2022 03 24 - Experimental barlow setup!

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2022 03 24 - Experimental barlow setup!

Post by Simon2940 »

Decided to go extreme today with a 2x and 4x Powermate on the Daystar Gemini today since seeing was 4/5 and borderline 5/5 for some moments.

Took a lot of sitting around in my new tent that i got to keep the sun off me while imaging. I had a lot of high clouds from contrails that had formed which messed with the brightness and contrast on a lot of the data. (FYI if they take AGES to dissipate, it means seeing is good).
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001.jpg (2.46 MiB) Viewed 1584 times
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2X POWERMATE
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003.jpg (495.7 KiB) Viewed 1584 times
2X POWERMATE
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2X POWERMATE
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006.jpg (475.63 KiB) Viewed 1584 times
4X POWERMATE
005.jpg
005.jpg (643.28 KiB) Viewed 1584 times
PXL_20220324_170431357 copy.jpg
PXL_20220324_170431357 copy.jpg (246.9 KiB) Viewed 1584 times


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Re: 2022 03 24 - Experimental barlow setup!

Post by arnedanielsen »

Stunning work, Simon!

What focallength, f-number, gain and exposuretime did you use?

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Re: 2022 03 24 - Experimental barlow setup!

Post by DeepSolar64 »

They look great Simon. I would have bought an Apollo M Max camera if I would have waited another year to purchase a camera. They seem well liked and seem to be stealing some action from ZWO.


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Re: 2022 03 24 - Experimental barlow setup!

Post by marktownley »

Nice shots there Simon, you have lovely blue skies!


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Re: 2022 03 24 - Experimental barlow setup!

Post by Simon2940 »

Its 1200mm at f/8.0, the exposure time vary depending on what im doing, with the barlow, i aim for 6ms and gain of 300 or higher, since clouds kept drifting pass the view, some of the data was bad.
arnedanielsen wrote: Thu Mar 24, 2022 8:26 pm Stunning work, Simon!

What focallength, f-number, gain and exposuretime did you use?

Best regards,
Arne


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Re: 2022 03 24 - Experimental barlow setup!

Post by Simon2940 »

Player One are fast becoming a serious contender and more importantly is the QC. I hate to say it, but ZWOs QC has recently been lacking with varying issues.
DeepSolar64 wrote: Thu Mar 24, 2022 8:37 pm They look great Simon. I would have bought an Apollo M Max camera if I would have waited another year to purchase a camera. They seem well liked and seem to be stealing some action from ZWO.


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Re: 2022 03 24 - Experimental barlow setup!

Post by Ibbo »

Lovely images


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Re: 2022 03 24 - Experimental barlow setup!

Post by jacinto »

Excellent results with the barlow setup, good job Simon


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Re: 2022 03 24 - Experimental barlow setup!

Post by rigel123 »

Excellent! I agree, long lasting contrails do indicate good seeing, unfortunately they also seem to always drift right in front of the sun!


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Re: 2022 03 24 - Experimental barlow setup!

Post by DeepSolar64 »

rigel123 wrote: Fri Mar 25, 2022 1:03 am Excellent! I agree, long lasting contrails do indicate good seeing, unfortunately they also seem to always drift right in front of the sun!

True that!!


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Re: 2022 03 24 - Experimental barlow setup!

Post by rsfoto »

Excellent results


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Re: 2022 03 24 - Experimental barlow setup!

Post by Simon2940 »

Thats exactly what was happening today!
rigel123 wrote: Fri Mar 25, 2022 1:03 am Excellent! I agree, long lasting contrails do indicate good seeing, unfortunately they also seem to always drift right in front of the sun!


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Re: 2022 03 24 - Experimental barlow setup!

Post by JochenM »

Excellent results, Simon.


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Re: 2022 03 24 - Experimental barlow setup!

Post by Carbon60 »

A fantastic set of images, Simon. A highly successful experiment!

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Re: 2022 03 24 - Experimental barlow setup!

Post by marktownley »

Curious Simon, how do you find the ADC working in the optical train?


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Re: 2022 03 24 - Experimental barlow setup!

