2022 03 24 - Experimental barlow setup!
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2022 03 24 - Experimental barlow setup!
Decided to go extreme today with a 2x and 4x Powermate on the Daystar Gemini today since seeing was 4/5 and borderline 5/5 for some moments.
Took a lot of sitting around in my new tent that i got to keep the sun off me while imaging. I had a lot of high clouds from contrails that had formed which messed with the brightness and contrast on a lot of the data. (FYI if they take AGES to dissipate, it means seeing is good).
2X POWERMATE 2X POWERMATE 2X POWERMATE 4X POWERMATE
Took a lot of sitting around in my new tent that i got to keep the sun off me while imaging. I had a lot of high clouds from contrails that had formed which messed with the brightness and contrast on a lot of the data. (FYI if they take AGES to dissipate, it means seeing is good).
2X POWERMATE 2X POWERMATE 2X POWERMATE 4X POWERMATE
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Re: 2022 03 24 - Experimental barlow setup!
Stunning work, Simon!
What focallength, f-number, gain and exposuretime did you use?
Best regards,
Arne
What focallength, f-number, gain and exposuretime did you use?
Best regards,
Arne
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Re: 2022 03 24 - Experimental barlow setup!
They look great Simon. I would have bought an Apollo M Max camera if I would have waited another year to purchase a camera. They seem well liked and seem to be stealing some action from ZWO.
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Re: 2022 03 24 - Experimental barlow setup!
Nice shots there Simon, you have lovely blue skies!
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Re: 2022 03 24 - Experimental barlow setup!
Its 1200mm at f/8.0, the exposure time vary depending on what im doing, with the barlow, i aim for 6ms and gain of 300 or higher, since clouds kept drifting pass the view, some of the data was bad.
arnedanielsen wrote: ↑Thu Mar 24, 2022 8:26 pm Stunning work, Simon!
What focallength, f-number, gain and exposuretime did you use?
Best regards,
Arne
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Re: 2022 03 24 - Experimental barlow setup!
Player One are fast becoming a serious contender and more importantly is the QC. I hate to say it, but ZWOs QC has recently been lacking with varying issues.
DeepSolar64 wrote: ↑Thu Mar 24, 2022 8:37 pm They look great Simon. I would have bought an Apollo M Max camera if I would have waited another year to purchase a camera. They seem well liked and seem to be stealing some action from ZWO.
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Re: 2022 03 24 - Experimental barlow setup!
Excellent! I agree, long lasting contrails do indicate good seeing, unfortunately they also seem to always drift right in front of the sun!
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Re: 2022 03 24 - Experimental barlow setup!
True that!!
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Re: 2022 03 24 - Experimental barlow setup!
Excellent results
regards Rainer
Observatorio Real de 14
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North 22° West 101°
Observatorio Real de 14
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Re: 2022 03 24 - Experimental barlow setup!
A fantastic set of images, Simon. A highly successful experiment!
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Re: 2022 03 24 - Experimental barlow setup!
Curious Simon, how do you find the ADC working in the optical train?
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Re: 2022 03 24 - Experimental barlow setup!
I use it as an interference eliminator, however it does mean more surfaces with more dirt, if i moves in the slightest, the flats are useless.
marktownley wrote: ↑Fri Mar 25, 2022 6:33 am Curious Simon, how do you find the ADC working in the optical train?
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Re: 2022 03 24 - Experimental barlow setup!
That is like 1 meter long of setup from the scope, is those all necessary? Too much, and i see results done with much less extensions back focus and same results, so i keep asking myself what is the purpose to have that much tools stacked on each other.
What made you to think about using the Powermate after the Quark and not before? Also that ADC as last piece before the camera? And what is that you used between the scope and the Quark?
What made you to think about using the Powermate after the Quark and not before? Also that ADC as last piece before the camera? And what is that you used between the scope and the Quark?
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Re: 2022 03 24 - Experimental barlow setup!
And because i am new here, and people know your setup already, what scope did you use? And which Player One camera model is that?
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Re: 2022 03 24 - Experimental barlow setup!
The tubes are required if you do not want to extend your focuser out, also it gives me the ability to embed the ERF further down the light path, away from the Quark.
All scopes come to focus at different points, and the higher the f/number, the longer the scope.
Also, having a 4.2x barlow built into the Quark pushes the focus back considerably when using a slower scope.
