Choosing and preparing scopes for solar?

[TareqPhoto]

Hi all,

Soon i will get a budget, and i am about to order a Quark also, and i have Herschel Wedge, so i want to start doing solar imaging or even visual soon, last years i was only focused on DSO and planetary, but both sounds like so headache with me mainly for gear and then time to do them by night, so i think i shouldn't exclude the sun from the equation, and here i am waiting to get things and get ready.

For solar i feel like it is all about which scope and which filter, and as long i will use the wedge and then Quark hopefully means i have to choose the scopes to be used for that, and then make sure the scope is ready for the task, so what should i look at or do with the scope to make it ready?

I will use my ST80 as starter, the cap or cover has that small hole to convert the scope to be smaller aperture and slower, so what is the purpose of doing that? And how can i determine what aperture and speed it will convert to?

Also, i do have Barlow or focal extenders and also reducers, when are they become necessary?

Also, which camera to use if mono, i have 174 mono and 290 mono and 4/3" cooled and additional APS-C mono, which one do you think is good choice for solar imaging with CaK near UV and Ha?

I do have 90mm F6 triplet and FRA400 and Mak 180 and 6"/8" Newt and last 60ED F6 doublets, are those any good to be used? Should i get something else as a cheap achromat refr for example? And if i decide to use the Mak and Newt of those, do i need to use ERF and which one?


I know they are too many questions, i just prepare my setup, i did view the sun today so quick with my ST80 and regular eyepiece, using a solar film, i did add Baader Neodymium filter there, but it is only IR cut filter is that a risk and should i use UV/IR cut filter next time?!!! It was good view but nothing special, just a disk, barely could see any features or details really then i stopped, so i hope to see what a Quark can do for me then.

[DeepSolar64]

Tareq,
Your ST80 will do ok as a starter scope. If it's optically similar to my old ST90 it will do good for low power full disc views. My ST90 never did well for high mag work. The hole in the cap turns the cap into a stop down mask. That can be useful if the seeing is too bad to support the full aperture.

The 90mm triplet should give better performance than the ST80 will and should do better at high magnifications. The larger aperture will mean it will be a bit more vulnerable to poor seeing conditions though.

If you are using visual rated solar film you should be safe. A UV/IR filter wouldn't hurt though.

James

[EGRAY_OBSERVATORY]

Hello again Tareq,

The attached two web-links need be consulted to tell you how the different camera/scope/accessories will perform like, so they will answer most questions.
Otherwise safely experimenting is the way forward, just bearing in mind that unlike Planetary, Deep Sky techniques, both the Sun and Moon are considerably brighter and of course the Sun is extremely hot through telescopes at least.

So as the Sun is the same visual-size from Earth as the Moon, you could start with the MOON by trying camera/scope arrangements safely to get an idea of what you can image as Full-Disk and close-up's... Focusing should be near identical to that of the Sun, but definitely and obviously Solar-filtering is mandatory at all times - when changing to the SUN...

So to use the following web-links will be your next step - applying what gear you currently have or will be getting...

https://astronomy.tools/calculators/field_of_view/
for FOV

https://astronomy.tools/calculators/ccd_suitability
for camera/pixel size recommendation.

Best Wishes
Terry

[TareqPhoto]

Tareq,
Your ST80 will do ok as a starter scope. If it's optically similar to my old ST90 it will do good for low power full disc views. My ST90 never did well for high mag work. The hole in the cap turns the cap into a stop down mask. That can be useful if the seeing is too bad to support the full aperture.

The 90mm triplet should give better performance than the ST80 will and should do better at high magnifications. The larger aperture will mean it will be a bit more vulnerable to poor seeing conditions though.

If you are using visual rated solar film you should be safe. A UV/IR filter wouldn't hurt though.

James

I can use my 90mm triplet, but i keep reading and seeing people using achromat scopes over triplets or quads, even doublet of ED, so that is telling something, maybe more lenses/optics won't help much for solar as it is one band anyway? I have open choices and i will use them, but i want to save time and go directly to the correct choice rather than keep testing al or most scopes to find out which one, but fun is fun anyway, and i am not going to use only and only ST80 forever, definitely i will use more scopes for that, but i am thinking about my reflectors, at least my Mak, but mirrors are more prone for heat risks so i have to be careful about when and how to use it.

