, did you know that the Sean Wang, now the maker of Player One cameras, was a former collaborator of ZWO before ?


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Re: Player One Apollo-M IMX432, unbox, and ZWO ASI-174 comparison.

Post by TareqPhoto »

rsfoto wrote: Sat Jul 23, 2022 1:22 pm
TareqPhoto wrote: Sat Jul 23, 2022 10:42 am I keep thinking about Player One cameras for solar or even planetary as i already have 4 ZWO cameras before i know about Player One to be exist in the past, now i don't know if i should replace and move to PO or not, the only thing that is holding me is if one day i might buy ASIAir which is dedicated for ZWO products, i use Mini PC as Raspberry Pi and windows laptop, and maybe will buy another mini PC for windows who knows, so i want a strong reason to move away from ZWO to Player One cameras.
Hi Tareq,

Which ZWO cameras do you have ?

And for which Player One cameras do you want to switch ?

BTW, did you know that the Sean Wang, now the maker of Player One cameras, was a former collaborator of ZWO before ?
The ZWO cameras i have as following even the one that is damaged:

- ASI120MC [USB2.0]
- ASI385MC
- ASI290MM
- ASI178MC
- ASI174MM

I want to replace few such as that ASI174MM to same sensor from Player One, and maybe buy a color version but newer sensor of that 290 with same pixel size, i won't change that 385 or 178, but even 178 i feel i might also replace to same sensor model from Player One, but the two cameras in my mind to buy separately without sacrifice my ZWO yet are Apollo-M Max and maybe Neptune-C II, the first for solar and the second for lunar and planetary.

I didn't know about that Sean Wang was a former ZWO collaborator, he is doing good job with his products, i just missed the opportunity to win one of his cameras back when he made competitions to win something, now i won't buy anything until i sell my ZWO camera and replace to same sensor, and if i get budget by luck then i buy extra cameras, but i have to find a reason to move to Player One from ZWO for same models, i don't want to regret doing it later in future for any reason, and i am not in rush, for solar i will wait the winter by end of this year so i might have budget for Apollo model, while for planetary i will wait until i buy a larger aperture scope first.


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Re: Player One Apollo-M IMX432, unbox, and ZWO ASI-174 comparison.

Post by rsfoto »

I am using an ASI 290MM for my white light images using 630mm focal length and a 1st generation Baader Herschel wedge.

I would suggest first start taking images for a year or two and then think about buying new cameras unless you want to spend money now :lol:


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Re: Player One Apollo-M IMX432, unbox, and ZWO ASI-174 comparison.

Post by TareqPhoto »

rsfoto wrote: Sat Jul 23, 2022 4:45 pm I am using an ASI 290MM for my white light images using 630mm focal length and a 1st generation Baader Herschel wedge.

I would suggest first start taking images for a year or two and then think about buying new cameras unless you want to spend money now :lol:
Hi Rainer,

I have to spend money as soon as possible because life is getting crazier every time, i could have a budget today but tomorrow maybe not, and i always hate to wait longer, and i don't need 1 year to learn, i can image the sun say 1 week if it is not very hot outside and i can learn everything i need, i learn fast but i image very slow or less, so i only follow my new rule:

"Buy everything now and cry/sell later"

:mrgreen: :lol: :lol: :lol: :D


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