In regards to the powermate, the reason i have not done it yet is partly to do with the quark only having 1.25" holder. Since the 2 Powermates that I used are 2", I had to get an adapter as well as the t-ring. Neither of which i had, nor has anyone really tested that ive seen. You can use a regular barlow but the light cone will no longer be telecentric and will cause optical issues. The ADC is used as an interference eliminator.
Im using an EvoStar 150DX with the Apollo-MAX
All scopes come to focus at different points, and the higher the f/number, the longer the scope.
Also, having a 4.2x barlow built into the Quark pushes the focus back considerably when using a slower scope.
In regards to the powermate, the reason i have not done it yet is partly to do with the quark only having 1.25" holder. Since the 2 Powermates that I used are 2", I had to get an adapter as well as the t-ring. Neither of which i had, nor has anyone really tested that ive seen. You can use a regular barlow but the light cone will no longer be telecentric and will cause optical issues. The ADC is used as an interference eliminator.
Im using an EvoStar 150DX with the Apollo-MAX
TareqPhoto wrote: ↑Fri Mar 25, 2022 10:18 pm That is like 1 meter long of setup from the scope, is those all necessary? Too much, and i see results done with much less extensions back focus and same results, so i keep asking myself what is the purpose to have that much tools stacked on each other.
What made you to think about using the Powermate after the Quark and not before? Also that ADC as last piece before the camera? And what is that you used between the scope and the Quark?
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Re: 2022 03 24 - Experimental barlow setup!
Thank you very muchSimon2940 wrote: ↑Sun Mar 27, 2022 3:55 am The tubes are required if you do not want to extend your focuser out, also it gives me the ability to embed the ERF further down the light path, away from the Quark.
All scopes come to focus at different points, and the higher the f/number, the longer the scope.
Also, having a 4.2x barlow built into the Quark pushes the focus back considerably when using a slower scope.
In regards to the powermate, the reason i have not done it yet is partly to do with the quark only having 1.25" holder. Since the 2 Powermates that I used are 2", I had to get an adapter as well as the t-ring. Neither of which i had, nor has anyone really tested that ive seen. You can use a regular barlow but the light cone will no longer be telecentric and will cause optical issues. The ADC is used as an interference eliminator.
Im using an EvoStar 150DX with the Apollo-MAX
TareqPhoto wrote: ↑Fri Mar 25, 2022 10:18 pm That is like 1 meter long of setup from the scope, is those all necessary? Too much, and i see results done with much less extensions back focus and same results, so i keep asking myself what is the purpose to have that much tools stacked on each other.
What made you to think about using the Powermate after the Quark and not before? Also that ADC as last piece before the camera? And what is that you used between the scope and the Quark?
It is difficult to understand this.
Ok, my version of the Quark is ZERO barlow, so it means i need to use one by myself, i do have Powermate 2x which is 2" and Powermate 5x which is 1.25" and also Tele Vue 3x which is 1.25" Barlow not telecentric, so which one to use here?
I do have ADC, should i use that as an interference eliminator as you mentioned and not buying another tool for that?
I am not sure which scope i will use, so maybe because my Quark isn't Barlowed so it means i need less extensions or tubes, and i am thinking about using a diagonal there maybe, or you think it is better to keep it straight path?
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Re: 2022 03 24 - Experimental barlow setup!
You haven't said which scope you are using. If you are using what is called the Quark Combo which is the version with no barlow, on a refractor, then you already have a problem.
TareqPhoto wrote: ↑Sun Mar 27, 2022 5:36 amThank you very muchSimon2940 wrote: ↑Sun Mar 27, 2022 3:55 am The tubes are required if you do not want to extend your focuser out, also it gives me the ability to embed the ERF further down the light path, away from the Quark.
All scopes come to focus at different points, and the higher the f/number, the longer the scope.
Also, having a 4.2x barlow built into the Quark pushes the focus back considerably when using a slower scope.
In regards to the powermate, the reason i have not done it yet is partly to do with the quark only having 1.25" holder. Since the 2 Powermates that I used are 2", I had to get an adapter as well as the t-ring. Neither of which i had, nor has anyone really tested that ive seen. You can use a regular barlow but the light cone will no longer be telecentric and will cause optical issues. The ADC is used as an interference eliminator.
Im using an EvoStar 150DX with the Apollo-MAX
TareqPhoto wrote: ↑Fri Mar 25, 2022 10:18 pm That is like 1 meter long of setup from the scope, is those all necessary? Too much, and i see results done with much less extensions back focus and same results, so i keep asking myself what is the purpose to have that much tools stacked on each other.