Good to know that a solar film is safe enough, i also do have that eclipse solar glasses, but i kept that only for fun, i am sure they made it for safety viewing, so i assume the solar film is the same.

Thanks James

[TareqPhoto]

Hello again Tareq,

The attached two web-links need be consulted to tell you how the different camera/scope/accessories will perform like, so they will answer most questions.
Otherwise safely experimenting is the way forward, just bearing in mind that unlike Planetary, Deep Sky techniques, both the Sun and Moon are considerably brighter and of course the Sun is extremely hot through telescopes at least.

So as the Sun is the same visual-size from Earth as the Moon, you could start with the MOON by trying camera/scope arrangements safely to get an idea of what you can image as Full-Disk and close-up's... Focusing should be near identical to that of the Sun, but definitely and obviously Solar-filtering is mandatory at all times - when changing to the SUN...

So to use the following web-links will be your next step - applying what gear you currently have or will be getting...

https://astronomy.tools/calculators/field_of_view/
for FOV

https://astronomy.tools/calculators/ccd_suitability
for camera/pixel size recommendation.

Best Wishes
Terry

Hello Terry

I am not asking about FOV, because i know about FOV completely, i did lunar imaging for long time now, but maybe i was asking about the performance i can get, like sharpness, contrast, focus, and whatever else, i did shoot the sun once or twice in the past with that solar film i have and i saw the results, but nothing interesting as no details and nothing at all even spots, but maybe that time the sun was off active anyway.

I still think about what kind of look i want, is it full disc, or close up for the surface, prominence, or just anything to keep myself warm [and hot] but the sun, it is just for fun, i am not having very specific things in my mind, for example i am not dying for best visual, if i can see something nice then good, if not it is not a big deal for me, i looked at the moon and planets with amazing mind blowing views but i stopped and moved on, and the sun in my country is super super bright and super hot, so i won't torture myself to have with that, imaging for me is always top priority, but won't do it under extreme conditions.

Thanks again Terry

[EGRAY_OBSERVATORY]

Then other than experimenting with what you've already acquired Tariq, there's little more to add under your specifications and the hot Sun.

Utilising the masses of information already posted here on SOLARCHAT with its' various different pages and subjects, archive material is freely available from the knowledge of others over the last 14-years or so, who have succeeded in posting such excellent (or better) images for you to take samples of...

Best Wishes
Terry

[TareqPhoto]

Then other than experimenting with what you've already acquired Tariq, there's little more to add under your specifications and the hot Sun.

Utilising the masses of information already posted here on SOLARCHAT with its' various different pages and subjects, archive material is freely available from the knowledge of others over the last 14-years or so, who have succeeded in posting such excellent (or better) images for you to take samples of...

Best Wishes
Terry

Excellent Terry, thank you very much

I can't wait to get the Quark and put all my gear into use and see, i just need to do few things as addition, then i can be ready.

Tareq

[DeepSolar64]

Tareq,
Using an achromat is not an issue at all as long as narrowband filters are used and the lens is of high quality. I have a 70mm Orion achromat that is an F7.1 focal ratio. I was really skeptical on using it for white light without a narrowband filter at the eyepiece. CA is visible but not bad enough to be overly intrusive. Typically the longer focal ratio refractors have less CA than the short ones. My ST90 had substantial CA for it was a short FR scope. My Orion70 has a glass filter over the objective as it’s main filter.

I use a wedge with my AT72EDII and C102 refractors. The AT72EDII is an ED doublet with two different ED glasses. I have never noticed any chromatic aberration while using it.

James.

[TareqPhoto]

Tareq,
Using an achromat is not an issue at all as long as narrowband filters are used and the lens is of high quality. I have a 70mm Orion achromat that is an F7.1 focal ratio. I was really skeptical on using it for white light without a narrowband filter at the eyepiece. CA is visible but not bad enough to be overly intrusive. Typically the longer focal ratio refractors have less CA than the short ones. My ST90 had substantial CA for it was a short FR scope. My Orion70 has a glass filter over the objective as it’s main filter.

I use a wedge with my AT72EDII and C102 refractors. The AT72EDII is an ED doublet with two different ED glasses. I have never noticed any chromatic aberration while using it.

James.