Post by Simon2940 »

I use it as an interference eliminator, however it does mean more surfaces with more dirt, if i moves in the slightest, the flats are useless.


marktownley wrote: Fri Mar 25, 2022 6:33 am Curious Simon, how do you find the ADC working in the optical train?


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Re: 2022 03 24 - Experimental barlow setup!

Post by TareqPhoto »

That is like 1 meter long of setup from the scope, is those all necessary? Too much, and i see results done with much less extensions back focus and same results, so i keep asking myself what is the purpose to have that much tools stacked on each other.

What made you to think about using the Powermate after the Quark and not before? Also that ADC as last piece before the camera? And what is that you used between the scope and the Quark?


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Re: 2022 03 24 - Experimental barlow setup!

Post by TareqPhoto »

And because i am new here, and people know your setup already, what scope did you use? And which Player One camera model is that?


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Re: 2022 03 24 - Experimental barlow setup!

Post by Simon2940 »

The tubes are required if you do not want to extend your focuser out, also it gives me the ability to embed the ERF further down the light path, away from the Quark.

All scopes come to focus at different points, and the higher the f/number, the longer the scope.

Also, having a 4.2x barlow built into the Quark pushes the focus back considerably when using a slower scope.

In regards to the powermate, the reason i have not done it yet is partly to do with the quark only having 1.25" holder. Since the 2 Powermates that I used are 2", I had to get an adapter as well as the t-ring. Neither of which i had, nor has anyone really tested that ive seen. You can use a regular barlow but the light cone will no longer be telecentric and will cause optical issues. The ADC is used as an interference eliminator.

Im using an EvoStar 150DX with the Apollo-MAX


TareqPhoto wrote: Fri Mar 25, 2022 10:18 pm That is like 1 meter long of setup from the scope, is those all necessary? Too much, and i see results done with much less extensions back focus and same results, so i keep asking myself what is the purpose to have that much tools stacked on each other.

What made you to think about using the Powermate after the Quark and not before? Also that ADC as last piece before the camera? And what is that you used between the scope and the Quark?


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Re: 2022 03 24 - Experimental barlow setup!

Post by TareqPhoto »

Simon2940 wrote: Sun Mar 27, 2022 3:55 am The tubes are required if you do not want to extend your focuser out, also it gives me the ability to embed the ERF further down the light path, away from the Quark.

All scopes come to focus at different points, and the higher the f/number, the longer the scope.

Also, having a 4.2x barlow built into the Quark pushes the focus back considerably when using a slower scope.

In regards to the powermate, the reason i have not done it yet is partly to do with the quark only having 1.25" holder. Since the 2 Powermates that I used are 2", I had to get an adapter as well as the t-ring. Neither of which i had, nor has anyone really tested that ive seen. You can use a regular barlow but the light cone will no longer be telecentric and will cause optical issues. The ADC is used as an interference eliminator.

Im using an EvoStar 150DX with the Apollo-MAX


TareqPhoto wrote: Fri Mar 25, 2022 10:18 pm That is like 1 meter long of setup from the scope, is those all necessary? Too much, and i see results done with much less extensions back focus and same results, so i keep asking myself what is the purpose to have that much tools stacked on each other.

What made you to think about using the Powermate after the Quark and not before? Also that ADC as last piece before the camera? And what is that you used between the scope and the Quark?
Thank you very much

It is difficult to understand this.

Ok, my version of the Quark is ZERO barlow, so it means i need to use one by myself, i do have Powermate 2x which is 2" and Powermate 5x which is 1.25" and also Tele Vue 3x which is 1.25" Barlow not telecentric, so which one to use here?

I do have ADC, should i use that as an interference eliminator as you mentioned and not buying another tool for that?

I am not sure which scope i will use, so maybe because my Quark isn't Barlowed so it means i need less extensions or tubes, and i am thinking about using a diagonal there maybe, or you think it is better to keep it straight path?


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Re: 2022 03 24 - Experimental barlow setup!

Post by Simon2940 »

You haven't said which scope you are using. If you are using what is called the Quark Combo which is the version with no barlow, on a refractor, then you already have a problem.
TareqPhoto wrote: Sun Mar 27, 2022 5:36 am
Simon2940 wrote: Sun Mar 27, 2022 3:55 am The tubes are required if you do not want to extend your focuser out, also it gives me the ability to embed the ERF further down the light path, away from the Quark.