What made you to think about using the Powermate after the Quark and not before? Also that ADC as last piece before the camera? And what is that you used between the scope and the Quark?
It is difficult to understand this.
Ok, my version of the Quark is ZERO barlow, so it means i need to use one by myself, i do have Powermate 2x which is 2" and Powermate 5x which is 1.25" and also Tele Vue 3x which is 1.25" Barlow not telecentric, so which one to use here?
I do have ADC, should i use that as an interference eliminator as you mentioned and not buying another tool for that?
I am not sure which scope i will use, so maybe because my Quark isn't Barlowed so it means i need less extensions or tubes, and i am thinking about using a diagonal there maybe, or you think it is better to keep it straight path?
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Re: 2022 03 24 - Experimental barlow setup!
Yes, it is the Quark Combo version, so what is the problem?Simon2940 wrote: ↑Sun Mar 27, 2022 6:17 pm You haven't said which scope you are using. If you are using what is called the Quark Combo which is the version with no barlow, on a refractor, then you already have a problem.
TareqPhoto wrote: ↑Sun Mar 27, 2022 5:36 amThank you very muchSimon2940 wrote: ↑Sun Mar 27, 2022 3:55 am The tubes are required if you do not want to extend your focuser out, also it gives me the ability to embed the ERF further down the light path, away from the Quark.
All scopes come to focus at different points, and the higher the f/number, the longer the scope.
Also, having a 4.2x barlow built into the Quark pushes the focus back considerably when using a slower scope.
In regards to the powermate, the reason i have not done it yet is partly to do with the quark only having 1.25" holder. Since the 2 Powermates that I used are 2", I had to get an adapter as well as the t-ring. Neither of which i had, nor has anyone really tested that ive seen. You can use a regular barlow but the light cone will no longer be telecentric and will cause optical issues. The ADC is used as an interference eliminator.
Im using an EvoStar 150DX with the Apollo-MAX
It is difficult to understand this.
Ok, my version of the Quark is ZERO barlow, so it means i need to use one by myself, i do have Powermate 2x which is 2" and Powermate 5x which is 1.25" and also Tele Vue 3x which is 1.25" Barlow not telecentric, so which one to use here?
I do have ADC, should i use that as an interference eliminator as you mentioned and not buying another tool for that?
I am not sure which scope i will use, so maybe because my Quark isn't Barlowed so it means i need less extensions or tubes, and i am thinking about using a diagonal there maybe, or you think it is better to keep it straight path?
I am now using Skywatcher ST80, but the focuser has an issue when i tried to install a motor so now i am not longer going to use it, instead i will use 90mm F/6 triplet, it has a motor but not operated yet, hopefully soon, but i can't stop it down as i don't have any aperture mask thing, i do also have another refractors but i feel maybe i should now stick with 90mm, or i will try with 60 doublet.
The scope i am thinking about to buy in future for solar is something like 120mm aperture refractor, for more close ups, i am thinking about a version that is slow to give me about 1200mm focal length, so what will be my setup different than yours except the Quark version?!!!
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Re: 2022 03 24 - Experimental barlow setup!
The combo is not meant for refractors at native focal ratios. They are made for SCT scopes with aperture reduction masks and ERFs.
If you read the instructions, you will find that the Quark needs to operate on at around f22
I strongly suggest you get in touch Daystar directly
If you read the instructions, you will find that the Quark needs to operate on at around f22
I strongly suggest you get in touch Daystar directly
TareqPhoto wrote: ↑Sun Mar 27, 2022 7:46 pmYes, it is the Quark Combo version, so what is the problem?Simon2940 wrote: ↑Sun Mar 27, 2022 6:17 pm You haven't said which scope you are using. If you are using what is called the Quark Combo which is the version with no barlow, on a refractor, then you already have a problem.
TareqPhoto wrote: ↑Sun Mar 27, 2022 5:36 am
Thank you very much
It is difficult to understand this.
Ok, my version of the Quark is ZERO barlow, so it means i need to use one by myself, i do have Powermate 2x which is 2" and Powermate 5x which is 1.25" and also Tele Vue 3x which is 1.25" Barlow not telecentric, so which one to use here?
I do have ADC, should i use that as an interference eliminator as you mentioned and not buying another tool for that?