Ok, i will use all scopes refractors i have and see what i will get, thank you again James.

Regards,
Tareq

[DeepSolar64]

Reflectors will work you just can’t use a solar wedge with them.

[TareqPhoto]

Reflectors will work you just can’t use a solar wedge with them.

So, only the quark but not the solar wedge, why?

Not a problem, for solar wedge maybe i will buy something like 100-120mm refractor be it an achromatic for price or cheapest ED one and give it a try if i want to have better close up or resolution with larger aperture, but i will test my current refr first, largest i have is my 90mm

[DeepSolar64]

It's something about the heat damaging the secondary mirror in a reflector if a wedge is used. The heat enters the scope unfiltered and the secondary is in the light path. There is no secondary mirror in the light path of a refractor.

I think an ERF is still required to protect a Quark from excessive heat in a reflector or a refractor larger than 80mm. I myself wonder why an ERF cannot protect a reflector from heat buildup and allow a wedge to be used with a reflector. Maybe someone here can answer that. I really do not know. I wonder if a Quark can be used with a reflector at all? Maybe someone will chime in with answers. There is much I don't know.

JP

[TareqPhoto]

It's something about the heat damaging the secondary mirror in a reflector if a wedge is used. The heat enters the scope unfiltered and the secondary is in the light path. There is no secondary mirror in the light path of a refractor.

I think an ERF is still required to protect a Quark from excessive heat in a reflector or a refractor larger than 80mm. I myself wonder why an ERF cannot protect a reflector from heat buildup and allow a wedge to be used with a reflector. Maybe someone here can answer that. I really do not know. I wonder if a Quark can be used with a reflector at all? Maybe someone will chime in with answers. There is much I don't know.

JP

Daystar mentioned that with the Quark combo version it is possible to use it with any scope as SCT or Mak or Refractor with F/15 and slower, they will never mention SCT and Mak if it isn't possible, and i won't use the Newt, only my 6" Newt is a possible but i prefer to use my Mak as it is lightweight and very slow with F/15, i can add PM 2x to go up to F/30, but i think they mentioned that it is a necessary to use ERF, and i saw some used reflectors with ERF and decent results, so i have time to read about it, and if it is possible with the Quark using ERF i don't see why it isn't possible with the Wedge also.

[DeepSolar64]

That’s good to know.

[TareqPhoto]

Someone did reply me elsewhere telling me that ERF isn't good for WL, he has a point, so i think i won't make it a big deal, i will buy a Quark for Ha with any scope but i will focus more on refractors, and leave my WL CaK for refractors only for now, i don't have to use everything together and then i damage something, if the mirror will concentrate the heat of the sun then i better stay away from reflectors at this point, i have time to learn with refractor scopes, and i can add cheaper longer refractors if i want more reach, it is not a big issue, and buying ERF is also expensive if i want a reliable high quality known brand one.

I got the budget, so soon i will order, i just checking out more accessories not related to solar but related to astro in general so i can order all at once.

[DeepSolar64]

Refractors seem to dominate amateur solar astronomy but there are some good work done with reflector and catadioptric scopes too. I myself would like to have a solar newtonian equipped with an uncoated mirror to do high resolution white light. A 150 to 200mm scope.

A 150mm refractor would be nice too!

James

[TareqPhoto]

Refractors seem to dominate amateur solar astronomy but there are some good work done with reflector and catadioptric scopes too. I myself would like to have a solar newtonian equipped with an uncoated mirror to do high resolution white light. A 150 to 200mm scope.

A 150mm refractor would be nice too!

James

I have 6" [150mm] and 8" [200mm] Newtonian scopes, so they can be available for solar if possible, but i keep using my Mak back in the past for lunar and planetary due to easy of use and compact size, so i will wait and read more about reflectors until i know what i need to have if i want to use those reflectors, for simple WL i can easily place a solar film filter in front of the scope and start imaging or visual, but that won't give much as Ha or CaK, i will see later what i can do.

I can buy a cheap achromatic 150mm refractor, or even ED of a brand affordable, so then i don't know if the Quark will make this telescope combo like a magic, mostly i see amazing results from the Quark by using larger aperture scopes, so i can think to add that long scope if necessary.