All scopes come to focus at different points, and the higher the f/number, the longer the scope.

Also, having a 4.2x barlow built into the Quark pushes the focus back considerably when using a slower scope.

In regards to the powermate, the reason i have not done it yet is partly to do with the quark only having 1.25" holder. Since the 2 Powermates that I used are 2", I had to get an adapter as well as the t-ring. Neither of which i had, nor has anyone really tested that ive seen. You can use a regular barlow but the light cone will no longer be telecentric and will cause optical issues. The ADC is used as an interference eliminator.

Im using an EvoStar 150DX with the Apollo-MAX


TareqPhoto wrote: Fri Mar 25, 2022 10:18 pm That is like 1 meter long of setup from the scope, is those all necessary? Too much, and i see results done with much less extensions back focus and same results, so i keep asking myself what is the purpose to have that much tools stacked on each other.

What made you to think about using the Powermate after the Quark and not before? Also that ADC as last piece before the camera? And what is that you used between the scope and the Quark?
Thank you very much

It is difficult to understand this.

Ok, my version of the Quark is ZERO barlow, so it means i need to use one by myself, i do have Powermate 2x which is 2" and Powermate 5x which is 1.25" and also Tele Vue 3x which is 1.25" Barlow not telecentric, so which one to use here?

I do have ADC, should i use that as an interference eliminator as you mentioned and not buying another tool for that?

I am not sure which scope i will use, so maybe because my Quark isn't Barlowed so it means i need less extensions or tubes, and i am thinking about using a diagonal there maybe, or you think it is better to keep it straight path?


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Re: 2022 03 24 - Experimental barlow setup!

Post by TareqPhoto »

Simon2940 wrote: Sun Mar 27, 2022 6:17 pm You haven't said which scope you are using. If you are using what is called the Quark Combo which is the version with no barlow, on a refractor, then you already have a problem.
TareqPhoto wrote: Sun Mar 27, 2022 5:36 am
Simon2940 wrote: Sun Mar 27, 2022 3:55 am The tubes are required if you do not want to extend your focuser out, also it gives me the ability to embed the ERF further down the light path, away from the Quark.

All scopes come to focus at different points, and the higher the f/number, the longer the scope.

Also, having a 4.2x barlow built into the Quark pushes the focus back considerably when using a slower scope.

In regards to the powermate, the reason i have not done it yet is partly to do with the quark only having 1.25" holder. Since the 2 Powermates that I used are 2", I had to get an adapter as well as the t-ring. Neither of which i had, nor has anyone really tested that ive seen. You can use a regular barlow but the light cone will no longer be telecentric and will cause optical issues. The ADC is used as an interference eliminator.

Im using an EvoStar 150DX with the Apollo-MAX



Thank you very much

It is difficult to understand this.

Ok, my version of the Quark is ZERO barlow, so it means i need to use one by myself, i do have Powermate 2x which is 2" and Powermate 5x which is 1.25" and also Tele Vue 3x which is 1.25" Barlow not telecentric, so which one to use here?

I do have ADC, should i use that as an interference eliminator as you mentioned and not buying another tool for that?

I am not sure which scope i will use, so maybe because my Quark isn't Barlowed so it means i need less extensions or tubes, and i am thinking about using a diagonal there maybe, or you think it is better to keep it straight path?
Yes, it is the Quark Combo version, so what is the problem?

I am now using Skywatcher ST80, but the focuser has an issue when i tried to install a motor so now i am not longer going to use it, instead i will use 90mm F/6 triplet, it has a motor but not operated yet, hopefully soon, but i can't stop it down as i don't have any aperture mask thing, i do also have another refractors but i feel maybe i should now stick with 90mm, or i will try with 60 doublet.

The scope i am thinking about to buy in future for solar is something like 120mm aperture refractor, for more close ups, i am thinking about a version that is slow to give me about 1200mm focal length, so what will be my setup different than yours except the Quark version?!!!


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Re: 2022 03 24 - Experimental barlow setup!

Post by Simon2940 »

The combo is not meant for refractors at native focal ratios. They are made for SCT scopes with aperture reduction masks and ERFs.