I am not sure which scope i will use, so maybe because my Quark isn't Barlowed so it means i need less extensions or tubes, and i am thinking about using a diagonal there maybe, or you think it is better to keep it straight path?
I am now using Skywatcher ST80, but the focuser has an issue when i tried to install a motor so now i am not longer going to use it, instead i will use 90mm F/6 triplet, it has a motor but not operated yet, hopefully soon, but i can't stop it down as i don't have any aperture mask thing, i do also have another refractors but i feel maybe i should now stick with 90mm, or i will try with 60 doublet.
The scope i am thinking about to buy in future for solar is something like 120mm aperture refractor, for more close ups, i am thinking about a version that is slow to give me about 1200mm focal length, so what will be my setup different than yours except the Quark version?!!!
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Re: 2022 03 24 - Experimental barlow setup!
From Daystar site http://www.daystarfilters.com/COMBOQuark.shtml it is mentioned as this:Simon2940 wrote: ↑Mon Mar 28, 2022 8:51 pm The combo is not meant for refractors at native focal ratios. They are made for SCT scopes with aperture reduction masks and ERFs.
If you read the instructions, you will find that the Quark needs to operate on at around f22
I strongly suggest you get in touch Daystar directly
TareqPhoto wrote: ↑Sun Mar 27, 2022 7:46 pmYes, it is the Quark Combo version, so what is the problem?
I am now using Skywatcher ST80, but the focuser has an issue when i tried to install a motor so now i am not longer going to use it, instead i will use 90mm F/6 triplet, it has a motor but not operated yet, hopefully soon, but i can't stop it down as i don't have any aperture mask thing, i do also have another refractors but i feel maybe i should now stick with 90mm, or i will try with 60 doublet.
The scope i am thinking about to buy in future for solar is something like 120mm aperture refractor, for more close ups, i am thinking about a version that is slow to give me about 1200mm focal length, so what will be my setup different than yours except the Quark version?!!!
"New for Summer, 2015, the Combo Quark brings quick, easy fun of the Original Quark to SCT, Maksutov and ~F/15 refractor owners"
So refractors are included as much it is F/15 or slower, now if i use a refractor say with F/5 and i added 3x Barlow, isn't this going to be a F/15 scope? Or it must be F/15 natively only?
I have a Mak 180mm with F/15 native, buying a frontal ERF is so much expensive for this size.
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Re: 2022 03 24 - Experimental barlow setup!
Yes u can use a 3X Powermate to get to f/15 however your spacing will be off making your back focus extremely long meaning your going to need more extension tubes than i have.
TareqPhoto wrote: ↑Tue Mar 29, 2022 12:13 amFrom Daystar site http://www.daystarfilters.com/COMBOQuark.shtml it is mentioned as this:Simon2940 wrote: ↑Mon Mar 28, 2022 8:51 pm The combo is not meant for refractors at native focal ratios. They are made for SCT scopes with aperture reduction masks and ERFs.
If you read the instructions, you will find that the Quark needs to operate on at around f22
I strongly suggest you get in touch Daystar directly
TareqPhoto wrote: ↑Sun Mar 27, 2022 7:46 pm
Yes, it is the Quark Combo version, so what is the problem?
I am now using Skywatcher ST80, but the focuser has an issue when i tried to install a motor so now i am not longer going to use it, instead i will use 90mm F/6 triplet, it has a motor but not operated yet, hopefully soon, but i can't stop it down as i don't have any aperture mask thing, i do also have another refractors but i feel maybe i should now stick with 90mm, or i will try with 60 doublet.
The scope i am thinking about to buy in future for solar is something like 120mm aperture refractor, for more close ups, i am thinking about a version that is slow to give me about 1200mm focal length, so what will be my setup different than yours except the Quark version?!!!
"New for Summer, 2015, the Combo Quark brings quick, easy fun of the Original Quark to SCT, Maksutov and ~F/15 refractor owners"
So refractors are included as much it is F/15 or slower, now if i use a refractor say with F/5 and i added 3x Barlow, isn't this going to be a F/15 scope? Or it must be F/15 natively only?
I have a Mak 180mm with F/15 native, buying a frontal ERF is so much expensive for this size.
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Re: 2022 03 24 - Experimental barlow setup!
More extensions isn't a problem, that is why i said i want to use a diagonal, also i have tube extensions, and i do have ADC if that is an alternative to interference eliminator, but i really didn't know that imaging the sun needs all that much of back focus, i used A wedge and K-Line filter and it didn't take all that much of long back focus, not sure about the Quark, i will give it a try one day.