Tareq

[DeepSolar64]

I have 4.25", 6", 10.1" and 12" newtonians. I am seriously considering a 6" Celestron F10 achromat myself. I have a 4" F10 achromat already that I use for solar mounted alongside the Coronado SolarMax II 90.

James

[TareqPhoto]

I have 4.25", 6", 10.1" and 12" newtonians. I am seriously considering a 6" Celestron F10 achromat myself. I have a 4" F10 achromat already that I use for solar mounted alongside the Coronado SolarMax II 90.

James

Ok, the update or news, i did order the Quark [combo version] just now, the seller will ship it maybe tomorrow or after tomorrow, so i can't wait, i just hope i can have time very soon to do any type of imaging as i didn't test my Wedge yet.

Nice to have that collection, i will use my ST80 which i can convert it to maybe i think 60mm F/10, but i don't know if i will use the wedge should i keep it like that i should i use something like 3x or 5x magnifier to be at about F/30 or F/50.

Tareq

[DeepSolar64]

Using the aperture mask cap on the ST80 will be useful in poor seeing and many reduce the aperture while using 430nm or Calcium K line filters. The WL wedge should work fine with the ST80.

Congratulations on your Quark purchase! Did you get the Chromosphere or Prominence version?

James

[TareqPhoto]

Using the aperture mask cap on the ST80 will be useful in poor seeing and many reduce the aperture while using 430nm or Calcium K line filters. The WL wedge should work fine with the ST80.

Congratulations on your Quark purchase! Did you get the Chromosphere or Prominence version?

James

We will see once i use the scope and more scopes.

I told the seller to send me the Chromosphere version, i was looking at Gemini model which has both modes and can change between them, but it is so pricey, almost double price of standard version of either, and Chromosphere is the one i need for surface details.

[DeepSolar64]

That's the one I would have chosen. The Quark Chromosphere.

[TareqPhoto]

That's the one I would have chosen. The Quark Chromosphere.

Thank you very much for all help, an sorry i didn't go with Lunt or SolarMax models.

Tareq

[DeepSolar64]

Welcome, If you get a good Quark they do well. Look at the outstanding images Simon does with his. He's among the best imagers here.

James

[TareqPhoto]

Welcome, If you get a good Quark they do well. Look at the outstanding images Simon does with his. He's among the best imagers here.

James

I will definitely look at him once i find find his posts, and i saw some others using it with remarkable results, so i can't wait to have my turn as well.

Tareq

[DeepSolar64]

Good luck Tareq!!

[TareqPhoto]

Good luck Tareq!!

I hope so, thanks

[DeepSolar64]

I always wondered what the difference between the Quark and Quark Combo was. Upon looking it up the biggest difference I see is the regular Quark is for scopes between F4 and F8. The Combo version is for longer focal length instruments like long focal length achromats and catadioptric scopes. SCT, Maks etc. F10 and over.

James

[TareqPhoto]

I always wondered what the difference between the Quark and Quark Combo was. Upon looking it up the biggest difference I see is the regular Quark is for scopes between F4 and F8. The Combo version is for longer focal length instruments like long focal length achromats and catadioptric scopes. SCT, Maks etc. F10 and over.

James

Yes, and that is why i went with the combo over the regular, so no telecentric, this way i can control what i want to add or use, i have Powermate and Barlow, so it is more flexible for me, and the regular has that 4.?x Barlow that is why they said scopes between F4 and F8.

I think later i might buy something like 120mm achromatic scope with F8-F9, buying an ERF for my Mak 180mm is more expansive, unless if i buy a smaller Mak like Mak 127 or similar where it has that long focal length but small enough, but i don't know if it is still needs a front mount ERF as it has mirror, and mirrors are always risky in solar imaging inside the scope.

[DeepSolar64]

Makes sense. You chose the right Quark. I would probably use an ERF on the Mak to reduce internal heating. Hopefully one more knowledgeable on such matters will chime in.

James

[TareqPhoto]

Makes sense. You chose the right Quark. I would probably use an ERF on the Mak to reduce internal heating. Hopefully one more knowledgeable on such matters will chime in.

James

With the help we all learn, that is how i got into astronomy in general, and hopefully i can enjoy the solar imaging/visual also, not sure i will enjoy it during summer or extreme hot times, but i want to give it a go anyway.

Tareq