If you read the instructions, you will find that the Quark needs to operate on at around f22

I strongly suggest you get in touch Daystar directly

TareqPhoto wrote: Sun Mar 27, 2022 7:46 pm
Simon2940 wrote: Sun Mar 27, 2022 6:17 pm You haven't said which scope you are using. If you are using what is called the Quark Combo which is the version with no barlow, on a refractor, then you already have a problem.
TareqPhoto wrote: Sun Mar 27, 2022 5:36 am

Thank you very much

It is difficult to understand this.

Ok, my version of the Quark is ZERO barlow, so it means i need to use one by myself, i do have Powermate 2x which is 2" and Powermate 5x which is 1.25" and also Tele Vue 3x which is 1.25" Barlow not telecentric, so which one to use here?

I do have ADC, should i use that as an interference eliminator as you mentioned and not buying another tool for that?

I am not sure which scope i will use, so maybe because my Quark isn't Barlowed so it means i need less extensions or tubes, and i am thinking about using a diagonal there maybe, or you think it is better to keep it straight path?
Yes, it is the Quark Combo version, so what is the problem?

I am now using Skywatcher ST80, but the focuser has an issue when i tried to install a motor so now i am not longer going to use it, instead i will use 90mm F/6 triplet, it has a motor but not operated yet, hopefully soon, but i can't stop it down as i don't have any aperture mask thing, i do also have another refractors but i feel maybe i should now stick with 90mm, or i will try with 60 doublet.

The scope i am thinking about to buy in future for solar is something like 120mm aperture refractor, for more close ups, i am thinking about a version that is slow to give me about 1200mm focal length, so what will be my setup different than yours except the Quark version?!!!


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Re: 2022 03 24 - Experimental barlow setup!

Post by TareqPhoto »

Simon2940 wrote: Mon Mar 28, 2022 8:51 pm The combo is not meant for refractors at native focal ratios. They are made for SCT scopes with aperture reduction masks and ERFs.

If you read the instructions, you will find that the Quark needs to operate on at around f22

I strongly suggest you get in touch Daystar directly

TareqPhoto wrote: Sun Mar 27, 2022 7:46 pm
Simon2940 wrote: Sun Mar 27, 2022 6:17 pm You haven't said which scope you are using. If you are using what is called the Quark Combo which is the version with no barlow, on a refractor, then you already have a problem.

Yes, it is the Quark Combo version, so what is the problem?

I am now using Skywatcher ST80, but the focuser has an issue when i tried to install a motor so now i am not longer going to use it, instead i will use 90mm F/6 triplet, it has a motor but not operated yet, hopefully soon, but i can't stop it down as i don't have any aperture mask thing, i do also have another refractors but i feel maybe i should now stick with 90mm, or i will try with 60 doublet.

The scope i am thinking about to buy in future for solar is something like 120mm aperture refractor, for more close ups, i am thinking about a version that is slow to give me about 1200mm focal length, so what will be my setup different than yours except the Quark version?!!!
From Daystar site http://www.daystarfilters.com/COMBOQuark.shtml it is mentioned as this:

"New for Summer, 2015, the Combo Quark brings quick, easy fun of the Original Quark to SCT, Maksutov and ~F/15 refractor owners"

So refractors are included as much it is F/15 or slower, now if i use a refractor say with F/5 and i added 3x Barlow, isn't this going to be a F/15 scope? Or it must be F/15 natively only?

I have a Mak 180mm with F/15 native, buying a frontal ERF is so much expensive for this size.


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Re: 2022 03 24 - Experimental barlow setup!

Post by Simon2940 »

Yes u can use a 3X Powermate to get to f/15 however your spacing will be off making your back focus extremely long meaning your going to need more extension tubes than i have.
TareqPhoto wrote: Tue Mar 29, 2022 12:13 am
Simon2940 wrote: Mon Mar 28, 2022 8:51 pm The combo is not meant for refractors at native focal ratios. They are made for SCT scopes with aperture reduction masks and ERFs.

If you read the instructions, you will find that the Quark needs to operate on at around f22

I strongly suggest you get in touch Daystar directly

TareqPhoto wrote: Sun Mar 27, 2022 7:46 pm

Yes, it is the Quark Combo version, so what is the problem?