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Re: 2022 03 24 - Experimental barlow setup!
Hi Tareq,
I have a Quark Chromosphere with internal 4.2x barlow.
I don't have a Quark Combo, but I am unsure if I can use a low Focal ratio refractor.
I was wondering if I can beat a Celestron C14 by using a 5x barlow with a 120mm ED refractor at F9, so I have a focal length approx 5000 mm, much better than a Celestron C14, saving me 11000 USDollars in the process !!
Magnus
I have a Quark Chromosphere with internal 4.2x barlow.
I don't have a Quark Combo, but I am unsure if I can use a low Focal ratio refractor.
I was wondering if I can beat a Celestron C14 by using a 5x barlow with a 120mm ED refractor at F9, so I have a focal length approx 5000 mm, much better than a Celestron C14, saving me 11000 USDollars in the process !!
Magnus
Solar: H-alpha": Quark Chromosphere filter; Baader white light filters
Scopes: Altair Astro Travel ED70mm (F 420mm, D=70mm);; Skywatcher 90mm (F 910mm D=90mm); GSO focuser;;Altair Astro 60mm guidescope (D=60mm,F=225mm)
Cameras: ASI120mm-S,ASI174mm
Mount: SW HEQ5 Pro, SW EQ3 Pro Synscan (SW = Skywatcher),Vixen Polarie tracker (portable setup)
Accessory: SW Auto-focuser
Scopes: Altair Astro Travel ED70mm (F 420mm, D=70mm);; Skywatcher 90mm (F 910mm D=90mm); GSO focuser;;Altair Astro 60mm guidescope (D=60mm,F=225mm)
Cameras: ASI120mm-S,ASI174mm
Mount: SW HEQ5 Pro, SW EQ3 Pro Synscan (SW = Skywatcher),Vixen Polarie tracker (portable setup)
Accessory: SW Auto-focuser
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Re: 2022 03 24 - Experimental barlow setup!
Magnus,Boso36 wrote: ↑Wed Mar 30, 2022 11:51 am Hi Tareq,
I have a Quark Chromosphere with internal 4.2x barlow.
I don't have a Quark Combo, but I am unsure if I can use a low Focal ratio refractor.
I was wondering if I can beat a Celestron C14 by using a 5x barlow with a 120mm ED refractor at F9, so I have a focal length approx 5000 mm, much better than a Celestron C14, saving me 11000 USDollars in the process !!
Magnus
It is very funny that Daystar is making Quark combo for no use, i don't think all people buying it will use either SCT or Mak, i do have the Mak with F/15, and i have PM 2x so i can crank that up to F/30, but if i can do that with reflector i can do that with refractors, so i can buy something like F8-F11 refr and place PM 2x or even PM 5x and i am there already, so why that won't work compared to the Quark with Barlow 4.2x, i feel people don't know if they don't test and then assume the worse, i bought this combo so i can use Barlow or focal extender myself.
Tareq
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Re: 2022 03 24 - Experimental barlow setup!
Correct me if I am wrong but I understand that rear mounted etalons must have a parallel beam free of curvature entering the system. With f30 for Solarspectrum, is it f32 for a Quark? in order for the etalon to work at it's specified FWHM.
Therefore, this is why a Quark comes with a 4.2 telecentric before the Quark to achieve this. A telecentric is needed as powermates and barlows cause curvature of the light beam.
If you were to use a powermate or barlow it would have to come before the Quark not after it to achieve the correct f number entering it.
In cases like my C11 which is already at f10, I would get f42 if I used the standard Quark which would be too much. So they sell the Quark combo so I could choose to add a TZ3 before the Quark and get f30 instead.
I've lost the plot in this thread so I hope I haven't said what has already been said
Alexandra
Therefore, this is why a Quark comes with a 4.2 telecentric before the Quark to achieve this. A telecentric is needed as powermates and barlows cause curvature of the light beam.
If you were to use a powermate or barlow it would have to come before the Quark not after it to achieve the correct f number entering it.
In cases like my C11 which is already at f10, I would get f42 if I used the standard Quark which would be too much. So they sell the Quark combo so I could choose to add a TZ3 before the Quark and get f30 instead.
I've lost the plot in this thread so I hope I haven't said what has already been said
Alexandra