I am now using Skywatcher ST80, but the focuser has an issue when i tried to install a motor so now i am not longer going to use it, instead i will use 90mm F/6 triplet, it has a motor but not operated yet, hopefully soon, but i can't stop it down as i don't have any aperture mask thing, i do also have another refractors but i feel maybe i should now stick with 90mm, or i will try with 60 doublet.

The scope i am thinking about to buy in future for solar is something like 120mm aperture refractor, for more close ups, i am thinking about a version that is slow to give me about 1200mm focal length, so what will be my setup different than yours except the Quark version?!!!
From Daystar site http://www.daystarfilters.com/COMBOQuark.shtml it is mentioned as this:

"New for Summer, 2015, the Combo Quark brings quick, easy fun of the Original Quark to SCT, Maksutov and ~F/15 refractor owners"

So refractors are included as much it is F/15 or slower, now if i use a refractor say with F/5 and i added 3x Barlow, isn't this going to be a F/15 scope? Or it must be F/15 natively only?

I have a Mak 180mm with F/15 native, buying a frontal ERF is so much expensive for this size.


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Re: 2022 03 24 - Experimental barlow setup!

Post by TareqPhoto »

Simon2940 wrote: Tue Mar 29, 2022 12:56 am Yes u can use a 3X Powermate to get to f/15 however your spacing will be off making your back focus extremely long meaning your going to need more extension tubes than i have.
More extensions isn't a problem, that is why i said i want to use a diagonal, also i have tube extensions, and i do have ADC if that is an alternative to interference eliminator, but i really didn't know that imaging the sun needs all that much of back focus, i used A wedge and K-Line filter and it didn't take all that much of long back focus, not sure about the Quark, i will give it a try one day.


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Re: 2022 03 24 - Experimental barlow setup!

Post by Radon86 »

Hi Tareq,
I have a Quark Chromosphere with internal 4.2x barlow.
I don't have a Quark Combo, but I am unsure if I can use a low Focal ratio refractor.
I was wondering if I can beat a Celestron C14 by using a 5x barlow with a 120mm ED refractor at F9, so I have a focal length approx 5000 mm, much better than a Celestron C14, saving me 11000 USDollars in the process !!


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TareqPhoto
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Re: 2022 03 24 - Experimental barlow setup!

Post by TareqPhoto »

Boso36 wrote: Wed Mar 30, 2022 11:51 am Hi Tareq,
I have a Quark Chromosphere with internal 4.2x barlow.
I don't have a Quark Combo, but I am unsure if I can use a low Focal ratio refractor.
I was wondering if I can beat a Celestron C14 by using a 5x barlow with a 120mm ED refractor at F9, so I have a focal length approx 5000 mm, much better than a Celestron C14, saving me 11000 USDollars in the process !!


Magnus
Magnus,

It is very funny that Daystar is making Quark combo for no use, i don't think all people buying it will use either SCT or Mak, i do have the Mak with F/15, and i have PM 2x so i can crank that up to F/30, but if i can do that with reflector i can do that with refractors, so i can buy something like F8-F11 refr and place PM 2x or even PM 5x and i am there already, so why that won't work compared to the Quark with Barlow 4.2x, i feel people don't know if they don't test and then assume the worse, i bought this combo so i can use Barlow or focal extender myself.

Tareq


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Re: 2022 03 24 - Experimental barlow setup!

Post by Montana »

Correct me if I am wrong but I understand that rear mounted etalons must have a parallel beam free of curvature entering the system. With f30 for Solarspectrum, is it f32 for a Quark? in order for the etalon to work at it's specified FWHM.

Therefore, this is why a Quark comes with a 4.2 telecentric before the Quark to achieve this. A telecentric is needed as powermates and barlows cause curvature of the light beam.

If you were to use a powermate or barlow it would have to come before the Quark not after it to achieve the correct f number entering it.

In cases like my C11 which is already at f10, I would get f42 if I used the standard Quark which would be too much. So they sell the Quark combo so I could choose to add a TZ3 before the Quark and get f30 instead.

I've lost the plot in this thread so I hope I haven't said what has already been said :)

Alexandra


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